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DACA, immigration reform whatever


hayden_horn

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When the administration lies about everything, including caging children, ICE liberating cities from MS-13, inauguration crowd size, the size of the deficit, and I could go on for pages and pages, there's zero reason to believe they're telling the truth on anything.  They get zero benefit of the doubt and any official word at this point has to be taken with a grain of salt.  

Our country is fucked.

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16 minutes ago, slorch said:

So it’s racial...but it’s not... but it sounds better, so it is.

40 out of 10000. 

 

 I bet they have them all lined up, and then just kick out the darkest ones. Trump’s orders. 

You know, when you are wrong, you can just admit it.  

I never said it was racial.  It's possible there was an intentional anti-immigrant aspect, which is frequently driven by racial factors. It's also possible it was just an evolution of changing standards in background checks.  It's worth finding out, right? 

 

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1 minute ago, Tuco said:

You know, when you are wrong, you can just admit it.  

I never said it was racial.  It's possible there was an intentional anti-immigrant aspect, which is frequently driven by racial factors. It's also possible it was just an evolution of changing standards in background checks.  It's worth finding out, right? 

 

Hopefully we'll see the details when the case is heard. If there was a targeted effort to single out only immigrants while ignoring others it will come out.

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14 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Hopefully we'll see the details when the case is heard. If there was a targeted effort to single out only immigrants while ignoring others it will come out.

Not saying this is or is not racially motivated, but back in the late 1970's the military decided you had to have a GED or HS diploma to remain in. My mom worked at Fort Bragg teaching HS English to members in the 82nd Airborne so they could pass. Most did, but a lot did not. The majority of these were from Puerto Rico or Dominican immigrants. Policies change.

I would like to know if these 40 are hispanic or non-hispanic immigrants. 

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12 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Hopefully we'll see the details when the case is heard. If there was a targeted effort to single out only immigrants while ignoring others it will come out.

I doubt it was done at that level.  I doubt that midlevel officers decided it was time to apply rules more stringently to the immigrants than to others.  There is a better chance that there was a policy shift, higher up, that would filter out more immigrants.  It's going to be difficult to get to the reasons for that in a court case.  That's more of a question of Congressional oversight, which obviously won't happen for a while.

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13 hours ago, scottsins said:

What do you mean “pass background checks”?

Like, misdemeanors other than domestic violence, such as DWI, unlawful carrying a weapon, resisting arrest, terroristic threat, assault causing bodily injury?

Yeah. I have a TB of client files with those charges who were admitted or allowed to stay in the military.

No idea what background check they are referring to.

 

It's a counterintelligence security check.  The FBI, CIA, etc. have to clear them.

 

25 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Sounds to me like they invited immigrants to join, but since it's difficult (maybe impossible in some cases) to check on their relatives, they are now kicking them out.  Maybe a couple of years ago the military had a different security procedure, and it's more difficult for immigrants to meet the new one.  Maybe there has been a conscious effort to change the security procedure to make it more difficult for immigrants.  We should find out.  My Congressman (former Air Force general, and general hypocritical asshole, Don Bacon) claims the following on Facebook:

Is that spin based on the basic kernel of truth that it's hard to run background checks on people born in various parts of the world, or were there specific concerns that presented legitimate security risks?  Don't know.  But it's obvious how the Republicans are going to defend it.  It's not just baseline washouts.  Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your speculation.

I had a high school buddy of mine sign up for the CIA years back.  I hadn't seen him in a decade, and we weren't like BFFs in high school. I got a call asking about him.  He did not give me to them as a reference, but I did get a heads-up from a mutual friend that I might be called.  The only thing I can think of is that we'd played football together - that might be in a newspaper somewhere, and we got park curfew tickets together.

I'm telling you this to say that these security checks dig pretty deep - far beyond looking at who your parents work for or your criminal record.  So I would bet there are actual red flags - not just an "undetermined" status.  I'm not sure if the Army would be privy to what the specific flags are.

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1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

When the administration lies about everything, including caging children, ICE liberating cities from MS-13, inauguration crowd size, the size of the deficit, and I could go on for pages and pages, there's zero reason to believe they're telling the truth on anything.  They get zero benefit of the doubt and any official word at this point has to be taken with a grain of salt.  

Our country is fucked.

Trump killed the people in Annapolis too.  Don’t leave that out. You heard it here on surly in less than an hour after the event

 

Nazi mind beams emanate from their press releases also. 

Edited by slorch
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27 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It's a counterintelligence security check.  The FBI, CIA, etc. have to clear them.

