Political Discussion in Daily Texan

[Macklemore 2827]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

You are so stupid it's actually incredible. 

Why don’t you change the CR rep system to get what you want - politics discussed in the CR. Wulaw Horn and I have stated why it has become an echo chamber yet you have show no interest in changing the reason why it has become a cesspool. Tell me again who is the stupid one. 

[DDD Dad 14060]

The “decades” I assume you are referring to are the 80s and maybe through the tail end of the GHWB’s only term. So basically, he last time he MIGHT HAVE voted Republican was almost 30 years ago. My memory doesn’t stretch far enough back to remember if he had an opinion for or against Clinton’s impeachment but I can fairly assume that he was against it by his posting history. You’re correct that he would not have a home in the coalition of social conservatives, Trumpists and nationalists comprising today’s GOP. 

L O L

[JimmyJames 12267]

50 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I do love the myth that the CR denizens were all card carrying Republicans until Trump and the move to this site. Trump’s election and the move to surly was the liminal moment where erstwhile “conservatives” were transformed creating the CR communitas the rest of the board loathes. 

I was a Republican until I finally figured out the Iraq war was a scam and W and the republicans trashed the economy in 2008. I’m not proud I was such a naive idiot before but I’m glad I’m not a mouthbreathing moron who still supports that pile of shit party like you. At least it makes it easy to figure out who the morons in this country are. 

[JimmyJames 12267]

54 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Tell me again who is the stupid one. 

You are.

[Macklemore 2827]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I was a Republican until I finally figured out the Iraq war was a scam and W and the republicans trashed the economy in 2008. I’m not proud I was such a naive idiot before but I’m glad I’m not a mouthbreathing moron who still supports that pile of shit party like you. At least it makes it easy to figure out who the morons in this country are. 

The GOP is in flux and like it or not is the only real alternative to what the Dems are offering. Much easier to shape into the party into what I and others like me would like it to become then build a new party from scratch. Very happy that the Bill Kristol’s and other neocon warmongers of his ilk no longer have a home in the GOP. Further purges are needed. The Trump sycophancy will wane after a couple of election cycles. What comes after it is what we in the party are fighting for. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Macklemore

[aggie08 20212]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Further purges are needed. The Trump sycophancy will wane after a couple of election cycles.

What evidence do you have of that other than blind faith? Because, right now, their objective to jettison anyone in the party who doesn't kiss the ring is quite clear.

[Macklemore 2827]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

What evidence do you have of that other than blind faith? Because, right now, their objective to jettison anyone in the party who doesn't kiss the ring is quite clear.

I guess it’s more of a hope and a reasonable course to expect considering Trump’s age, the passage of time and Trump no longer having the bully pulpit of Twitter and the office of the Presidency. Also factor in ambitious, younger politicians like DeSantis, Noem and Cotton not sitting idly by. Kissing the ring to get burnish their own credentials for their own runs is the motivation.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Macklemore

[immamac 41339]

Shut the fuck up you God damned moron. 

[Incredulity 11141]

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

Shut the fuck up you God damned moron. 

Perfect example of what he is talking about.  Well done.

[Guest Lobo]

Well, I don't know this Macklemore fellow...but he sounds quite astute.  

I've heard a lot of reasons for why CR went more "Left" in the last few years, but I didn't realize it was because the old site went away.  Having to type in a slightly different domain name didn't really tilt my politics.  What political posts I did make in 2017 were mainly insulting Hillary Clinton.  A hobby I still enjoy to this day.  I was pretty vocal on state/statewide politics in 2018 on here, mainly shitting on Bobby O'Rourke.  Trump was always a baffoon to me, never voted for him, always wanted him to go away.  But it was the 2018 mid-terms/seating of new Congress Jan. 2019...that's when I realized we couldn't really post around here the way we used to.  Political dialogue...even among educated, connected citizens...as I knew it...was at its end.  I'll be lucky if it coms back in my lifetime. 

