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VABuckeye

The Surly Beginner Guitar Thread

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A thread for beginners and experienced players to share information, learning resources, etc and tell our stories.

I purchased a Taylor 317e a little over a year ago.  At first I was making decent progress but a couple of things happened.  The first I had control over and the second I didn't.

I was all over the place with my learning.  YouTube, Justin Guitar, Fender Play.  Whatever.  If I could click on it I probably tried it.  It didn't lead to much progression and i never felt like I was PLAYING the guitar.  The second thing that happened was that some nerve issues I had in my right arm got much worse and I was unable to practice without a lot  of pain.  I put the guitar down.  This past January I had two surgical procedures on my right arm and I'm now pain free.  I picked up the guitar again in March.

This time I've changed the way I do things.  I'm using a method called the TAC method.  It makes me focus ings on doing drills that are musical and challenging to a beginner.  The time I spend working on the guitar is productive time now.  I still get on YouTube and try to work my way through a song once in a while but I'm spending more time making clean chords and scales.  Learning to do little ditties inside the scale.  Stuff like that.

Things I know I should learn.  The fretboard.  I need to learn the notes.  As a former piano player I understand scales but until I learn the fretboard I'm reliant on someone else to show me the different scales via an online lesson.  The different iterations of chords.  Terminology.  In the pron thread there was a little discussion about how people play different chords.  This is got into sus and Drop C and other terms that quickly made me lose track of what was begin said as I didn't understand the terminology.

Please feel free to contribute to the thread if you're beginner, or whatever.  This is a place for us to share our frustrations and our small triumphs.  What works for us and what doesn't.  What may work for others but didn't for us. 

Where I am right now.  I can play several versions of E and A chords.  D, G and C as well.  I'm working on transitioning between chords and improving slowly.  I've also learned a couple of scales and I noodle inside the scales to begin working on expression.  There are also a few things from TAC that I work on daily.  Basic strumming.  A bass beat.  The blues shuffle.  I am also working on a practice plan so when I sit down with the guitar I have a purpose to what I'm doing that day.

Thanks to any and all that choose to contribute.  

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Having played a while, I'm going to drop a few things (which I've probably dropped in the guitpron thread a few times but bear repeating.

All of the things you talk about lead to the rightful conclusion that there are many paths to getting better.  I learned primarily pre-internet, so my foundations is in books.  But as we sit here today, I'm signed up to do Fender play with my son, and I'm looking at more advanced online lessons.  

There are a couple of books that I come back to over and over again.  They spoke to me, your mileage may vary, but the first one I will say that would work for everyone is this:

61iKEQ4zk7L._SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_

https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Handbook-Professional-Acoustic-Electrice/dp/0679742751/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3RL2Y0F4MPSUI&dchild=1&keywords=the+guitar+handbook&qid=1589899964&sprefix=the+guitar+%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-3

I've found it to be a good foundation for basics about guitar, playing, setup, etc., soup to nuts in one book.  There are millions of copies and you can probably find a decent used one quite easily and inexpensively.

As for an overall method, I've used this: 

61T7HWfvmLL._SX382_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

For scales, you can find those just about anywhere.  There's no one book I've used, though I have found the Ultimate Guitar app to be a good resource.   It's also a great resource for getting guitar tab if you just want to learn songs.

Good luck!

 

 

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Thanks for starting.  I'm 1 week in.  Purchased a Taylor 10 earlier this month and started trying to learn last week.   I looked at a few different online sites and read reviews in various forums etc. before staring and decided at least initially using Justin Guitar. I'll say one thing I realized is there are tons of "review" sites on the internet with links to the various companies.  GuitarTricks had a lot of positive reviews and I was planning to start there but then I realized that like the online mattress industry, all of those sites get paid if you sign up from their links.    Justin Guitar seemed to have a lot of positive feedback via various forums so I shifted there.   For those that were familiar with his site in the past, it appears he has a new "lesson plan" setup over the past few months that is still a work in progress.  He also has a song app that shows you chords, allows you to change tempo, etc. that you purchase a subscription to. The site and the app could be better integrated, but it's a work in progress and obviously starting from scratch it doesn't really matter much to me.    As expected I'm pretty terrible but the structure of his lessons and directions as to what progress you should make before you advance to the next lesson, etc. seem to make sense.   So I plan to just stick with that for now without even looking at other sites because I can see how you could pretty easily have information overload (not to mention different methods?) that it's hard to make progress.

