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Dirty 6th getting an upgrade?


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Guest Lobo

First of all-that person filming has war correspondent sized balls.  My hands are shaking just watching that.  

Was this last night?  I don't recall final Sunday night of SXSW ever being that crowded, but I guess last night of Spring Break too?  You didn't see a lot of people with badges or wristbands on.  

Anyway, I know the police get some flack in this city, but whoever is in charge of our equine program deserves some kudos.  Those horses are in lockstep with one another and seem as completely un-phased as the dude filming all this.  

All in all, another fucked up incident on a street that Stream is going to slowly turn into office space.  

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6th street used to be college students and out of town weekend vacationers. most everyone was in a good mood enjoying a night of drinking and bar hopping.

now sixth street is full of people who want to do nothing but cause trouble. i'll be surprised if any of the shooters in the past 2 years ever stepped foot inside a bar or spent money buying a single drink. they should charge $40 admission to 6th street. you can use that money towards drinks credits in the bars. that alone would get rid of much of the unsavory elements. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

6th street used to be college students and out of town weekend vacationers. most everyone was in a good mood enjoying a night of drinking and bar hopping.

now sixth street is full of people who want to do nothing but cause trouble. i'll be surprised if any of the shooters in the past 2 years ever stepped foot inside a bar or spent money buying a single drink. they should charge $40 admission to 6th street. you can use that money towards drinks credits in the bars. that alone would get rid of much of the unsavory elements. 

This. I'm shocked at what 6th street looks like just in foot traffic. The only foot traffic used to be just bar to bar and bar crawling or parking lot pimping outside of Logan's or Copper Tank at 2:00am. This is gross and reminds me why New Austin is ew and do not want.

Edit to add: I think I saw Mooseknuckle in that video. Is that the longest tenured bar on dirty 6th or is Aquarium and The Library still around?

Edited by TurkeyChew
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Just now, TurkeyChew said:

This. I'm shocked at what 6th street looks like just in foot traffic. The only foot traffic used to be just bar to bar and bar crawling or parking lot pimping outside of Logan's or Copper Tank at 2:00am. This is gross and reminds me why New Austin is ew and do not want.

i remember the last few shooters being under 21. one of the shooters was a 15 or 16 yr old kid from killeen. he shot at another under 21 year old dude with whom he had a beef. he missed and shot a bunch of innocent people. 

it has nothing to do with new austin. it's 6th street and austin just getting too popular. it's not like the city of austin can actually keep these assholes from visiting austin or 6th st. there would be too much pushback from different groups. 

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Guest Lobo
40 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

This. I'm shocked at what 6th street looks like just in foot traffic. The only foot traffic used to be just bar to bar and bar crawling or parking lot pimping outside of Logan's or Copper Tank at 2:00am. This is gross and reminds me why New Austin is ew and do not want.

Edit to add: I think I saw Mooseknuckle in that video. Is that the longest tenured bar on dirty 6th or is Aquarium and The Library still around?

I know the library is still around because we tried to buy it last year and turn it into offices.  Turns out Stream Realty was way ahead of us and outbid us.  Not sure about Aquarium.  But my point is folks have noticed that literally the only portion of the CBD not experiencing redevelopment is Dirty Sixth.  It's not because nobody wants to office/hotel down there, it's because the prices were too high for too long.  They're the only ones coming down now as legacy leases downstairs combined with woefully inefficient use on 2nd and 3rd floors are coming to a head and capital needs to get deployed somewhere in Austin for redevelopment.  I'll try to figure out how to post photos from our underwriting visits to the Library. And I suspect half the bars there look the same upstairs.  There was a mezz level bar we were gonna turn into a coworking space/lounge.  And then the third floor (which also had its own 'mezz loft') was just a complete shitshow of space.  There was a little office for like 5 people crammed in the back and the rest was just like a scrap hoarder reality show.  Just filled with accumulated junk and trash and all manner of shit.  We looked at a few comps and it's the same story up and down the street.  Some legacy lease downstairs on some retail or bar, then two levels of either other bar/other storage of shit.  It's a shitty use of space consider the price on the floorplate.  Plus a lot more of those can go vertical outside the CVC than you'd think.  I will bet our soft money costs than by the end of the decade, it'll be literally half of the current bar/restaurant usage with a half dozen teardowns going vertical, and everything else in between.  It's the one thing Adler and the DAA and folks like Stream, et. al. have agreed on and done good planning on.

I don't know where this kinda shit eventually bleeds out to, but go ahead and short that area if you can.

