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Posted
3 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Rewarding Hamas with an official Palestinian state after their terrorist attacks would be counterproductive. If large scale terrorism benefits them to that extent, then I'd expect more from them and other terrorist organizations as well.

It will likely never happen. Plus, We’d never let them become a state while terrorists are in charge. 

Posted
35 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Rewarding Hamas with an official Palestinian state after their terrorist attacks would be counterproductive. If large scale terrorism benefits them to that extent, then I'd expect more from them and other terrorist organizations as well.

Ya mean like Afghanistan? Libya? 

Funny, 2 posts and you find this thread. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Why are any of us here? 

I have a family member that lived in Tel Aviv on 10/07. He has since left, but he gives me some interesting perspective not seen in this thread, to say the least.  

Your comparisons are faulty. Hamas are  terrorists. No air quotes needed. Their aims have always been explicit. Rewarding them for 10/7 with a state recognition is the wrong move. 

k

Posted
2 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Why are any of us here? 

I have a family member that lived in Tel Aviv on 10/07. He has since left, but he gives me some interesting perspective not seen in this thread, to say the least.  

Your comparisons are faulty. Hamas are  terrorists. No air quotes needed. Their aims have always been explicit. Rewarding them for 10/7 with a state recognition is the wrong move. 

Painting every Palestinian as "hamas" is pretty fucked and going to keep getting in the way of ever actually talking about this. Acknowledgment of a Palestinian state doesn't mean putting hamas in charge. To the contrary, they haven't held an election in over 20 years! The Palestinian people have been protesting against hamas for ages, and have suffered brutal and oppressive crackdowns at the hands of hamas for their peaceful protests.

Granting a people local governance and freeing them from hamas does not mean "rewarding hamas with state recognition".

 

It's pretty fucking racist to say that any group of brown muslims in Palestine is "hamas". Is every white christian person from Alambama a klansman?

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Posted
Just now, syd vicious said:

Given what you've stated above, what do you think happens if fingers are snapped and there’s a Palestinian state? Who is most likely to be in charge?

you're telling me hamas still has a leadership structure in place after the IDF has killed >60,000 """hamas members"""? I thought all of the deaths were justified killings of hamas members, so there could hardly be any left, right?

You are again asserting that this group of beseiged and genocided palestinians has no ability but to put hamas in charge. Hamas has been in charge because once they gained the levers of power they made it so no more change could occur. That strangle hold has been broken, I would say. 

It's just that now instead of relenting, the IDF is using it as an excuse to murder people at breadlines. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Hitch said:

It will likely never happen. Plus, We’d never let them become a state while terrorists are in charge. 

There are no terrorists in charge in the West Bank (unless you count the IDF). How does Israel treat them?

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

There are no terrorists in charge in the West Bank (unless you count the IDF). How does Israel treat them?

Hamas runs rampant there because the PA is a joke unfortunately. Until they get control of the terrorists, we will not allow statehood. 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Also, to add to this, if there really is a power vacuum then there should be some more moderate leaders in Gaza speaking out. And again, they would rightly be amplified. I've heard of none. If you're aware of any moderate voices there, I would love for any of the posters here to share them. Thank you. 

There’s a reason other ME refuse to accept their refugees. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Hamas runs rampant there because the PA is a joke unfortunately. Until they get control of the terrorists, we will not allow statehood. 

That is literally just a straight up lie. Post evidence to back up your assertion.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

That is literally just a straight up lie. Post evidence to back up your assertion.

Oh, good lord. No Hamas in the West Bank, now I’ve heard it all. 

 

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Oh, and what reason would that be? Is there a bone in their brain that makes them too violent?

No, they’re understandably scared of Hamas and/or sympathizers. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Oh, good lord. No Hamas in the West Bank, now I’ve heard it all. 

That isn't what I said. You said Hamas is running rampant in the West Bank in response to me very obviously asking about IDF-backed settler terrorism in the West Bank. Back up your assertion with evidence.

5 minutes ago, Hitch said:

No, they’re understandably scared of Hamas and/or sympathizers. 

That is not the reason. Again, post evidence of your assertions instead of just making shit up and expecting the rest of us to play along.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

That isn't what I said. You said Hamas is running rampant in the West Bank in response to me very obviously asking about IDF-backed settler terrorism in the West Bank. Back up your assertion with evidence.

That is not the reason. Again, post evidence of your assertions instead of just making shit up and expecting the rest of us to play along.

The point is that security is up to Israel due to the PA being useless. 
 

That’s definitely the main reasons. Not sure what else to say. 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

The point is that security is up to Israel due to the PA being useless. 
 

That’s definitely the main reasons. Not sure what else to say. 

It's definitely not the main reason. Thanks for not answering my question or backing up your assertions in any way besides "trust me bro". Well done.

Posted
54 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Also, to add to this, if there really is a power vacuum then there should be some more moderate leaders in Gaza speaking out. And again, they would rightly be amplified. I've heard of none. If you're aware of any moderate voices there, I would love for any of the posters here to share them. Thank you. 

Hey, since you're new here I'll help you out.  I think this thread is more likely to have the political discussion you are looking for. Skip to the last page to be current. Welcome to the board!


