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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

You know what the adjustment is to 3 high safeties? Running the football until they stop it.

That thinking is exactly why Iowa State used to beat Tom Herman's ass. They continually had one of the best rush defenses in the Big 12. The 3 deep can be passed on, that is how teams beat ISU defenses. Problem is people look at the pre-snap look and do not look at what the defenses moves into. Its generally a cover 2 or cover 3. Not always a drop 8 look. You can bring pressure out of it. Best way to attack it is go extreme. Hard to disguise your looks vs empty or Sark used to go with the 6 OL look to run. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
1 hour ago, Slacks said:

Ok. Now we're talking.

What I've noticed is defenses are willing to take a chance with our crazy running game where we ask the C or G to pull and reach a LB that is way faster and has seen film, so isn't guessing. We miss a lot of blocks.

The running game is good enough, but not consistent enough, for teams to have to commit to it. 

Similarly, the deep ball game is not consistent at all unless a player is WIDE TF OPEN. So teams try to eliminate wide open free receivers deep. 

Where does Quinn operate best? Medium range, so put 5 players in the middle and try to decrease his effectiveness there. 

If nothing else, defenses are trying to force perfection (or, at least, hope the offense makes a mistake before the defense does.)

Minimize the potential of the weapons.

 

This is what I’ve been thinking. They aren’t playing 3 safeties to take away the deep ball so to speak. Why would they. They are just trying to confuse Quinn by moving a bunch of guys around in the middle of the field and it’s working. You don’t even have to cover that well, just confuse him and he’ll hold onto the ball. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

You know what the adjustment is to 3 high safeties? Running the football until they stop it.

Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us. They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time, and since Sark hasn't put enough emphasis on the running game they are not overly concerned about it.  That's the game plan against us. Defense plays everything in front of them, bend don't break, hope to force a turnover or FG. 

They were in 3 high on first drive when Quinn missed an open Golden for a touchdown. Just because we don't have the "numbers" doesn't mean opportunities aren't there, particularly vs. a shitty secondary like Ark. It's ok for Texas to force the issue. 

 

 

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us. They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time, and since Sark hasn't put enough emphasis on the running game they are not overly concerned about it.  That's the game plan against us. Defense plays everything in front of them, bend don't break, hope to force a turnover or FG. 

 

Or wait for the drive killing hold that occurs when one of our backs bounces what should be an inside run. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

That thinking is exactly why Iowa State used to beat Tom Herman's ass. They continually had one of the best rush defenses in the Big 12. The 3 deep can be passed on, that is how teams beat ISU defenses. Problem is people look at the pre-snap look and do not look at what the move into. Its generally a cover 2 or cover 3. Not always a drop 8 look. Best way to attack it is go extreme. Hard to disguise your looks vs empty or Sark used to go with the 6 OL look to run. 

Technically the 6 Oline package was just 12 personnel with a really good blocker. Our problem is we aren't very good blocking out of 12 personnel so we can't force teams out of 3 high. We are currently number 64 in the country and 8th in the SEC in rushing despite seeing light boxes every week. People keep saying we run fine but we are doing exactly what teams want us to do. They know that our running game is inconsistent and we will suffer a negative play somewhere in the drive and they can then take advantage of.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

You know what the adjustment is to 3 high safeties? Running the football until they stop it.

Or your qb hits open guys all day in the middle of the field…….  Just an idea.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us. They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time, and since Sark hasn't put enough emphasis on the running game they are not overly concerned about it.  That's the game plan against us. Defense plays everything in front of them, bend don't break, hope to force a turnover or FG. 

They were in 3 high on first drive when Quinn missed an open Golden for a touchdown. Just because we don't have the "numbers" doesn't mean opportunities aren't there, particularly vs. a shitty secondary like Ark. It's ok for Texas to force the issue. 

 

 

 

Says "Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time" then follows that up by citing a play where the fact that they were in 3 high is why they were able to bat a deep ball away that would've hit Golden square in the hands. lol.

3 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

Or your qb hits open guys all day in the middle of the field…….  Just an idea.  

Did you see us running a bunch of intermediate middle of the field routes?

Posted
44 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

its simple. Texas has a NC caliber team, and the starting QB is currently ranked 13th among SEC QBs by PFF. Nobody cares if a QB sucks on a 5-7 team. They tend to get pissy when the QB appears to be the biggest liability to winning a NC

4-6 Kentucky fan is ready to start their true freshman QB.  They’re done with the Georgia reject.

