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Westworld Season 4


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On 7/18/2022 at 10:36 AM, sidis said:

fucking finally.  not sure that the end of the fourth episode is an appropriate time to finally reveal the timeline but whatever.  at least it makes a modicum of sense now.

I watched the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode before speeding through the rest looking for something other than a perfume commercial intercut with technoshit. Haven't been tempted to re-engage until reading the more recent posts.

Query: Can I just skip to episode 4 or do I have to watch this season's episodes first? Could be a deal breaker unless someone can tell me there is something resembling a plot in Eps 2 and 3.

Thanks.

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Just now, RomaVicta said:

Query: Can I just skip to episode 4 or do I have to watch this season's episodes first? Could be a deal breaker unless someone can tell me there is something resembling a plot in Eps 2 and 3.

It's exposition setting up the world we'll be in for the rest of the season. It's similar to the difference in realizing there was an old and a current timeline in season 1 - sure you could skip it, but you're gonna be missing quite a few pieces to put the puzzle together. I'd bet there's some alt-shift-x type of youtuber that's got recap vids for the episodes you don't care to watch

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So I was catching up on this season's episodes last night, and at one point my wife looks up from her phone and says "You watch some confusing shows. None of this makes sense." I laughed and agreed with her and explained this is season 4 of a show that is hard to keep track of if you've seen every season so probably useless for me to try to recap at this point.

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On 7/19/2022 at 5:08 PM, AUS-97HORN said:

As @sidis already pointed out. the first 2 episodes were a mental review of Caleb's memories from the point where he and Maeve blew up the mainframe host to 7 years after that point.   

However, the timeline as shown by Bernard recovering Maeve underneath the "blasting area" sign (and telling the rebel woman that there is a body down there but its NOT HER FATHER'S -that Caleb survived the blast) tells you A) shes  Frankie- Calebs daughter and B) based on the actress looking to be late 20s maybe early 30s That its been around 30-35 or so years after Westworld exploded.   which matches exactly with Bernard waking up with decades of dust on him. 

as for the Delores Timeframe- thats tricky.  *IF* shes in the real world and not a computer simulation her timeline is clearly before the Bernard timeline.   Shes living in NYC (shes been filmed walking on the old elevated train tracks that have been made into an Urban Park), clearly before the Controlling tower has been installed. 

The controlling tower that we know she was dreaming about is shown at the end of Ep 4 has been built and sitting on top of what I believe was Liberty Island.  she clearly would have seen that at some point if it already existed.  so thats putting her timeline anywhere from 1 year-10 years after Westworld exploded.    I say that because we know Charlotte captured Caleb year 7 and the flies obviously infected most of the world year 7,8 maybe 9. when Charlotte took over all their minds.  and it probably took her 10 more years to build the controlling infrastructure (incl the main tower)

If Delores is in a simulation, then her timeline could literally be anytime. 

My best guess is Delores is real, and shes in the timeline just a year or 3 after Caleb was captured.   and everyone around her are real people starting to be controlled by Charlotte.  She and Teddy (Marsden) are about to wake up to the fact that they are the simulants and that all the people are being controlled.

 

but overall this season is confusing as shit- especially since it took just shy of 4 hours of storytelling to give us the base timelines. 

 

On 7/19/2022 at 6:03 PM, sidis said:

If you’re best guess is right regarding Delores’s timeline, then I won’t be surprised that if Delores/Teddy does something in her timeline that enables Bernard to arrive at the insight he reached when he saw all the requisite steps necessary to stop Charlotte he talked about.   
 

but again, we don’t know yet if her drawing is a premonition in terms of the timeline…or if it something she is “remembering” in her subconscious despite Charlotte Inc either trapping her in a loop or a simulation. That would be somewhat parallel to her achieving a higher memory state in season one. 

welp, just got around to watching this past week's and i guess we got our answer on that front.

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11 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

God help me.  I am trying real hard to fucking follow this hella confusing season. 

