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2019 All-encompassing PAC 12 thread

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NYTimes article on PAC 12 Stuggles...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/sports/pac-12-tv-recruiting.html

In Pac-12 Football: Empty Seats, TV Woes and Recruiting Gaps

 

 

Here's another link if you get blocked by nytimes paywall....

https://www.enmnews.com/2019/09/20/in-pac-12-football-empty-seats-tv-woes-and-recruiting-gaps/

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan

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Yep, issues abound. Quite a few good to very good teams this year, none elite. Makes for a real fun conference race and little hopes for CFP participation.

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1) Oregon

2) Washington - One could easily argue for #1.

3) Utah - Move back into position as #1 in the south, this time with an offense to show for it

4) Colorado

5) USC - They need to heal up before they take on the Domers

6) ASU - Solid road win. They are a good, talented team on the upswing

7) Cal - They will (only) go as far as their depth takes them

8 ) WSU - Two losses in a row. Maybe Leach is right...

9) Stanford - Unimpressive last-minute win at home 

10) Arizona - See #9

11) UCLA - A bad team with proven upset potential. Host the Beavs in next week's pillow fight.

12) OSU - Blew their best shot at a win for the rest of the year...

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14 minutes ago, berlinerbaer said:

1) Oregon

2) Washington - One could easily argue for #1.

3) Utah - Move back into position as #1 in the south, this time with an offense to show for it

4) Colorado

5) USC - They need to heal up before they take on the Domers

6) ASU - Solid road win. They are a good, talented team on the upswing

7) Cal - They will (only) go as far as their depth takes them

8 ) WSU - Two losses in a row. Maybe Leach is right...

9) Stanford - Unimpressive last-minute win at home 

10) Arizona - See #9

11) UCLA - A bad team with proven upset potential. Host the Beavs in next week's pillow fight.

12) OSU - Blew their best shot at a win for the rest of the year...

I'd put Washington ahead of Oregon. Admittedly, I only saw Oregon play Auburn, but Washington is a damn good team. I just don't buy the Cristobal/Oregon hype. 

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I bumped this thread from page 4. Tells you all you need to know about the league this season.

1) Oregon - Indisputable

2) Utah - Current leader in the South

3) USC - Helton keeps his job at this rate

4) ASU - They seem good, just young

5) Washington - Three conference losses? Maybe fifth place is generous...

6) WSU - Too much love early, too much hate late

7) UCLA - Streak-breaking wins are worth extra in this ranking

8 ) Arizona - Respectable season if Tate stays healthy

9) Stanford - I don't think it's just injuries...

10) OSU - Beavers have bottomed out and are turning the corner

11) Colorado - Depth, or lack thereof, rears its ugly head in nasty 3-week bender

12) Cal -  See #11

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2 hours ago, texifornia said:

Ralphie is TOO POWERFUL to continue

 

 

What’s really the worst that could happen?

 


oh.

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What a fucking clown show:

Quote

The Pac-12’s statement Sunday evening about a momentous officiating gaffe in Berkeley provided some insight into what happened but missed the mark with regard to why and how it happened.

Why was Washington State called for, and assessed, an illegal hands-to-the-face penalty that was committed by Cal?

How did the gaffe, which resulted in a 57-yard mistake in field position, go unnoticed by officials on the field, in the replay booth and in the command center in San Francisco?

Without the why or the how, the Pac-12 statement intended to provide transparency fell short.

Worry not: The Hotline has cracked the case.

It’s not a satisfying answer for Washington State, or for anyone frustrated with Pac-12 officiating.

But it solves the mystery.

In the headline of its statement, the Pac-12 used the phrase “mechanics error” to describe the breakdown.

Disregard that. It’s misleading.

Referee Matt Richards, who called and assessed the penalty, had a mental lapse.

He had a titanic brain fart.

It’s as simple and painful (for the Cougars) as that.

