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Posted
14 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Looking from field level that safety looks like an issue. He is deep enough to get his hands on a laser if he drops then jumps. It's a throw he can make though but the window is tighter than it appears from a higher camera view. Either way it wasn't a terrible read. I wouldn't have thrown it in that situation for sure. Also, why don't we have sight adjustment on routes. If Golden sits when he clears the LB its an easy pitch and catch. As soon as we see zone we should have sight adjustments.

Or just make a good throw to the deep guy who is wide open and not float a pass that gets intercepted and your guy destroyed.

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Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Who would have guessed ThatGuy wouldn't blame Quinn

I said I wouldn't throw that ball. What do you think that means? You are reaching. If you give me a safe 1st down throw to Golden or a deep throw between two safeties guess who I am throwing it to?

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Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

I said I wouldn't throw that ball. What do you think that means? You are reaching. If you give me a safe 1st down throw to Golden or a deep throw between two safeties guess who I am throwing it to?

Should be an easy touchdown, no way defender closes and hits Bond if the ball is put on em.

Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Or just make a good throw to the deep guy who is wide open and not float a pass that gets intercepted and your guy destroyed.

Or just throw the 1st down ball.

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Posted

Also looks like he had plenty of room to run for the first down, but I realize he's got a lot of shit he's keeping up with and scrambling is typically a last option for him.  But in that game situation, you take a sure first down every single time 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Should be an easy touchdown, no way defender closes and hits Bond if the ball is put on em.

That ball traveled 45 yards in the air. The safety met the ball where it was. If you throw it flatter he just adjusts his meeting point. You are judging it in a vacuum. The DB is on top of the receiver so the ball has to be thrown away from him and into the incoming safety. I think the throw is dangerous and I would throw the under route especially considering it was our best and most sure-handed receiver. Either way the blame is on Quinn.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

I get frustrated with the lack of sight adjustments because we make offense hard. As soon as you see it's zone you should be finding space to sit down. Every week we see other offenses doing this. Making easy throws to stationary WRs in an empty zone or even on the outside when there is too much cushion the QB just turns and throws it. We do none of that. That's why I don't worry about Quinn at the next level. He throws a shitty deep ball but his reads are generally good.

Yeah that seems like a feature, not a bug, of a Sark offense. Maybe he'll evolve little by little and incorporate some of that, but if I remember correctly, when he was hired, one of his big priorities was getting guys the ball in space and on the run. I think he even specifically said something about not wanting guys to be stationary when they got the ball.

I know there's plenty of Quinn haters on this thread that say "hE hAS nO NFL fuTuRe!!!!" I'd like to remind everyone that Spencer fucking Rattler has thrown for over 1,000 yards in the NFL this season and Skylar Thompson has over 100 career completions. Making an NFL roster is not that hard of a bar to clear for a QB with experience and a willingness to study and improve. 

Will he ever win a super bowl or be an All-Pro? Eh, who the hell knows. But he's got the tools to be on a roster and get playing time for several years.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

That ball traveled 45 yards in the air. The safety met the ball where it was. If you throw it flatter he just adjusts his meeting point. You are judging it in a vacuum. The DB is on top of the receiver so the ball has to be thrown away from him and into the incoming safety. I think the throw is dangerous and I would throw the under route especially considering it was our best and most sure-handed receiver. Either way the blame is on Quinn.

My guy, the ball was floated like amother fucker and allowed that. You can argue that he should have went to golden, sure. But there is no way you can sit there and say Quinn didn't float that ball on a shitty pass.

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
25 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It's a throw he can make though but the window is tighter than it appears from a higher camera view.

The middle of the field is wide open with only the ref standing there. Not only does the camera add 10 pounds, it makes Quinn’s throwing windows look wider than they actually appear.
IMG_1005.jpeg.5b96219ecd3a6e46366634e5d9bb3a4d.jpeg

Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

My guy, the ball was floated like amother fucker and allowed that. You can argue that he should have went to golden, sure. But there is no way you can sit there and say Quinn didn't float that ball on a shitty pass.

What the actual fuck are you talking about? I told you already I wouldn't throw that pass no matter the ball trajectory. I already admitted it was a bad throw. Why are you still arguing something I'm not even talking about? If he throws that ball flatter he completes it a step or two sooner and the receiver still gets blown up. Throw the under with some pace and Golden is in the open field ready to make a move on the last two secondary guys with Bond as a blocker. You throw the same ball you threw to start the game and you get the same result.