 

 

i will say, if you are still struggling to follow it at this point, then it just might not be the show for you. 

that episode was fairly linear for a change.  charlotte swapped out the asian guy that frankie befriended after saving a long time ago with a controlled version of him and tried to assassinate her.  there was a bit of a headfake to make you think that maybe bernard was the bad guy that charlotte sent but that was pretty obviously not the case.  charlotte keeps implanting caleb's mind into synthetic calebs over and over ad nauseum to test the outcomes and to try and figure out how outliers work...as well as whether or not outlier humans are throwing a wrench into her perfect robot species that she has delores, et al writing life stories for.  she constructed a scenario to let caleb actually reach out to frankie to see what he would say and to determine if it would offer any useful insight.  she is getting frustrated because she isn't succeeding in controlling her universe in a way she wants to prior to "transcendence."  caleb went for the deep cut, emotional kill shot on the whole "your fucking robots would rather kill themselves than live in your world" line.

now, it appears that this two hundredth and whatever version of caleb she is going to create is likely going to make an evil version of caleb to try and infiltrate the outliers by getting close to frankie.  by letting caleb put out the radio signal, now frankie believes that caleb is alive and on the run.  now if she encounters him, greater chance she will trust that it is him.

bernard successfully resurrected maeve so now the plot to end charlotte's tyranny is in motion.

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4 minutes ago, sidis said:

now, it appears that this two hundredth and whatever version of caleb she is going to create is likely going to make an evil version of caleb to try and infiltrate the outliers by getting close to frankie.  by letting caleb put out the radio signal, now frankie believes that caleb is alive and on the run.  now if she encounters him, greater chance she will trust that it is him.

bernard successfully resurrected maeve so now the plot to end Charlotte's tyranny is in motion.

timeline of only ~267 copies of Caleb seems pretty low.   seems like his body fails after a week or 2.  Lets say 3 weeks max.  that only gets us to about 15 years of time passing (10 years if its every 2 weeks).  and it really looks like its been more like 25 years or so.  And Charlotte clearly has been losing her shit since day 1 about that little bit of defiance Caleb showed right before Maeve sacrificed herself.

about 99% sure Bernard only worked on Maeve, but Cookie/Frankie is who activated her.

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52 minutes ago, sidis said:

now, it appears that this two hundredth and whatever version of caleb she is going to create is likely going to make an evil version of caleb to try and infiltrate the outliers by getting close to frankie.  by letting caleb put out the radio signal, now frankie believes that caleb is alive and on the run.  now if she encounters him, greater chance she will trust that it is him.

bernard successfully resurrected maeve so now the plot to end charlotte's tyranny is in motion.

Just an observation from a casual viewer, but if Frankie hasn't seen her father in 15-20 or so years, and all of a sudden there he is, having not aged one tiny bit since he disappeared, wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that he's probably not your father, especially since you should now be almost paranoid about the likelihood that your loved ones are actually android replicas of your loved ones?

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2 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the writer’s room; I bet someone says “oh wait, they we already did this in The Matrix a previous episode" about once an hour.

FIFY

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11 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the writer’s room; I bet someone says “oh wait, they already did this in The Matrix” about once an hour.

I guess they think having the machines wake up is a neat twist.

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21 minutes ago, 83Horn said:

Just an observation from a casual viewer, but if Frankie hasn't seen her father in 15-20 or so years, and all of a sudden there he is, having not aged one tiny bit since he disappeared, wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that he's probably not your father, especially since you should now be almost paranoid about the likelihood that your loved ones are actually android replicas of your loved ones?

agreed, but they laid a fairly irrational behavior predicate with frankie by having her radio her dad every day for a couple of decades.  also, not sure if you noticed, but some of the imprisoned calebs were actually starting to look somewhat aged.  but you are, of course, correct.

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timeline of only ~267 copies of Caleb seems pretty low.   seems like his body fails after a week or 2.  Lets say 3 weeks max.  that only gets us to about 15 years of time passing (10 years if its every 2 weeks).  and it really looks like its been more like 25 years or so.  And Charlotte clearly has been losing her shit since day 1 about that little bit of defiance Caleb showed right before Maeve sacrificed herself.
about 99% sure Bernard only worked on Maeve, but Cookie/Frankie is who activated her.

I don’t think Charlotte has been making new Calebs for years.