Posted
1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

Says "Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time" then follows that up by citing a play where the fact that they were in 3 high is why they were able to bat a deep ball away that would've hit Golden square in the hands. lol.

That ball was late. Amazing you can't see this stuff. 

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, B00M said:

Or wait for the drive killing hold that occurs when one of our backs bounces what should be an inside run. 

No kidding this has been a much bigger detriment than Quinn.  When we should be 3rd and 6 we are now 3rd and Orlando.  When teams get us in 3rd and Orlando they make us pay.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Technically the 6 Oline package was just 12 personnel with a really good blocker. Our problem is we aren't very good blocking out of 12 personnel so we can't force teams out of 3 high. We are currently number 64 in the country and 8th in the SEC in rushing despite seeing light boxes every week. People keep saying we run fine but we are doing exactly what teams want us to do. They know that our running game is inconsistent and we will suffer a negative play somewhere in the drive and they can then take advantage of.

Arkansas gave up 850 passing yard the 2 prior games. They held DB tryouts in the off-weak. You think passing the ball vs Ark is what they wanted Texas to do? Again running the football is not the only way to beat that look. 5 years of watching ISU should make that apparent

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
2 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Chris Simms did the same thing - had crazy tunnel vision and locked onto receivers. Repeatedly blown out by OU with 0 TDs and 12 INTs and benched in his only big 12 championship game 

Simms was never even close to being 'blown out' by OU as a starter despite the cultists revisionist history but I digress.  I think Simms is a pretty decent comparison to Ewers in that their highs were really high but not consistent.   One massive difference is that Simms had to deal with a fucking Mack Brown/Greg Davis gameplan (against OU in particular) and was handcuffed frequently by conservative and uncreative play calling despite all the talent around him.   There are times we can nit pick Sark play calling but on the whole it is light years difference then the scheme from 99-04 when we just out talented teams to win games but couldn't scheme for shit.  Now our scheme is usually there (only game this season probably outs chemed was UGA in my mind).  When Quinn is off or hesitant, there are plays to be made and he's just not making them consistently.   Again, he didn't have a "bad" game against Arkansas but an above average game from the standard of a 'good' D1 QB and that game is never within 2 TD's in the 2nd half.  A good to great game by Quinn standards and we probably flat blow them out the way our D was playing.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

That ball was late. Amazing you can't see this stuff. 

 

Everyone can see that. Everyone can also see how tight a window it was because they dropped 8 defenders and had 3 safeties. Throw had to be perfect.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Says "Teams aren't running 3 high because they are scared of the deep ball against us They are running it because with that look they know Quinn will  become Checkdown Charlie 90% of the time" then follows that up by citing a play where the fact that they were in 3 high is why they were able to bat a deep ball away that would've hit Golden square in the hands. lol.

Did you see us running a bunch of intermediate middle of the field routes?

There’s been plenty of examples posted in this thread already with pictures of guys wide open in the middle of the field….  If it’s not Helm open in the middle it’s like he can’t see them at all.  Quinn is just not close to great, it’s that simple.  He's Sam Ehlinger without the heart and toughness. 

Edited by Hook1997
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Arkansas gave up 850 passing yard the 2 prior games. They held DB tryouts in the off-weak. You think passing the ball vs Ark is what they wanted Texas to do? Again running the football is not the only way to beat that look. 5 years of watching ISU should make that apparent

Let me know when we run 11 personnel or 5 wide all game and not 50% 12 personnel. Get mad at Sark for not spreading it out and taking advantage of one v ones.

Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

Everyone can see that. Everyone can also see how tight a window it was because they dropped 8 defenders and had 3 safeties. Throw had to be perfect.

I just realized we are talking about different plays. The pass that was batted down by Arkansas DB was late. 

My original comment was about this play. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I just realized we are talking about different plays. The pass that was batted down by Arkansas DB was late. 

My original comment was about this play. 

 

this was exactly my point. You have "experts" saying "its 3 high, you cant throw it deep". Arkansas brought 5 rushers on this play. 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I just realized we are talking about different plays. The pass that was batted down by Arkansas DB was late. 

My original comment was about this play. 

