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Posted
2 hours ago, Nivek said:

Arch Manning has had coaching from 3 HOF, QBs in his family alone. And yet he went 3/6 for 19 yards and a fumble against a college team!!!!   Do you understand how fucking stupid this statement is?


3 HOF, QBs”

1) Archie & Peyton are in the HOF, but who is the third family member?

Eli is not in the College Football HOF and…

•Eli was .500 as a starting QB in the NFL while never winning the league MVP, never being selected as an All-Pro, and never leading the league in passing.

2) Are we talking about Cooper? Because I am not even sure that he made the Isidore Newman School’s ring of honor  

 

2) I think that Arch has the potential to be one of the top college QBs in Texas over the next 20 months.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Napoleon said:


3 HOF, QBs”

1) Archie & Peyton are in the HOF, but who is the third family member?

Obviously Eli isn't in the NFL HOF . . . yet.  I think the majority opinion is that he will eventually make it.  He was only eligible just this year.

  • Like 1
Posted
You do know accuracy isn't the same thing as completion percentage, right? Or are you just a dumb fucking retard?

You certainly are a hateful person. I guess getting challenged on a discussion board was too much for you to handle. Which is evident by the ever changing standards. I’ll let you in on a professional secret. It is OK to be wrong, in fact it is good. Because this is how people learn if they have self-confidence.

And yes, completion percentage is an objective measure of a mix of accuracy and precision and is being used as a proxy here. It is a much more robust measure than, “Billy said so” or “Billy, Bobby, and Benny said so.” Parsing out accuracy and precision of in game performance would require much more analysis.

Or do you have a better statistical measure that is readily available?
Posted
Just now, Nivek said:


You certainly are a hateful person. I guess getting challenged on a discussion board was too much for you to handle. Which is evident by the ever changing standards. I’ll let you in on a professional secret. It is OK to be wrong, in fact it is good. Because this is how people learn if they have self-confidence.

And yes, completion percentage is an objective measure of a mix of accuracy and precision and is being used as a proxy here. It is a much more robust measure than, “Billy said so” or “Billy, Bobby, and Benny said so.” Parsing out accuracy and precision of in game performance would require much more analysis.

Or do you have a better statistical measure that is readily available?

I stood by my stance the entire time that accuracy and pocket awareness can’t be taught. Completion percentage can be easily gamed from near the LOS and check downs. It’s not a tell of accuracy. I posted numbers that support my theory that Quinn is not accurate from his on target rate. Sorry you’re wrong and complete moron for thinking completion percentage is accuracy 

Posted
14 hours ago, Napoleon said:


3 HOF, QBs”

1) Archie & Peyton are in the HOF, but who is the third family member?

Eli is not in the College Football HOF and…

•Eli was .500 as a starting QB in the NFL while never winning the league MVP, never being selected as an All-Pro, and never leading the league in passing.

2) Are we talking about Cooper? Because I am not even sure that he made the Isidore Newman School’s ring of honor  

 

2) I think that Arch has the potential to be one of the top college QBs in Texas over the next 20 months.

 

You are correct.  I was not precise in my language.

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Posted
22 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That’s literally correct. Those are two things they have or don’t have.

 

 

you can try and coach it but reality is most QBs only marginally improve or don’t improve accuracy at all

 

IMG_6211.thumb.jpeg.92524f328b104ba615c6536bb2324290.jpeg

 

you can’t coach a 11 second 100m guy to be a 10 second 100m guy. It’s just traits and skills that people have. 

Says two things are emphatically true…proceeds to provide support for only one of those two things.

Posted
25 minutes ago, Nope said:

Says two things are emphatically true…proceeds to provide support for only one of those two things.

Do I really need to show clips of Quinn pissing down his leg at the thought of pressure and all the sacks he caused on himself because he fucking sucks in the pocket? It’s quite obvious to see when a QB has no pocket presence or great. 

Posted
23 hours ago, AnotherLawyer said:

Yep. Every successful QB is just born accurate and aware, and there are no drills or coaching techniques for it and never were. Nailed it.

the speed of the sec had quinn totally flummoxed; there’s not a lot that mike mcdaniel can do to make quinn suddenly able to handle nfl speed, defenses, disguises, etc. you really can’t “coach up” a guy’s ability to be calm in the pocket while processing everything that an nfl qb has to process at warp speed. guys pretty much either have that or they don’t.