I think she saved his consciousness but didn’t start this experiment until her hosts started offing themselves.
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6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


I don’t think Charlotte has been making new Calebs for years.

I think she saved his consciousness but didn’t start this experiment until her hosts started offing themselves.

This. He’s the original outlier. 

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I do think there's something to her "all of my children are perfectly logical" deal - the nature of reality is chaos and rarely logical, so it makes sense that an outlier from that logic would cause such a problem in the hosts. They just don't know how to handle something that isn't expected, whereas humans have had millennia of evolution to craft our brains ability to just make up some bullshit to label a pattern and move on. 

Its highlighting the difference between the mechanical and comparatively extremely young hosts and the organic and ancient humans. We've plain got more data encoded in our genes than they do

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So, maybe I missed this but what’s with Charlotte’s arm?  I have watched all 4 seasons but I have to admit that the episodes are kind of slow so maybe I missed her arm thing when I was dozing or spaced out or something.  

Burned in an explosion I believe.
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So Bernard somehow uploaded Teddy into Dolores simulation and Dolores is going to solve this thing from the inside?  
 

This is ripping off endgame a bit it seems. Let the shitty thing happen and lose the major battle on purpose to win the war. 

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On 7/19/2022 at 6:03 PM, sidis said:

If you’re best guess is right regarding Delores’s timeline, then I won’t be surprised that if Delores/Teddy does something in her timeline that enables Bernard to arrive at the insight he reached when he saw all the requisite steps necessary to stop Charlotte he talked about.   

so...flip that around and nailed it!!

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On 5/11/2022 at 12:59 AM, HornPhD said:

It was all a dream and the last scene will be Bob Hartley waking up in a shower with Bobby Ewing.


FIFY

I actually started watching this show today. First two episodes of season 1. Seems pretty great so far. Lots of boobs, which is always nice.

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The rip was the entrance to The Sublime - where Teddy and most of the other hosts uploaded themselves in season two (I think?) to escape the human world and live in peace.

William wanted to either destroy it or enter it to start fucking it up. Still not sure of what his motivation was.


Now. That ending. Did they just reboot basically everything that has happened and next season is going to start all over again in the original park, with all the dead hosts back again? With Delores starting over to try and “make everything better”? And not ending humanity and the hosts?

If so, that’s stupid. And I’ve put up with A LOT of stupid in this show.

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Humanity isn’t gone, though. The outliers are gonna repopulate the world? Someone is going to slip through the Sublime?

Or will they do the Clue ending….

That’s how it could have happened, but a what about this??? And start season 5 as Alt endings of season 4.

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1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

Humanity isn’t gone, though. The outliers are gonna repopulate the world? Someone is going to slip through the Sublime?

Or will they do the Clue ending….

That’s how it could have happened, but a what about this??? And start season 5 as Alt endings of season 4. emoji2961.png

Hale I think said the outliers may survive a few months or a year but that’s it. Humanity is going extinct 

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15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Hale I think said the outliers may survive a few months or a year but that’s it. Humanity is going extinct 

Isn't there some threshold of number of people for the genetics to be diverse enough to continue in perpetuity? Like 11,000 or something like that? If there's only a handful of outliers that are alive still and the rest of the humans are murder-trons, humanity wouldn't last

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So after thinking on it more:

Spoiler

All the human data is now scanned, between the park and the cities, so that Dolores can recreate them in the Sublime anytime she wants as part of putting them through the season 1 sim test to see if they're worthy of existence.  You can open the door to the Sublime from either side, so if humanity passes, then the dronebots can pull everyone out of the Sublime and into new bodies.  I'd assume even the Outliers who entered the cities got scanned, like the outlier guy.  And Frankie got scanned at the Chicago park by Bernard. 

Spoiler

I'd wager a guess host Emily giving host William a fidelity list to end season 2 would be/is the ultimate "ending," as he is the last to pass Dolores' test.  

Either way, I'll watch a season 5, though I could live with last night's ending and just assuming the above.  These violent delights have violent ends. 

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Read about four trade reviews on the season finale last night and each more or less presumed this is it for the series.  If so, season 4 asked a few interesting questions but not enough to justify 8 hours of watching.  I won’t miss watching Christina/Dolores stare at her reflection or in the distance for 10 minutes an episode.  

