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Texas Rangers 2023 - They're Still Shitty?


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9 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Dusty knew exactly what he was doing. Keep extending the game because our closer was on the bench getting cold. Had no way to warm up since he was already in the game. And this stems from another problem. Chapman, our 8th inning guy, gives the coaches no confidence that the slightest bit of adversity causes him to get pulled. Had Chapman been able to get out of the 8th, Leclerc could have been out in the pen warming up the entire time of the little skirmish. 

He can grab one of about 20 guys and go into the clubhouse and toss a ball if that’s a concern. 

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7 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Dusty knew exactly what he was doing. Keep extending the game because our closer was on the bench getting cold. Had no way to warm up since he was already in the game. And this stems from another problem. Chapman, our 8th inning guy, gives the coaches no confidence that the slightest bit of adversity causes him to get pulled. Had Chapman been able to get out of the 8th, Leclerc could have been out in the pen warming up the entire time of the little skirmish. 

oh i know(on both).  I'm still not sure why Garcia got tossed.  that was bullshit.  I was done with Chapman after about a month.

I'm still amazed that we rode with LeClerc'd as our closer.  he's not a closer and never really has been.

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But his approach to the 8th and 9th guy were dogshit. Especially to the 9th hole. I get he sat too long but for those guys, all you need to do is throw strikes and make them beat you with their bats. No idea why Maddux didn't go out there to talk to him after walking a guy who hasn't even seen an at bat this postseason. 

Fair. But is that approach or just not having command? Would have to go back and see if he was shaking stuff off or just going with what was called and couldn’t do it (which is sometimes harder to tell with pitchcom).
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Just now, dcar00 said:

I'm still amazed that we rode with LeClerc'd as our closer.  he's not a closer and never really has been.

What other choice did they have? Chapman is either great or a disaster. LeClerc fit the bill for a time but he was always going to regress to the mean. I was hoping it would last a little longer but it's not at all shocking. 

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Just now, Surly Bevo said:


Fair. But is that approach or just not having command? Would have to go back and see if he was shaking stuff off or just going with what was called and couldn’t do it (which is sometimes harder to tell with pitchcom).

it was command because....pressure.  the sitting didn't help but its really reggie miller gif

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4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Not sure either. You would think the 3rd base coach would be telling him to stay or go. Or at a minimum they signal the decision ahead of time. If he flies out, you still go. I'd love Bouchy to give some clarification on that but he won't. I'm also waiting for Bouchy to show some of the shit that helped him win multiple rings because it doesn't seem to be something he's capable of conjuring up the past 3 games after getting a 2-0 lead. 

In those days, he had an excellent pitching staff that gave the Giants a big advantage. Also had guys who came up clutch with the bats when it mattered. We don't have any of that. It's also been almost 10 years since his last ring. Hasn't did shit since then and was out the game for like 4 years until we gave him a call. Same thing as Jimmy Johnson when he went to the Dolphins. That magic was gone and he was playing with a lesser team than the one he had his success.

One thing I do question of him is 1st and 2nd no out for 2 innings straight and we get 0 runs. Not even once we don't bunt to get 2nd and 3rd with 2 at bats to get a minimum of one run. I had a bad feeling after that bottom 8 ended. 3 straight easy outs (well the first out was well hit but right at the 1B). The next 2 were dogshit. And right after that, they get 1st and 2nd 0 out and capitalize.

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Just now, mdmost said:

What other choice did they have? Chapman is either great or a disaster. LeClerc fit the bill for a time but he was always going to regress to the mean. I was hoping it would last a little longer but it's not at all shocking. 

I just meant from the front office in the season.  They knew what LeClerc was from multiple years and guess what....here we are.

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44 minutes ago, C-Man said:


The bullpen is garbage. It has been for six weeks or more. We had no clue this was going to be a contender last winter. We are way ahead of schedule. Fortify the bullpen, re-sign Montgomery and let’s roll next spring. This team will win a championship.

Need to get a hard pipe hitting motherfucker at DH too. Garver ain’t the answer 

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Just now, dcar00 said:

I just meant from the front office in the season.  They knew what LeClerc was from multiple years and guess what....here we are.

I don't know, man. I guess high priced bats are always more fun than solid bullpen help. Chapman was their answer it seems. 

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2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:


In theory he had less pressure than he did when he came in during the 8th.

somewhat. In the 9th, he had to get 3 outs. once he had given up the lead he was rollie fingers.  that's all you need to know.  He's not the worst reliever ever he's just not a closer.