It was so simple, in fact, that the conference had no way to prevent Richards from making the error and no way to correct the situation before it was too late — before the next play was run and the gaffe became permanent.

What happened?

The Hotline has reviewed multiple replays of the sequence over the past 48 hours, allowing us to spot the shortcomings in the conference’s statement and ultimately discover the crucial how and why.

Richards, as the referee, was positioned in the end zone behind Washington State returner Travell Harris on a kickoff with approximately 10 minutes remaining in the third quarter.

He correctly spotted the hands-to-the-face infraction committed by Cal’s Ben Moos (uniform No. 15) on Washington State’s Halid Djibril (No. 42) — a sequence that began at the 19 yard-line and culminated at the 16.

Then Richards, from behind the play, threw his flag and alerted his crew.

He then followed routine: He flipped on his mic, addressed the crowd and announced the penalty “on the receiving team number 15.”

Harris had returned the punt to the 50, but the infraction “on the receiving team” was committed at the 16.

Account for half the distance to the goal-line, and the ball was spotted at the eight.

Then the Cougars threw a short pass on first down … and Richards realized his mistake.

The wires had gotten crossed in his brain: He had believed Cal was the receiving team.

And in those few seconds, the damage was done.

Because the ball had been snapped for the ensuing play, there was no going back … no way to correct what had been a 57-yard mistake.

Washington State, which trailed 20-11, should have started its drive at Cal’s 35 yard-line: The kick return to the 50, plus 15 yards for the penalty.

How do we know Richards had a mental lapse — that it was human error, not a “mechanics error”?

The Hotline was able to review footage of the sequence that we hadn’t previously seen.

Listen carefully to Richards as he announces the penalty to the crowd.

At the end of his explanation is this:

“First down, Cal.”

In the moment, you think nothing of it. You assume he misspoke, as referees sometimes do.

But when added to the entirety of the sequence, the mystery is solved:

From the moment Richards spotted the hands-to-the-face, he had it stuck in his head that Cal was the receiving team.

And from his perspective, everything was executed properly:

He saw the infraction committed by a Cal player, he announced the penalty “on the receiving team,” and he walked off the yardage “on the receiving team.”

A titanic — and unstoppable — brain fart.

Why didn’t members of the officiating crew correct Richards?

Because he saw the penalty — it was his call.

Wires crossed in his head, he told the crew that No. 15 “on the receiving team” had committed the penalty, and they assumed that meant WSU.

When Richards walked off the yardage, the other officials had no reason to think he was doing so in error.

None of them looked around for No. 15 on the receiving team, because officials don’t typically check uniform numbers.

They count bodies to make sure each team has 11 on the field, but they don’t check numbers.

Had they looked, the crew would have realized No. 15 on the receiving team, a freshman named Armauni Archie, was on the WSU sideline during the kickoff.

Richards not only had assessed a penalty on the wrong team but on a player who wasn’t in the game.

Why didn’t the replay booth or the command center in San Francisco get involved?

Because illegal hands-to-the-face, like holding, isn’t a reviewable play.

Reviewable plays involve the boundary, the goal-line, control of the ball, targeting, etc.

As Richards was processing, explaining and assessing the penalty, the replay booth and command center were focused  on Harris, the returner:

At the end of his run, the ball popped loose — there was the potential for a fumble.

Because the identification of the penalty originated with Richards, there was no way for officials on the field or in the booth to know the wires had crossed in his brain … that he had flipped the kicking and receiving teams.

They had no reason to assume a mistake had been made.

And WSU lost 57 yards.

According to the conference statement Sunday evening, Richards informed the Cougars’ sideline of the mistake “after the next play was run.”

The Hotline asked Mike Leach on a teleconference Monday about the timing of events, and Leach said he was told of the mistake “later in the quarter.”

(Not wanting to get fined, Leach was vague on the topic.)

In contrast to corrective statements issued earlier this season, the conference did not provide an accompanying video explanation with narration by David Coleman, the vice president of officiating.

