The US and Korea

[Mojo Hand 4580]

25 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

By starving its citizens to fund a massive military and nuclear arms development 

Which we're in the process of validating. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

“We are going to have a Summit and the United States is going to pay for it!”

-Kim Jong Un

[Johnny Sack 8397]

How about this proposal:

We ship over billions of dollars in cash. They put everything away and swear not to touch it. They can keep enriching uranium but only to a certain levels. There will be tests to prove the enrichment levels. They will send in the samples themselves. They can continue research and development. Their military sites are off limits to any inspections. They can keep testing their missiles with no recourse.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

No, but I'd take the actual terms of the Iran deal. 

[Skyline 325]

There's another medallion now. This one's from Singapore commemorating the talks. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, but I'd take the actual terms of the Iran deal. 

So you’re the one?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 hours ago, Skyline said:

There's another medallion now. This one's from Singapore commemorating the talks. 

I think I should just strike one up showing Donald tossing Lil' Kim out of a rasslin' ring with the back showing a Trump hotel with a "stay two nights, third night free" offer. 

[RayDog 682]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think I should just strike one up showing Donald tossing Lil' Kim out of a rasslin' ring with the back showing a Trump hotel with a "stay two nights, third night free" offer. 

 Do it as sumo wrestling.

[TDunk 590]

10 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

How about this proposal:

We ship over billions of dollars in cash. They put everything away and swear not to touch it. They can keep enriching uranium but only to a certain levels. There will be tests to prove the enrichment levels. They will send in the samples themselves. They can continue research and development. Their military sites are off limits to any inspections. They can keep testing their missiles with no recourse.

 

[Anastasis 23191]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-06/mystery-cia-officer-thrust-into-spotlight-as-korea-summit-looms

 

 

Mystery CIA Officer Thrust Into Spotlight as Korea Summit Looms

By 

Nick Wadhams

June 6, 2018, 6:08 PM CDT

•  
  Andrew Kim has joined Trump, Pompeo in key negotiations
•  
  Kim is known as the ‘grim reaper’ by some for hawkish views

The lightning diplomacy between the U.S. and North Korea before next week’s historic summit has thrust a little-known CIA officer into an uncomfortably public role as a key intermediary in talks between the two adversaries.

After years working on North Korea at the Central Intelligence Agency, Andrew Kim has been thrust into the spotlight accompanying Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in key meetings with Pyongyang officials. He took part in President Donald Trump’s Oval Office meeting with a senior North Korean envoy last week and has helped prepare the president for his June 12 summit with Kim Jong Un in Singapore.

 

The unusual public role has given Kim, who was raised in South Korea, extraordinary influence over the administration’s approach to the summit and the North Korean nuclear threat more broadly. Just as Pompeo has become Trump’s right-hand man on the Korean talks, twice meeting with Kim Jong Un this year, Andrew Kim has found himself in a similar role for the secretary of state.

 

“He is in effect the connective tissue right now across the dialogues with the North Koreans,” said Rexon Ryu, a partner at the Asia Group and former White House official and Pentagon chief of staff. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the reality is Andy is perhaps the most influential player right now."

 

Trump to Insist Kim Make First Move in Form of Nuclear Timeline

Kim so far has been seen, but not heard, in his new role. But according to half a dozen people who have followed his work, he has been involved in almost all levels of the government strategy toward North Korea. His elevation has pushed seasoned diplomats and policy-makers to the sidelines, an unusual move that breaks with decades of precedent in confronting North Korea’s nuclear threat.

As a fluent Korean speaker who became the CIA’s station chief in Seoul, he gained the trust of senior officials on both sides of the border. Since returning to Washington, he has also had access to the secretive channel that the CIA maintained with Pyongyang during the Obama and Trump administrations.

Mike Pompeo and Andrew Kim, both at right, meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, in Pyongyang, on May 9.

Source: KCNA via AP

Kim first gained public attention when North Korean state media ran a photograph of him in Pompeo’s meeting with Kim Jong Un in May. An Associated Press photograph was later disseminated showing him on the tarmac when Pompeo landed in Pyongyang on that trip.