 

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Posted
Just now, syd vicious said:

No thanks, I'm good. I don't see what’s political about what we're discussing. 

The discussion was around news of the potential recognition of a Palestinian state. It’s a bad idea, because that’s recognizing Hamas. Others claim, Hamas wouldn't be in charge of Palestinian state despite ruling Gaza. I asked for signs of any anti Hamas protests and some kind of moderate leader to step in. That should be easy to find in the news.

 

Again, the dog that didn't bark. 

It's really where all the main discussions and point of views take place. This is a news thread more for posting news and keeping people informed, versus having debates in your case with regards to moderate voices and their validity. Since you're new thought I'd help you out and point you in the right direction.  

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Posted
8 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Wow that is really helpful. Unfortunately it appears I am unable to post there.  

Until I can, I guess I'll have to wait here for the news stories showing anti-Hamas Gazans comfortably expressing their views. In lieu of seeing that in significant amounts I'll have to believe that Hamas is still in charge there. 

As long as that is the case it is irrelevant what these other nations like France and the Uk think. 

 

Gazans are too busy dodging bombs and bullets while starving to death to do much protesting at this point.

In Gaza, mounting evidence of famine and widespread starvation ...
?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fe1%2F50%2F5a7c55d743fd907d8b9c453b6bec%2Fgaza-famine-2226711872.jpg
4 things to know about Gaza right now amid warnings of 'mass ...
Gaza
4000.jpg?width=465&dpr=1&s=none&crop=none
Live updates: Israel to open aid corridors as outrage grows over ...
How Israel pushed Gaza to breaking point, 'starving, alone, and ...

 

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Posted
41 minutes ago, syd vicious said:

Wow that is really helpful. Unfortunately it appears I am unable to post there.  

Until I can, I guess I'll have to wait here for the news stories showing anti-Hamas Gazans comfortably expressing their views. In lieu of seeing that in significant amounts I'll have to believe that Hamas is still in charge there. 

As long as that is the case it is irrelevant what these other nations like France and the Uk think. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c175z14r8pro

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-02/hamas-accused-of-brutal-crackdown-on-protesters-in-gaza/105348408

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Posted

"It is wrong to starve people and shoot them when they gather to get food."

"It's ok because Hamas.  They should all die because you can't prove that they're not Hamas."

Good God!  Supporting genocide "because Hamas".  Soulless ghouls.

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Posted
10 hours ago, syd vicious said:

Why are any of us here? 

I have a family member that lived in Tel Aviv on 10/07. He has since left, but he gives me some interesting perspective not seen in this thread, to say the least.  

Your comparisons are faulty. Hamas are  terrorists. No air quotes needed. Their aims have always been explicit. Rewarding them for 10/7 with a state recognition is the wrong move. 

@immamac looks like gruhorn is back

Posted

Canada to Recognize Palestinian State at the U.N. General Assembly
Canada joins France and Britain in taking similar steps, after months of increasing criticism of Israel by Prime Minister Mark Carney.

Canada said on Wednesday that it would recognize Palestine as a state, if the Palestinian Authority commits to making certain changes including holding elections.

Prime Minister Mark Carney said he had received assurances that such changes would be carried out in a call with the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, and plans to formally recognize Palestine during the United Nations General Assembly in September.

“The deepening suffering of civilians leaves no room for delaying coordinated international action to support peace, security and the dignity of human life,” Mr. Carney said following a cabinet meeting largely focused on Gaza.

In recent days, Mr. Carney and others in his government — as well as leaders in France and Britain — have condemned the growing humanitarian crisis and rising starvation in Gaza, which Mr. Carney blamed on Israel’s refusal to cede control of aid to international organizations. Gaza health officials say dozens of people, including children, have died of starvation in recent weeks.

The dramatic policy reversal by Canada follows similar ones by France and Britain, increasing the pressure on Israel to end the nearly two-year-old war in the Gaza Strip.

Israel swiftly condemned the announcement.

image.thumb.png.3a228ebfa799b1136140e7104d8d7ec8.png

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Posted

Reminder:

  • In 2005, he was arrested in Israel while in possession of almost 200 gallons of gasoline on suspicion of participating in an attempt to blow up a highway.
  • In a 2015 interview, he said, "The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset", explaining that, while the it was harming Israel in international forums, Hamas' status as a terrorist organization meant that "no one will recognize it, no one will give it status at the ICC, no one will let it put forth a resolution at the U.N. Security Council".
  • Also in 2015, he said, "Anyone who wants to protect the Jewish People and opposes mixed marriages is not a racist. Whoever wants to let Jews live a Jewish life without non-Jews is not a racist."
  • In 2019, he campaigned on restoring the Torah justice system (Shariah Law, anyone?).
  • In 2021 he said to Arab lawmakers that, "You're here by mistake, it's a mistake that Ben-Gurion didn't finish the job and didn't throw you out in 1948."
  • In 20023 (before the Hamas attack), he called for "striking the cities of terror and its instigators without mercy, with tanks and helicopters". He also said that Israel should act "in a way that conveys that the master of the house has gone crazy".
  • Last year, he said, "There are no half measures ... Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat – total annihiliation. 'Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.' There is no place for them under heaven."
  • This year, he said, "They will be totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places."

image.thumb.png.f4460266c9ea36276f4c1899b05c030a.png
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/29/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-jewish-resettlement.html

Bezalel Smotrich, the far-right finance minister of Israel, said Tuesday that the country was “closer than ever” to rebuilding Jewish settlements in Gaza that were evacuated 20 years ago, adding that the war there had created the opportunity to expand them even further.

