Alamo Bowl: Oregon vs. Oklahoma

[quigley 1143]

4 hours ago, Constant said:

Riley should be fired from USC based on his underutilization of Mims at OU. 

Only 2-3 targets last night though. He's been non-committal about portal plans. I think he's gone.

[Constant 6524]

3 minutes ago, quigley said:

Only 2-3 targets last night though. He's been non-committal about portal plans. I think he's gone.

Skip to 5:08. Sounds like a guy who wants to stay, but I guess you never really know anymore. 

['stache 21489]

The anger is somewhat justified because he announced the day after their loss. Reminds me of Brad Underwood for OSU basketball who took another job the morning after losing our late night game in the NCAA tournament. That is fucking shitty, especially when they say "it just came together so quickly." Fuck you, it was planned for some time, why lie about it when you've already left? 

Either way, OU fans are a bunch of fucking whining pieces of shit, so I love seeing it happen to them and to see them cry about it incessantly. Venables is going to be a bust. They fucking hated him on his way out of Norman as the DC, and now he's their savior? Lol. They will be second class in the sec. Even if they are better than that, I don't have to care anymore. Fuck them, forever.

Edited December 30, 2021 by 'stache

[quigley 1143]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

All I know is, watching OU fans try to pretzel themselves into telling us their 84% winning coach with 4 Big 12 titless 4 playoff appearances, 2 Heisman winners and 5 first round NFL picks in 5 years being overrated is very entertaining with all their made up fan fiction in their head.

This offseason is especially the silliest it's ever been. 

You didn't read me saying he's overrated. All of the following are true:

Riley's an excellent offensive coach. You mentioned several of his achievements. He transformed OU's recruiting.
Riley's offense this year grossly underachieved.
Riley had met his ceiling at OU.
 - ESPN stat:
   Since Riley's arrival at OU, the Sooners have lost all of their playoff games (0-4) by 20, 6 (OT), 11 (not that close), and 35 points.
   OU's won all of their non-playoff bowls (Sugar by 16, Cotton by 35, Alamo by 15).
 - His inability to punish soft zone defenses was incredibly frustrating. Neither Rattler nor Williams had tight timing and placement needed to beat these defenses.
 - His best defense at OU was during the Covid season, and the performance of that defense was inflated because they really didn't one excellent offense.
 - The OL regressed since 2017. That's the year Schmidt left for A&M. We're going to learn if this is correlation or causation.

Venables was a good (maybe not great) hire at OU.
Venables could improve OU overall as team even with some regression in the offense.
This is because even his WORST defenses at OU were better than any Grinch defenses at OU.

This is why OU fans are excited.

[TexArcher 36902]

9 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Either way, OU fans are a bunch of fucking whining pieces of shit, so I love seeing it happen to them and to see them cry about it incessantly. Venables is going to be a bust. They fucking hated him on his way out of Norman as the DC, and now he's their savior? Lol. They will be second class in the sec. Even if they are better than that, I don't have to care anymore. Fuck them, forever.

Fuck 'em all.

[quigley 1143]

8 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The anger is somewhat justified because he announced the day after their loss. Reminds me of Brad Underwood for OSU basketball who took another job the morning after losing our late night game in the NCAA tournament. That is fucking shitty, especially when they say "it just came together so quickly." Fuck you, it was planned for some time, why lie about it when you've already left? 

Either way, OU fans are a bunch of fucking whining pieces of shit, so I love seeing it happen to them and to see them cry about it incessantly. Venables is going to be a bust. They fucking hated him on his way out of Norman as the DC, and now he's their savior? Lol. They will be second class in the sec. Even if they are better than that, I don't have to care anymore. Fuck them, forever.

Speaking only for myself, I understand Riley leaving. The SC job is desirable. The "just came together" lie is frustrating because he's obviously lying to us. Why?

I understand that fans of other teams dehumanize rival fans and I did so myself in the past. It doesn't hurt me, but the coarsening of discourse is not productive to our society. Consider cutting back on it.