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58 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I know the library is still around because we tried to buy it last year and turn it into offices.  Turns out Stream Realty was way ahead of us and outbid us.  Not sure about Aquarium.  But my point is folks have noticed that literally the only portion of the CBD not experiencing redevelopment is Dirty Sixth.  It's not because nobody wants to office/hotel down there, it's because the prices were too high for too long.  They're the only ones coming down now as legacy leases downstairs combined with woefully inefficient use on 2nd and 3rd floors are coming to a head and capital needs to get deployed somewhere in Austin for redevelopment.  I'll try to figure out how to post photos from our underwriting visits to the Library. And I suspect half the bars there look the same upstairs.  There was a mezz level bar we were gonna turn into a coworking space/lounge.  And then the third floor (which also had its own 'mezz loft') was just a complete shitshow of space.  There was a little office for like 5 people crammed in the back and the rest was just like a scrap hoarder reality show.  Just filled with accumulated junk and trash and all manner of shit.  We looked at a few comps and it's the same story up and down the street.  Some legacy lease downstairs on some retail or bar, then two levels of either other bar/other storage of shit.  It's a shitty use of space consider the price on the floorplate.  Plus a lot more of those can go vertical outside the CVC than you'd think.  I will bet our soft money costs than by the end of the decade, it'll be literally half of the current bar/restaurant usage with a half dozen teardowns going vertical, and everything else in between.  It's the one thing Adler and the DAA and folks like Stream, et. al. have agreed on and done good planning on.

I don't know where this kinda shit eventually bleeds out to, but go ahead and short that area if you can.

what the hell? I thought you were a teacher. 

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6 hours ago, Lobo said:

First of all-that person filming has war correspondent sized balls.  My hands are shaking just watching that.  

Was this last night?  I don't recall final Sunday night of SXSW ever being that crowded, but I guess last night of Spring Break too?  You didn't see a lot of people with badges or wristbands on.  

 

It was Saturday night, which has looked like that on Saturday night for as long as I can remember going to SXSW (about a decade). Aside from the people actually here for the festival, there's a bunch of hangers-on who just want to be in a crowd because they know there's people in Austin for a festival. I had a friend make the trip just for the night. Beats me as to why, we just saw music at Zilker Brewing and hopped a couple bars on Cesar Chavez. I knew that Dirty 6th was not the place to be on Saturday night of South By, I kinda figured there would be shots fired by the end of the night.

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Guest Lobo

What hell could I possibly teach?  

CFA 374:  Seinfeld as Contemporary Societal Framing 

And yes, I have pitched the idea.  You would be one of my first guest lecturers.

 

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

I know the library is still around because we tried to buy it last year and turn it into offices.  Turns out Stream Realty was way ahead of us and outbid us.  Not sure about Aquarium.  But my point is folks have noticed that literally the only portion of the CBD not experiencing redevelopment is Dirty Sixth.  It's not because nobody wants to office/hotel down there, it's because the prices were too high for too long.  They're the only ones coming down now as legacy leases downstairs combined with woefully inefficient use on 2nd and 3rd floors are coming to a head and capital needs to get deployed somewhere in Austin for redevelopment.  I'll try to figure out how to post photos from our underwriting visits to the Library. And I suspect half the bars there look the same upstairs.  There was a mezz level bar we were gonna turn into a coworking space/lounge.  And then the third floor (which also had its own 'mezz loft') was just a complete shitshow of space.  There was a little office for like 5 people crammed in the back and the rest was just like a scrap hoarder reality show.  Just filled with accumulated junk and trash and all manner of shit.  We looked at a few comps and it's the same story up and down the street.  Some legacy lease downstairs on some retail or bar, then two levels of either other bar/other storage of shit.  It's a shitty use of space consider the price on the floorplate.  Plus a lot more of those can go vertical outside the CVC than you'd think.  I will bet our soft money costs than by the end of the decade, it'll be literally half of the current bar/restaurant usage with a half dozen teardowns going vertical, and everything else in between.  It's the one thing Adler and the DAA and folks like Stream, et. al. have agreed on and done good planning on.

I don't know where this kinda shit eventually bleeds out to, but go ahead and short that area if you can.

Stream Realty is covered up and all-in on the redevelopment of Dirty 6th:

Sixth_Street_Coronavirus-scaled.jpeg

https://austin.towers.net/one-real-estate-company-now-owns-more-than-30-properties-on-east-sixth/[email protected]

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Guest Lobo

Yes, I believe that's what I stated.  It's no secret.  I mean it was when we were in a bidding war with them on one particular building almost a year ago.  

