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Patrick Bateman

2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

Besides that.... you don't offer a NBA Championship coach, whatever the context, a 3 year deal.  The Lakers are a managed by morons.

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3 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

If you are lue, how do you look yourself in the mirror after turning down that offer. I assumed it was pretty much established that the only reason he was even a head coach was because of LeBron, the only reason he is a "chpionship coach" is because of LeBron, and he was fired a week or two after the season started (because LeBron wasn't there).  Then you get another shot at a head coaching gig probably 100% because LeBron asked for it, meanwhile your name has not been attached to any other jobs.  And he turned  it down.  It's possible lue is never a NBA head coach again.  

Unless Lue has been an idiot with his money (entirely possible), he doesn't need the job.  More likely, he figures the Lakers will get desperate and give him close to what he's asking because they can't afford to piss off LeBron because he's all they've really got thanks to their brilliant ownership. 

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Posted (edited)

Lebron should legit ask for a trade. That organization is pretty much as bad as the Knicks right now.

 

I wonder if Laker fans have realized yet that teams won't trade with them because they have nothing to offer....

Edited by Pam Cummings

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9 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Besides that.... you don't offer a NBA Championship coach, whatever the context, a 3 year deal.  The Lakers are a managed by morons.

How many years did they give Luke 4 or 5?

 

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I'm going to laugh manically when the Lakers hire Kidd and continue to suck for the foreseeable future, look how much better Milwaukee became once they canned his ass. Surely it's not a coincidence. The NBA lottery and combine begin shortly and the Lakers don't have a coach, staff or president.

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It sounds to me like the lakers just need to clean house.  I'd even trade lebron if possible at this point.  They have LA and a shitload of cap space next year with decent young pieces in ball, ingram, kuzma, hart.  I'm not sure how the cap holds work but wouldn't they have like $80M of cap space left over?  You bring in AD and dump lebron and you are probably going to get at least one big time guy and maybe 2.  Instant contender and you can hire whatever fucking coach you want.  Decent fillers, big names/skills, no more "fire/trade this guy or I'll half ass it" attitudes.

Butler, KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay.  All out there to get and the Lakers have a shitload of cap.  Seems to me the only thing that would keep them from rebounding to being a top 5 team next year would be lebron and whichever coach he wants them to hire.  Just move on and become great again.

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Wait, the "other" Rambis in this is Kurt's wife??????????????????   Dafuq???   When/how the fuck did she get to a decision making level for the Lakers???   I've always said LBJ not winning a title there would be a failure but that org is a fucking dumpster fire right now.   He should get the fuck out of there ASAP

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10 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

It sounds to me like the lakers just need to clean house.  I'd even trade lebron if possible at this point.  They have LA and a shitload of cap space next year with decent young pieces in ball, ingram, kuzma, hart.  I'm not sure how the cap holds work but wouldn't they have like $80M of cap space left over?  You bring in AD and dump lebron and you are probably going to get at least one big time guy and maybe 2.  Instant contender and you can hire whatever fucking coach you want.  Decent fillers, big names/skills, no more "fire/trade this guy or I'll half ass it" attitudes.

Butler, KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay.  All out there to get and the Lakers have a shitload of cap.  Seems to me the only thing that would keep them from rebounding to being a top 5 team next year would be lebron and whichever coach he wants them to hire.  Just move on and become great again.

Given what we are seeing from management why would any FA sign there?  Also, they would need to trade for AD.  He has one yr left on his deal.

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No doubt. You’ve got to clean the front office too. But having all of that money is a good place to start with culture change from a player standpoint. If you’re going to implode, now is the time to do it, not when you’re capped out. 

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59 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

No doubt. You’ve got to clean the front office too. But having all of that money is a good place to start with culture change from a player standpoint. If you’re going to implode, now is the time to do it, not when you’re capped out. 