Posted
On 5/9/2025 at 5:37 PM, AnotherLawyer said:

It's stuff like this that really makes it difficult to engage you civilly. There's easy-to-find video out there of Ewers doing these things, but you decided to insult people instead of fact-checking yourself.

wait a second- you can’t engage me civilly because there’s an “easy to find” video of quinn ewers throwing a ball 80+ yards when he was in middle school, and yet you’ve neither found nor posted said video?

you’re actually in here being a prick and talking shit when i’m not, you can’t even find or post the video that i should have supposedly found very easily, and you still think *I’M* the problem poster? lmao, you fuckers are so completely self deluded it’s fascinating.

Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, AnotherLawyer said:

Aside from that, there are dozens of drills for pocket awareness and there are examples all over college and the pros of kids who succeeded or failed to make the mental and physical connection. For some it just clicks at some point. It's called the "game slowing down." For others it never does.

so after three years learning under sark, being surrounded by the best supporting cast in america, and playing a schedule where his team was a double digit favorite 90% of the time, where quinn was a total deer in the headlights against kentucky and arkansas, in your mind he’s just a few drills away from being able to master the toughest position in sports, all while losing every advantage he had at Texas. 

yeah, you guys are *totally* objective, and not just incessantly, blindly pumping up quinn in cult like fashion where reality is whatever you want it to be. 🙄 

Edited by Derka
Posted
21 hours ago, AnotherLawyer said:

No? Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are two *current* examples of how accuracy can be taught at the pro level. And every single NFL coach will tell you that pocket awareness can be taught. Will some be better than others? Of course. Can someone who has a different ceiling be taught to be as good as some natural talent like VY? No, but they sure as shit can be taught.

josh allen came out of college at 6’5” and 235 lbs with a cannon arm that could make every throw, and lamar jackson came out as the best player in college fb with michael vick like running ability. those are the examples you’re using to say that quinn can be coached into nfl-level accuracy and awareness? cuz those two did it? 

quinn resembles those two guys in zero ways, from his subpar size and athleticism, to the fact that he absolutely *cannot* make all the throws, to the fact that he spent his entire mediocre college seeing ghosts every time he dropped back, afraid to get hit and hurt again. but sure, like you said, just a couple of qb drills and he’ll be starting in no time.

Posted

This thread is even better than our VY Destination threads that we kept alive in the first half of the 2010s.

This thread continues to be a platform for constructive criticism & analysis while bringing out the best in humanity.

❤️🤘❤️

  • Haha 2
Posted
20 hours ago, AnotherLawyer said:

Cool. We talking about Ewers specifically or accuracy/pocket awareness generally? And is the standard of comparison how an 8th-year, All-Pro, MVP, Super Bowl winner throws?

lol, YOU keep speaking in generalities instead speaking specifically about quinn, and then YOU compared quinn to josh allen and lamar jackson. it was cool when you did that but now it’s out of bounds to compare him to mahomes? you don’t even have an honest point of view, you just say and believe whatever is best for quinn. 

Posted
34 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Do I really need to show clips of Quinn pissing down his leg at the thought of pressure and all the sacks he caused on himself because he fucking sucks in the pocket? It’s quite obvious to see when a QB has no pocket presence or great. 

You’re saying pocket presence is intrinsic and can’t be learned/taught, an exceptional claim to make and not support 

Posted
1 minute ago, Nope said:

You’re saying pocket presence is intrinsic and can’t be learned/taught, an exceptional claim to make and not support 

It is a talent inherited in utero.

Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, boilerhorn said:

It is a talent inherited in utero.

All around the country I see young QBs with shit pocket presence develop into older guys who do it decently.

Unfortunate that QE was an exception 

Edited by Nope
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Derka said:

josh allen came out of college at 6’5” and 235 lbs with a cannon arm that could make every throw, and lamar jackson came out as the best player in college fb with michael vick like running ability. those are the examples you’re using to say that quinn can be coached into nfl-level accuracy and awareness? cuz those two did it? 

quinn resembles those two guys in zero ways, from his subpar size and athleticism, to the fact that he absolutely *cannot* make all the throws, to the fact that he spent his entire mediocre college seeing ghosts every time he dropped back, afraid to get hit and hurt again. but sure, like you said, just a couple of qb drills and he’ll be starting in no time.