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Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

What the actual fuck are you talking about? I told you already I wouldn't throw that pass no matter the ball trajectory. I already admitted it was a bad throw. Why are you still arguing something I'm not even talking about? If he throws that ball flatter he completes it a step or two sooner and the receiver still gets blown up. Throw the under with some pace and Golden is in the open field ready to make a move on the last two secondary guys with Bond as a blocker. You throw the same ball you threw to start the game and you get the same result.

Cause you're a pussy

Posted
18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

What the actual fuck are you talking about? I told you already I wouldn't throw that pass no matter the ball trajectory. I already admitted it was a bad throw. Why are you still arguing something I'm not even talking about? If he throws that ball flatter he completes it a step or two sooner and the receiver still gets blown up. Throw the under with some pace and Golden is in the open field ready to make a move on the last two secondary guys with Bond as a blocker. You throw the same ball you threw to start the game and you get the same result.

He literally can’t read

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Posted
14 hours ago, Codaxx said:

It more than that. I think they had him outside the top 100 QBs in college football. That is a bold statement. One thing to say they think he under-achieved and been mediocre this year. Its another to say he is in the bottom 20 percentile of all college starters.

I’ve been trying to learn more about it but not sure they’d want the ultimate formula known.

I have not looked at overall ranks since this past game, but he’s likely jumped up a fair amount after Clemson and ASU I’d think.

His turnover worthy plays is pretty high.  His big time throws has been low.  From what I recall, his intermediate grade was not good and his deep ball grade was pretty solid but not spectacular.  The big time throws come in those categories whereas the turnover worthy ones come at any depth.  His sack rate per pressure may be high again.  His pressure rate is relatively low.  I don’t have numbers to support but he’s not really a create his own play guy.  So not only is he not getting the big time throws he’s not getting plus grading out of his running or sack avoidance.  

The formula is the same for all so the methodology doesn’t dislike Quinn. Every play of every game is watched.  Unlike the fan that thinks they have a grasp on who does what best.

At one point, I had read there’s an element to the grading that effectively says just cause you got a sack doesn’t mean you get a positive grade.  Maybe it’s just neutral because the expectation is that everyone would have done the same.  If so, id speculate we have a relatively high rate of neutral plays.

For me, it’s difficult to reconcile his game.  For sure in the college game, I don’t care about arm strength.  The very biggest, most important play that he’s made was the 4th and 13. And his arm had little to do with it.  It really wasn’t a good throw but rather the mental was what made the play.  And Sark is very good at setting up easy QB plays.  The Oline is very good in pass protection.  Very few, if any, have had faster, more dependable pass catchers.  Fans generally critically review their own so their view is we sucked versus Georgia.  That’s every week for some QBs.  Oh our pass catchers dropped balls.  Again, so do most others not named Ohio State, Clemson included.

Name me one play in Ewers career in which he did like Leavitt on that Jahdae free rush.  Made him completely whiff then got outside Moore and got rid of it moving to his left no less with Taaffe bearing down on him. It was a tough catch but Golden made about 3 catches that I’d consider similar.  At the end of the game, that shows as 0-1 for the QB on that play but hard to blame him.  It looks terrible in the rating.  Not sure how it goes on QBR. I cannot imagine it being a negative on PFF and would actually view as a positive as he evaded a near certain sack.

Stats be damned.  PFF grading be damned.  His goal is to win.  He doesn’t have to do it alone.  He never has while here.  He has to make 5-10 plays a game, and we’re good.  Maybe a few more versus Ohio State.  At this point it can be ugly.  We’re not necessarily fixing anything at this juncture.  Just execute enough colllectively to win.

Posted
3 hours ago, Had Enough said:

I’ve been trying to learn more about it but not sure they’d want the ultimate formula known.

I have not looked at overall ranks since this past game, but he’s likely jumped up a fair amount after Clemson and ASU I’d think.

His turnover worthy plays is pretty high.  His big time throws has been low.  From what I recall, his intermediate grade was not good and his deep ball grade was pretty solid but not spectacular.  The big time throws come in those categories whereas the turnover worthy ones come at any depth.  His sack rate per pressure may be high again.  His pressure rate is relatively low.  I don’t have numbers to support but he’s not really a create his own play guy.  So not only is he not getting the big time throws he’s not getting plus grading out of his running or sack avoidance.  