I didn't want Venables gone the first time. Advanced stats recognized his defenses were still good despite his DL coach doing no recruiting or coaching. I open-minded about the potential for a Venables-OU. His early hires haven't been the best, but fandom is about ups and downs.

[Aqua Buddha 13897]

2 minutes ago, quigley said:

You didn't read me saying he's overrated. All of the following are true:

Riley's an excellent offensive coach. You mentioned several of his achievements. He transformed OU's recruiting.
Riley's offense this year grossly underachieved.
Riley had met his ceiling at OU.
 - ESPN stat:
   Since Riley's arrival at OU, the Sooners have lost all of their playoff games (0-4) by 20, 6 (OT), 11 (not that close), and 35 points.
   OU's won all of their non-playoff bowls (Sugar by 16, Cotton by 35, Alamo by 15).
 - His inability to punish soft zone defenses was incredibly frustrating. Neither Rattler nor Williams had tight timing and placement needed to beat these defenses.
 - His best defense at OU was during the Covid season, and the performance of that defense was inflated because they really didn't one excellent offense.
 - The OL regressed since 2017. That's the year Schmidt left for A&M. We're going to learn if this is correlation or causation.

Venables was a good (maybe not great) hire at OU.
Venables could improve OU overall as team even with some regression in the offense.
This is because even his WORST defenses at OU were better than any Grinch defenses at OU.

This is why OU fans are excited.

That's accurate.  LR's teams regressed every year when it came to strength and conditioning, which is why the running game kept getting worse.  They would get thrown around like a rag doll in the SEC.  He would also fall in love with passing plays, but that's common with a lot of OC's.  

[quigley 1143]

26 minutes ago, Constant said:

Skip to 5:08. Sounds like a guy who wants to stay, but I guess you never really know anymore. 

Yeah, he keeps saying "i'd like to stay" instead of just saying I'M STAYING.

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

28 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The anger is somewhat justified because he announced the day after their loss. Reminds me of Brad Underwood for OSU basketball who took another job the morning after losing our late night game in the NCAA tournament. That is fucking shitty, especially when they say "it just came together so quickly." Fuck you, it was planned for some time, why lie about it when you've already left? 

Either way, OU fans are a bunch of fucking whining pieces of shit, so I love seeing it happen to them and to see them cry about it incessantly. Venables is going to be a bust. They fucking hated him on his way out of Norman as the DC, and now he's their savior? Lol. They will be second class in the sec. Even if they are better than that, I don't have to care anymore. Fuck them, forever.

Damn.  You don’t sound butthurt at all.  Lol

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

20 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Fuck 'em all.

Except me.  You love me.  Don’t lie.  

[Constant 6524]

10 minutes ago, quigley said:

Yeah, he keeps saying "i'd like to stay" instead of just saying I'M STAYING.

With the addition of NIL, they all speak like sports agents. It is pretty frustrating. 

['stache 21489]

17 minutes ago, quigley said:

Speaking only for myself, I understand Riley leaving. The SC job is desirable. The "just came together" lie is frustrating because he's obviously lying to us. Why?

I understand that fans of other teams dehumanize rival fans and I did so myself in the past. It doesn't hurt me, but the coarsening of discourse is not productive to our society. Consider cutting back on it.

I didn't want Venables gone the first time. Advanced stats recognized his defenses were still good despite his DL coach doing no recruiting or coaching. I open-minded about the potential for a Venables-OU. His early hires haven't been the best, but fandom is about ups and downs.

This is surly, sir, I can be as vindictive against ou as I want to be. It's hyperbolic, I associate with plenty of sooners in my daily life without issue. It's not aggy. 

4 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Damn.  You don’t sound butthurt at all.  Lol

I'm not butthurt, lol. It's a sports rivalry on a board full of assholes. Whateva, I do what I want!