 

I had a high school buddy of mine sign up for the CIA years back.  I hadn't seen him in a decade, and we weren't like BFFs in high school. I got a call asking about him.  He did not give me to them as a reference, but I did get a heads-up from a mutual friend that I might be called.  The only thing I can think of is that we'd played football together - that might be in a newspaper somewhere, and we got park curfew tickets together.

I'm telling you this to say that these security checks dig pretty deep - far beyond looking at who your parents work for or your criminal record.  So I would bet there are actual red flags - not just an "undetermined" status.  I'm not sure if the Army would be privy to what the specific flags are.

The average enlisted soldier doesn't get those kind of background checks. The standard background check is the FBI criminal background check which is nothing like the one you are describing above.

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6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Trump killed the people in Annapolis too.  Don’t leave that out. You heard it here on surly in less than an hour after the event

 

Nazi mind beams emanate from their press releases also. 

Why do you believe the administration on this?  What makes you think they are telling the truth when they have lied about other immigration issues repeatedly?  Doubting what compulsive liars say is true is not the same as believing crazy conspiracy theories.  But you have to conflate the two rather than explain why you are trusting what the Trump administration is saying.

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Just now, lemonlime said:

Why do you believe the administration on this?  What makes you think they are telling the truth when they have lied about other immigration issues repeatedly?  Doubting what compulsive liars say is true is not the same as believing crazy conspiracy theories.  But you have to conflate the two rather than explain why you are trusting what the Trump administration is saying.

It's slorch

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5 minutes ago, F250 said:

The average enlisted soldier doesn't get those kind of background checks. The standard background check is the FBI criminal background check which is nothing like the one you are describing above.

These aren't the average enlisted soldier.  They were admitted under a program for non-qualifying immigrants.  The article mentions that it is a counterintelligence check and that several agencies have to clear them.  It might not be the same as the CIA protocol, but it's not plugging a name into truthfinder.com

Edited by JBJ
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5 minutes ago, F250 said:

The average enlisted soldier doesn't get those kind of background checks. The standard background check is the FBI criminal background check which is nothing like the one you are describing above.

Yeah, my best friend who I'd known since kindergarten enlisted when we graduated high school.  Nobody called me about shit.  I did get a call regarding an ex who was trying to join the foreign service.

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3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yeah, my best friend who I'd known since kindergarten enlisted when we graduated high school.  Nobody called me about shit.  I did get a call regarding an ex who was trying to join the foreign service.

He did not need it, or did not list you since you knew about his real side. She did list you since she had to. You must disclose an ex no matter how fucked up the shit she could say. 

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5 minutes ago, JBJ said:

These aren't the average enlisted soldier.  They were admitted under a program for non-qualifying immigrants.  The article mentions that it is a counterintelligence check and that several agencies have to clear them.  It might not be the same as the CIA protocol, but it's not plugging a name into truthfinder.com

The article is ambiguous on the background checks and why they are being done. I know this isn't like using an online background check. I've been through enough government background checks in my life to understand the difference.

 

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3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

He did not need it, or did not list you since you knew about his real side. She did list you since she had to. You must disclose an ex no matter how fucked up the shit she could say. 

They always skip your immediate circle of friends. Well, they don't skip them but they don't spend much time with people you are close to. They always find the people who you have no idea what they are going to say.

 

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2 minutes ago, F250 said:

They always skip your immediate circle of friends. Well, they don't skip them but they don't spend much time with people you are close to. They always find the people who you have no idea what they are going to say.

 

yes, but you can list them and they can talk to them. I have been on both sides of the clearance game. 

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1 hour ago, retread said:

The Toddler gets what he wants, and plays golf while children sit in cages.

And it doesn't matter how gilded, a cage is still a cage. At summer camp they let you go home if you don't like it. These kids are prisoners. 

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Anne Frank’s family ran into numerous roadblocks and exhaustive immigration procedures which prevented them from migrating to the US and Cuba during the Holocaust, newly-discovered records reveal. 

Otto Frank, the father of the globally renowned writer and diarist, initially applied for visas to the US in 1938, the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam and the US Holocaust Museum said in a statement on Friday.

On July 6, 1942, nearly four years after the family reportedly began its immigration process, the Franks went into hiding.

“I am forced to look out for emigration and as far as I can see USA is the only country we could go to,” Mr Frank wrote to a friend in the US in 1941, a year prior to moving his family inside the upstairs attic of a close friend in Amsterdam.