Rumors are (Stephen A Smith) that some are counseling to trade Lebron now.  That would be 3/4 years of strategy blown to shit.  That would be stupid because they'd basically waste all those high picks on their rookie contracts especially with Ingram not guaranteed to be back next season.  I think you get a splash coaching hire who can work with Lebron, you fire Pelinka in a few months and get a real basketball mind installed as GM.  Not Rambis.  Not Magic.  You call Jerry West and see if you can repair the relationship..... even if you have to beg.  Otherwise, a real GM, a real coach, and you try and land Kawhi or AD in some way.  If not, Jimmy Butler is a decent consolation prize.

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Rumors are (Stephen A Smith) that some are counseling to trade Lebron now.  That would be 3/4 years of strategy blown to shit.  That would be stupid because they'd basically waste all those high picks on their rookie contracts especially with Ingram not guaranteed to be back next season.  I think you get a splash coaching hire who can work with Lebron, you fire Pelinka in a few months and get a real basketball mind installed as GM.  Not Rambis.  Not Magic.  You call Jerry West and see if you can repair the relationship..... even if you have to beg.  Otherwise, a real GM, a real coach, and you try and land Kawhi or AD in some way.  If not, Jimmy Butler is a decent consolation prize.

 

I just don't think you're going to get those guys with lebron there at this point.  Is it not obvious that front offices destroy themselves over him at this point?  He kills coaches too.  Phil isn't walking through that door and neither is pat riley.  There isn't a coach or GM in the league other than West that could come in and "control" the culture.  Neither are going to LA.  It is also important to note that other than Chris Bosh, no other big time free agents have ever gone to play with lebron.  And that deal was orchestrated by one of two men in the league that can control the culture and he isn't going to LA.

That leads us to the question, are we sure that any FA's really want to go play in LA with Lebron controlling all of the strings?  Butler is a great prize, but he doesn't like to be told what to do.  Kemba is a wild card because he's never been free.  AD could go.  Kawhi might end up in the finals with toronto and if KD is down he might end up with a championship.  Klay is rumored to be more interested in LAC than LAL.  Who knows where KD will be but I haven't heard anything about him wanting to play with the only player that might be on equal footing as him.  That leaves Kyrie, who seems to want to be the #2 guy again and has patched things up with Lebron.  So great, you have cavs 2.0 in LA with a shit coach and no leadership in the front office.  That won't fly in the west, and it wouldn't even fly in the east anymore.

So, if you assume that you have a 25% chance of landing a FA to pair with lebron or you can dump him and definitely get 2 big FA's and maybe 3 then do you do it?

**As a side note, it would be funny to see lebron get traded.  That would definitely tarnish his legacy.

Edited by Jhawk

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Rozier apparently would like to leave Boston.... lol.

The Celtics are all of sudden, right on the edge of the abyss, with their leader recovering from a heart attack.

Quote

The Celtics entered the season with championship expectations with the return of Irving and Gordon Hayward and their pairing alongside the likes of Rozier, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.

Instead, Rozier suggested that players were hesitant to sacrifice personal numbers to embrace a role that would better propel the team toward their goal. Celtics coach Brad Stevens admitted the 2018 season was "the most trying" year he has had as a coach. 

Rozier added that he didn't think his level of play and his playing time added up this season. He went from being Boston's starting point guard last postseason to averaging just 6.4 points and 18 minutes per game behind Irving during this year's playoff run.

"A lot of things weren’t fair to me, but it’s not about me," Rozier said. "That’s why I don’t b---- and complain,” Rozier said. "I don't give a f--- what nobody say, I sacrificed the most out of anybody. I'm a top point guard in this league. I feel like it's a fresh start, whether I'm here or whether I'm gone."

Rozier declined to comment on the Celtics' ability to match offers he might get in the offseason. When asked what he's looking for on the team he is with next year, Rozier remained candid.

"I’m looking forward to a family," Rozier said. "A team that treats me like a family and that’s gonna invest in me all the way."

 

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15 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I just don't think you're going to get those guys with lebron there at this point.  Is it not obvious that front offices destroy themselves over him at this point?  He kills coaches too.  Phil isn't walking through that door and neither is pat riley.  There isn't a coach or GM in the league other than West that could come in and "control" the culture.  Neither are going to LA.  It is also important to note that other than Chris Bosh, no other big time free agents have ever gone to play with lebron.  And that deal was orchestrated by one of two men in the league that can control the culture and he isn't going to LA.