We'll see how it goes but playing is one of those things I always wished I had learned when I was younger and I'll never get a better opportunity to start out than right now working from home (likely for at least a few more weeks).   Pretty easy to pick up guitar and have several 10-15 minutes sessions to work on stuff between calls, etc and make sure I play some daily to start hardening fingertips (as clearly that limits how much I can practice for the time being).

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This thread is a good idea.  3 neighborhood kids (10-13 yrs old) have decided to play the guitar during this time.  I've worked with the parents to get them into decent guitars and the kids have been asking me questions about different things.  I've thought about offering to have a group session with them, just to see where they are.  Then maybe work one-on-one with them if they want.  One kid plays the violin in middle school and when I showed him that the violin and mandolin were tuned the same, and then the mandolin is just the 4 strings of the guitar, flipped upside down, his eyes lit up.  It was like I could see his mind working.  Really cool to see that excitement.  

My main advice to beginnings, and I know the OP is beyond this, but it is in dealing with switching between chords.  Don't worry about fretting each note exactly as you change chords.  Keep your strumming pattern consistent.   Hell, most of the time, progressively changing the notes from one chord to the other sounds cool AF anyway.  

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Want to second "The Guitar Handbook". It would be the guitar bible.  You can think of any topic related to playing, gear, tweaking, etc... and it will either give you all the information you need or enough information to intelligently look deeper elsewhere.

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Also want to recommend Justin Guitar for those starting out.  Have seen it work well for my kids.  Most/all the beginner stuff is free, so no reason not to try it and see if his style clicks for you.

https://www.justinguitar.com/

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The great thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. You can learn a song about 10 minutes into the first lesson.

The terrible thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. A lot of guitar teaching is pretty incoherent due to the teacher’s lack of basic understanding of music (even if they are fabulous players).

If you have a piano background, it might help to sit at a piano, guitar in hand, finding notes, picking out simple tunes, and scales. Eventually the light will go on with the connection between the two. 
 

If you do this, keep in mind that guitar musical notation (not tab) usually is written so that it sounds an octave lower than written. It won’t matter if you’re just figuring out where notes are and learning the fretboard, but if you start digging out piano music and trying to make that connection, you might get confused. 

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21 minutes ago, Mole said:

The great thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. You can learn a song about 10 minutes into the first lesson.

The terrible thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. A lot of guitar teaching is pretty incoherent due to the teacher’s lack of basic understanding of music (even if they are fabulous players).

If you have a piano background, it might help to sit at a piano, guitar in hand, finding notes, picking out simple tunes, and scales. Eventually the light will go on with the connection between the two. 
 

If you do this, keep in mind that guitar musical notation (not tab) usually is written so that it sounds an octave lower than written. It won’t matter if you’re just figuring out where notes are and learning the fretboard, but if you start digging out piano music and trying to make that connection, you might get confused. 

The bolded portion is super important for beginners.  You can get going fast, BUT, there's a catch.  For people who are brand new (no music at all before), it takes from 4-6 weeks, practicing 15-20 minutes a day, to get our fingers to go where our minds know they should.  If you can get past that hump, you'll likely get hooked and play for life.  It's having the ability to overcome that initial frustration and power through that is many a beginner's downfall. 

So be the guy or gal that powers through.  