But it's their plan for the street that's really interesting.  You can't go very vertical in the CVC.  So that'll effectively become the newly rebooted "Entertainment District" which will still mean handguns and handlebars.  There's gonna be some serious tear downs, consolidation of lots, and vertical growth.  We were gonna try and do a blended model, keep the bar downstairs and turn the top 3 floors into a creative office space.  They're gonna have a few of those.  There's one aggregated already that'll be a mid-rise hotel, even the flag has already been selected for JV.  And of course the pushback will be, "People won't wanna work on Dirty Sixth" or "people won't want to live/stay on Dirty Sixth".  Same shit I heard on Warehouse District, 2nd Street, Greenwater, NE/Waterloo corridor, Rainey minority district, etc., etc., etc.  

Only question is how many more shootings before the redevelopment beings.  And where does that track record of crowd gatherings (and possible ensuing violence) relocate to when it's all done?  And what does it to around the homeless conversation which still has a sizeable panhandling presence there even though the camps have almost entirely relocated?  And then the tax base.  And the zoning/permitting situation.  Other than the CVC directives, a lots still up in the air.  All I know the pricing, capital markets, and development visions for a majority of the buildings has changed wildly, but quietly, in the last 12 months.  Somebody, somewhere at Stream and office space brokers is thinking of how to use these violent incidents for their own means.  And I guess, in some way, I can't blame 'em.

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6 hours ago, Lobo said:

First of all-that person filming has war correspondent sized balls.  My hands are shaking just watching that.

Really? 3 shots fired? Maybe if there was some follow up. That was just one dude shooting another dude and getting out of there. That isn't really war correspondent level. 

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Guest Lobo

Watch it again.  Yeah, it was "just three shots fired", but shots fired, dozens of cops, hundreds of people blowing past him in an understandable frenzy, a stable of horses, multiple EMT carts, shifting barricades, tons of screaming, more hundreds of people fleeing.  The guy's phone never veers from 180 by more than 5 degrees.  I'm not saying he deserves a Pulitzer, but he sure as fuck maintained his composure better than 99% of the population would.  You can also tell his heart-rate and breathing don't even change if you look closely enough.  Just trying to give the guy kudos. His quality footage will likely put some bad people away for a long while.  He's got my respect anyway.  

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On 3/21/2022 at 2:41 PM, Lobo said:

I know the library is still around because we tried to buy it last year and turn it into offices.  Turns out Stream Realty was way ahead of us and outbid us.  Not sure about Aquarium.  But my point is folks have noticed that literally the only portion of the CBD not experiencing redevelopment is Dirty Sixth.  It's not because nobody wants to office/hotel down there, it's because the prices were too high for too long.  They're the only ones coming down now as legacy leases downstairs combined with woefully inefficient use on 2nd and 3rd floors are coming to a head and capital needs to get deployed somewhere in Austin for redevelopment.  I'll try to figure out how to post photos from our underwriting visits to the Library. And I suspect half the bars there look the same upstairs.  There was a mezz level bar we were gonna turn into a coworking space/lounge.  And then the third floor (which also had its own 'mezz loft') was just a complete shitshow of space.  There was a little office for like 5 people crammed in the back and the rest was just like a scrap hoarder reality show.  Just filled with accumulated junk and trash and all manner of shit.  We looked at a few comps and it's the same story up and down the street.  Some legacy lease downstairs on some retail or bar, then two levels of either other bar/other storage of shit.  It's a shitty use of space consider the price on the floorplate.  Plus a lot more of those can go vertical outside the CVC than you'd think.  I will bet our soft money costs than by the end of the decade, it'll be literally half of the current bar/restaurant usage with a half dozen teardowns going vertical, and everything else in between.  It's the one thing Adler and the DAA and folks like Stream, et. al. have agreed on and done good planning on.

I don't know where this kinda shit eventually bleeds out to, but go ahead and short that area if you can.

woah. those buildings on 6th aren’t historically protected?  that blows my mind that they can be torn down.  

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Guest Lobo
26 minutes ago, immamac said:

Some are some aren't. 

This.  It's like the 'Facts of Life' theme song.  You take the good, you take the bad.  