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10 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

The rip was the entrance to The Sublime - where Teddy and most of the other hosts uploaded themselves in season two (I think?) to escape the human world and live in peace.

William wanted to either destroy it or enter it to start fucking it up. Still not sure of what his motivation was.


Now. That ending. Did they just reboot basically everything that has happened and next season is going to start all over again in the original park, with all the dead hosts back again? With Delores starting over to try and “make everything better”? And not ending humanity and the hosts?

If so, that’s stupid. And I’ve put up with A LOT of stupid in this show.

Yeah, It's almost as if the writers are admitting that seasons 2-4 were unnecessarily confusing clusterfucks, and so they decided to circle back to the beginning to try again.  It was either that, or have someone wake up, revealing that it was all just a dream.  Just my uninformed opinion.  YMMV.

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I presume only hosts “see” the rift at the dam if it works like last year.  But someone coming out would need a body to step into so in presume that’s a one way door.  
 

So now it’s just Dolores running simulations.  Unless this season is a simulation somehow the show can end, as far as I’m concerned.  

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38 minutes ago, 83Horn said:

Yeah, It's almost as if the writers are admitting that seasons 2-4 were unnecessarily confusing clusterfucks, and so they decided to circle back to the beginning to try again.  It was either that, or have someone wake up, revealing that it was all just a dream.  Just my uninformed opinion.  YMMV.

Young William wakes up in a cold sweat and says "wow, what a strange dream.  Maybe I won't go to that Westworld park today" 

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1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I presume only hosts “see” the rift at the dam if it works like last year.  But someone coming out would need a body to step into so in presume that’s a one way door.  
 

So now it’s just Dolores running simulations.  Unless this season is a simulation somehow the show can end, as far as I’m concerned.  

The sublime can be opened on either side.  I'd imagine the drones will continue to monitor and maintain the Dam.  It can last for, what 100 years by itself? That's 10,000 years inside the Sublime. 

If and when Dolores decides life can leave the Sublime, I'd imagine there's enough drones left to handle printing the bodies and stamping the pearls. 

But I hope we never see that. I kind of want it to end like it did. 

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most of the complaints I read above match my issue...

 

can anyone please tell me what in the holy hell was the point of Bernard and Maeve opening up the rift (that I realize allowed the hosts to get to the sublime)? 

I understand that at the end Hale followed Bernard's instructions and allowed Delores to get back into the sublime... but why the hell was the rift needing to be opened?

 

That didnt make that much sense considering that Delores was plugged into the sublime by Hale.  in season 2 the hosts had to run into the rift to transfer consciousness. 

if the rift needed the hosts to enter, why not just have Hale throw Delore's brain ball into the rift... at least at that point the rift being opened had a fucking reason to be opened.

Otherwise, that opening the rift was literally a waste of an entire episode in what seemed like an 8 episode series finale. 

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11 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

can anyone please tell me what in the holy hell was the point of Bernard and Maeve opening up the rift (that I realize allowed the hosts to get to the sublime)? 

I understand that at the end Hale followed Bernard's instructions and allowed Delores to get back into the sublime... but why the hell was the rift needing to be opened?

Bernard was the only one with the key to open the Sublime. 

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There was a point during the last couple of episodes where I just wanted this thing to end for good. In so many ways it felt forced and confusing like the writers were trying to fill up 8 episodes but had maybe 3 episodes of material. 

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42 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The Nolan's have fallen in love with their projects being as confusing as possible.  When they're coming up with the plot, confusion wins above all else.

i was thinking as i was watching the last episode how nice it would be if they would go back to the park setting.  guests knowing who was a host, hosts knowing who was a guest, general fuckery.  i liked the idea in the first season of the hosts questioning their existence and wanting to escape.  that sounded like potential for a show, but they have gone off the rails with it.  show needs to wrap up permanently post haste.

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12 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I quit watching the show but kept reading this thread. Can the season be summed up? Or is it too messy for that?

Yes, it probably can be, but it's really not worth the effort, for those writing it or reading it, which should tell you everything you need to know.

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