The reason, we suspect, is that Richards got the call right (hands to the face by No. 15).

There was nothing to show.

There is no section in the rulebook for referees confusing the kicking team with the receiving team.

The description of the mistake by the conference — a “mechanics error” — was misleading. It made clarity elusive in a statement intended to provide transparency.

In reality, it was human error, a giant mental lapse.

Why not call it an error in judgment?

The statement also explained the consequences:

Related Articles

Richards has been suspended for one game; the crew has been “downgraded,” which (we assume) could undermine their postseason assignments.

Is one game enough for Richards?

(We’re sympathetic. Washington State fans probably feels differently, and understandably so.)

There is precedent, as those who follow WSU might recall.

 

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On 11/29/2019 at 1:07 PM, berlinerbaer said:

Some stories rumors about Chip leaving Westwood at season's end to be a coordinator in the NFL.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/chip-kelly-ucla-parting-ways-tony-pauline/

Yeah, that has been dispelled.  Unfortunately.  Wish he would go.

Going tonight.  Rain, late start and shitty team means we may not break 30k at the Rose Bowl

Edited by Sbbruin

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Hahahahahahaha. Forget ESPN or FOX, the Pac-12 couldn't even get YoutubeTV, Hulu, or Amazon Prime to stream their network? WTF is Vidgo???

 

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16 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Vidgo doesn't have an office, or staff, or any money, that I can tell. 

ftfy

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59 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

What a fucking embarrassment Larry Scott is.

and all of the school presidents that keep extending him

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19 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I think this is their lead investor.

spacer.png

GIF by Silicon Valley Jian-Yang must be the Vice President

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I thought larry had the chicoms on the hook for BILLIONS to subscribe to the PAC12n

and what happened to the "investors" that were going to pay $500 million (no wait was it $750 million) for 10% (or was it 3%) of the PAC12n?

 

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not to interupt the circle jerk here, but the P12 networks are on the same number of streaming services as LHN and 2 of them are the same.    

 

P12; Sling, Fubu, & Vidgo.

 

keep in mind AT&T may be going away soon.  

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not to interupt the circle jerk here, but the P12 networks are on the same number of streaming services as LHN and 2 of them are the same.    
 
P12; Sling, Fubu, & Vidgo.
 
keep in mind AT&T may be going away soon.  

To be clear, LHN is a joke too.

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18 hours ago, SDG said:

not to interupt the circle jerk here, but the P12 networks are on the same number of streaming services as LHN and 2 of them are the same.    

 

P12; Sling, Fubu, & Vidgo.

 

keep in mind AT&T may be going away soon.  

AT&T has been gone for over a month.  

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18 hours ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving conference.  

Yet your bitchass, third-rate university is not even worthy of it.Try to catch back up to Utah State before you cry any more about the Pac-12.

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20 hours ago, gmr548 said:


To be clear, LHN is a joke too.

But my verizon Fios carries LHN.. so the Pac12 network is still the bigger joke

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20 hours ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving conference.  

How is that being an Independent working out for you?

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21 hours ago, TeddyBearStallion said:

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving conference.  

Gonzaga dropped from number 1 to number 2 after beating your team by 23. That's your place. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 7:32 PM, gmr548 said:


To be clear, LHN is a joke too.

1. LHN has more traditional cable carriage

2. while I understand the aspect of being on more streaming services is a little better because of the small amount of additional revenue for just being crammed onto subscribers.....from a "I want to see this" standpoint with streaming you really only need to be on a few services and about anyone in the world can get your network if they really want it.....unlike with traditional cable that has defined markets for each provider and if your provider(s) in your city do not have the network you are SOL

3. the LHN pays $20 million per year to ONE team while the PAC12n pays about $30 million per year to TWELVE teams