Stream is going about this methodically.  You take the ones in the CVC.  They can't go much higher, a little bit...but not much.  So you do the pro-forma, is it worth going anew if the lease possibilities aren't there on a building just 2 stories higher.  Do you just keep that a dive bar with some shitshow 'office space' above it.  If it's historic registry, you can't do shit either way.  But your first matrix box is CVC, historic.  Second is CVC, non-historic.  Third is non-CVC, historic.  Fourth is non-CVC, non-historic.  Obviously I'm simplifying, but also-I'm not.  And then the asterisk at the bottom of the matrix is Agent Smith and which ones can you combine into a tear-down/blended vertical re-development.  That's where the real fun begins, that's where your hotel projects occur.  Even the historic protected ones, you can finish out their top ~2-ish floors (some have mezz, some are pure walk-ups with no stops).  A lot of it is already settled, except the two blocks immediately east of IH-35 around Waller Creek because you have so many other players in that space between Greenway, Rainey, DAA, et. al.  

The street as we know it won't be there in 2030.  Unless Adler fucks this up.  Which he will.  

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On 3/21/2022 at 12:55 PM, crash_davis said:

6th street used to be college students and out of town weekend vacationers. most everyone was in a good mood enjoying a night of drinking and bar hopping.

now sixth street is full of people who want to do nothing but cause trouble. i'll be surprised if any of the shooters in the past 2 years ever stepped foot inside a bar or spent money buying a single drink. they should charge $40 admission to 6th street. you can use that money towards drinks credits in the bars. that alone would get rid of much of the unsavory elements. 

In my day (1987-1991), Sixth St. had four lanes of cars flowing between two lane of parallel parking. You had to walk on the sidewalks to get anywhere. The street was only blocked for huge nights like Halloween, which were fun. There were certainly some folks just hanging out on the corners, but for the most part you actually had to get in somewhere and spend some money to have fun. Blocking off the street every weekend moved the action to the street, and changed the economics and the demographics.

Bernard

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13 hours ago, Bernard said:

In my day (1987-1991), Sixth St. had four lanes of cars flowing between two lane of parallel parking. You had to walk on the sidewalks to get anywhere. The street was only blocked for huge nights like Halloween, which were fun. There were certainly some folks just hanging out on the corners, but for the most part you actually had to get in somewhere and spend some money to have fun. Blocking off the street every weekend moved the action to the street, and changed the economics and the demographics.

Bernard

Another change was some clubs allowing minors in the door.  I think it was one specific owner who opened up all his venues to minors.  You never really saw the underage crowd on 6th until that happened and it wasn't the underage crowd you'd want to be around.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Another change was some clubs allowing minors in the door.  I think it was one specific owner who opened up all his venues to minors.  You never really saw the underage crowd on 6th until that happened and it wasn't the underage crowd you'd want to be around.

Paradox was the only club I can remember that was 18+ and it was a stupid dance club.

I missed Lobo’s responses, thanks for the informative, inside fastball.

Once Dirty 6th is no longer dirty, Austin will be completely a memory of what once was.

That said, having it a little less dirty than it is today and reverting it back to the 90/00 level dirty would be ideal to all of us who went to UT but don’t want to live in Austin and would never willingly live in Austin again, but don’t want it to change either because we are irrational and gatekeepers of what is best for others from afar, which is of course what we experienced.

Edited by TurkeyChew
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/23/2022 at 2:54 PM, CooterBrown said:

Another change was some clubs allowing minors in the door.  I think it was one specific owner who opened up all his venues to minors.  You never really saw the underage crowd on 6th until that happened and it wasn't the underage crowd you'd want to be around.

This is somewhat accurate.  In the late 90's early 00's, the Yassine brothers bought a bunch of bars down on 6th and made many of them 18+, starting with Treasure Island. Pure Ultra Lounge was another on on Dirty 6th - a buddy was the GM there and had told me he had to get out of there ASAP because it was an obvious money laundering business.  Everything was in cash and they were packed every weekend, but you couldn't find them on the TABC list for alcohol sold.  This is the group who was later busted for cocaine trafficking and 79 other illegal activities about 10yrs back.  They aren't the only ones who did the underage deal though - there was another bigger bar on the NW corner of 6th and Neches that opened right around that time and was 18+ and was the first place I remember where there were always tons of people hanging out outside the bar and generally being leeches. As far as I recall, the Yassines didn't have anything to do w/ that one, and they only had a handful of bars on 6th/Trinity/5th, but other bars followed their lead.

At the same time, the Warehouse District was growing and the 30+ crowd moved west, so the "adults", as it were, left the kids to fend for themselves, and the result was not exactly surprising. I have often wondered if Dirty 6th would have remained that mostly safe, fun space I thought it was in the 90's if Cedar Street and Red Fez and Oslo and 219 and Cuba Libre hadn't happened.  Obviously not, as Austin's growth meant there had to be more places to drink than just 6th, but you know what I mean.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2012-05-18/the-yassine-sixth-street-noir/all/

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