Josh Allen also played a bunch of sports at a small high school, never had elite coaching or went to elite QB camps, worked on his family's farm, and was like 6'3 and under 200 lbs when he came out of high school. He had to walk on at a community college before Wyoming. So to compare him with a kid from a well-to-do community in Texas who worked with QB coaches in middle school and went to every QB camp is certainly a choice.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I do think you can teach pocket awareness

this is why @AnotherLawyer’s posts are so maddeningly pointless. he keeps saying this ^^^, that you can teach pocket awareness- but then he doesn’t actually address the more specific, germane subject of whether or not quinn ewers- who had some of the worst pocket presence we’ve ever seen at Texas, who locks onto one target, who wasn’t good at diagnosing and processing *college* defensive schemes, and who generally has that deer-in-the-headlights look even when he’s not particularly under any pressure- can be coached up into a succesful nfl qb, which is literally the toughest job in all of sports. 

you can sit here all day and pound the table about how it’s possible to teach someone something, but it’s a helluva lot easier and more feasible to teach someone who has a great base with which to work + a clear potential for the necessary improvement than it is to take a person with no such foundation and make it happen. in the same way that derrick henry isn’t going to be taught to play wideout or that t’vondre sweat isn’t going to be trained to be an outside linebacker, quinn ewers isn’t suddenly going to be “taught” to be good at all of the things that he is the very worst at. i won’t hold my breath waiting for his flock to understand this though. 

Edited by Derka
Posted
19 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

This thread is even better than our VY Destination threads that we kept alive in the first half of the 2010s.

🤣 Wasn't there a user named "VYIsMyHero" or something like that who made about half the posts in that thread?

Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Nope said:

You’re saying pocket presence is intrinsic and can’t be learned/taught, an exceptional claim to make and not support 

he has supported the claim. quinn has spent his entire like being trained and coached by the best specialists in the game, and he still has zero pocket presence. he’s not neutral, or even mediocre- his pocket presence is terrible. guys don’t spend their entire lives receiving world class coaching on pocket presence, suck at it, and then suddenly get “taught” to have pocket presence in the pros, where everything is twice as fast and 10x more complicated. if someone could teach quinn ewers pocket presence it would have happened by now.

Edited by Derka
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Nope said:

You’re saying pocket presence is intrinsic and can’t be learned/taught, an exceptional claim to make and not support 

Quinn is quintessential proof for all the training, trainers, and coaching he’s had(hint it’s been the best his whole life). I think you’re conflating rhythm and timing or a passer to pocket awareness.
 

So tell me how can someone who has had the best coaching his entire life absolutely be dog shit at it if it is something that can be coached?

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
16 minutes ago, Derka said:

he has supported the claim. quinn has spent his entire like being trained and coached by the best specialists in the game, and he still has zero pocket presence. he’s not neutral, or even mediocre- his pocket presence is terrible. guys don’t spend their entire lives receiving world class coaching on pocket presence, suck at it, and then suddenly get “taught” to have pocket presence in the pros, where everything is twice as fast and 10x more complicated. if someone could teach quinn ewers pocket presence it would have happened by now.

 

14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Quinn is quintessential proof for all the training, trainers, and coaching he’s had(hint it’s been the best his whole life). I think you’re conflating rhythm and timing or a passer to pocket awareness. 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

Hudson Card, Garrett Gilbert, are a few others with same shit pocket awareness as Quinn who have been coached by highly respected QB trainers as well. 
 

Manziel represents the opposite of this spectrum as someone that possessed elite pocket awareness with not great coaching and self admitted never studied film. 
 

You can practice escape drills until the cows come home but if the QB has no feel for when the defender is coming, where he’s coming from, or where to escape to then those escape drills are useless.  At best you bail too early on a clean pocket, at worse you bail too late and get blasted. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
4 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

things like pocket presence are pretty much something you either have or you don’t. it’s like how some guys have “a feel for the game”. you don’t teach that to someone, he either has it or he doesn’t. if you show up to the nfl with terrible pocket presence after dedicating your entire life to playing qb, then yes, you are fucked. it’s like taking someone who’s afraid of snakes and throwing them into a giant rattlesnake pit- you can “teach” them whatever you want, but they’re either comfortable there or they aren’t. quinn ewers is very very very uncomfortable whenever there are people on the field who want to tackle him. not a whole lot anyone can do to fix that, especially now.