That leads us to the question, are we sure that any FA's really want to go play in LA with Lebron controlling all of the strings?  Butler is a great prize, but he doesn't like to be told what to do.  Kemba is a wild card because he's never been free.  AD could go.  Kawhi might end up in the finals with toronto and if KD is down he might end up with a championship.  Klay is rumored to be more interested in LAC than LAL.  Who knows where KD will be but I haven't heard anything about him wanting to play with the only player that might be on equal footing as him.  That leaves Kyrie, who seems to want to be the #2 guy again and has patched things up with Lebron.  So great, you have cavs 2.0 in LA with a shit coach and no leadership in the front office.  That won't fly in the west, and it wouldn't even fly in the east anymore.

So, if you assume that you have a 25% chance of landing a FA to pair with lebron or you can dump him and definitely get 2 big FA's and maybe 3 then do you do it?

**As a side note, it would be funny to see lebron get traded.  That would definitely tarnish his legacy.

Can you "definitely" get 2 big FAs though?   Ya know bird in the hand beats...........

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The Celtics have really fallen off a cliff this year. Last year that had so much promise in Brown and Tatum, that they wouldn't include them in talks for Kawhi (holy hindsight Batman!). It's incredible how they have held on to so many players as their stocks decline, and will likely be left without much to work with next year if Kyrie departs.

They still have at lot tied up in Hayward and Horford next season, and a handful of first round pick salaries, that total up to 101 million if Kyrie opts out. I think they have to package some of those guys in a big trade for an AD or some other Allstar to try and salvage what they have left. The Pelicans may be able to snag a king's ransom for AD after all if the Celtics panic after falling short of their expectations again. 

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18 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

The Celtics have really fallen off a cliff this year. Last year that had so much promise in Brown and Tatum, that they wouldn't include them in talks for Kawhi (holy hindsight Batman!). It's incredible how they have held on to so many players as their stocks decline, and will likely be left without much to work with next year if Kyrie departs.

They still have at lot tied up in Hayward and Horford next season, and a handful of first round pick salaries, that total up to 101 million if Kyrie opts out. I think they have to package some of those guys in a big trade for an AD or some other Allstar to try and salvage what they have left. The Pelicans may be able to snag a king's ransom for AD after all if the Celtics panic after falling short of their expectations again. 

Lakers and Celtics ran into similar problems, they bet their young piece’s value would inflate this season with good play and they’d be able to mix and match and keep some.  Went the opposite way although to varying degrees.  It was happening to Philly too but they decided to cash out on Harris and Butler.  

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57 minutes ago, d2o said:

Can you "definitely" get 2 big FAs though?   Ya know bird in the hand beats...........

You're 100% right there, but I'm not convinced that they're going to even get 1 other free agent of Kevin Love's caliber with lebron.  I really think that other players don't want to play with him unless they are C grade guys that can get in good with him and get a big contract because he likes them.  That's why I made the point about Phil, West, Riley.  Those guys would look at his demands and put up their resumes and say "get on the court and play, leave the strategy/coaching to me."  I think the only possible FA they are in the mix for would be Kyrie because he knows what he is getting into.  That doesn't really move the needle for the lakers in terms of competing for a championship.  And why else would you pay two guys a max contract unless you thought you could win it all?  Also, would Kyrie go back to lebron?  I think he would but what if he could never compete for a title with lebron?  If he knew that then would he go?

I think they're players for AD, KD, and Kawhi (if he doesn't get to the championship) if they get rid of lebron.  I think they land PG13 in a few years too if they don't have lebron.  Obviously Lebron is in a different stratosphere, but he has that melo stink to him.  Everyone loves him and thinks he's great.... they just don't want to play with him because of how he controls a team/coach/front office.

Once again, you are 100% right about bird in the hand, but I think that part of cleaning up the drama is getting rid of the biggest queen in the league, Lebron.

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I can’t believe I thought Tatum could ever be a top ten player in this league. I’m an idiot. A huge, dumb idiot.

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Posted (edited)

The celts are the perfect example of why you need a good locker room to win at the highest level. All the talent in the world doesn’t mean shit when one or two guys don’t want to play Hard with each other. 