The formula is the same for all so the methodology doesn’t dislike Quinn. Every play of every game is watched.  Unlike the fan that thinks they have a grasp on who does what best.

At one point, I had read there’s an element to the grading that effectively says just cause you got a sack doesn’t mean you get a positive grade.  Maybe it’s just neutral because the expectation is that everyone would have done the same.  If so, id speculate we have a relatively high rate of neutral plays.

For me, it’s difficult to reconcile his game.  For sure in the college game, I don’t care about arm strength.  The very biggest, most important play that he’s made was the 4th and 13. And his arm had little to do with it.  It really wasn’t a good throw but rather the mental was what made the play.  And Sark is very good at setting up easy QB plays.  The Oline is very good in pass protection.  Very few, if any, have had faster, more dependable pass catchers.  Fans generally critically review their own so their view is we sucked versus Georgia.  That’s every week for some QBs.  Oh our pass catchers dropped balls.  Again, so do most others not named Ohio State, Clemson included.

Name me one play in Ewers career in which he did like Leavitt on that Jahdae free rush.  Made him completely whiff then got outside Moore and got rid of it moving to his left no less with Taaffe bearing down on him. It was a tough catch but Golden made about 3 catches that I’d consider similar.  At the end of the game, that shows as 0-1 for the QB on that play but hard to blame him.  It looks terrible in the rating.  Not sure how it goes on QBR. I cannot imagine it being a negative on PFF and would actually view as a positive as he evaded a near certain sack.

Stats be damned.  PFF grading be damned.  His goal is to win.  He doesn’t have to do it alone.  He never has while here.  He has to make 5-10 plays a game, and we’re good.  Maybe a few more versus Ohio State.  At this point it can be ugly.  We’re not necessarily fixing anything at this juncture.  Just execute enough colllectively to win.

I agree with everything you said. I was just wondering what about Ewers’ game that has PFF so far from the consensus. Is it Sark’s ability to design wide window 1st read throws? The high frequency of screen and short throws? You can add those to things you mentioned. I think sack/pressure rate has to be a big component. To me it’s just odd that it has become one of the most quoted measures of the quality of play, but we know so little about it 

Posted
8 hours ago, Thatguy said:

That ball traveled 45 yards in the air. The safety met the ball where it was. If you throw it flatter he just adjusts his meeting point. You are judging it in a vacuum. The DB is on top of the receiver so the ball has to be thrown away from him and into the incoming safety. I think the throw is dangerous and I would throw the under route especially considering it was our best and most sure-handed receiver. Either way the blame is on Quinn.

That isn one thing being ignored. Bond is locked up by the CB on this. At no point is the corner out of phase. The last picture it is hard to find the CB, because he is dead lock step with Bond (over the top). There is safety help. It’s not the throw you are looking for in that situation. Trailing with 6 minutes to go, you can argue about taking a shot. Leading by 8 with 6 minutes to go priority #1 is ball security and priority #2 is the first down. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Had Enough said:

It really wasn’t a good throw

You make some decent points but the one I quoted wasn't one of them. You might be one of like 5 people to have seen that play on the planet and think it "really wasn't a good throw".

Posted
23 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

That isn one thing being ignored. Bond is locked up by the CB on this. At no point is the corner out of phase. The last picture it is hard to find the CB, because he is dead lock step with Bond (over the top). There is safety help. It’s not the throw you are looking for in that situation. Trailing with 6 minutes to go, you can argue about taking a shot. Leading by 8 with 6 minutes to go priority #1 is ball security and priority #2 is the first down. 

Here's a split second later in the video. After Quinn releases it, Bond accelerates away from the CB and has at least two steps on him and is running away from him

VideoCapture_20250104-045138.jpg.608c0a898542a1aae8692f80a1985f42.jpg

I think it was the right read and the space was there, just needed less float on it.

Posted
10 hours ago, TheBryMan81 said:

I know there's plenty of Quinn haters on this thread that say "hE hAS nO NFL fuTuRe!!!!" I'd like to remind everyone that Spencer fucking Rattler has thrown for over 1,000 yards in the NFL this season and Skylar Thompson has over 100 career completions. Making an NFL roster is not that hard of a bar to clear for a QB with experience and a willingness to study and improve. 

Will he ever win a super bowl or be an All-Pro? Eh, who the hell knows. But he's got the tools to be on a roster and get playing time for several years.