The fact that nobody even bothers to defend 80% of the man's presidency is pretty telling.  Nobody wants to actually defend Trump or his administration, they want to just bask in the idea of Trump.  You can't have discourse around that.  It's like trying to talk somebody out of love or their childhood sports team...no amount of reason or mirror-holding can change it.  The heart wants what the heart wants.  The funny thing to me, at least with regard to this site, is the people on here in Trump's corner.  They know better.  They know they're not the dumb flag-waving boat-scuttlers on Lake Travis.  They know they're better than most of their own base.  That's the baffling thing to me, to purposely lower yourself in service to someone not named Jesus.  I knew it was possible, just never at such scale...

[aggie08 20212]

24 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I guess it’s more of a hope and a reasonable course to expect considering Trump’s age, the passage of time and Trump no longer having the bully pulpit of Twitter and the office of the Presidency. Also factor in ambitious, younger politicians like DeSantis, Noem and Cotton not sitting idly by. Kissing the ring to get burnish their own credentials for their own runs is the motivation.

So, just to make sure that I'm understanding this correctly: your hope for the future of the party are those currently willing to lie through their teeth for one man and push dangerous conspiracy theories to preen for the MAGA base, all in the name of power. Then, once elected to higher offices, they'll immediately drop the rhetoric and become principled, rational representatives of democracy?

Edited June 6, 2021 by aggie08

[Macklemore 2827]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

So, just to make sure that I'm understanding this correctly: your hope for the future of the party are those currently willing to lie through their teeth for one man and push dangerous conspiracy theories to preen for the MAGA base, all in the name of power. Then, once elected to higher offices, they'll immediately drop the rhetoric and become principled, rational representatives of democracy?

There is a better chance of that happening than a viable 3rd party replacement for the GOP ever coming to fruition. For those of us who are not Democrats, the choice is either to have no voice politically at all or to use what is available.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Macklemore

[Macklemore 2827]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Shut the fuck up you God damned moron. 

Why am I moron? If you want full participation of BOTH SIDES of the aisles in the CR, the path is quite clear on what needs to be done. Fixing the rep situation in CR is the 1st step to fix the cesspool. You don’t want things to change. That’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when those of us on the right want to chime in on news topics and do it in a more reasonable forum - DT.

[SmokeyTheBear 5551]

I'm here to state that I never was a Republican and damn proud of it at this point. 

 

*with kudos to those who were and saw the light

Edited June 7, 2021 by SmokeyTheBear

[aggie08 20212]

7 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

There is a better chance of that happening than a viable 3rd party replacement for the GOP ever coming to fruition. For those of us who are not Democrats, the choice is either to have no voice politically at all or to use what is available.

Far be it for me to tell you how to cast your vote, but it seems like a far better option would be to punish those who embraced a reckless, democracy-threatening cult in the name of personal gain at all costs by voting for the other guys for a cycle or two, even if it means 4 or 6 years of dreadful Democratic rule. Maybe then they'd get the message that Trumpism is no longer a path to victory, and actually find some candidates worth a shit.

[fattyflattie 4631]

17 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I'm here to state that I never was a Republican and damn proud of it at this point. 

 

*with kudos to those who were and saw the light

Damn I think there is like 3 of y’all.  Trying to figure out how the pubs have been bad for the world forever but we have so many posters who have just recently converted to D.  Makes you ponder. 

[fattyflattie 4631]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

but it seems like a far better option would be to punish those who embraced a reckless, democracy-threatening cult in the name of personal gain at all costs by voting for the other guys for a cycle or two, even if it means 4 or 6 years of dreadful Democratic rule.

For someone on the opposite of the aisle, this is akin to living how the left did during Trump.  Remember the whole not recognizing or even wanting to live here anymore?  The "how do I explain this election to my kids" thread?  "Fuck this country and these idiots, I'm going to go live on a ledge".   That's how D's make a large portion of the other side feel.  Put the shoe on the other foot (I don't know where on the R CR C CL L spectrum you fall) but if Dems put some folks you don't agree with up for election, you are good with running full R for 4-6 years to teach them a lesson?  I highly doubt that.   And I know, ALL D's are good so this is never an issue. 

