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2023 Houston Astros Thread


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26 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Maybe the club thinks less of Lee than scouts/prospect folks. I hope that’s the case, because if they don’t, then this suggests that they’ll be bad at valuing players properly. 

That part is obviously true just by the fact that Salazar got major league time this year ahead of him.  I'm somehow not convinced their catcher evaluation is all that strong having watched Maldonado and Salazar this year though.

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8 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I’m going to do y’all a solid and distract Wulaw and Hank with this

 

The fact that how maldonado feels has anything to do with Diaz not starting is so very sad to me.  Unless it's cancer.  I mean, I hope it's not cancer, unless its the kind that can get fixed in 3 months and he's fine. I will chip in for a wreath either way.  

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10 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

One conclusion you might draw from the trade is the "Stros like Salazar better as the defensive part of a platoon with Diaz.  Clearly they don't place a high priority on getting offense from the catcher. 

Or, they could feel like they don't want both their catchers to be young and they want to go sign a 34 year old or something to be there to babysit.  Or, they could be deciding they are going to offer Maldonado a 3 year deal at Montero money b/c he's obviously better than Diaz so you gots to pay for that. 

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12 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

One conclusion you might draw from the trade is the "Stros like Salazar better as the defensive part of a platoon with Diaz.  Clearly they don't place a high priority on getting offense from the catcher

Given how 2023 has played out, we can safely conclude they don’t place much of a priority on getting defense from the catcher either.

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1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

christ you guys could fuck up a wet dream.  as far as i'm concerned, this just makes the myles straw deal seem even more like an ass-raping, since yainer allowed us to deal lee and plug a hole.  there are a shit ton of young catchers out there - the prospect list is constantly full of them.  a lot of them are already up and doing jack squat.  we just had a good draft.  onward.

Who is Houston’s best catching prospect now that Diaz has graduated and Lee has been traded?  Miguel Palma?  Garret fucking Guillemette?!  Diaz and Lee were pretty much all Houston had in their system at catcher.  There may be some dude in the DSL who breaks out in 4-5 years but as of now their farm is really barren at C in terms of prospects who project to have actual MLB value.

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Who cares?

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

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1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

How many?

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9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I have a question for the resident nay sayers:

What trade(s) would you like to see happen before the deadline?

Honestly based on the prices I have seen, my move would be call up Gilbert or Loperfido to replace Julks/Meyers in the everyday lineup and call up Arrighetti to the rotation to replace Bielak and give a 6 man rotation to rest Framber/Brown/Javier for the playoffs.  Fuck trading in this heavy of a seller’s market.  Teams are mortgaging their futures.

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I have a question for the resident nay sayers:

What trade(s) would you like to see happen before the deadline?

Generally, ones that bring back *likely*  value commensurate with what you trade.

(The exception would be something like the Randy Johnson trade. That was very likely going to be a big imbalance of future value at the time is was made. It was still a good move because it brought back a guy that could have been the most important piece of a WS title. It didn’t work out, therm’s the breaks.)

With Ohtani off the market, there isn’t anyone like that. So I’d be fine with them standing pat and not chasing spare parts. Graveman is fine. I’d rather have Lee in the organization. Again, it’s not a disaster or anything, but it doesn’t seem like a particularly good move to me.

I care more about keeping the club’s floor high over the long haul than I do about short-term patches. People see it differently; that’s fine. 

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2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Who is Houston’s best catching prospect now that Diaz has graduated and Lee has been traded?  Miguel Palma?  Garret fucking Guillemette?!  Diaz and Lee were pretty much all Houston had in their system at catcher.  There may be some dude in the DSL who breaks out in 4-5 years but as of now their farm is really barren at C in terms of prospects who project to have actual MLB value.

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up. 
 

I am predicting now that in 2027 people will complain about trades that won us titles. 

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It’s going to be funny when Graveman has a shutdown 8th inning in a clinching WS game for us and everyone here will claim it was the greatest acquisition ever

Then in 2027 complain we traded Lee and mortgaged our FUTURE!!!!!!! 

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1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It’s going to be funny when Graveman has a shutdown 8th inning in a clinching WS game for us and everyone here will claim it was the greatest acquisition ever

Grave man will keep requesting that Diaz catch hiM and he’ll be dfa’d 

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Just now, David Dennison said:

aLl ThE sUcCeSsFuL pEoPlE aRe GoNe!

I guess they didn’t watch last season. I swear people are dumb as fuck. We make trade to win titles. We’ve won 2 more than I ever expected and now instead of chasing the season you’re in we’re worried about being competitive in 2026. We could go to 10 straight WS, won 5 of them and those same guys would say we are poorly run when we finally have a down season. 

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5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up. 
 

I am predicting now that in 2027 people will complain about trades that won us titles. 

Then in 2027 complain we traded Lee and mortgaged our FUTURE!!!!!!! 

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

Edited by Snake Diggity
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Just now, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.


I thought Seth beer would turn into something 

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2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

The Astros have a different plan at catcher revolving around Diaz, and JR Towles was not in those plans. My bad, Korey Lee, not Towles. I get them confused. 

 

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1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

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2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

That's because our farm system is way, way down.  Korey Lee isn't a good player.  He's not likely to ever be one.  The fact he's a top 10 guy in our system is because we traded other guys away already.  This isn't the Dodgers or Rays trading a top 10 guy away.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

Yep, everyone is so focused on "keep the window open" that they forget the goal isn't the window, it's the WS.  The window is great, but not if it's not going to result in a WS.  Ideally both happen

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1 minute ago, uoftorange said:

That's because our farm system is way, way down.  Korey Lee isn't a good player.  He's not likely to ever be one.  The fact he's a top 10 guy in our system is because we traded other guys away already.  This isn't the Dodgers or Rays trading a top 10 guy away.  

 

 

People who assess prospects for a living disagree that he’s unlikely to be good. They are sometimes wrong, of course.

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1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

I totally disagree.  Making the playoffs year after year after year is how you win rings.  Pushing all your chips in on a single season is how you doom yourself to a rebuild.  Also, if you think Kendall Graveman has any meaningful odds of being the difference in the World Series (over Seth Martinez or Montero or whoever’s roster spot he ends up taking), I have some bad news for ya.

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