Another photo, taken at a dinner Pompeo and his party had with North Korean officials on the same visit, shows Kim sitting at a table laden with food, right next to Kim Yong Chol, the top adviser to Kim Jong Un who would later meet Pompeo and then Trump in New York and Washington.

Read a QuickTake on how Kim Jong Un and Trump differ on denuclearization

A Trump administration official who asked not to be identified discussing Kim said the CIA agent had used his Korean language skills during Pompeo’s meetings to make sure that North Korean translators were accurately conveying messages between Pompeo and the North Korean leaders. But the official emphasized that Kim has done far more than serve as translator, using his decades of knowledge to help the administration divine North Korea’s intent heading into the Singapore summit.

The CIA declined to make Kim available for an interview and refused to discuss any details of his history beyond describing him as a veteran. Likewise, several people who know Kim refused to talk about him given the secret nature of his work and the tenuous state of the negotiations with North Korea.

‘Really Excellent’

James Clapper, the former director of national intelligence in the Obama administration, waved off questions about Kim during an interview in Washington earlier this week, then relented just a bit.

“He’s excellent, he’s really excellent,” Clapper said. “He’s very realistic about North Korea.”

Mike Pompeo, left, and CIA official Andrew Kim, second from left, have dinner with Kim Yong Chol, in New York.

Source: U.S. State Department

Born in South Korea, Kim briefly attended the prestigious Seoul High School, alma mater of the current head of South Korea’s national intelligence service, Suh Hoon, according to one of the people who knows him. He is also a relative of Chung Eui-yong, the South Korean national security adviser. The newspaper Chosun Ilbo reported in March that Chung is a cousin of Kim’s mother.

Kim had spent a career in the agency and retired after working as station chief in Seoul. He was then brought back to lead the Korea Mission Center, a body that Pompeo set up in May 2017 when he was still CIA director. According to a person familiar with Kim’s role, Pompeo picked Kim with the advice of his deputy at the time, Gina Haspel. Haspel now leads the CIA after Pompeo’s move to the State Department.

‘Grim Reaper’

Since his public outing, Kim has taken on revered status in the Korean media, drawing attention in part for his gray hair. National broadcaster KBS said he’s come to be known as the “grim reaper” for what it described as his hawkish views.

Pompeo’s trust in Kim now extends so deeply that the secretary has included him in nearly all his meetings on the issue -- whether with North Korean leaders or with Trump. He helped brief the president directly as the White House prepares for the Singapore summit and will join the U.S. delegation on the trip, according to one U.S. official.

According to people familiar with the intelligence community’s thinking on North Korea, Kim is likely taking a more skeptical tone to the North Korean government’s pronouncements, providing a counterbalance to a president who seems intent on making a deal regardless of the cost.

“The North Korean side regards diplomacy as war by other means,” said Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute. “The North Korean government doesn’t do ‘win-win,’ it doesn’t do ‘getting to yes.”’

Hardest of Targets

Such a prominent role for an intelligence officer has raised eyebrows -- even among former intelligence officers -- given Kim’s lack of policy experience and the suddenly prominent role he’s playing at the very heart of the debate over policy.

“It does seem unusual,” said Bruce Klingner, the former CIA deputy division chief for Korea and now a fellow at the Heritage Foundation. “Just as the policy community isn’t supposed to infect the intelligence community, the intel community provides information to enable policy makers to make the best informed decisions possible but are not supposed to provide advice.”

Still, Klingner said Kim’s participation and deep knowledge of North Korea’s motivations could be invaluable. “We referred to North Korea as the hardest of the hard targets,” he said of his time in the CIA. “It’s extremely difficult to get good information.”

— With assistance by Jennifer Jacobs, Kanga Kong, Kevin Cirilli, and Margaret Talev

[Mojo Hand 4580]

The summit has almost arrived.   Both Trump and Kim are now in the same country.  No matter what happens, it'll be historic. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

Pulling for the asteroid 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

 

[Caracara 41]

our allies host us military bases

[scottsins 1921]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:23 PM, Johnny Sack said:

How about this proposal:

We ship over billions of dollars in cash. They put everything away and swear not to touch it. They can keep enriching uranium but only to a certain levels. There will be tests to prove the enrichment levels. They will send in the samples themselves. They can continue research and development. Their military sites are off limits to any inspections. They can keep testing their missiles with no recourse.