[Incredulity 11141]

27 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I'm here to state that I never was a Republican and damn proud of it at this point. 

 

*with kudos to those who were and saw the light

[aggie08 20212]

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Put the shoe on the other foot (I don't know where on the R CR C CL L spectrum you fall) but if Dems put some folks you don't agree with up for election, you are good with running full R for 4-6 years to teach them a lesson?  I highly doubt that. 

Yes. When Democrats put out shit candidates, I don't fucking vote for them just because there's a (D) next to their name. Up until recently--with the GOP diving head first into the cult--I've always thought that straight ticket voting was fucking moronic.

Edited June 7, 2021 by aggie08

[Guest Lobo]

13 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Damn I think there is like 3 of y’all.  Trying to figure out how the pubs have been bad for the world forever but we have so many posters who have just recently converted to D.  Makes you ponder. 

There's a woeful undercount of how many of us didn't convert to Democrat.  I don't think I can ever formally join the Democratic Party.  I have voted for a few D's in every general election of my adult life, but it's a distant third after Libertarian and Republican for number of ballot boxes checked every two years for the last 26 years.  

What turned me off of Trump and his supporters, is that every negative stereotype about Democratic voters i've heard and helped broadcast for the last quarter century-------lazy, stupid, ignorant, ill-informed, etc.  Not only was that Trump supporters in a nut-shell...they couldn't be more proud of it.  

[fattyflattie 4631]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Yes. When Democrats put out shit candidates, I don't fucking vote for them just because there's a (D) next to their name. Up until recently--with the GOP diving head first into the cult--I've always thought that straight ticket voting was fucking moronic.

But that’s not what you implied.  Would you go against “your” party, giving them “rule” for 4-6 years?   I didn’t read that as being a normal voter and scattershotting a ballot.  Would you straight ticket against your own good to send a message? 

[fattyflattie 4631]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

There's a woeful undercount of how many of us didn't convert to Democrat.  I don't think I can ever formally join the Democratic Party.  I have voted for a few D's in every general election of my adult life, but it's a distant third after Libertarian and Republican for number of ballot boxes checked every two years for the last 26 years.  

What turned me off of Trump and his supporters, is that every negative stereotype about Democratic voters i've heard and helped broadcast for the last quarter century-------lazy, stupid, ignorant, ill-informed, etc.  Not only was that Trump supporters in a nut-shell...they couldn't be more proud of it.  

Well yeah. The choices were...what’s the saying about the simulation we are in? Oh yeah. Stupidest timeline. 

[immamac 41339]

47 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Why am I moron? If you want full participation of BOTH SIDES of the aisles in the CR, the path is quite clear on what needs to be done. Fixing the rep situation in CR is the 1st step to fix the cesspool. You don’t want things to change. That’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when those of us on the right want to chime in on news topics and do it in a more reasonable forum - DT.

Changing rep in CR isn't going to fix broken brain fucktards like you saying the most braindead shit I've read on the internet. You are sitting here arguing with posters who know eachother in real life over what their political beliefs are to fit your stupid straw man argument which is stupid.

Here's a thing, stop caring about stupid fucking internet points that don't mean anything or point to me a single time someone got negged off the board for "their political views" - seriously I'm waiting to see how this "rep" is causing people to be fucking idiots.

[aggie08 20212]

10 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

But that’s not what you implied.  Would you go against “your” party, giving them “rule” for 4-6 years?   I didn’t read that as being a normal voter and scattershotting a ballot.  Would you straight ticket against your own good to send a message? 

If I defined myself as a Republican, and the candidates were of the ilk of Cruz, Paul, and Gohmert, you're damn right I would. Whatever minor gain that I thought voting for them would impart onto me personally over the alternative would absolutely not be worth 4+ more years of alternative facts, fake outrage, playing the victim, promoting conspiracies, and pledging undying fealty to a reality star troll.