4. the LHN carries one football game (maybe 2) for ONE team and some mens BB and a lot of other stuff many people are not going to miss watching....the PAC12n carries a shit tonne of football, mens bb and other sports for 12 teams

5. this does not mean there are not a lot of really shitty things about the LHN or that ESPN has not just fucked it off and given up on production quality and programming......but it does mean that Texas is making a shit tonne more money for content that basically would still be difficult if not impossible for most people to see without the LHN

6. the biggest fuck up IMO with the LHN is the lack of UNIVERSITY and ACADEMIC programming that could be on there.....there is a shit tonne of really cool and interesting stuff going on at UT every day all day and sometimes all night.....that shit should be all over the LHN and if it was I can guarantee you that the LHN would be much more successful financially and for exposure for the university and even for athletics and much more successful even for ESPN.....but ESPN is a shit company with shit programming in general so that will never happen now if ever

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Seeing the Pac 12 beginning to really implode on itself and Larry Scott still leading the way...  Feels like a merger will happen between some PAC schools and of course Texas with Oklahoma.  I am hoping the Big 12 could stay, add another school or two. Let WVA go and kick out Baylor.  But with the PAC doing so bad, think the only thing that can save FOX/ESPN interests out there is for a new 16 school league.  Hope I'm wrong

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I'd really like to believe the PAC can survive with it's current membership. It's one of two present conferences that still feel relatively cohesive and regional, constrained to the major universities of the American west. But it's looking shitty. 

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Campus official across the Pac-12 have begun discussing the future of commissioner Larry Scott and believe a decision on his contract could come by the end of this year, if not sooner, according to conference sources.

Scott’s deal expires in two years, but the window is somewhat condensed, sources said, by the timing of the Pac-12’s media rights agreements.

Although the deals with ESPN and Fox run into the spring of 2024, formal negotiations likely would commence 18-21 months earlier, in the fall of 2022 — or just after Scott’s current contract expires.

And the Pac-12’s strategy, according to sources with experience in media deals, would have to be mapped out well in advance of the fall of 2022.

With that convergence of events, a contract extension would position Scott to lead the media rights negotiations that one source called “the most critical thing in the history of the conference.”

If Scott doesn’t want or doesn’t receive a contract extension, a long lead time would be required to find a commissioner, who would then need months to establish his/her strategy for the negotiations.

“They can’t wait until 2022 to make a decision on Larry,’’ a source said. “The future of the conference is at stake. By this summer, they have to know if he’s staying or going.”

Scott believes the timeframe for his contract discussions is longer and pointed to his past extensions — the most recent was in March ’17 — which have come about one year before the expiration date.

“There are still over two years left, and I haven’t had the first conversation about it,” he told the Hotline.

“There’s a lot going on that I’m excited about, and the alignment we’ve had (with the campuses) is as good as it’s been recently, if not ever.”

Scott said he was “laser-focused” on a series of issues and initiatives, including the conference’s ongoing search for a strategic partner that would provide immediate cash for the schools and help the Pac-12 maximize the value of its media content for the next contract cycle.

The Pac-12 is “actively in discussions with potential partners,” Scott said.

Asked if he wanted a new contract, Scott said:

“I haven’t had the first conversation with the board. I’m singularly focused on several major opportunities” for the conference. “When the time is right, I’ll have evaluations with my family.”

Unless Scott leaves on his own volition, his future would be determined by a vote of the presidents and chancellors, who meet as a group next month in Las Vegas at the Pac-12 tournament and then again in May in San Francisco.

Any discussion of, or formal vote on Scott’s contract likely would unfold during an executive session in which the CEO Group meets privately.

Executive sessions are standard components to Pac-12 meetings, both for the CEOs and the athletic directors. Some last a short period of time; some can take an hour or more.

The Hotline was unable to determine whether Scott’s contract will be discussed during the CEO Group’s executive session in Las Vegas.

Informal discussions about Scott’s future have taken place not only on the campuses but between the campuses, with officials at multiple levels involved.