I'm hoping this, or something similar happens, so that I can witness the mental gymnastics of Drumpf and his die-hard supporters engage in, in order to explain it was the "best deal ever".

[David Dennison 17657]

Did we win yet?

[Anastasis 23191]

1 hour ago, scottsins said:

I'm hoping this, or something similar happens, so that I can witness the mental gymnastics of Drumpf and his die-hard supporters engage in, in order to explain it was the "best deal ever".

The safest bet in the house is that no matter what the outcome this evening is, there's gonna be gymnastics in the aftermath. 

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

Reports there will be a 1 on 1 meeting with only translators in the room. Whyyyyyyyy is that a good idea? Anyone have confidence Trump understands foreign policy in Asia, US goals in the region, or that he adequately prepared?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

Elections have consequences 

[Anastasis 23191]

18 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Reports there will be a 1 on 1 meeting with only translators in the room. Whyyyyyyyy is that a good idea? Anyone have confidence Trump understands foreign policy in Asia, US goals in the region, or that he adequately prepared?

I read that the meeting would start with a 1:1 and then the aides would be brought in for the policy discussion. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Anastasis

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Elections have consequences 

One of which ought to be that the person receiving the most votes wins the election. 

[Chuckie Finster 22252]

In case anyone is still trying to insist that the US agreeing to this meeting does nothing to alter the perception of North Korea:

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, the man who has held Asia on the brink of nuclear war for years, was loudly cheered and celebrated as he made his way around Singapore on a night out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-goes-out-in-singapore-trump-summit-2018-6

KJU is already the big winner, regardless of what happens tomorrow.

[Brisketexan 103139]

15 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

In case anyone is still trying to insist that the US agreeing to this meeting does nothing to alter the perception of North Korea:

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, the man who has held Asia on the brink of nuclear war for years, was loudly cheered and celebrated as he made his way around Singapore on a night out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-goes-out-in-singapore-trump-summit-2018-6

KJU is already the big winner, regardless of what happens tomorrow.

We've legitimized a man who is perhaps the most corrupt, inhuman dictator of the past 50 years.

WINNING!

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've legitimized a man who is perhaps the most corrupt, inhuman dictator of the past 50 years.

WINNING!

Trump's only been on the job for a year-and-a-half. Give him time. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've legitimized a man who is perhaps the most corrupt, inhuman dictator of the past 50 years.

WINNING!

"honorable" 

[David Dennison 17657]

So North Korea is going to once again make a bunch of promises that they don't intend to keep, but this time they get the honor of being placed on an equal footing with the president of the United States, with all of the pomp and circumstance that goes with a summit.

Donald Trump is smrt.

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So North Korea is going to once again make a bunch of promises that they don't intend to keep, but this time they get the honor of being placed on an equal footing with the president of the United States, with all of the pomp and circumstance that goes with a summit.

Donald Trump is smrt.

Hold on. I can’t hear you over this woman in a NK prison being forced to drown her baby

[Caracara 41]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've legitimized a man who is perhaps the most corrupt, inhuman dictator of the past 50 years.

WINNING!

...And Un is only 35 years old.

Maybe we can help make sure his kid isn't terrorizing the world in 30. break the cycle.  Or maybe we can help all those Koreans in squalor have a better life,

[David Dennison 17657]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

...And Un is only 35 years old.

Maybe we can help make sure his kid isn't terrorizing the world in 30. break the cycle.  Or maybe we can help all those Koreans in squalor have a better life,

When asked about why he didn't bring up North Korea's record of human rights violations, the president responded, "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

MAGA

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

12 minutes ago, Caracara said:

...And Un is only 35 years old.

Maybe we can help make sure his kid isn't terrorizing the world in 30. break the cycle.  Or maybe we can help all those Koreans in squalor have a better life,

I don't think you understand China's role in the N. Korea situation. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8780]

when does our chief foreign officer of peace Dennis Rodman meet back up with Un?

[Caracara 41]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

When asked about why he didn't bring up North Korea's record of human rights violations, the president responded, "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

MAGA

so do you?  Trump is being up front.  but he doesn't have time to make a list for you.