Edited June 7, 2021 by aggie08

[fattyflattie 4631]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

If I defined myself as a Republican, and the candidates were of the ilk of Cruz, Paul, and Gohmert, you're damn right I would. Whatever minor gain that I thought voting for them would impart onto me personally over the alternative would absolutely not be worth 4+ more years of alternative facts, fake outrage, playing the victim, promoting conspiracies, and pledging undying fealty to a reality star troll.

Cool.  You are a D, and I expect you to feel that way.  

[aggie08 20212]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Cool.  You are a D, and I expect you to feel that way.  

Not even close, but keep trying.

On 5/28/2021 at 9:14 PM, aggie08 said:

Before November 4th, I had a combined zero posts in shaggy or surly's Cloak Rooms. Discussing politics is just not my jam. But November 5th hit me a lot harder than I expected, with so many otherwise intelligent people that I respect believing every word from the dude who told us exactly what he would do if he lost for over a year. A dude with a very loose grasp on truth and reality as is. It was the damnedest thing I've ever seen, and I needed somewhere to vent.

Honestly, since I never visited, I assumed that CR was still heavily slanted towards Republicans, so it was actually a (nice) surprise that it had done a complete 180 with one "side" self-immolating. Before 2016, my voting record was probably closer to Johnny Sack's than it was bad_teammate's, but, like others have mentioned, the only viable alternative to what has very clearly become a cult are the bleeding heart, sanctimonious assholes on the other side.

 

[fattyflattie 4631]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Not even close, but keep trying.

 

Cool.  I don't really care either way.  You currently view one side one way, and others see it another way.  America.

[Celery Man 20535]

9 hours ago, Macklemore said:

What you are not addressing is the participation, threads and posts by conservatives/right wingers that are not occurring because of the toxic nature of the CR where anyone espousing a right wing view is deemed a troll and where posters like @GW Hayduke @Felix @wildcat09 and formerly @UpperWestside (to his credit I don’t see him doing it anymore) neg bomb guys like @Johnny Sack on non-CR threads. I come here for sports discussion. I WOULD PARTICIPATE in the CR but for asshats like I described above. I have no problem defending my viewpoints. Those guys will dock you double digit negs in which puts you in a precarious position. For those of us who want to stick around and post during football season, the trade off of posting in the current form of the CR is not worth it.

you’re starting to convince me that open carry might dissuade would be gunmen

[aggie08 20212]

22 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Cool.  I don't really care either way.  You currently view one side one way, and others see it another way.  America.

The way that others see it includes pushing a very obvious and pathetic lie that an election was stolen--that not a single one of them in power actually believes (well, maybe the big guy himself)--to pass as many election laws and loopholes as possible to make the next time that the votes don't go their way easier to overturn. Even if I disagree with a decent amount of their agenda, one side still gives a shit about democracy and living in reality; the other, not as much.

Please, answer me this:

If the GOP has control of the House and Senate in 2024, and a Democrat wins the electoral college in a relatively close race, what do you think happens next?  If your answer is anything other than "a completely normal, peaceful certification and inauguration" think about what that says about who you're supporting. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by aggie08

[hobbes2702 12481]

58 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Damn I think there is like 3 of y’all.  Trying to figure out how the pubs have been bad for the world forever but we have so many posters who have just recently converted to D.  Makes you ponder. 

Yea it’s almost like adults with critical thinking skills can evaluate evidence and change opinions based on it. You maybe should ponder more. Or less

[fattyflattie 4631]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea it’s almost like adults with critical thinking skills can evaluate evidence and change opinions based on it. You maybe should ponder more. Or less

I'm just surprised yall were content for so long with all the evil the GOP has caused POC, women's rights, social programs, for decades.  Guess you were either OK with it, or not as informed as you fancy yourselves.  Or that is a bunch of bullshit.  But it's definitely something you should ask yourself. 