 

Yeah that dude CANNOT hit a deep post to save his life and this route combo we run a bazillion times a game. He misses it every time and Sark calls it over and over. He cannot make this throw. The few times we've completed it the receiver turned vertical to run under it. Not sure why we are still calling it but here we are. It doesn't fit his eye but Sark is extremely stubborn about it.

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Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

Yeah that dude CANNOT hit a deep post to save his life and this route combo we run a bazillion times a game. He misses it every time and Sark calls it over and over. He cannot make this throw. The few times we've completed it the receiver turned vertical to run under it. Not sure why we are still calling it but here we are. It doesn't fit his eye but Sark is extremely stubborn about it.

I too would be stubborn about calling touchdown plays. 

 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, Derka said:

the biggest criticism he deserves is for sticking with QE during the georgia game. on game days sark is winning us games and scoring us points more than any play caller in UT history. sark has set our offense up to be in a position to win every game (save UGA) by multiple TDs if quinn weren’t so inaccurate and poor in the pocket. our schemes, as limited as they are, have been working. the plays have been there, our qb just hasn’t made many of them.

Know how I know you didn't watch the game?

 

28 minutes ago, Derka said:

it is just baffling that so many people not only defend him, but basically absolve him of any blame for his own shortcomings and failures. like yeah, it’s totally steve sarkisian, kelvin banks, gunnar helm, and matthew golden’s fault that we can’t move the ball or score points. give me a break.

Quinn has limitations for sure.  I have a belief (subject to change) that he does better when he doesn't try to think so much.   But Cam Williams getting pushed around and playing like sophomore Chris Jones (self-tackling, missing blocks, and not making contact with the defense is a real problem.  The offensive line shouldn't be falling for stunts and committing multiple false starts either.   Golden seems to be playing well, Bolden is highly motivated and had a judgement lapse, but gives so much effort it is easy to overlook.   We are missing Baxter, and I am not sure what is going on with the sudden bout of fumbles from our backs.   The issue is that the QB gets a shit load of blame and a shit load of credit.  Both binary perspectives are stupid and lazy.   A receiver adjusting to the ball is their job.   

 

Lastly, I tend to think that Sark is not really trying to gamble or go aggressive early depending on what he is seeing.   Since Arky's offense was largely impotent vs the Texas Defense, my guess is that Sark was content to just run the clock, make some throws here and there, take few risks, and take it easy.  When Arkansas scored and started to make it close, Texas immediately responded and scored pretty easily, then went back into cruise control.   I really do not think Michigan/Florida et al. made significant half-time adjustments to limit Texas' offense.   But that is just my interpretation, I could be wrong.

 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Everyone can see that. Everyone can also see how tight a window it was because they dropped 8 defenders and had 3 safeties. Throw had to be perfect.

Was it that tight of a window? Watching Georgia-Tenn that night, lowly Beck made Quinn’s arm look weak as fuck. QE’s lack of throwing power COMBINED with his lack of down field accuracy leaves him with no confidence to just let it rip. I’ll be surprised if he volunteers for velo testing at the combine. Failing to break 50 mph would definitely raise eyebrows for a guy that can “make all the throws” 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

this was exactly my point. You have "experts" saying "its 3 high, you cant throw it deep". Arkansas brought 5 rushers on this play. 

Are we really arguing whether it's harder to throw deep vs 3 safeties over 2 safeties? Lol. Seems self explanatory.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

There’s been plenty of examples posted in this thread already with pictures of guys wide open in the middle of the field….  If it’s not Helm open in the middle it’s like he can’t see them at all.  Quinn is just not close to great, it’s that simple.  He's Sam Ehlinger without the heart and toughness. 

How do you feed yourself? Do you have a live-in assistant?

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Posted
1 minute ago, B00M said:

Was it that tight of a window? Watching Georgia-Tenn that night, lowly Beck made Quinn’s arm look weak as fuck. QE’s lack of throwing power COMBINED with his lack of down field accuracy leaves him with no confidence to just let it rip. I’ll be surprised if he volunteers for velo testing at the combine. Failing to break 50 mph would definitely raise eyebrows for a guy that can “make all the throws” 

Again. You are voicing your own personnel expectations based on what some 9.95ers told you. So if you are upset about his throwing velocity then that is on you. I have never seen him rifle balls and so I don't expect him to. He throws the way he throws.

Also, Beck threw for 347 vs Tenn and looked like a whole new man. Like all those interceptions were behind him right? Wanna know why? Tenn pretty much plays straight bump and run man coverage. No confusing zone schemes. Perfect for a QB who struggles reading defenses but is otherwise a solid passer. Wait til he faces another good zone team.