Ever seen the video of Gaddafi's death, after he disarmed and cooperated with us and our allies?  Now look at Libya. 

I'll get back out of y'all's way.  carry on

[Caracara 41]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I don't think you understand China's role in the N. Korea situation. 

do tell.  You've proved to have a deep understanding of asia. I'm not even sure what you're doing here. You should be in singapore or manning the asian desk at the WSJ

[hayden_horn 11311]

55 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

In case anyone is still trying to insist that the US agreeing to this meeting does nothing to alter the perception of North Korea:

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, the man who has held Asia on the brink of nuclear war for years, was loudly cheered and celebrated as he made his way around Singapore on a night out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-goes-out-in-singapore-trump-summit-2018-6

KJU is already the big winner, regardless of what happens tomorrow.

this is the strangest dynamic at play here. we know this guy is a ruthless and cruel killer and the head of a rogue state that actively oppresses his own people in a very brutal way. but people suddenly forget all that? how is that possible? how is anyone outside of north korean compelled cheering actually cheering this fuckstick?

[Caracara 41]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

this is the strangest dynamic at play here. we know this guy is a ruthless and cruel killer and the head of a rogue state that actively oppresses his own people in a very brutal way. but people suddenly forget all that? how is that possible? how is anyone outside of north korean compelled cheering actually cheering this fuckstick?

Great answers are forthcoming, because luckily we have posters on this very thread who understand the Asian mentality and life in an insecure part of the world, under the shadow of nuclear threat.

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

do tell.  You've proved to have a deep understanding of asia. I'm not even sure what you're doing here. You should be in singapore or manning the asian desk at the WSJ

Now I'm certain you don't understand China's role in the N. Korea situation. 

[Caracara 41]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Now I'm certain you don't understand China's role in the N. Korea situation. 

uh huh.  At least now you're certain. 

[David Dennison 17657]

20 minutes ago, Caracara said:

so do you?  Trump is being up front.  but he doesn't have time to make a list for you.

Ever seen the video of Gaddafi's death, after he disarmed and cooperated with us and our allies?  Now look at Libya. 

I'll get back out of y'all's way.  carry on

I think Trump is getting played. Badly. There is no reason to place North Korea on an equal footing with the United States. He's giving Kim everything he wants and getting nothing in return but a bunch of promises that won't be kept. He could have accomplished that without elevating a murderous dictator to a spot on the world stage.

[Caracara 41]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I think Trump is getting played. Badly. There is no reason to place North Korea on an equal footing with the United States. He's giving Kim everything he wants and getting nothing in return but a bunch of promises that won't be kept. He could have accomplished that without elevating a murderous dictator to a spot on the world stage.

There's a never-trump argument for any eventuality. Watching CNN, in a span of 20 minutes I heard your argument, and then heard that if Trump "scuttles the deal" after dear-leader acted in good faith, releasing hostages, shutting nuke facilities, etc... Trump blew it.

MSM has told you that the status quo is good. Anything Trump does is bad.  It is a small box to operate from, but many are crowded into it..  I hope millions of Koreans have a better life as a result of this summit, and the region is more peaceful.

[Brisketexan 103139]

11 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I hope millions of Koreans have a better life as a result of this summit, and the region is more peaceful.

I hope for that to.

But I'm not dumb enough to bet on it.

[staboner 4938]

9 minutes ago, Caracara said:

There's a never-trump argument for any eventuality. Watching CNN, in a span of 20 minutes I heard your argument, and then heard that if Trump "scuttles the deal" after dear-leader acted in good faith, releasing hostages, shutting nuke facilities, etc... Trump blew it.

MSM has told you that the status quo is good. Anything Trump does is bad.  It is a small box to operate from, but many are crowded into it..  I hope millions of Koreans have a better life as a result of this summit, and the region is more peaceful.

the media sucks for everyone son. stop posting decades old butthurt. we all know it. go the thread that bitches about the media

i am prob in the minority here but i think having the meeting is a plus. if it actually happens and neither one of the unstables does/says something stupid. i don't think its about legitimacy as much as its about bringing them into the global public eye. and hopefully enabling conversation and common ground so NK doesn't hunker back down, eat bark, kill citizens and build more nukes. prob idealistic and giving trump some element of trust, but i still think its better than doing nothing and letting the status quo get more stale by the day.