Posted

i gotta tell you, this contingent of people who don’t understand that pocket presence isn't something that you can transform once you enter the nfl is something to behold. we’re not talking about a skill where you can do a bunch of reps, improve your form and timing, and see marked improvement. you’re either calm and collected when the pass rush is on or you’re not. there are no stories of guys who were scared to death of the pass rush in college, then they got with andy reid or sean mcvey and suddenly became the picture of cool. it doesn’t happen. you pretty much either have it or you don’t. i don’t even know that there were people who didn’t know this before today.

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  • Like 1
Posted
56 minutes ago, Nope said:

All around the country I see young QBs with shit pocket presence develop into older guys who do it decently.

Unfortunate that QE was an exception 

As you probably know, I was kidding.  However, I agree with you.  Some folks can survive on innate talent until a certain point.  Then, they develop new skills.  etc.

Posted
21 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Hudson Card, Garrett Gilbert, are a few others with same shit pocket awareness as Quinn who have been coached by highly respected QB trainers as well. 
 

Manziel represents the opposite of this spectrum as someone that possessed elite pocket awareness with not great coaching and self admitted never studied film. 
 

You can practice escape drills until the cows come home but if the QB has no feel then those escape drills are useless. 

This post has me smiling that Arch was frequently running for his life at Isadore Newman.

And the fact that he played hoops was always a good thing, but playing for a non-power with an ever-collapsing pocket bodes well for our future.

🏈🥉🏀🤘

Posted

It’s likely much easier to coach the awareness out of a player than to coach it into them.

Sark has the inkling to be the type to coach it out of you.  He might be backing off that some.

Both of the points of discussion are heavily impacted by coaching and the environment.  Sometimes less coaching results in better production.  Vince Young is far from the only guy that needed “let him play.”

Posted (edited)

We need an "ignore" option for threads instead of just users. That way we can click on "next unread topic" without circling back into the sewage leak. If it exists, forgive my ignorance and teach me to use it, please.

Edited by Magus Ossis
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Posted
23 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh so just Quinn allow me to tee off then. The fucking guy has had private QB coaching his entire life, trains with Mahommes private trainer as well, was coached by Sark, and coached by Riley Dodge in HS. He’s had the best coaching you can get to this point yet this bum shits himself in the pocket at the hint of perceived pressure. So yeah tell again how you can coach pocket awareness…..

media.gif.1fed236853bbd1e0112ae56957ead52a.gif

  • Haha 1
Posted
20 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

"The Texas quarterback and former five-star recruit has displayed above-average accuracy to only the shorter levels of the field. Once Ewers starts throwing the ball over the middle, toward the boundaries, or deep down the field, his efficiency takes a steep hit.

It’s tough to watch Ewers try to drive a football toward the boundaries. He was on-target on just 46% of these looks, the lowest number I’ve ever charted to that level of the field. He’s also on-target on a sub-50% clip throwing the ball deep down the field as well. He was on-target on just 45% there as well. While he was a bit more accurate over the middle at 65%, this number is still a massive 5% below average historically.

Ewers has the worst accuracy and ball placement profile of any quarterback I have charted in the last three years and there is a real reason to wonder whether or not he actively held the Longhorns back from competing for a national title."

He should have come out the prior year. He would have been a higher pick, even with more and better QBs in the draft. The injuries in 24 really put out any flame he had, leaving him with an occasional spark. 

He'll be a practice squad QB at worst this season. 

10 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

We need an "ignore" option for threads instead of just users. That way we can click on "next unread topic" without circling back into the sewage leak. If it exists, forgive my ignorance and teach me to use it, please.

You know which thread to ignore. This one. 

Posted
52 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

@Derkayou know you can respond to multiple posts in one quote so you don’t have to do a consecutive triple post right?

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

  • Haha 1
Posted

You can use the plus button and it saves it from page to page. So you can just quote all posts and address them individually 

6 minutes ago, Derka said:

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

 

  • Haha 2
Posted
21 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

"The Texas quarterback and former five-star recruit has displayed above-average accuracy to only the shorter levels of the field. Once Ewers starts throwing the ball over the middle, toward the boundaries, or deep down the field, his efficiency takes a steep hit."