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5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

oh i know(on both).  I'm still not sure why Garcia got tossed.  that was bullshit.  I was done with Chapman after about a month.

I'm still amazed that we rode with LeClerc'd as our closer.  he's not a closer and never really has been.

Agreed. If it was deemed by the umps that Abreu intentionally hit Garcia, why are we punishing Garcia by tossing him by simply reacting to what you deem a dirty play? He didn't throw a punch. He was heated and jawed but never really escalated it enough to get tossed. And they get their closer up and going while the whole thing extends out. 

Yeah, if Leclerc and Chapman are your 2 highest leveraged guys in your pen, you are in trouble. Luckily it hasn't hurt us these playoffs but at some point it was and it did it at the worst possible time. 

I get you don't trust Chapman at all but I would like to have seen him get that last out. Bullpen guys are such a fickle bunch. You take them out of their comfort zone, they can go off the rails.

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Gray and scherzer getting hurt crippled our rotation for a 7 game series.  
 

that plus the known issues with the pen and inconsistency of the offense are not a great combo for the highest level of success. These things were known, and they’ve been the culprits.  Having the pen not fail in the first two games didn’t solve those issues.

plus, the rangers this season like to have a losing streak follow their winning streaks. 
 

Next two are still winnable with a great effort from eovaldi, a strong rebound for Max’s second start back, and/or a game that the offense takes over.  I don’t think it happens, but it can. 

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Just now, Vic Mackey said:

Agreed. If it was deemed by the umps that Abreu intentionally hit Garcia, why are we punishing Garcia by tossing him by simply reacting to what you deem a dirty play? He didn't throw a punch. He was heated and jawed but never really escalated it enough to get tossed. And they get their closer up and going while the whole thing extends out. 

Yeah, if Leclerc and Chapman are your 2 highest leveraged guys in your pen, you are in trouble. Luckily it hasn't hurt us these playoffs but at some point it was and it did it at the worst possible time. 

I get you don't trust Chapman at all but I would like to have seen him get that last out. Bullpen guys are such a fickle bunch. You take them out of their comfort zone, they can go off the rails.

While none of them are any good options, I wanted SBorz to go out again. this is the season and I trust him more than chapman.

Chapman's stuff isn't "unusual" anymore.  guys don't fear him at all.

They must fix the bullpen.  we knew it had a chance to catch up to us and the starter situation just made it worse.  we are lucky to even be here.  It just suck losing to these douchnozzles.

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4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

This.  I give us about 5% chance of getting to a game 7 after that monumental collapse and our pitching situation.

This is 2011 all over again. There was zero chance the Rangers recover after collapsing then and it seems unlikely it will change now. All we can hope for is a repeat of the 2019 WS with Houston/Washington. But I don't recall Washington losing game 5 at home the way we just did. Makes a difference. I guess Eovaldi has a gem and have the AL come down to one game. Even then, who steps on the mound that gives you any sort of confidence? Another fatal flaw of this team. No one after your first 2 guys really are reliable. 

3 straight games where Houston jumps out early. We absolutely have to find a way to get on top of Houston in the early innings. 

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Just now, Vic Mackey said:

This is 2011 all over again. There was zero chance the Rangers recover after collapsing then and it seems unlikely it will change now. All we can hope for is a repeat of the 2019 WS with Houston/Washington. But I don't recall Washington losing game 5 at home the way we just did. Makes a difference. I guess Eovaldi has a gem and have the AL come down to one game. Even then, who steps on the mound that gives you any sort of confidence? Another fatal flaw of this team. No one after your first 2 guys really are reliable. 

3 straight games where Houston jumps out early. We absolutely have to find a way to get on top of Houston in the early innings. 

2 shutouts would be nice...

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26 minutes ago, gofuckyourself said:

Is it gutless, stupid or poorly coached?

Honest question because I don't know how those situations are taught/trained.

Definitely seemed like an easy tag and make it to 3rd play.

 

you're taught from little league on to never ever ever make the third out at third base.  you're in scoring position when you're at second base.  you have to give the next batter a chance to get you home.  advancing to third might get you home on a wild pitch but those occur at a much lower rate than base hits.