One source mentioned positive developments in the past 12-15 months, including greater collaboration with the schools on policy matters and the avoidance of controversies through the 2019 football season.

But another source noted ongoing frustration on campuses with football officiating, and a third source expressed exasperation with the conference’s slow-to-evolve policy on transfer rules.

The Big Ten proposed last fall that athletes in all sports be allowed to transfer once without having to sit out a year; the ACC voiced unanimous support recently; and the NCAA Division I Council is expected to take up the matter this spring.

The Pac-12 is only now beginning to formulate a position on the groundbreaking issue.

“It’s not just the media deal” that has caused campus frustration, a source said, referring to the disappointment with the Pac-12 Networks.

For this article, the Hotline spoke to sources serving in various campus capacities and additional sources who have experience in media rights deals.

Each requested anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject.

None claimed to know how the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors would ultimately vote on Scott’s contract.

But on one topic, there was unanimity:

Whatever the CEOs and Scott decide, they must decide soon — while there is a choice.

“If it gets pushed off to the tail end, right before the (media) negotiations,’’ a source said, “that would force the league to extend him.”

The timing of the last commissioner change lends context to the current situation.

Scott’s predecessor, Tom Hansen, announced his retirement in the summer of 2008 — effective a year later. It took the conference approximately six months to select Scott, then another four until Scott assumed the post.

More recently, the Big Ten’s transition window, from longtime commissioner Jim Delany’s retirement announcement to successor Kevin Warren’s first day on the job, took 10 months.

So if there is, in fact, change atop the Pac-12 org chart, expect the transition to require nine-to-12 months.

Add the time required for a new commissioner to set the media strategy, and the fall of 2022 — when the conference is expected to begin the exclusive negotiating window with ESPN and Fox — isn’t that far off.

“If the presidents come out in favor of the status quo, then Larry will see us through the negotiations,’’ a source said.

“But they can’t have one commissioner start a strategy and then make a change and then bring in someone else and start on another strategy.

“The question is, do the presidents understand that?”

Scott said he is monitoring the media landscape closely on two fronts: An approach for the conference at the negotiating table for the rights that expire in 2024, and strategic options that could arise prior to that point.

“It’s a high priority,” he said, adding that “you want to have a game plan in place far enough in advance, but not so far in advance” — because of the rapid pace of change in technology and consumer behavior.

The Pac-12’s unique structure, with a wholly-owned media company, adds another layer to the timing for the presidents and chancellors to consider.

The negotiations likely to begin in the fall of 2022 won’t be restricted to the future of the Tier One content currently owned by ESPN and Fox. They would include the Pac-12 Networks’ inventory of football, basketball and Olympic sports.

 

Scott believes that by placing everything on the table at once, the conference would be better positioned for a jackpot.

But because the content on the Pac-12 Networks isn’t licensed to a media partner, there are no restrictions on the conference’s ability to begin exploratory discussions specific to that inventory.

As a result, Scott (or his successor) could conceivably begin to formulate a broader media strategy well in advance of the formal Tier One negotiations.

“(With) the potential equity investment and selection of a consultant and things along those lines,” a source said of Scott’s future, “they should start pretty soon.”

 

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  •  
 
 
 
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USC athletic director Mike Bohn attempted to clarify Thursday his assertion that "everything is on the table" in terms of the Trojans' future conference affiliation.

"It was not malicious," Bohn told CBS Sports referring to comments made on a USC 247Sports podcast

When asked by USCFootball.com's Ryan Abraham this week if he would consider football going independent or joining another conference, Bohn said, "I think right now, Larry would agree with this, everything is on the table."

Larry Scott is the Pac-12 commissioner.

"The answer is no," Bohn said when contacted by CBS Sports on Thursday. "Why would we do that? We've got 21 sports here. You know the drill. There would be no way for us to do that.

"Now, that being said, if the unexpected happened and NBC said, 'Hey we want to partner you guys with Notre Dame' … then that's different.'"