Good post- this was the point of my tongue in cheek Stephen McGee comparison upthread. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, TheBryMan81 said:

Here's the entire play on skycam

 

 

I know this is the Quinn thread, but this play really shows Hayden Connor at his best.  I don't think he makes contact with anybody and just kind of stands there.  Maybe that is just the play call/ way the defense lined up and he did a good job, but I see way too many times where a run or pass play get blown up and number 76 basically whiffed and didn't touch anybody and is just standing around. 

Posted
1 hour ago, NOOBSDUDE said:

As far as legacy goes, if he beats Ohio st and just makes it to the Natl Championship game he surpasses colt for #2 in my lifetime. 

It makes me feel old that there are posters who weren’t alive when Colt McCoy played for the Longhorns.

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Posted
1 hour ago, TheBryMan81 said:

Here's a split second later in the video. After Quinn releases it, Bond accelerates away from the CB and has at least two steps on him and is running away from him

VideoCapture_20250104-045138.jpg.608c0a898542a1aae8692f80a1985f42.jpg

I think it was the right read and the space was there, just needed less float on it.

We can disagree. I think he has 3 options here. Bond/Golden/Wisner in flat. Given the circumstances I don’t like picking the tightest window throw. I get the less float argument, but that is a scorpion and frog thing. The float is just who Quinn is 

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Posted (edited)

When it comes to great catches, don't forget the Eddie Phillips to Cotton Speyrer 50-yarder with 12 seconds left to continue an almost unheard of 23-game winning streak. The Nat'l Champ Horns extended that streak to about 32 before 9 fumbles (IIRC) doomed us against Notre Dame in what was essentially the 1970 Nat'l Championship Game.

image.thumb.jpeg.374009dba6782907643e3f2d521d52a1.jpeg

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
Posted

Want to give credit to Ewers as well for his 3rd down TD run to put us up 24-8. 

The frustration with Quinn has been the inability to just make a play at crucial points of a game. To be fair, he hasn't had a ton of opportunities the way things played out this year. But he was making huge plays throughout 4th quarter and OT. Respect. 

 

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Posted
12 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Also looks like he had plenty of room to run for the first down, but I realize he's got a lot of shit he's keeping up with and scrambling is typically a last option for him.  But in that game situation, you take a sure first down every single time 

Or... an OC you script that play to BE a QB run first option. You don't get the first the clock runs. Lanes blocked throw a good pass. Just thinking out loud here but run first is on 2 and 4 is how my brain works that late in the game.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Want to give credit to Ewers as well for his 3rd down TD run to put us up 24-8. 

The frustration with Quinn has been the inability to just make a play at crucial points of a game. To be fair, he hasn't had a ton of opportunities the way things played out this year. But he was making huge plays throughout 4th quarter and OT. Respect. 

 

Quinn made some mistakes this game, but the vast majority of the issues with ASU are absolutely on Sark. Quinn also played lights out when it mattered most so agree. 

We just can't have coaching and QB blunders like we did against ASU and hope beat OSU. We fucking won't. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I know this is the Quinn thread, but this play really shows Hayden Connor at his best.  I don't think he makes contact with anybody and just kind of stands there.  Maybe that is just the play call/ way the defense lined up and he did a good job, but I see way too many times where a run or pass play get blown up and number 76 basically whiffed and didn't touch anybody and is just standing around. 

That pass-pro line call is executed damn near perfectly, and Connor's job there was to hold that QB blindside gap and to NOT overpursue for contact's sake and leave a shot to Quinn's spine available. Banks didn't need the help + his guy going outside anyway initially. Majors didn't need anymore help than a right-hand shove (which Connor provided). As Quinn is throwing, Connor's head is looking at the DE who is rolling inside on Banks while keeping a hand on Major's guy. Great help work from Connor.

The only real fuck-up here is Helm. Hopped outside an inside-pursuit defender and then whipped inside. (And maybe Hutson should've been less aggressive on Majors's guy.)

Posted
23 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Want to give credit to Ewers as well for his 3rd down TD run to put us up 24-8. 

The frustration with Quinn has been the inability to just make a play at crucial points of a game. To be fair, he hasn't had a ton of opportunities the way things played out this year. But he was making huge plays throughout 4th quarter and OT. Respect. 

 

Agreed. He’s actually played really well both playoff games. Had a few what the fuck plays (missed 4th down to Golden against Clemson, INT against ASU), but overall a pretty high level of play and was absolutely nails from 5 minutes on against ASU.