------------------

I stood by my stance the entire time that accuracy and pocket awareness can’t be taught. Completion percentage can be easily gamed from near the LOS and check downs. It’s not a tell of accuracy. I posted numbers that support my theory that Quinn is not accurate from his on target rate. Sorry you’re wrong and complete moron for thinking completion percentage is accuracy 

I normally don't like doing this, but this is who you cited.  Forgive me if the esteemed Cory Kinnan doesn't inspire me with confidence in his opinion on QB play.   

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F97788694-1f5b-47ac-8ac0-4fb576edfd13_378x436.png

 

You stood by the stance, but you are just wrong.  3 Individuals have been presented (1 college, 2 pros) to refute this claim.   Now, you can stand by this stance and claim that completion percentage isn't a perfect metric, and you will get no argument from me about that, but when I press you for a better one out there what do you have?   For now, it seems like the best proxy out there.  And while we are being exacting, let's parse accuracy from precision and see if we can that delineated better?   As far as statistics being gamed, I suppose that is true, but I tend to think that coaches will call plays with higher percentages of success than ones with lower percentages more-often, not just QE's coach.  Do you have evidence this was happening?  

Since we are being precise with our terminology now, let's first define what pocket awareness is before bothering to discuss it.  Morons like me, think definitions matter.  

Quote

@Derka Stated 

wait a second- you can’t engage me civilly because there’s an “easy to find” video of quinn ewers throwing a ball 80+ yards when he was in middle school, and yet you’ve neither found nor posted said video?

you’re actually in here being a prick and talking shit when i’m not, you can’t even find or post the video that i should have supposedly found very easily, and you still think *I’M* the problem poster? lmao, you fuckers are so completely self deluded it’s fascinating.

I hardly think you should be calling anyone out for failing to show receipts.  I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

 

 

Maybe it is fake, I can't tell where he is when he catches it.  But it wasn't hard to find.  

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Derka said:

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

I do. It always irritates me when I have something intelligent and witty to add to a discussion, and someone beats me to it. 

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

i have zero idea what you’re talking about. who requested what from me?

Posted
37 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I normally don't like doing this, but this is who you cited.  Forgive me if the esteemed Cory Kinnan doesn't inspire me with confidence in his opinion on QB play.   

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F97788694-1f5b-47ac-8ac0-4fb576edfd13_378x436.png

 

You stood by the stance, but you are just wrong.  3 Individuals have been presented (1 college, 2 pros) to refute this claim.   Now, you can stand by this stance and claim that completion percentage isn't a perfect metric, and you will get no argument from me about that, but when I press you for a better one out there what do you have?   For now, it seems like the best proxy out there.  And while we are being exacting, let's parse accuracy from precision and see if we can that delineated better?   As far as statistics being gamed, I suppose that is true, but I tend to think that coaches will call plays with higher percentages of success than ones with lower percentages more-often, not just QE's coach.  Do you have evidence this was happening?  

Since we are being precise with our terminology now, let's first define what pocket awareness is before bothering to discuss it.  Morons like me, think definitions matter.  

I hardly think you should be calling anyone out for failing to show receipts.  I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

 

 

Maybe it is fake, I can't tell where he is when he catches it.  But it wasn't hard to find.  

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

you talked all of that shit and then posted a video of quinn in high school? in what way is that video relevant to the condescendingly repeated assertion that there was “easy to find” video of quinn ewers throwing 80+ in middle school

Posted
42 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

you both need help. y’all talked all of that shit for a page and a half and this is what you’ve come up with. y’all “can’t be civil with me” because i was insulting to anyone who believes that quinn ewers was throwing 80+ in middle school (seriously, if you believe that, you’re a moron, and if me saying that upsets you, well…), and then you respond by going, “hers a video of him throwing 70 when he was in HS you idiot derka. showed you.” yeah. you really showed me.

Posted
40 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I do. It always irritates me when I have something intelligent and witty to add to a discussion, and someone beats me to it. 

well i never have anything witty or intelligent to say, so this doesn’t apply to me.

Posted
1 minute ago, Kennythetiger said:

You’re both. And I miss the A Year in the Life movies. 

preciate you! working on one right now! 🤘🏼 

Posted
9 minutes ago, lemonandaturd said:

Y'all ought to bet each other whether Ewers will have a more successful career in the NFL than Greg McElroy.  Both from Southlake Carroll and both drafted in the seventh round.  

image.png.95b1d3f10aadc82bbf7ae4dfb7bda3c8.png

For the gamblers among us, that is Greg McElroy's lifetime stat line.

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