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Are we really arguing whether it's harder to throw deep vs 3 safeties over 2 safeties? Lol. Seems self explanatory.

Arkansas has 5 rushers and 6 players dropping into coverage. That is easier to throw on than the typical 4 rushers and 7 players dropping back. You are just spitting out BS to defend Ewers at any cost, without even thinking. 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted

 

8 minutes ago, B00M said:

Was it that tight of a window? Watching Georgia-Tenn that night, lowly Beck made Quinn’s arm look weak as fuck. QE’s lack of throwing power COMBINED with his lack of down field accuracy leaves him with no confidence to just let it rip. I’ll be surprised if he volunteers for velo testing at the combine. Failing to break 50 mph would definitely raise eyebrows for a guy that can “make all the throws” 

This is a crazy take. The only passes Beck was completing consistently were hitting his TE on seem routes up the middle, which for some unknow reason Ten refused to cover/help on.

QE's arm is elite. The throw to Wingo that people in this thread are bashing him on.... was a arguably the hardest throw an NFL QB can make (opposite hash 20-25 yard downfield out), and he was just slightly late with that ball.

Are there times when he needs to put more juice on the ball, for sure. But to act like he can't, just because he can routinely make throws that other guys have to put there whole body into is a wild take. I would argue that a partially source for a lot of angst against Quinn. His arm is elite enough for him to make "good enough" or close to good enough throws without proper footwork and mechanics.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

Arkansas has 5 rushers and 6 players dropping into coverage. That is easier to throw on than the typical 4 rushers and 7 players dropping back. Your just spitting out BS to defend Ewers at any cost, without even thinking. 

I m not defending that throw. Ewers always misses that deep post. He cannot throw it and I've said it over and over again. He throws it vertical every time.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Arkansas has 5 rushers and 6 players dropping into coverage. That is easier to throw on than the typical 4 rushers and 7 players dropping back. 

Why do you say/think this?

 

Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Fico said:

Why do you say/think this?

 

This all started based on people saying you cannot throw when teams show a 3 high shell pre-snap. I said what they do after the pre-snap look is more important. In theory it is easier to throw vs 6 defenders dropping back vs 7 defenders typically (assuming you pick up the blitz, which happened). 1 less defender should equal more space. The point is not to be fooled by pre-snap looks. I believe Quinn struggles vs the 3 high, because he is slow to make post-snap reads (3 high makes it easier to disguise coverages). He excels when he has a clean pre-snap read. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fico said:

QE's arm is elite. The throw to Wingo that people in this thread are bashing him on.... was a arguably the hardest throw an NFL QB can make (opposite hash 20-25 yard downfield out), and he was just slightly late with that ball.

Are there times when he needs to put more juice on the ball, for sure. But to act like he can't, just because he can routinely make throws that other guys have to put there whole body into is a wild take.


I feel like you argued my point while calling it crazy. If he can throw hard, when has he? That 25 yard downfield out to Wingo was open and he couldn’t get the ball there in time. He desperately needs to get his whole body into some of these throws because he is NOT making them. His lower body mechanics are a train wreck that cost him so many downfield completions: when guys are wide open and he can lob it, he’s inaccurate, when it’s a tight window, he can’t find the juice. His short game is elite. If he can truly make all the throws, you tell me why else he’s bottom-tier SEC statistically. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, B00M said:


I feel like you argued my point while calling it crazy. If he can throw hard, when has he? That 25 yard downfield out to Wingo was open and he couldn’t get the ball there in time. He desperately needs to get his whole body into some of these throws because he is NOT making them. His lower body mechanics are a train wreck that cost him so many downfield completions: when guys are wide open and he can lob it, he’s inaccurate, when it’s a tight window, he can’t find the juice. His short game is elite. If he can truly make all the throws, you tell me why else he’s bottom-tier SEC statistically. 

Bottom tier for the entire season or just last weekend?  What PFF stats are you using -- the most recent week's or entire season?  I am guessing the latter.

Posted
1 minute ago, B00M said:


I feel like you argued my point while calling it crazy. If he can throw hard, when has he? That 25 yard downfield out to Wingo was open and he couldn’t get the ball there in time. He desperately needs to get his whole body into some of these throws because he is NOT making them. His lower body mechanics are a train wreck that cost him so many downfield completions: when guys are wide open and he can lob it, he’s inaccurate, when it’s a tight window, he can’t find the juice. His short game is elite. If he can truly make all the throws, you tell me why else he’s bottom-tier SEC statistically. 