According to his letters, Mr Otto was unsuccessful in having his paperwork processed by the American consulate in Germany because “all the papers have been destroyed there”. 

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5 hours ago, RandomIdoit said:

Hopefully we'll see the details when the case is heard. If there was a targeted effort to single out only immigrants while ignoring others it will come out.

40 seems like a small number of the whole for the racial allegations to stand?  there were parameters the people had to fulfill if they were to be eligible for the program.  perhaps the easy answer is that those ~40 were found to be simply ineligible?  

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1 hour ago, zork said:

40 seems like a small number of the whole for the racial allegations to stand?  there were parameters the people had to fulfill if they were to be eligible for the program.  perhaps the easy answer is that those ~40 were found to be simply ineligible?  

My response was to the people claiming that they discharged them because they are targeting immigrants. Maybe they did, but then again maybe they didn't.

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Cross posting. These Stalinist assholes destroyed documents that would have allowed families to reunite.

Quote

But those precautions were undermined in some cases by the other federal agency that has initial custody of apprehended migrants in the first 72 hours after they cross the border — Customs and Border Protection. In hundreds of cases, Customs agents deleted the initial records in which parents and children were listed together as a family with a “family identification number,” according to two officials at the Department of Homeland Security, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the process.

Quote

Administration officials previously had said about 2,300 children had been separated from their parents. But over the weekend, the agency came up with its final accounting that showed nearly 3,000 in total.

Many questions remained unanswered Thursday about how the process of reunifications would unfold.

 

Edited by retread
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Cross posting. These Stalinist assholes destroyed documents that would have allowed families to reunite.
But those precautions were undermined in some cases by the other federal agency that has initial custody of apprehended migrants in the first 72 hours after they cross the border — Customs and Border Protection. In hundreds of cases, Customs agents deleted the initial records in which parents and children were listed together as a family with a “family identification number,” according to two officials at the Department of Homeland Security, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the process.
Administration officials previously had said about 2,300 children had been separated from their parents. But over the weekend, the agency came up with its final accounting that showed nearly 3,000 in total.
Many questions remained unanswered Thursday about how the process of reunifications would unfold.
 

These guys might have an 18 USC 2071 problem (intentional destruction of govt records). The fundamental issue is that govt records belong to “we the people,” not the agency. And yes, in my mind, this was one of the biggest concerns about “Hillary’s emails.”

Prove the right elements, and it’s a felony.

And, I’m wondering if someone can figure out how to plead a 1983 case. There seems to be a good chance of overcoming qualified immunity if the act is facially illegal. But I’m just spitballing here.
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Part of the 'policy' was to reclassify some of these children as unaccompanied -- as if they came alone. I don't know if that was part of the impetus for deleting the records. In any event, it's some evil, mendacious shit to intentionally estrange them from their parents.

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The “no one being held accountable” part is more disturbing than the actual atrocities.

Not one person has been fired or resigned over this disaster yet. 

That has terrible implications for the future of our country.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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The “no one being held accountable” part is more disturbing than the actual atrocities.
Not one person has been fired or resigned over this disaster yet. 
That has terrible implications for the future of our country.

It’s a dress rehearsal for more.
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You look behind you and see hopeless poverty, tyranny and oppression.  You look ahead of you and see a perilous journey to freedom and the opportunity of prosperity.  You may not make it.  You may be turned back.  You may be robbed,  raped or killed. But you set forth anyway.  No river, wall or law will deter you.  There is nothing more American than that.

Trump’s bold 4D chess move regarding immigration is equalizing the view of hopeless poverty, tyranny and oppression in both directions.

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On 7/6/2018 at 7:50 PM, Brisketexan said:

 

These guys might have an 18 USC 2071 problem (intentional destruction of govt records). The fundamental issue is that govt records belong to “we the people,” not the agency. And yes, in my mind, this was one of the biggest concerns about “Hillary’s emails.”

Prove the right elements, and it’s a felony.

And, I’m wondering if someone can figure out how to plead a 1983 case. There seems to be a good chance of overcoming qualified immunity if the act is facially illegal. But I’m just spitballing here.

Bivens.   And I don't see how you can claim qualified immunity for a facially illegal act.  Maybe some low level yahoo could, but not the person who ordered the records destroyed. 

Especially a facially illegal act which could permanently separate toddlers from their parents.  There's enough Fourth Amendment and due process violations that a reasonable person would know of all these violations. 

But it's not going to matter anyway.  Because this will be assigned to a Trump friendly judge who will find that there is qualified immunity, or make up some absolute immunity for all law enforcement that isn't investigating Trump, and dismiss the case.