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Also in. Also, to Chad's point above, especially if you haven't picked up new hobbies as an adult - leveling up in real life is fun and also happens as a consequence of grinding it out. If you're playing, you're getting better. Especially as a beginner. If you are starting out, play a little bit every single day. Even if you're frustrated or uninspired or are hardly making noises that could be classified as musical. Play a lot if you feel like it, but at least play a little.

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A few tips from a guy who’s been a beginner guitarist for 30 years now:

Focus on learning songs you like. If you enjoy listening to it, you are more likely to put in the work to play it right. And work is how you learn new things and gain new skills. 

Once you’ve learned the basic cowboy chords and a handful of choice songs, learn: (1) barre chords (E and A form are most important); (2) the I-IV-V chord progressions (eg 12-bar blues); and (3) the minor pentatonic scale. If you know those three things plus the basic Cowboy chords, you’ll be able to piece together 95% of rock and blues music. 

When you’re ready to move on, learn the full minor scale, the major scale, and the major pentatonic. Focus on shapes, not notes. The great thing about guitar is that once you know a scale in one key, you know the same scale in EVERY key. 

If you want to learn how to play like your guitar heroes, learn their songs.

Don't cheap out on gear. That doesn’t mean rush out and buy a vintage Martin. It means invest in equipment that makes your life easy. Buy a tuner or two. Grab one of those spinner deals that makes string changes go faster. Have a tech set your guitar up so the string height is correct. And don’t buy the cheapest beginner guitar possible - especially in acoustics, the difference between $200 and $400 is huge.  You’ll have enough obstacles to overcome, and there’s no reason to be fighting your equipment along the way.

Use the internet to learn. There are tons of YouTube lesson vids that can be very very helpful. Ultimate Guitar and other places are great resources for chord charts and tablatures. 

Take lessons if you get frustrated or get in a rut.

Play with others. Form a band or start a group of players to jam with.

Play along with a recording of the song you’re learning. Not at first - you need to get the chords and changes down first. But once you do that, force yourself to play along with the album. This will force discipline on timing.

Practice. Practice practice practice. You have to put in the work. But if you’re learning songs you like, it won’t feel like work. 

 

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Also, play is important. Fundamental, routine practice is good and important, but anything new (concept or technique) should be applied through play.

Play can be improvising, writing, or learning a new tune.  We need to learn what things actually sound like through application. Learning an instrument is ultimately learning turn sounds in your imagination into sounds on the instrument. You need to be able to navigate the instrument, but there also has to be clear sounds in your imagination. Both parts take time to develop and both parts are lifetime processes.

I’d also add that playing with good time is incredibly important (and usually neglected by beginners), not just for playing with others, but in learning to manage the instrument. Playing an instrument involves a series of coordinated, complex movements. Time is the organizing factor. A metronome or drum machine is your best friend.
 

If the movements don’t happen in the right order and time, they don’t work very well. This applies to big and little things. If you can’t do something in time, it should be simplified somehow (slow down, shorten notes, remove notes, simplify the rhythm, it depends on the problem at hand) until the coordination is there.

Also, like it or not, you will develop some sort of theoretical framework for understanding music (we are all hopefully always revising our understanding). The traditional textbook version is generally the simplest and most effective framework for understanding most music you’ll run across, even if this approach to theory is jargon-filled. It’s useful to spend some time learning this; it saves time in the long run. I’ve met too many people with convoluted yet jargon-free frameworks whose progress is slowed by the way they conceive music theory. You don’t have to learn everything all at once, but it’s good to always be learning.

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33 minutes ago, Mole said:

Also, like it or not, you will develop some sort of theoretical framework for understanding music (we are all hopefully always revising our understanding). The traditional textbook version is generally the simplest and most effective framework for understanding most music you’ll run across, even if this approach to theory is jargon-filled. It’s useful to spend some time learning this; it saves time in the long run. I’ve met too many people with convoluted yet jargon-free frameworks whose progress is slowed by the way they conceive music theory. You don’t have to learn everything all at once, but it’s good to always be learning.