 

USC is largely regarded as the Pac-12's flagship football program. However, coach Clay Helton (40-22) is under fire heading into his fifth full season.  It's fair to say fans and donors remain frustrated with one conference title for the Trojans since 2008.

Even with that recent history, USC would be desirable to any conference and is one of the few schools that could be competitive nationally as an independent.

The Pac-12 last expanded from 10 to 12 schools in 2012. That after Scott failed to raid the Big 12 of six schools and expand to 16. The more subdued expansion was still the foundation for the launch of a conference network that led to record revenues.

"It was bonanza at the time," Bohn said.

However, over the years, the network has struggled while other Power Five leagues have surpassed the Pac-12 in revenue.

 

The latest estimates have the league at least $17 million per school annually behind the Big Ten, the revenue leader among conferences. At $33 million per school, the Pac-12 is fifth in the Power Five. 

"There's no talk of [leaving], but guess what? If it was on the table, we would certainly explore that," Bohn said. "But I've got to be careful. The league is really tender.

"The context that I was talking about was whether it was league TV stuff, creative pieces with any other type of deliverable, it has to be on the table. Guess what? If that helps [the league] understand the importance of what our campuses are going through, so be it."

Bohn later added, "I don't want to walk it back, but hopefully that gives it a little more context."

 

The Pac-12's current tier I rights fees agreement with ESPN and Fox expires in 2024. That would be two years after USC's 100th anniversary of joining what was then known as the Pacific Coast Conference in 1922.

Bohn is his fourth month on the job after arriving from Cincinnati in November 2019 to replace Lynn Swann. He is a 36-year veteran of athletic administration. Bohn was Colorado's AD when the Buffaloes joined the Pac-12 in 2012.

"We're optimistic about the future. We're aligned with the league," Bohn said. "I know that Larry and our group of presidents are committed that we look under every rock and every possibility to remain our competitive stature." 

 

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22 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

damn.. if that is not lifting your skirt offering yourself to be woo'd..i don't know what is.  Bowlsby should be proactive and get some people in the shadows to reach out.  I like the Big 12 minus baylor..WV is ok..but being able to add USC knowing 8 current P12 schools will gladly follow, is something you must see through.

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Pac-12 presidents are considering buying commissioner Larry Scott out of his contract early ahead of the upcoming round of TV negotiations, according to a report Monday from John Canzano of The Oregonian.

Scott has run the conference since 2009, and all but two of the conference’s 12 presidents or chancellors have switched chairs since then.

“There’s serious talk amongst the Pac-12 CEO Group,” one high-level conference administrator told the paper, “to end his contract ahead of the expiration date to have a fighting chance to save the (conference) Networks.”

 

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On 7/6/2020 at 10:51 PM, Beau Vine said:

Pac-12 presidents are considering buying commissioner Larry Scott out of his contract early ahead of the upcoming round of TV negotiations, according to a report Monday from John Canzano of The Oregonian.

Scott has run the conference since 2009, and all but two of the conference’s 12 presidents or chancellors have switched chairs since then.

“There’s serious talk amongst the Pac-12 CEO Group,” one high-level conference administrator told the paper, “to end his contract ahead of the expiration date to have a fighting chance to save the (conference) Networks.”

 

Pac-12: Commissioner Larry Scott has tested positive for Covid. Please keep him in your prayers

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On 2/14/2020 at 6:41 AM, Thiefery said:

Seeing the Pac 12 beginning to really implode on itself and Larry Scott still leading the way...  Feels like a merger will happen between some PAC schools and of course Texas with Oklahoma.  I am hoping the Big 12 could stay, add another school or two. Let WVA go and kick out Baylor.  But with the PAC doing so bad, think the only thing that can save FOX/ESPN interests out there is for a new 16 school league.  Hope I'm wrong

Well, there would be some good sites to see, for sure...

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