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this shit is so foully disgusting. fuck this administration, but also fuck everyone down the chain of command who are "just following orders," and fuck the private prison companies raking in millions on the backs of innocent children.

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5 hours ago, Goredho said:

You look behind you and see hopeless poverty, tyranny and oppression.  You look ahead of you and see a perilous journey to freedom and the opportunity of prosperity.  You may not make it.  You may be turned back.  You may be robbed,  raped or killed. But you set forth anyway.  No river, wall or law will deter you.  There is nothing more American than that.

Trump’s bold 4D chess move regarding immigration is equalizing the view of hopeless poverty, tyranny and oppression in both directions.

Good Post Hall of Fame nominee

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its a long read so I’m only posting a little here:

 

In a congressional hearing in May — just weeks before the news broke that immigration officials were separating immigrant families — Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen told Congress about the care she said ICE provided to pregnant detainees.

“We provide them with prenatal care, we provide them separate housing, we provide them specialists, we will take them to appointments if they need to go somewhere else, we provide them counseling,” Nielsen listed.

“They are not only given adequate care in facilities, but it is much better care than when they are living in the shadows.”

When asked about the list of resources Nielsen said pregnant women in ICE custody were receiving, each of the three women BuzzFeed News spoke with said they had received none or only one or two of the services — often with significant delays while in dire situations.

“It’s a lie. They didn’t give me anything,” said Rubia Mabel Morales Alfaro, 28, who was in ICE detention from around Dec. 23 to March 15 this year. E also said she had received none of the services. “If they had had that, I would not have lost my son. I don’t understand why they won’t take care of pregnant women,” she said.

Three lawyers and two medical workers who work with detainees told BuzzFeed News that the treatment of pregnant women was substantially different before Trump took office. Pregnant women were often released from Customs and Border Protection (CBP) centers faster than other detainees, particularly after August 2016, when ICE issued a policy limiting detention of pregnant women to only “extraordinary” circumstances or cases of mandatory detention. Often it took only a phone call to the center to get a pregnant woman released on parole, Linda Rivas, the executive director of Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center, told BuzzFeed News. After Trump entered the White House, these calls stopped working, she said. And after the new policy was announced, advocates stopped having a reason to think they would.

Still, five legal and health care advocates who work with women detained after crossing the border illegally or seeking asylum said ICE does provide women with a pregnancy test, prenatal vitamins (not always regularly, two advocates said), and, sometimes, a standard entrance exam by a nonspecialist medical worker.

One woman said that when her pregnancy test came back positive, ICE facility staff gave her a “diet for health” label to wear on her ID. An obstetrics-trained nurse in West Texas told BuzzFeed News that some detained pregnant women are transported to her clinic for one check-up during their time there, often in their second or third trimesters. Some (but not all) detention centers also make sure pregnant women get the lower bunk bed. But according to the 17 people BuzzFeed News interviewed, the special treatment stops there.

 

Snip

 

 

 

Pagoada, 24, was four months pregnant and already feeling dizzy and vomiting when she approached CBP agents at the port of entry on July 23, 2017, she told BuzzFeed News. In custody, she asked ICE officials for medical attention, she said, but they responded by saying they didn’t speak Spanish. Late that night, she started feeling intense pains in her abdomen and was bleeding so heavily that one of her 15 fellow detainees in the room started shouting and waving for help at a security camera, she said, but when the officials arrived they still denied her care.

All of the women said they had been shackled around their hands, legs, and belly while they were in CBP custody, mainly while being transported from the holding centers at the border in California and Arizona (where E was moved to for more than a week after entering in California) and then to Otay Mesa, the privately run longer-term detention facility in San Diego.

Shackling in such a manner is standard practice for prisoners in the US while they are being transferred between facilities, but for pregnant women in their second trimester it could cause issues with the pregnancy, medical professionals say. ICE facilities are contracted under three different versions of detention standards of care, depending on when they signed their contracts. Shackling is prohibited by ICE and CBP’s most recent standards of care policies as well as by a congressional directive.

“If a woman is jostled while wearing shackles around her belly, it can affect the child, as can any fall onto the belly, which is more likely to happen if the woman is chained,” Dr. Anjani Kolahi, a family medicine and obstetrics physician with Physicians for Reproductive Health told BuzzFeed News.

Nevertheless, a nurse who works with pregnant detainees at clinics operated by Texas Tech University and the University Medical Center in El Paso said the women are “almost always” shackled around their hands and feet, and sometimes around their stomachs. In the past few months, staff at the center has seen at least two women shackled within a few hours of giving birth, she said.