I wish someone had told me this about 25 years ago.  

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I remember when I groked the relationships between scales and chords.  How a chord is the subset of the notes in the scale and that wow, I can overlay this scale diagram over this chord diagram and the note patterns all line up with some notes left out in the chord.  That was like finding musical Jesus and the world of theory opened up for me.

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Learn how to do basic maintenance and a basic set-up on your guitar. 

Buy a tuner.

Buy a metronome. 

Buy more guitars regularly and post them in the Pron thread to encourage others to do the same. 

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Absolutely great advice about a metronome or something that generates a rhythm to play along with.

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My metronome hates me.  So I play along with the lessons.  The site I'm using goes through the lesson and then has it repeated in slow, medium and fast tempos to play along with.

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Play every day (even though I don't).

One of my favorite guitar players, David Grissom, says it is more important to play 15 minutes every single day than to practice for hours at one time.

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Fender Play is free for three months, no credit card required. I zipped through some of the beginner videos this evening and they seem to be pretty decent.

I’ve been playing since ‘87 or so and I realized I need to warm up more, especially my pinky.

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I used to take lessons at Charlie’s Guitar shop in Dallas. In the back lesson room was a poster of Stevie Ray in a Charlie’s guitar shop T-shirt. The old guy was wearing me out about using my pinky. One day I pointed up at the poster and reminded him that Stevie never used his pinky. He reminded me that you ain’t Stevie so use your damn pinky!

 

 

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11 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Fender Play is free for three months, no credit card required. I zipped through some of the beginner videos this evening and they seem to be pretty decent.

I’ve been playing since ‘87 or so and I realized I need to warm up more, especially my pinky.

I went ahead and signed up for it since who knows if this deal will end anytime soon.  I'm going to stick with Justin Guitar basic progression for the next 4-6 weeks at least since I assume different teachers have different methods and timelines but look forward to checking out what they have to offer once I have a better handle on the basics.

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It does a good job of getting you started with simple, basic stuff. I'd start using it since the clock on the three free months started ticking once you signed up.

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I zipped through some more Fender Play and more than anything it’s making me think about my fingering. I’m realizing I rely way too much on my middle finger and could really stand to improve my overall dexterity.

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7 pm CST, Fender Play is having a live surf guitar clinic.

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On 5/19/2020 at 11:55 AM, Mole said:

The great thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. You can learn a song about 10 minutes into the first lesson.

The terrible thing about the guitar is the low barrier to entry. A lot of guitar teaching is pretty incoherent due to the teacher’s lack of basic understanding of music (even if they are fabulous players).

If you have a piano background, it might help to sit at a piano, guitar in hand, finding notes, picking out simple tunes, and scales. Eventually the light will go on with the connection between the two. 
 

If you do this, keep in mind that guitar musical notation (not tab) usually is written so that it sounds an octave lower than written. It won’t matter if you’re just figuring out where notes are and learning the fretboard, but if you start digging out piano music and trying to make that connection, you might get confused. 

Great thread!

The OP and I are aligned in our experience.

I tend to overthink everything.  Being a high brass and piano student in the past, the guitar is difficult due to the lack of a fundamental nature to learning it.  Your comment regarding a low barrier to entry is spot on.  It's a trap!

I bought a used copy of "The Guitar Handbook" and have been lazy about looking at it.  I'm using Fender Play for now and will look at Justin.  The good news is that I've beat my fingers up enough with C and G chords that I can transition between them in two beats on an acoustic.  It's a start.

 

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I’d be interested in good resources for learning slide guitar.  Not tune open and hit all the strings for I-IV-V blues progressions, but something that works you towards being able to do a decent Duane Allman impersonation.

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18 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I’d be interested in good resources for learning slide guitar.  Not tune open and hit all the strings for I-IV-V blues progressions, but something that works you towards being able to do a decent Duane Allman impersonation.