 

there was a very similar situation earlier this year.  we were down 1 in the 9th with no outs and zeke was on second. the batter hit a flyball to the left center gap and the left fielder made a running catch with his back to third base.  zeke didn't tag b/c he was halfway to third thinking the ball might drop.  he got roasted for that-  if the ball wasn't caught he would have scored from second and if it was caught he needed to be on third with 1 out where a fly ball could sacrifice him home.  i'm sure that was a coaching point that was discussed. 

 

what i'm wondering about is who is our "high iq baseball" guy in the clubhouse?  who's the leader everyone looks to for that?  boch is a good people manager. adolis is our emotional leader.  hedges is our energy guy.  it's not corey-  he hardly talks to the guys in the clubhouse apparently.  is it marcus?  as much as i know about this team i realized i don't know who it is. 

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2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

While none of them are any good options, I wanted SBorz to go out again. this is the season and I trust him more than chapman.

Chapman's stuff isn't "unusual" anymore.  guys don't fear him at all.

They must fix the bullpen.  we knew it had a chance to catch up to us and the starter situation just made it worse.  we are lucky to even be here.  It just suck losing to these douchnozzles.

Chapman has always been a one trick pony. Once that one trick isn't a big deal anymore, you aren't effective. The air came out of his sails in 2019 when he gave up the walk off ALCS HR to Altuve. Not sure why we thought trading for him was the best of ideas. I get going after this season but not for him. I would have been completely fine leaving him off the ALCS roster but we know that was never going to happen. 

Bullpen needs a big makeover this offseason. 

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13 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I don't know, man. I guess high priced bats are always more fun than solid bullpen help. Chapman was their answer it seems. 

sure. you are going to have to find some 6,7,8 guys on the cheap but you need a bulldog closer.  we have a guy who is known to wilt under pressure.

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23 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

you're taught from little league on to never ever ever make the third out at third base.  you're in scoring position when you're at second base.  you have to give the next batter a chance to get you home.  advancing to third might get you home on a wild pitch but those occur at a much lower rate than base hits.

 

there was a very similar situation earlier this year.  we were down 1 in the 9th with no outs and zeke was on second. the batter hit a flyball to the left center gap and the left fielder made a running catch with his back to third base.  zeke didn't tag b/c he was halfway to third thinking the ball might drop.  he got roasted for that-  if the ball wasn't caught he would have scored from second and if it was caught he needed to be on third with 1 out where a fly ball could sacrifice him home.  i'm sure that was a coaching point that was discussed. 

 

what i'm wondering about is who is our "high iq baseball" guy in the clubhouse?  who's the leader everyone looks to for that?  boch is a good people manager. adolis is our emotional leader.  hedges is our energy guy.  it's not corey-  he hardly talks to the guys in the clubhouse apparently.  is it marcus?  as much as i know about this team i realized i don't know who it is. 

It would be nice if Heim stepped up.   Seager should be the guy but yeah.

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Hard hit ball to seager which was a tough play and it gets past him. A hard hit ball to abreu while he playing up expecting bunt and he makes the play.
Season on the line top of the 9th Altuve comes up with 2 on base and crushes us. Bottom of the 9th, 2 on and season on the line and seager and semien do nothing.
They are making championship plays and we aren’t.

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9 minutes ago, NOOBSDUDE said:

Hard hit ball to seager which was a tough play and it gets past him. A hard hit ball to abreu while he playing up expecting bunt and he makes the play.
Season on the line top of the 9th Altuve comes up with 2 on base and crushes us. Bottom of the 9th, 2 on and season on the line and seager and semien do nothing.
They are making championship plays and we aren’t.

Both hit the ball as hard or harder than altuve. After that, it do be like that sometimes. 

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1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

you're taught from little league on to never ever ever make the third out at third base.  you're in scoring position when you're at second base.  you have to give the next batter a chance to get you home.  advancing to third might get you home on a wild pitch but those occur at a much lower rate than base hits.

 

there was a very similar situation earlier this year.  we were down 1 in the 9th with no outs and zeke was on second. the batter hit a flyball to the left center gap and the left fielder made a running catch with his back to third base.  zeke didn't tag b/c he was halfway to third thinking the ball might drop.  he got roasted for that-  if the ball wasn't caught he would have scored from second and if it was caught he needed to be on third with 1 out where a fly ball could sacrifice him home.  i'm sure that was a coaching point that was discussed. 

 

what i'm wondering about is who is our "high iq baseball" guy in the clubhouse?  who's the leader everyone looks to for that?  boch is a good people manager. adolis is our emotional leader.  hedges is our energy guy.  it's not corey-  he hardly talks to the guys in the clubhouse apparently.  is it marcus?  as much as i know about this team i realized i don't know who it is. 