Mr. Smotrich’s remarks came soon after the Netherlands announced it was barring him and another far-right government minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, from entering the country in an effort to pressure Israel into stopping the 21-month war that has devastated Gaza.

The Palestinian enclave is now in the grips of a dire hunger crisis that has brought international outrage.

Both Mr. Smotrich and Mr. Ben-Gvir have called for the war to continue. They want “voluntary” migration of Gaza’s population of two million Palestinians, a measure that international legal experts have said would amount to ethnic cleansing.

The pair have already been sanctioned by other countries, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway and Britain, for inciting violence against Palestinians in the West Bank. They have also been barred from entering Slovenia.

Speaking at a conference for the anniversary of Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza in the summer of 2005, Mr. Smotrich described the territory as “an inseparable part of the land of Israel.”

“It’s real,” he said of the idea of Israeli settlers’ returning to Gaza. “For 20 years we called it wishful thinking. It seems to me it is now a real working plan.”

Mr. Smotrich, who also is the minister for settlement affairs in the Ministry of Defense, made his remarks as the humanitarian crisis reached new depths in Gaza. About 60,000 Palestinians, including thousands of children, have been killed in the war, according to Gaza health officials, whose data does not distinguish between combatants and civilians.

Much of the coastal enclave of Gaza has been reduced to rubble, and most of the population has been displaced. A United Nations-backed food-security group said Tuesday that famine was unfolding across most of the territory, citing months of severe aid restrictions imposed by Israel.

The war was set off by the Hamas-led attack on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed and about 250 more people were abducted to Gaza. Negotiations for a 60-day cease-fire that would bring the release of some of the 50 remaining hostages, about half of whom are believed to still be alive, have stalled.

Asked by an interviewer at the conference if the Israeli government was discussing an actual plan to reestablish settlements in Gaza, Mr. Smotrich did not give a direct answer but said, “Where there is no settlement there is no army; where there is no army there is no security.”

“I don’t want to return to Gush Katif,” he said, referring to the group of Jewish settlements in southern Gaza that were abandoned in 2005 as part of the Israeli government’s so-called disengagement plan from Gaza.

“It’s too small and crowded,” he said of the original area of the group. “It has to be much larger,” he said, adding that the situation in Gaza today “allows for bigger thinking.”

Mr. Smotrich has opposed Israel’s efforts, made under international pressure, to facilitate the entry of more aid into Gaza in recent days, and he has threatened in the past to leave the government under such circumstances. But he told the audience Tuesday that he was staying in office because he has “a reasonable basis to assume that good things are going to happen.”

In a separate statement responding to the travel ban, Mr. Smotrich said what was more important to him than being able to enter the Netherlands or other European countries was “that my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and all Jews around the world, be able to live in the state of Israel safely for decades and centuries to come.”

In the withdrawal of 2005, Israel pulled its troops and about 8,000 settlers out of Gaza, which it had captured from Egypt in the 1967 war, and demolished the 21 settlements it had built there. Right-wing supporters of the settlement movement decried what they called an “expulsion” and vowed to return and rebuild.

The office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not immediately respond to a request for comment about possible plans to reestablish Israeli settlements in Gaza.

Posted (edited)

Portugal is getting set to recognize Palestine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/portugal-makes-cautious-move-towards-recognising-palestinian-state-2025-07-31/

 

Even Germany is setting the stage to move forward with recognition.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-862848

Germany's Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul said on Thursday the recognition of a Palestinian state comes more at the end of the negotiations for a two-state solution, but that process must begin now, warning Berlin would respond to "unilateral steps".

Johann Wadephul issued the statement before heading off to Israel and the Palestinian territories on a trip Berlin has billed as a fact-finding mission amid heightened alarm over starvation in Gaza.

His remarks marked Germany’s strongest warning yet to Israel as Western nations intensify efforts to exert pressure. In recent weeks, Britain, Canada and France have all signaled their readiness to recognise a Palestinian state in Israeli-occupied territory at the United Nations General Assembly this September.

However, critics argue that Germany’s response remains overly cautious, shaped by an enduring sense of historical guilt for the Holocaust and reinforced by pro-Israel sentiment in influential media circles, weakening the West’s collective ability to apply meaningful pressure on Israel.

"In light of open annexation threats from parts of the Israeli government, a growing number of countries - including many in Europe - are now prepared to recognise a Palestinian state even without a prior negotiation process. The region and the Middle East peace process are therefore at a crossroads," Wadephul said.

"That process must begin now. Should unilateral steps be taken, Germany too will be compelled to respond."

Edited by bolverk

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