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This is surly, sir, I can be as vindictive against ou as I want to be. It's hyperbolic, I associate with plenty of sooners in my daily life without issue. It's not aggy. 

I'm not butthurt, lol. It's a sports rivalry on a board full of assholes. Whateva, I do what I want!

True!  And God bless this place.  There’s actually a little objectivity around here unlike 99% of sports forums.  Carry on.   

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

25 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

That's accurate.  LR's teams regressed every year when it came to strength and conditioning, which is why the running game kept getting worse.  They would get thrown around like a rag doll in the SEC.  He would also fall in love with passing plays, but that's common with a lot of OC's.  

Yep.  I really can’t believe fans here think OU fans didn’t bitch about all these issues.  Go look.  They hated how soft his teams were getting.  He also had zero killer instinct.  See the playoff game OU was rolling Georgia.  That doesn’t mean you can’t be pissed about how he left.  Total pussy.  

[TexArcher 36902]

17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Except me.  You love me.  Don’t lie.  

I tolerate you and don't wish horrible things for you.  Best I can do.

[Constant 6524]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yep.  I really can’t believe fans here think OU fans didn’t bitch about all these issues.  Go look.  They hated how soft his teams were getting.  He also had zero killer instinct.  See the playoff game OU was rolling Georgia.  That doesn’t mean you can’t be pissed about how he left.  Total pussy.  

His problems are USC’s problems now. He’ll have some success but that dry rot is still there. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 11608]

6 minutes ago, Constant said:

His problems are USC’s problems now. He’ll have some success but that dry rot is still there. 

He'll recruit well, but if he's scared of the SEC no matter how well he recruits he's getting his shit pushed in just like when he took ou to the playoffs. Change of scenery isn't going to change his flaws. He's a pussy

[Aqua Buddha 13897]

12 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yep.  I really can’t believe fans here think OU fans didn’t bitch about all these issues.  Go look.  They hated how soft his teams were getting.  He also had zero killer instinct.  See the playoff game OU was rolling Georgia.  That doesn’t mean you can’t be pissed about how he left.  Total pussy.  

Yeah, I know dozens of OU fans and while they didn't hate Riley the last year, they sure bitched about him a lot.  They were the most mad after the Kansas game, rather than the two losses.

[Constant 6524]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, I know dozens of OU fans and while they didn't hate Riley the last year, they sure bitched about him a lot.  They were the most mad after the Kansas game, rather than the two losses.

We should have lost to Kansas. That was a freak outcome to win. We also could have easily lost to Tulane, Nebraska, West Virginia, Kansas State, Texas, Iowa State. All of those were one score games that we played poorly in. 
 

When you stop and think about it and compare it to the expectation for this season with this roster… its bad. 

[Bevo14 8196]

10 minutes ago, Constant said:

We should have lost to Kansas. That was a freak outcome to win. We also could have easily lost to Tulane, Nebraska, West Virginia, Kansas State, Texas, Iowa State. All of those were one score games that we played poorly in. 
 

When you stop and think about it and compare it to the expectation for this season with this roster… its bad. 

I have to agree with the methheads. Riley was overrated. That said, you could do worse and I hope you did do worse.

[Constant 6524]

12 minutes ago, Bevo14 said:

I have to agree with the methheads. Riley was overrated. That said, you could do worse and I hope you did do worse.

Well just like watching Texas football, you’re probably gonna be disappointed. 

[Huckleberry 32140]

2 minutes ago, Constant said:

Well just like watching Texas football, you’re probably gonna be disappointed. 

Didn't you just say the goal is a national championship? Seems you're on a longer run of disappointment than Texas fans if that's the case. 

[Constant 6524]

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Didn't you just say the goal is a national championship? Seems you're on a longer run of disappointment than Texas fans if that's the case. 

Longer, but not quite as deep. 

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

16 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Didn't you just say the goal is a national championship? Seems you're on a longer run of disappointment than Texas fans if that's the case. 