Edited by Jhawk

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Bill Simmons shared a funny rumor on his podcast today. Said the Lue/Lakers deal fell through because Kyrie is coming to LA and the two of them don’t get along or something.

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11 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Bill Simmons shared a funny rumor on his podcast today. Said the Lue/Lakers deal fell through because Kyrie is coming to LA and the two of them don’t get along or something.

That's the speculation today. 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

Fans are fucking idiots

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49 minutes ago, d2o said:

Fans are fucking idiots

Lakers fans are in their own unique class.

 

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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Lakers fans are in their own unique class.

 

Meh, they just get more airtime than most fan bases.

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Posted (edited)

I'd have sold everything I own and given all the money to Trump's re-election campaign if he offered Draymond to NK in exchange for nuke concessions.

 

Edited by Message Board User

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Hilarious thought of trading Lebrun for draft picks, and his absence makes LAL more appealing to sign KD and/or Kawhi and/or whoever and become a legit top 3 in the West while Lebron is missing the playoffs elsewhere. 

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26 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Hilarious thought of trading Lebrun for draft picks, and his absence makes LAL more appealing to sign KD and/or Kawhi and/or whoever and become a legit top 3 in the West while Lebron is missing the playoffs elsewhere. 

The Lakers issues go a lot deeper than the players on the roster.

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I hope all the trade lebron talk is just stupid internet jokesters.  The Lakers would never sign a top level player for a decade if they trade lebron after one season.  

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Bron and KI with Kuzma would make for a good trio. Bye Bye Lonzo then.  They'll make the playoffs then.  

I'd like LAC to get Kawhi too, making the balance of the East concentrated into Philly and MIL for a good long time.

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Are the Lakers going to give Kidd a new knife that he'll eventually use to stab Vogel in the back?  Or is he going to use the one he's had during his entire playing and coaching career?

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4 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Why didn't they just hire Kidd again?

spilled his drink on Jeannie during his interview

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Why didn't they just hire Kidd again?

Linda Rambis didn't like his suit.

When Frank Vogel is the best the Lakers can do, the sports world is a better place.

Edited by Brothahorn

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Any thoughts on the Westbrook trade rumors?  Anyone ballsy enough to do that?  One thing I read had him going to Phoenix for a (presumably) top 3 pick and some players.  I assume they'd take Morant from Murray State.

Personally, I'd take that.  Westbrook is getting older and declining fairly rapidly and his contract is a millstone.  OKC still has good pieces aside from him.

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7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Any thoughts on the Westbrook trade rumors?  Anyone ballsy enough to do that?  One thing I read had him going to Phoenix for a (presumably) top 3 pick and some players.  I assume they'd take Morant from Murray State.

Personally, I'd take that.  Westbrook is getting older and declining fairly rapidly and his contract is a millstone.  OKC still has good pieces aside from him.

Of course you would because the rumor was floated by an OKC radio station and it's not a rumor as much as wishful thinking.  I doubt very much they're going to move him as his contract is an albatross and franchise killer and PG stayed in OKC to play with his new bestie, Russ.  Should they?  Sure, a player who's dominance is reliant on other worldly physical skills entering his 30's and has no self awareness as a player and continues his ball dominant ways.  No thank you.  Doubt he goes anywhere.  This is more how other feel about him and his contract.

 

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Posted (edited)

I can see OKC going both routes... trade and rebuild or keep him and pay him for his entire career.  The first would piss the fans off big time around here.  I think the OKC fans know they are 20 years away from getting a ring going through 2-3 rebuilds in that time until they hit the magic formulas again and end up with another lineup like KD/JH/RW.  But that doesn't mean the OKC fans are ready to wander the woods for 20 years.  Living in Tulsa, I get the sense that they would just enjoy good basketball even if their ceiling is the second round of the playoffs.

I think mixing up the roster is the right thing to do, but that doesn't mean it's going to be received well.  RW is the type of player that won't come home for his jersey retirement if you trade him against his will, and sending him to phoenix isn't going to get him closer to a championship so you have to think that would be against his will.  Westbrook isn't going to win OKC shit but he is a great guard to build your franchise history on.  You want his jersey in the rafters so other players can envision seeing their jersey in the rafters.