[Macklemore 2827]

34 minutes ago, immamac said:

Changing rep in CR isn't going to fix broken brain fucktards like you saying the most braindead shit I've read on the internet. You are sitting here arguing with posters who know eachother in real life over what their political beliefs are to fit your stupid straw man argument which is stupid.

Here's a thing, stop caring about stupid fucking internet points that don't mean anything or point to me a single time someone got negged off the board for "their political views" - seriously I'm waiting to see how this "rep" is causing people to be fucking idiots.

You’re completely overlooking what the participation could be and you’re not getting currently in the CR. You’re “stop caring about stupid fucking internet points” is complete bullshit when you know that there are members like the ones I called out earlier who will neg bomb as much as they can which DIRECTLY impacts whether I can continue to post by risking getting crowdsourced for unpopular posts. Your attitude gives you away - we are either racists or some other type of reprobate in your eyes. The whole “we USED to be Republicans” bit is a sly and effective means to either try to shame and silence conservatives forever or get someone like me to acquiesce to the Democratic agenda. Guess what I VOTED FOR BIDEN even though I knew I’d dislike his entire agenda which has proven correct. I did so because Trump is repellent to me morally. The GOP like any political party is a fucking tool to wield power. That’s it. Me shunning it and having no voice in how I’d like the county run would be music to the ears for the likes of you but isn’t reality and neither is it to vote against my world view to teach the party a “lesson” forever.

[hobbes2702 12481]

7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I'm just surprised yall were content for so long with all the evil the GOP has caused POC, women's rights, social programs, for decades.  Guess you were either OK with it, or not as informed as you fancy yourselves.  Or that is a bunch of bullshit.  But it's definitely something you should ask yourself. 

Yea that’s my point. People like me grew up and realized they needed to be more informed. You’re basically just telling us all that you choose to be an ignoramus.

[aggie08 20212]

18 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Me shunning it and having no voice in how I’d like the county run would be music to the ears for the likes of you but isn’t reality and neither is it to vote against my world view to teach the party a “lesson” forever.

While I completely understand this sentiment, you've already said that there's no real evidence that the party will move away from Trumpism. Just that you assume it will with Trump less and less in the spotlight. So far, everything from November 5th until today has gone in exactly the opposite direction. I hope that you're ultimately right, but the only thing that politicians understand is losing their seats. If there's enough MAGA + "no way I'm voting Democrat no matter what" votes to make candidates with little else to offer but pledging their loyalty viable, then Trumpism isn't going anywhere.

I'll ask you the same question that I asked earlier that fattie conveniently ignored:

If the GOP has control of the House and Senate in 2024, and a Democrat wins the electoral college on Election Day in a relatively close race, what do you think happens next?

Edited June 7, 2021 by aggie08

[fattyflattie 4631]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'll ask you the same question that I asked earlier that fattie conveniently ignored:

I didn't ignore, I felt we had toed the line enough before this thread gets flagged 100x by the folks who get off on flagging threads.  

To answer your question, I think it would a 100% peaceful transfer of power.  All Jan 6 showed me was that people that feel disenfranchised and cheated (historically POC) will fight to be heard. This time it was just a bunch of idiotic white males (mostly).

[JimmyJames 12267]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Cool.  You are a D, and I expect you to feel that way.  

Now you’re just being an ass.

[Macklemore 2827]

The Democratic candidate will be sworn in January 20th. I have enough faith in the judiciary, military and the others sworn to defend the Constitution to live up to their oaths. We are not Turkey or China for God’s sakes.

[fattyflattie 4631]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Now you’re just being an ass.

Care to expand?  

[JimmyJames 12267]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

 

To answer your question, I think it would a 100% peaceful transfer of power.  All Jan 6 showed me was that people that feel disenfranchised and cheated (historically POC) will fight to be heard. This time it was just a bunch of idiotic white males (mostly).

Fuck off nazi sympathizer. 