[staboner 4938]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I hope for that to.

But I'm not dumb enough to bet on it.

same here, i hope it brings light the people of NK and light to the plight they are enduring. but i ain't betting on it

if we keep them hunkered down to themselves then i also think we keep the people's suffering out of our mind too. 

so i am hoping for fucking something.

[wildcat09 28387]

18 minutes ago, Caracara said:

There's a never-trump argument for any eventuality. Watching CNN, in a span of 20 minutes I heard your argument, and then heard that if Trump "scuttles the deal" after dear-leader acted in good faith, releasing hostages, shutting nuke facilities, etc... Trump blew it.

MSM has told you that the status quo is good. Anything Trump does is bad.  It is a small box to operate from, but many are crowded into it..  I hope millions of Koreans have a better life as a result of this summit, and the region is more peaceful.

Boy you sure have moved those goalposts a hell of a long way from "North Korea denuked seems like a done deal."

[Caracara 41]

Someday North Korea might be making our devices instead of China.  Our consumerism is major leverage.   I'm not "betting on it," but there are a lot of possibilities to ponder beyond never-dotard.

[Caracara 41]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Boy you sure have moved those goalposts a hell of a long way from "North Korea denuked seems like a done deal."

Maybe it was, but there has to be a show.  It's possible that big decisions were made before today. Reports are that "things going very, very well." 

If this turns out to be protracted nothingburger, Trump gets "played" by the little monster,  I'll be here for my medicine.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

20 minutes ago, Caracara said:

There's a never-trump argument for any eventuality. Watching CNN, in a span of 20 minutes I heard your argument, and then heard that if Trump "scuttles the deal" after dear-leader acted in good faith, releasing hostages, shutting nuke facilities, etc... Trump blew it.

MSM has told you that the status quo is good. Anything Trump does is bad.  It is a small box to operate from, but many are crowded into it..  I hope millions of Koreans have a better life as a result of this summit, and the region is more peaceful.

Bullshit.  There's a clear standard for success here, and it's the Iran deal tailored to the circumstances in NK.  Get NK to agree to immediately stop its nuclear program, and within a reasonable time, dispose of all existing nukes and dismantle all development sites.   Full IAEA access and verification to all known sites and a process for obtaining access to suspected but unconfirmed sites.   Easing of sanctions only as NK hits milestones and their compliance remains confirmed.   Sanctions may be reinstituted if there are violations.  And the US may withdraw its nukes from the peninsula, but no further.

If Trump gets that, it will be a historic success.   If he doesn't, don't give us any of that "nothing he could have done would have been good enough" bullshit.   Real NK denuclearization would be good enough. 

[wildcat09 28387]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

Maybe it was, but there has to be a show.  It's possible that big decisions were made before today. Reports are that "things going very, very well." 

If this turns out to be protracted nothingburger, Trump gets "played" by the little monster,  I'll be here for my medicine.

No you  won't.

[Caracara 41]

17 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

..  If he doesn't, don't give us any of that "nothing he could have done would have been good enough" bullshit.   Real NK denuclearization would be good enough. 

I don't know why you think I would give you ("us" as you say), the line,  "nothing he could have done would have been good enough" bullshit,   based on anything I've posted anywhere at anytime.  I do believe I've said I think we're demanding and will get, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization.  If we don't, I'll be here eating crow.

Damn y'all get testy at the slightest push-back to your group thinking.

[Brisketexan 103139]

Just now, Caracara said:

I do believe I've said I think we're demanding and will get, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization.  If we don't, I'll be here eating crow.

We will not.

And you will not.

Because if you believe such lies, you have no problem telling them.

[Caracara 41]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We will not.

And you will not.

Because if you believe such lies, you have no problem telling them.

What are you saying exactly? I'll be banned on this site?  I'm not happy to own up to my mistakes or bad guesses, but I've never shied away from it.

 

I did lie I guess, when I said "carry-on" I'll get out of y'all's way as you collectively predict horrible outcomes.  whoops Apologies for that.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Caracara