He should of tagged no matter what.    The best arm in the league in CF is still going to throw the ball to 2B to stop the winning run from getting into scoring position by 1B tagging too.

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We lost this game when Lowe had the second worst at bat I’ve seen all year and just watches a strike out, and then the worst at bat all year when Jung can’t get a sac fly out and strikes out at a pitch in the dirt.

You can’t expect Altuve to go 0-5, that would have been outstanding of course, but unlikely.

Then again, our $100mm infield can’t hit in the playoffs.

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Not bunting, down 1 in the bottom of the 9th, with runners on first and second and no outs should be a felony.  

 

Edit: with a hitter that is batting in the .100's in the playoffs too.  

 

Also walking a batter hitting .150 for the year that hadn't made a playoff plate appearance also should suffer the same fate.  

Edited by chemHORN
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It would be nice if Heim stepped up.   Seager should be the guy but yeah.
He will hopefully.... eventually. He's too young on this team to expect that out of rn. When we signed Kevin Plawecki I was hoping he'd fill that role.
Probably Brad. 
Forgot about him.
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He should of tagged no matter what.    The best arm in the league in CF is still going to throw the ball to 2B to stop the winning run from getting into scoring position by 1B tagging too.
He should've been on third. You can tell he wasn't even thinking of tagging though.
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So I streamed this motherfucker and until the last two innings it was great, then I missed some stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but... The Rangers were rolling. If Garcia doesn't react, but simply takes his base, the umps wouldn't have ejected Abreu. The Astros closer wasn't warmed up, but after an ejection, the pitcher who is brought in gets all the time he needs to warm up. The decision to insert the closer became a lot more clear-cut. Meanwhile, the Rangers, riding some major momentum sat around and got cold. What am I missing?

The Rangers' infield made some errors, or at least boots. Sure as fuck should be bunting with two men on and no outs. It puts a lot of extra pressure on the pitcher. Everything coulda changed. Hope they can get their shit together.

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What am I missing?
The Rangers' infield made some errors, or at least boots.


If you're talking about the topspin liner to Corey that wasn't an error, it was a terrible bounce. The only way someone fields that ball cleanly is by sheer luck bc that bounced a foot higher than it should have. You stay low on a ball with topspin. It must have hit a small rock to generate that angle.
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55 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:


 

 


If you're talking about the topspin liner to Corey that wasn't an error, it was a terrible bounce. The only way someone fields that ball cleanly is by sheer luck bc that bounced a foot higher than it should have. You stay low on a ball with topspin. It must have hit a small rock to generate that angle.

 

It didn't look like an error, but damn they had their chances.

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8 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

you're taught from little league on to never ever ever make the third out at third base.  you're in scoring position when you're at second base.  you have to give the next batter a chance to get you home.  advancing to third might get you home on a wild pitch but those occur at a much lower rate than base hits.

 

there was a very similar situation earlier this year.  we were down 1 in the 9th with no outs and zeke was on second. the batter hit a flyball to the left center gap and the left fielder made a running catch with his back to third base.  zeke didn't tag b/c he was halfway to third thinking the ball might drop.  he got roasted for that-  if the ball wasn't caught he would have scored from second and if it was caught he needed to be on third with 1 out where a fly ball could sacrifice him home.  i'm sure that was a coaching point that was discussed. 

 

what i'm wondering about is who is our "high iq baseball" guy in the clubhouse?  who's the leader everyone looks to for that?  boch is a good people manager. adolis is our emotional leader.  hedges is our energy guy.  it's not corey-  he hardly talks to the guys in the clubhouse apparently.  is it marcus?  as much as i know about this team i realized i don't know who it is. 

well they certainly played like little league in the 8th and 9th so good job I guess.

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8 hours ago, chemHORN said:

Not bunting, down 1 in the bottom of the 9th, with runners on first and second and no outs should be a felony.  

Didn’t he square up and bunt the first pitch foul and then swing away after that? Not sure what the coaching call is there, but pretty sure the infield was in when he hit it right at someone after that. 

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When has this franchise ever done that?

The bullpen for the two WS teams was pretty good. Also, when they didn’t have a closer for the first Yankees series — we would’ve won if we had a closer for other than Craig Lefferts — they went out and lured the pederast from NY in Wetteland.

A more true comment is that this club hasn’t really ever had a great starting rotation. That was always done on the cheap.
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