Presti would really be stepping out on a limb to trade him, but Presti should make the move if its there.  His worst case scenario is that he has a job in 3 seconds if he gets fired.  Given what he has to work with in oklahoma, he might be the best GM in the league, certainly in the top 5.  I don't know that West or Riley have the same success presti has had if you put them in OKC.  That being said, Devin booker doesn't get OKC any closer to winning a playoff series so unless they are just stocking up on picks then why even make the trade?

Edited by Jhawk

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1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

Given what he has to work with in oklahoma, he might be the best GM in the league, certainly in the top 5.  I don't know that West or Riley have the same success presti has had if you put them in OKC.  

What? He had three MVPs on his roster and decided to hitch his wagon to Serge fucking Ibaka.

Aside from that, he has failed to put the complimentary pieces around Westbrook to maximize his talents and get out of the first round. They are capped out with Westbrook, Adams and George and don't have much youth in the pipeline. How on earth is this team going to get any better? 

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9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

What? He had three MVPs on his roster and decided to hitch his wagon to Serge fucking Ibaka.

Oh, and he willingly took on Carmelo Anthony's albatross of a deal, even though everyone on the planet knew it was doomed for failure. He had to perform a minor miracle to dump it and only take on Schroeder's terrible deal and doom them to luxury tax hell for the foreseeable future in the process. Other than that, he's been spectacular.

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Sam Presti has been good when he's been able to draft lottery picks.  He also did a good job in selling PG (along with Russ) on staying in a small market.  From there, he's been mediocre to poor including selecting run of the mill or shitty head coaches.  So, he's a mixed bag.  Not a great GM but solid.

 

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Posted (edited)

You guys are right, but he is always looking to make his team better, which is more than 90% of the GMs seem to be doing more than once a year.  He also has been able to move players thought to be untradeable pretty well.  No one thought oladipo or Kanter could ever be moved with their contracts and he turned them into PG13 and Melo.  Melo was always going to be an abortion but Kanter had years on his deal. 

The harden deal gets a worse rating than it should.  At that time they were adamant about not paying taxes.  He kept the two guys he felt would stick around the longest and almost got to a championship with them.  If your budget is slashed then you have to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.  KD was never going to be a lifer in OKC so that's not really something you can knock Presti for.  Even if he would have traded westbrook to satisfy KD, KD would eventually leave for a championship, which they aren't going to get in OKC.

Regarding coaches, I'd say his retention of coaches is worse than his hiring decisions.  Maybe me thinking he is a top 5 GM says more about the GM talent pool than it says about Presti.  Paxon certainly isn't winning a front office of the year award.  Morey, West, Riley, Buford, Ainge are the top execs.  Aside from that, there is a big drop off.  All of those guys have a much better market than OKC to work in as well.

Edited by Jhawk

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3 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

What? He had three MVPs on his roster and decided to hitch his wagon to Serge fucking Ibaka.

Aside from that, he has failed to put the complimentary pieces around Westbrook to maximize his talents and get out of the first round. They are capped out with Westbrook, Adams and George and don't have much youth in the pipeline. How on earth is this team going to get any better? 

Kinda this.  While Presti has been masterful at managing star contracts, he's below average at the 4-12 roster spots even dating back to the early days.  He likes lanky defenders that can guard multiple positions and that's fine but the ones he finds have zero offensive skills.  You can have 2-3 stars on your team but they're not each going to score 30 points per game.  You need 20-30 points from the rest of the roster.  Last season the media focus was on Russ and PG but meanwhile, the supporting cast was so bad that Corey Brewer was the best among them and he got waived by a bad Laker team and no one picked him up.  This season has been marginally better but the problem persists.  He's got Nerlens Noel and Andre Roberson on the same roster for God's sake.

He does get a bad wrap for the Harden trade.  I heard Kendrick Perkins being interviewed recently and even said they had no idea Harden was going to be THAT good and he say him in practice every day.

As for Westbrook's contract, there's always a team dumb enough to take on a contract like that.  Take the Knicks for example.

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