Agree, and I am.  But there’s levels to this shit.  There’s man I’m really disappointed we got buttfucked in the playoffs - again.  Then there’s WTF JUST HAPPENED WE LOST TO KU AT HOME?!?? disappointed. 

[Huckleberry 32140]

If the team is shitty then they're shitty.

I guess the relevance to this thread is that Oklahoma fans acting like Riley didn't accomplish anything are saying that Stoops didn't accomplish anything the last 16 seasons he was there. Either Riley accomplished a lot or Stoops sucked his last 16 seasons. Can't have it both ways. 

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If the team is shitty then they're shitty.

I guess the relevance to this thread is that Oklahoma fans acting like Riley didn't accomplish anything are saying that Stoops didn't accomplish anything the last 16 seasons he was there. Either Riley accomplished a lot or Stoops sucked his last 16 seasons. Can't have it both ways. 

Lots of people wanted Stoops out too. I can post a dozen articles about how he’s more loved now because of what he did for the program in these times vs his last several years at OU.  But there were a million fuck Bob and Mike Stoops posts.  Fans are gonna be fans.  Shocking stuff.  

[ztejas 42744]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If the team is shitty then they're shitty.

I guess the relevance to this thread is that Oklahoma fans acting like Riley didn't accomplish anything are saying that Stoops didn't accomplish anything the last 16 seasons he was there. Either Riley accomplished a lot or Stoops sucked his last 16 seasons. Can't have it both ways. 

They were at least close. Have to get there to win it. And they got there 3 times after Stoops won his 1 (granted one of those was an ass-blasting) and probably should have in 2017. 

But now they have a total unknown coming in with the hope that he pushes them over the top. Maybe Brent's the answer but I think it's just as likely they remember what it's like to lose 4 or 5 games in a season these next couple years. 

[Huckleberry 32140]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

They were at least close. Have to get there to win it. And they got there 3 times after Stoops won his 1 (granted one of those was an ass-blasting) and probably should have in 2017. 

But now they have a total unknown coming in with the hope that he pushes them over the top. Maybe Brent's the answer but I think it's just as likely they remember what it's like to lose 4 or 5 games in a season these next couple years. 

I'm not saying they didn't accomplish anything. I'm pointing out that's what they're saying. 

[ouflak 60]

1 hour ago, Bevo14 said:

 Riley was overrated.

Again, I don't think he was overrated. I think it really is a pure case of seeing exactly what you're getting and what you're going to get. USC teams should do well, win a lot of close, eventually very uncomfortably close, games. He'll rope in some players with some nice Hollywood style NIL deals. Rope in a few others since he is indeed a pretty good offensive recruiter. Time will go by, and the Trojan fans will also get to experience the pain of a mystifying loss to a team that had no business being in the game at all (and where USC perhaps even had a sizable lead at some point early on). And as soon as his team(s) faces a group of guys with the kind of intensity it takes to win a playoff game, that will be the crushing end to their season. His teams have been good in bowl games outside of the playoffs. *shrug* Except for the worst kind of luck, that should continue to be the case.

Quote

...Oklahoma fans acting like Riley didn't accomplish anything...

I haven't seen any fans saying that, and that would be patently false. We got the best that he could give, which I think is fair to say after 7 years of seeing what that is. His ceiling is high. It's just got its obvious limits. USC will soon learn about this.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by ouflak

[quigley 1143]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If the team is shitty then they're shitty.

I guess the relevance to this thread is that Oklahoma fans acting like Riley didn't accomplish anything are saying that Stoops didn't accomplish anything the last 16 seasons he was there. Either Riley accomplished a lot or Stoops sucked his last 16 seasons. Can't have it both ways. 

This absolutism creates a false frame of reference.

----------------------------------------------------------------

You can, as I did above, point out Riley's successes and how he disappointed.