Good luck with that.

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Alright.

I’ve always been an on-again off-again path to really learning, for me.

“Played” in high school but really it was leaning some chords and noodling and learning easy songs.

Bought my tele last year and haven’t done nearly enough with it.

Bought that Guitar Bible. Hopefully that goes somewhere this time.

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I think the best advice already offered was play with others. You may suck, but everyone has been there and understands. You can play a simple rhythm and fit in. If playing electric,  start with your amp all the way down and slowly turn it up as you get comfortable.  No one is going to judge you. They've all been there. My experience is everyone gets a kick out of you progressing. 

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11 minutes ago, Deej said:

I think the best advice already offered was play with others. You may suck, but everyone has been there and understands. You can play a simple rhythm and fit in. If playing electric,  start with your amp all the way down and slowly turn it up as you get comfortable.  No one is going to judge you. They've all been there. My experience is everyone gets a kick out of you progressing. 

You must know a lot of nice people.  I attempted to take my acoustic out in the back yard to enjoy the sunshine and work on some chords.  The husband disagreed with that notion.  The garage may be my woodshed.  He'll need to move some shit.

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The thing about learning is you have to practice standing up with your guitar slung as low as possible.

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5 hours ago, Goredho said:

I’d be interested in good resources for learning slide guitar.  Not tune open and hit all the strings for I-IV-V blues progressions, but something that works you towards being able to do a decent Duane Allman impersonation.

Oh, I can do a Duane impression. It ain’t good, but it’s an impression.

And maybe it is the high quality recording that we enjoy today. But I find a lot of what the Trucks kid does with a slide to be a little easier on my ears then Duane’s style.

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I’d be fine with resources that get you pointed in Derek Trucks direction.  Anyone here have a slide game at all? How’d you get there?  The couple times I’ve looked for resources I find a 3 minute YouTube video that tells you to:

1.  Tune to an open chord

2.  Bar the I-IV-V

3.  Legally change your name to Redbone Walker and call yourself a slide player

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I’d be interested in good resources for learning slide guitar.  Not tune open and hit all the strings for I-IV-V blues progressions, but something that works you towards being able to do a decent Duane Allman impersonation.

The only thing that gets you towards being Duane Allman is being Duane’s parents son.

But start with an open D tuning and go from there.

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The thing about learning is you have to practice standing up with your guitar slung as low as possible.

Who’s that guy moving cross the stage?
Well that must be Jimmy Page!

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Hid the slide from myself...

...good point on the standing tbone but my posture is more Skunk Baxter. 

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I picked up the guitar in 2015.  I started out with online courses - another vote for justinguitar - and noticed I was probably picking up some bad habits so I took some private lessons for over a year.  I have also picked up the bass and I play (was playing) a couple of times a month with the church praise band.  

Several things have happened while just playing the bass... I have a better command of the fret board as well as a better understanding of music theory regarding major and minor scales and chord progression and transition(walking up and down).

As far as guitar playing is concerned, I have no idea where to focus right now.  I want to build my song list, build up my lead chops, learn finger picking methods, build rhythm techniques and strumming...  

I am thinking I might just go hang out on justinguitar again and plow threw lesson plans and songs.  

 


 

 

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6 hours ago, Goredho said:

I’d be fine with resources that get you pointed in Derek Trucks direction.  Anyone here have a slide game at all? How’d you get there?  The couple times I’ve looked for resources I find a 3 minute YouTube video that tells you to:

1.  Tune to an open chord

2.  Bar the I-IV-V

3.  Legally change your name to Redbone Walker and call yourself a slide player

I got into the slide very early on.  In fact, the first solo I ever learned was the slide work from "What Is and What Should Never Be."  So that was about 7th or 8th grade.  Somewhere in there.  Then someone told me Jimmy Page used open G often, much like Keef.  So I went and got a copy of LZ III, tuned to open G, and started sounding out all those tunes.  Nowadays, you can get them in tab, but I lived in the woods and had to play with a cassette machine like some gol dern stone age hick.  In any case, doing that and trying to find the few articles here and there about slide playing in the guitar mags are what really got me dialed in on slide.  I need to do some online/video lectures though.  I'm sure my method has quite a few holes.  