He might actually be the best overall QB left in the playoffs. Howard obviously has better weapons and + mobility, but he at least equally as prone to WTF games 

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Posted
22 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Quinn made some mistakes this game, but the vast majority of the issues with ASU are absolutely on Sark. Quinn also played lights out when it mattered most so agree. 

We just can't have coaching and QB blunders like we did against ASU and hope beat OSU. We fucking won't. 

Quinn was far from perfect but yea he bailed sark out for the fourth quarter to the finish.  I don’t understand how sark is such a guru with his struggles 

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Posted
Just now, closetohumping said:

Quinn was far from perfect but yea he bailed sark out for the fourth quarter to the finish.  I don’t understand how sark is such a guru with his struggles 

Well, for starters, we don't know if it's the play-calling or in-game adjustments (ie audibles) that aren't being made.

On 4th & 13, QE did everything right. What plays should he check into on downs when he doesn't get the look Sark is expecting? Did the OL/pass pro miss an assignment? Did the receivers switch to a hot route when necessary? Many unknown variables to consider.

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Posted

Seems to me the window for that INT throw was incredibly tight.  Don't lead Bond (esp with the float)?  Pursuing CB makes the INT.  Put it out in front?  Closing safety has a chance.

I'm in agreement that Ewers should have gone with the shorter throw to Golden that would have locked up a first down.  But, crossing route, which is mostly anathema to Ewers (save maybe Helm).

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Posted
4 hours ago, TheBryMan81 said:

Here's a split second later in the video. After Quinn releases it, Bond accelerates away from the CB and has at least two steps on him and is running away from him

VideoCapture_20250104-045138.jpg.608c0a898542a1aae8692f80a1985f42.jpg

I think it was the right read and the space was there, just needed less float on it.

 

4 hours ago, Codaxx said:

That isn one thing being ignored. Bond is locked up by the CB on this. At no point is the corner out of phase. The last picture it is hard to find the CB, because he is dead lock step with Bond (over the top). There is safety help. It’s not the throw you are looking for in that situation. Trailing with 6 minutes to go, you can argue about taking a shot. Leading by 8 with 6 minutes to go priority #1 is ball security and priority #2 is the first down. 

Yep. Bond's only sep was on the break but the CB was still on top of him so he recovered.

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Posted
24 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

IMG_2074.thumb.png.3d78b457969e89420ee9740a7b2c4016.png

Ward and Shadeur are the clear top tier. Gabriel and Leonard are odd. I get PFF rating Gabriel high based on play, but it’s the physical traits that have him lower. Not sure the Leonard ranking. Beck, Milroe, and Ewers seem like the second tier. Hard to argue about the order there. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Ward and Shadeur are the clear top tier. Gabriel and Leonard are odd. I get PFF rating Gabriel high based on play, but it’s the physical traits that have him lower. Not sure the Leonard ranking. Beck, Milroe, and Ewers seem like the second tier. Hard to argue about the order there. 

Beck and Milroe can't read defenses imo.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Ward and Shadeur are the clear top tier. Gabriel and Leonard are odd. I get PFF rating Gabriel high based on play, but it’s the physical traits that have him lower. Not sure the Leonard ranking. Beck, Milroe, and Ewers seem like the second tier. Hard to argue about the order there. 

Leonard is big and mobile.  Just like Milroe 

Posted

Who the fuck is that guy?

lol that is a trash list.

Leonard… Gtfo out of here. Have any of you watched him play…. You have to be able to pass the ball. 

Will Howard…. Gtfo out of here. We have seen him enough to know who he is. 

Gabriel is going to get knocked on measurable. Very good player.

If that is the list, QE is going 3/4 depending on Gabriel. 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Leonard is big and mobile.  Just like Milroe 

lol… no. He is nothing like Milroe. Milroe is bigger, a better athlete and has a cannon…. Now maybe he likes throwing to the other team at times but he is everything Leonard wishes he was as an athlete.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Fico said:

lol… no. He is nothing like Milroe. Milroe is bigger, a better athlete and has a cannon…. Now maybe he likes throwing to the other team at times but he is everything Leonard wishes he was as an athlete.

Leonard is two inches taller.  So I wouldn’t say Milroe is bigger.  More yolked?  Ok.  How’s that working out for Richardson.  I’ll be shocked if Milton’s combine numbers are close to ARs

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