Similarly, Stoops pulled OU out of its worst decade since WWII, but he also rehired his brother and brought in unqualified friends as coaches. The nepotism had costs. Stoops also made the good decision to bring in Riley, but Bob would never get rid of Mike, even though it was obvious Mike was incapable of communicating with players.

All are simultaneously true.

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

 

Either way, OU fans are a bunch of fucking whining pieces of shit, so I love seeing it happen to them and to see them cry about it incessantly. Venables is going to be a bust. They fucking hated him on his way out of Norman as the DC, and now he's their savior? Lol. They will be second class in the sec. Even if they are better than that, I don't have to care anymore. Fuck them, forever.

[quigley 1143]

17 minutes ago, ouflak said:

Again, I don't think he was overrated. I think it really is a pure case of seeing exactly what you're getting and what you're going to get. USC teams should do well, win a lot of close, eventually very uncomfortably close, games. He'll rope in some players with some nice Hollywood style NIL deals. Rope in a few others since he is indeed a pretty good offensive recruiter. Time will go by, and the Trojan fans will also get to experience the pain of a mystifying loss to a team that had no business being in the game at all (and where USC perhaps even had a sizable lead at some point early on). And as soon as his team(s) faces a group of guys with the kind of intensity it takes to win a playoff game, that will be the crushing end to their season. His teams have been good in bowl games outside of the playoffs. *shrug* Except for the worst kind of luck, that should continue to be the case.

Yeah, I'm genuinely interested to see how he does. I'll be watching a lot more of SC. I won't be rooting for or against the Trojans. I'll more be looking to see how he grows (he's young enough that I think he will), and to think about how that would've projected to OU.

I do think he has a very high ceiling there, higher than what I interpret your comments to indicate. With NIL and bagmen plus a glamorous location, I think he'll be a top recruiter.

I'd love to see OU and SC play. The Trojans are amongst the few schools OU's played more than once against whom OU has a losing record (ND, Miami, Clemson, BYU?, Northwestern?, and of course Texas). OU has out of conference games against current SEC schools in 2023, 2024, 2027, and 2028. I may even go to a game in Norman or, more likely, LA, if that happens.

The fiery intensity of games between the Trojans and OU with Riley on the sideline would be EPIC.

Edited December 30, 2021 by quigley

[quigley 1143]

22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

They were at least close. Have to get there to win it. And they got there 3 times after Stoops won his 1 (granted one of those was an ass-blasting) and probably should have in 2017. 

But now they have a total unknown coming in with the hope that he pushes them over the top. Maybe Brent's the answer but I think it's just as likely they remember what it's like to lose 4 or 5 games in a season these next couple years. 

If Williams leaves (likely at this point) and they don't get a top portal QB, I think it's LIKELY that OU loses 3-5 games next year. Right now, I think it's just as likely that Dillon Gabriel starts for OU in Sep 2022 as it is that Williams does.

Two years from now is so far away (what conference are we in?, is Arch Manning in Austin or Norman?, is Sark still at UT?), that predictions are fraught.

Edited December 30, 2021 by quigley

[83Horn 1637]

3 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Agree, and I am.  But there’s levels to this shit.  There’s man I’m really disappointed we got buttfucked in the playoffs - again.  Then there’s WTF JUST HAPPENED WE LOST TO KU AT HOME?!?? disappointed. 

 

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

3 hours ago, quigley said:

If Williams leaves (likely at this point) and they don't get a top portal QB, I think it's LIKELY that OU loses 3-5 games next year. Right now, I think it's just as likely that Dillon Gabriel starts for OU in Sep 2022 as it is that Williams does.

Two years from now is so far away (what conference are we in?, is Arch Manning in Austin or Norman?, is Sark still at UT?), that predictions are fraught.

Now is the time to take your medicine and build the type of team that can compete at the highest level of the SEC.  That wasn’t the type of team LR rolled out there.  Do we really need 1-2 more XII titles?  I couldn’t care less.  

[totallynotabuttpirate 5294]

5 hours ago, quigley said:

....OU fans are excited.