One thing it took me a while to figure out is that (and this will be blood in the water to our guitpron friends) it's really helpful to have a guitar set up for slide.  The low action most guys favor for lead stuff is the exact opposite of what makes slide sound good - high action.  I bought a cheap Danelectro and that was my slide guitar.  Still is.  One day I'll buy a fancy Coodercaster, but that's probably way down the line unless someone is willing to unload one for ridiculously cheap.  

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12 minutes ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I picked up the guitar in 2015.  I started out with online courses - another vote for justinguitar - and noticed I was probably picking up some bad habits so I took some private lessons for over a year.  I have also picked up the bass and I play (was playing) a couple of times a month with the church praise band.  

Several things have happened while just playing the bass... I have a better command of the fret board as well as a better understanding of music theory regarding major and minor scales and chord progression and transition(walking up and down).

As far as guitar playing is concerned, I have no idea where to focus right now.  I want to build my song list, build up my lead chops, learn finger picking methods, build rhythm techniques and strumming...  

I am thinking I might just go hang out on justinguitar again and plow threw lesson plans and songs.  

 


 

 

This is 100% true for me as well.  Started playing bass with a bad about five years ago and my playing on both bass and guitar has improved considerably.  They complement each other well, which should come to no surprise to anyone.  

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43 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I got into the slide very early on.  In fact, the first solo I ever learned was the slide work from "What Is and What Should Never Be."  So that was about 7th or 8th grade.  Somewhere in there.  Then someone told me Jimmy Page used open G often, much like Keef.  So I went and got a copy of LZ III, tuned to open G, and started sounding out all those tunes.  Nowadays, you can get them in tab, but I lived in the woods and had to play with a cassette machine like some gol dern stone age hick.  In any case, doing that and trying to find the few articles here and there about slide playing in the guitar mags are what really got me dialed in on slide.  I need to do some online/video lectures though.  I'm sure my method has quite a few holes.  

One thing it took me a while to figure out is that (and this will be blood in the water to our guitpron friends) it's really helpful to have a guitar set up for slide.  The low action most guys favor for lead stuff is the exact opposite of what makes slide sound good - high action.  I bought a cheap Danelectro and that was my slide guitar.  Still is.  One day I'll buy a fancy Coodercaster, but that's probably way down the line unless someone is willing to unload one for ridiculously cheap.  

Thanks for your experience building up some slide skills.

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Am I wrong or can you take that opening strum from the Isbell song right into the beginning of Angie?

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4 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:


The only thing that gets you towards being Duane Allman is being Duane’s parents son.

But start with an open D tuning and go from there.

the important thing to note is that this means you need another guitar

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Am I wrong or can you take that opening strum from the Isbell song right into the beginning of Angie?

wait I'm trying to keep up - which Isbell song?

Also, kinda fucked up that this = "back in the day" but looking up tablature on the internet as one did back in the day always kinda sucked. Most of the time they are poorly written and not at all accurate, and you have to figure out how to play what they're telling you to play before you can tell if it is any good, and that is hard if it is already enough of a challenge at your skill level to just do the first part. I have found that youtube videos/lessons on songs are often great and also you can screen for ones that are dumb/wrong by just watching.

I really like this guy - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTCS78UpWHrkHhS2-2oX6ag

He has a lot of lessons for Isbell songs that are really good, as well as others, and he does a good job of explaining and expanding. He'll explain the part, talk about how it varies throughout the song, show you how he's doing it, I think he throws up little images - good shit.

Oh, he did some general lessons

 

Edited by Celery Man

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