[JimmyJames 12267]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Care to expand?  

No. Not really.

[JimmyJames 12267]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The Democratic candidate will be sworn in January 20th. I have enough faith in the judiciary, military and the others sworn to defend the Constitution to live up to their oaths. We are not Turkey or China for God’s sakes.

Yeah tell that to trump and his legion of morons. 

[fattyflattie 4631]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Fuck off nazi sympathizer. 

I slow this down because you seem brain damaged.  Suck. My. Cock. 

[aggie08 20212]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I didn't ignore, I felt we had toed the line enough before this thread gets flagged 100x by the folks who get off on flagging threads.  

To answer your question, I think it would a 100% peaceful transfer of power.  All Jan 6 showed me was that people that feel disenfranchised and cheated (historically POC) will fight to be heard. This time it was just a bunch of idiotic white males (mostly).

You have much more faith after what has transpired these past 7 months than I do. I sincerely hope that you are correct.

[fattyflattie 4631]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

No. Not really.

I wouldn't want to engage if I was working with your tool kit, either. 

[JimmyJames 12267]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I slow this down because you seem brain damaged.  Suck. My. Cock. 

No you’re a fucking nazi. Worship your false idol trump and try to ruin the country if you want, we won’t let you. 

[fattyflattie 4631]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

No you’re a fucking nazi. Worship your false idol trump and try to ruin the country if you want, we won’t let you. 

I don't gaf about Trump.  He set the GOP back 25 years.  Because of that pile of shit, the US will be unrecognizable in 15 years.  Fuck him. 

[aggie08 20212]

8 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The Democratic candidate will be sworn in January 20th. I have enough faith in the judiciary, military and the others sworn to defend the Constitution to live up to their oaths. We are not Turkey or China for God’s sakes.

Oh, I'm sure that we'll eventually get there by Jan 20. Probably. After a few hundred bullshit hearings, lawsuits, and recounts. Then they'll go back to their state governments and try to tweak what still didn't work to get them closer to being able to overturn the vote the next time around. Rinse and repeat.

Edited June 7, 2021 by aggie08

[JimmyJames 12267]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I don't gaf about Trump.  He set the GOP back 25 years.  Because of that pile of shit, the US will be unrecognizable in 15 years.  Fuck him. 

Uh huh. Who did you vote for in 2020? Mary poppins? The Easter bunny?

[fattyflattie 4631]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Uh huh. Who did you vote for in 2020? Mary poppins? The Easter bunny?

I actually didn't, I was out of state from Sept thru late Nov.  I don't know if I would have voted for Trump had I been home, I was sick of *his shit for a few years.  I know I would not have voted for Biden. 

I've held that view of Trump for several years; it's scattered throughout my posts in DT and CR.  He was fucking terrible for the party, and ANYONE who ran against HRC could have beaten her.  Why run someone who's going to take shit to 11 and piss everyone off, burning the whole fucking thing down on the way out?  Was fucking stupid of the GOP, and they are now paying for it.  My vote goes to whichever party as a whole is closest to the dead center. I hope that doesn't make me a Libertarian.  Also, would vote for Mary Poppins '24.

[atomheartbevo 88751]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Then, once elected to higher offices, they'll immediately drop the rhetoric and become principled, rational representatives of democracy?

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

There is a better chance of that happening than a viable 3rd party replacement for the GOP ever coming to fruition. 

Plenty of abused or cheated-on housewives tell themselves that things will eventually change and that they just need to stick it out, but the reality is that as long as that housewife does nothing, then nothing will change because the shitty behavior is being rewarded.

I really don't think you realize how many of us here on Surly that you consider to be a part of the "liberal cabal" or whatever somebody called it, are former Republicans who got tired of waiting for shit to change.  

From what I recall, most majors, including science and engineering, had to take some kind of philosophy or other such class that got into rational thinking, but it feels like people forgot those classes.  

Edited June 7, 2021 by atomheartbevo