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

3 hours ago, quigley said:

If Williams leaves (likely at this point) and they don't get a top portal QB, I think it's LIKELY that OU loses 3-5 games next year. Right now, I think it's just as likely that Dillon Gabriel starts for OU in Sep 2022 as it is that Williams does.

Two years from now is so far away (what conference are we in?, is Arch Manning in Austin or Norman?, is Sark still at UT?), that predictions are fraught.

Why would Williams leave? 

[Aqua Buddha 13897]

Williams hasn’t acted like he’s leaving.  Wease hit the portal and came back.  Doubt he does that if Williams was leaving,

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

I think Williams is 50/50.  He very likely could be playing coy to see what the BMD's cook up for NIL.  That's the game these days. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5294]

9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I think Williams is 50/50.  He very likely could be playing coy to see what the BMD's cook up for NIL.  That's the game these days. 

Wait, OU has BMDs? 

[ChiTownDoc 20838]

1 minute ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Wait, OU has BMDs? 

Their BMD's are missing a couple zeroes from the UT kind...it's all relative. 

[Dewey 3266]

10 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Wait, OU has BMDs? 

They'd bleed the state dry to keep the football program up and running 

[Constant 6524]

1 hour ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Wait, OU has BMDs? 

Their doors probably open normally, so more like NBD’s. 

[Pdawg88 1101]

8 hours ago, 'stache said:

This is surly, sir, I can be as vindictive against ou as I want to be. It's hyperbolic, I associate with plenty of sooners in my daily life without issue. It's not aggy. 

I'm not butthurt, lol. It's a sports rivalry on a board full of assholes. Whateva, I do what I want!

You think OU OSU is a fucking rivalry? If the answer yes then you are a complete moron! OU-Texas is a rivalry. Bedlam is a great game but only OSU fans think of it as a rivalry. OSU wants it to be one but it never will be. 90-19-7,not a rivalry. Y’all did win this year so that’s cool, y’all get to walk around with your chest puffed out for a year which will be cute. But then reality will settle back in that y’all will always be little brother. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5294]

[SamsCorner 395]

16 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Damn.  You don’t sound butthurt at all.  Lol

All aggies are butthurt, all the time.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1548]

if Caleb Williams goes (probably USC) can Rattler come back to OU or too late?  Bad move by Rattler to portal so early without confirming with Williams. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Make em eat Taco Bell

[BabaYaga 15115]

CW...he gone.....

[Vertigo 20203]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:17 PM, quigley said:

If Williams leaves (likely at this point) and they don't get a top portal QB, I think it's LIKELY that OU loses 3-5 games next year. Right now, I think it's just as likely that Dillon Gabriel starts for OU in Sep 2022 as it is that Williams does.

Two years from now is so far away (what conference are we in?, is Arch Manning in Austin or Norman?, is Sark still at UT?), that predictions are fraught.

You honestly think Arch Manning is going to Norman when your star QB just walked out the door due to lack of NIL opportunity (among other things)?

Edited January 3, 2022 by Vertigo

[quigley 1143]

11 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

You honestly think Arch Manning is going to Norman when your star QB just walked out the door due to lack of NIL opportunity (among other things)?

Did you infer from my post that I thought Arch to OU was likely? I put it the middle of a series of statement where there is uncertainty WITH QUESTION MARKS BEHIND IT!!!

Where did you get that NIL was the driver of Williams leaving? As has been mentioned elsewhere Rattler got 1m or more this season. Williams isn't a jerk like Rattler, has higher upside, and OU needs him for stability. I'm sure the money is there.

Williams went to OU because Riley got Jalen Hurts to the Heisman ceremony and two other guys selected #1 in the draft. Riley's can't figure out how to beat soft zone coverage and is gone anyway.

The actual focus of that post was the Williams was leaving, now confirmed. So I'll take my flowers.

Edited January 3, 2022 by quigley