It's weird, no doubt. He throws so effortlessly it's hard to see if the ball (by comparison) is getting there fast or not.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Michigan is desperate.  Would be funny if he came back and played at DKR in a Michigan uniform.  

 

I'm going to assume Sark ain't dumb enough to give up three years of Arch for 1 year of Quinn

We don't play Michigan next year. We play at Ohio State and 3 G5 patsies. Michigan doesn't return the trip until 2027 and Ewers isn't getting 3 more years of football.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Posted
12 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Bottom tier for the entire season or just last weekend?  What PFF stats are you using -- the most recent week's or entire season?  I am guessing the latter.

The wording is a little odd but these PFF grades are for the season to-date, updated after week 12: (QE is now 13th out of 16)

https://www.louisianasports.net/week-12-pff-sec-qb-rankings/

Even if you want to use QBR, ESPN puts him at 7th out of 15 qualifying SEC QBs. His draft stock has plummeted the last 5 weeks. 

Bad at reading defenses, bad pocket presence, bad lower body mechanics, low release point, injury prone … I guess it’s a wild take to suggest his arm strength is over rated too.

How did he end up with a perfect rating coming out of HS? 

IMG_2519.jpeg

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Posted
59 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Again. You are voicing your own personnel expectations based on what some 9.95ers told you. So if you are upset about his throwing velocity then that is on you. I have never seen him rifle balls and so I don't expect him to. He throws the way he throws.

Also, Beck threw for 347 vs Tenn and looked like a whole new man. Like all those interceptions were behind him right? Wanna know why? Tenn pretty much plays straight bump and run man coverage. No confusing zone schemes. Perfect for a QB who struggles reading defenses but is otherwise a solid passer. Wait til he faces another good zone team.

What is your point even?  That his being billed as elite but is actually mediocre reflects more on the fans than Quinn himself?  I can't even tell what your arguing in this thread other than being against any criticisms of Quinn.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, gurt said:

What is your point even?  That his being billed as elite but is actually mediocre reflects more on the fans than Quinn himself?  I can't even tell what your arguing in this thread other than being against any criticisms of Quinn.

If you don't know what's going on then why are you commenting? Lol

Posted
3 minutes ago, Hookem10 said:

This thread is a beating. Quinn is who he is. And we’re a good enough TEAM to win it all as long as he and the oline are not melting down.

But who is he?

Posted
Just now, Hookem10 said:

This thread is a beating. Quinn is who he is. And we’re a good enough TEAM to win it all as long as he and the oline are not melting down.

9-1 and 7 TD passes in the last two games with no picks. Yeah lets bench that guy lol.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

If you don't know what's going on then why are you commenting? Lol

its a rhetorical device for "you're moving the goalposts"

Edited by gurt
Posted
8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

9-1 and 7 TD passes in the last two games with no picks. Yeah lets bench that guy lol.

I’m not saying Quinn is bad. I’m saying he has strengths and weaknesses like every qb in the ncaa. Play to his strengths and we’re fine. The arguing about it and surly on surly violence is a beating. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Hookem10 said:

I’m not saying Quinn is bad. I’m saying he has strengths and weaknesses like every qb in the ncaa. Play to his strengths and we’re fine. The arguing about it and surly on surly violence is a beating. 

So you came on the Quinn Ewers thread to say stop talking about Quinn Ewers?

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Posted

Arguing about Quinn's velocity or touch etc. on difficult throws is getting lost in the minor details.  Leave that to the NFL scouts.    We can win or certainly compete against anyone if Quinn isn't playing hesitant and can consistently make the correct reads and hit open short to intermediate routes in the middle of the field and the occasional deep ball (even if still a lower than ideal percentage).  That combined with what we already do in the short passing game should yield enough points to damn near beat anyone.   He absolutely has the ability to do that as we've seen it numerous times over his career.   I think QE's best play against Arkansas was that 3rd and 12 scramble where he zipped a catchable ball into tight coverage.  It was an incompletion but that is what we need to see more of.  He stopped thinking on that play and just played football.  Sark has to figure out how to tap back into that kind of play more consistently for us to have the end to the season we should have.

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