“We were all really shocked because we hadn’t seen that before … Women are most at risk of experiencing a hemorrhage within the first 24 to 48 hours [after birth],” she said, explaining that if there were complications, shackles would delay the medical team’s response and put the woman’s health at risk.

“This is not the US standard of care in any way,” Kolahi said after being told of the various claims made by women and the people who work with them. “This is absolutely medical negligence. Overall [detaining pregnant women] is a cruel, inhumane practice. It’s creating all sorts of unnecessary risk for the women” and their children, she said.

Gilchrist of CoreCivic said she "cannot speak to what occurs prior to a detainee coming into our custody," but that Morales was "classified as level one, or low-level detainees at Otay Mesa, and would not have been restrained."

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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32 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:
.

Gilchrist of CoreCivic said she "cannot speak to what occurs prior to a detainee coming into our custody," but that Morales was "classified as level one, or low-level detainees at Otay Mesa, and would not have been restrained."

CoreCivic's top recipients for the 2018 election:

Marsha Blackburn $19,100

John Culberson $11,000

John Rose $7,700

Chuck Fleischmann $5500

Bob Corker $5000

[About 184k so far, with 177k of it going to Republicans.  The ROI on that has to be pretty solid.]

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

 

 

 

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Quote

CoreCivic, which owns and operates private prisons, has seen a 935 percent increase in federal contract awards from 2016 to 2017 thanks to a change of heart at the Department of Justice.

Fifteen days after being confirmed U.S. attorney general, Jeff Sessions rescinded an Obama-era order designed to phase out for-profit prisons for federal inmates. The phase-out followed a DOJ report that found poor management practices at a CoreCivic facility contributed to an inmate riot that killed a prison guard in 2012.

Since Sessions’ announcement, the DOJ has awarded $388 million in federal contracts to CoreCivic. The company contributed $250,000 to Trump’s inauguration through a subsidiary.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/01/companies-that-funded-trumps-inauguration/

 

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6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

CoreCivic's top recipients for the 2018 election:

Marsha Blackburn $19,100

John Culberson $11,000

John Rose $7,700

Chuck Fleischmann $5500

Bob Corker $5000

[About 184k so far, with 177k of it going to Republicans.  The ROI on that has to be pretty solid.]

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

American politics excels at creating the cheapest whores money can buy. 

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52 minutes ago, Tuco said:

CoreCivic's top recipients for the 2018 election:

Marsha Blackburn $19,100

John Culberson $11,000

John Rose $7,700

Chuck Fleischmann $5500

Bob Corker $5000

[About 184k so far, with 177k of it going to Republicans.  The ROI on that has to be pretty solid.]

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000021940&cycle=2018

John Culberson is a cunt.

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3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

this shit is so foully disgusting. fuck this administration, but also fuck everyone down the chain of command who are "just following orders," and fuck the private prison companies raking in millions on the backs of innocent children.

Yep. This level of sadism doesn't exist b/c one border agent decided to delete some records or one bad apple decided to strap a pregnant woman across her stomach. It's endemic in this administration and comes straight from the orange pustule at the top.

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This is the PBNDS from 2011 with the updated material from 2016. I have not had the chance to look at the changes instituted in 2016, but I plan on getting into it this evening. The area I want to focus on is 5.7, Visitations.  

I would like to point out this goes deeper than the companies holding the children. Notice there are entire sections about movement of kids and these were thought out by legal eagles. On top of the for profit prison firms there are companies tasked with the movement of people from facility to facility. The Texas sector is run by Trailboss. they basically are called and told who to pick up and where to move them. The PBNDS is the standard they have to incorporate. 

Just a bit of information in case anyone is getting real active against this bullshit. It is across our system and needs to stop and be changed. We are way fucking better than this. 

https://www.ice.gov/detention-standards/2011#wcm-survey-target-id

Here is the recent award.

Contract Award Number:
70CDCR18D00000002
Contract Award Dollar Amount:
$244,235,070.83
Contractor Awarded Name:
Trailboss Enterprises, Inc.
Contractor Awarded DUNS:
879740454
Contractor Awarded Address:
201 E. 3rd Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
United States
 
If you want a fun read look at the job postings on the trail boss website. They are not looking for the sharpest candidates. 
Quote

• Communicate in English using complex sentences using normal word order with present and past tenses. 

Edited by InkaUtexas
wanted to add some shit about this crap.
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