Jump to content

Israel-Hamas war thread


Brisketexan

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe they are morally confused after watching the IDF for years execute midnight raids to scoop up Palestinian children from their beds in Jerusalem and the West Bank for “administrative detention”, often to leverage their detention against their relatives. 

Well that's certainly a take.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then go back in to kill as many Hamas mofos as they can, including assassinating the billionaire chickenshit leaders that live in luxury outside of Gaza.
This irks me. Obviously, I have no idea what has been discussed in the negotiations, but we know who finances hamas. A day after these attack, we should have reached out to those assholes to let them know that we know who you are, where you and your family are. Hamas has 36 hours to release all US hostages or we will begin drone strikes all financiers and their families.

It's been 7 weeks? This is absurd
  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Smax said:

This irks me. Obviously, I have no idea what has been discussed in the negotiations, but we know who finances hamas. A day after these attack, we should have reached out to those assholes to let them know that we know who you are, where you and your family are. Hamas has 36 hours to release all US hostages or we will begin drone strikes all financiers and their families.

It's been 7 weeks? This is absurd

Probably a Saudi influence in this fuckery.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Hope in one hand, consume some reports from human rights orgs in the other and see which one fills up first. 

A couple weeks ago, someone mentioned that Human Rights Watch had this report at the top of their home page. The problem is, HRW is lying. These are valid military targets. There is no war crime. HRW's credibility is nonexistent, they likely appear to sympathize with Hamas.

Their lies are deliberate and transparent.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

A couple weeks ago, someone mentioned that Human Rights Watch had this report at the top of their home page. The problem is, HRW is lying. These are valid military targets. There is no war crime. HRW's credibility is nonexistent, they likely appear to sympathize with Hamas.

Their lies are deliberate and transparent.

Cool. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the IDF snatching kids out of their beds in the middle of the night though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Whatever bad acts the Israelis may have done in the West Bank are in no way a justification for Hamas holding children hostage in Gaza. 

Just stop. 

No one said they were. Don’t cry cause your crickets chirping for the last decade of children hostage taking gets brought up. It’s funny how the shoot the fascists in the face posters catch the vapors so easily. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can say that Israel needs to end the practice of military courts or administrative detention. But of course it’s sadly to be expected that dissemblers will try to draw an equivalence between Thai farm workers, grannies, and toddlers on the one hand and a pack of attempted murderers, muggers, bomb-throwers, gunmen and assorted teenage delinquents on the other hand. 
 

 

Edited by 956 Worldwide
  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reports that we recaptured one of the 3 (or 4 now?) hijacked tankers 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/armed-individuals-seize-israeli-managed-oil-tanker-gulf-aden-us-official-2023-11-26/

Quote

Tanker in Middle East safe from attackers after US Navy responds, officials say

By Idrees Ali, Phil Stewart and Aziz El Yaakoubi

November 26, 20234:41 PM CSTUpdated 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON/RIYADH, Nov 26 (Reuters) - A U.S. Navy warship responded to a distress call from a commercial tanker in the Gulf of Aden that had been seized by armed individuals and is now safe, U.S. officials said on Sunday.

The tanker, which had been carrying a cargo of phosphoric acid, was identified as the Central Park by the vessel's company. The officials did not identify the attackers..

One of the U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the USS Mason warship had responded to the distress call and the tanker was now free.

The incident is the latest in a series of attacks in Middle Eastern waters since a brutal war between Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas broke out on Oct. 7.

It followed a seizure of an Israeli-linked cargo ship by Yemen Houthis, allies of Iran, in the southern Red Sea last week. The group, which also fired ballistic missiles and armed drones at Israel, vowed to target more Israeli vessels.

Central Park, a small chemical tanker (19,998 metric tons), is managed by Zodiac Maritime Ltd, a London-headquartered international ship management company owned by Israel's Ofer family. The Liberian-flagged vessel was built in 2015 and is owned by Clumvez Shipping Inc, LSEG data showed.

Zodiac Maritime said in a statement Central Park, which is carrying a full cargo of phosphoric acid, was involved in a suspected piracy incident while crossing international waters, approximately 54 nautical miles off the coast of Somalia.

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/24/2023 at 11:33 AM, Anastasis said:

Maybe they are morally confused after watching the IDF for years execute midnight raids to scoop up Palestinian children from their beds in Jerusalem and the West Bank for “administrative detention”, often to leverage their detention against their relatives. 

 

On 11/24/2023 at 10:53 PM, Anastasis said:

No one said they were. Don’t cry cause your crickets chirping for the last decade of children hostage taking gets brought up. It’s funny how the shoot the fascists in the face posters catch the vapors so easily. 

Shoot fascists in the face. Don’t involve children in violent political disputes. Don’t claim that is happening without supporting your claim, no matter what Putin wants you to post.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems like the Houthis used the ship as bait or took the opportunity of our ships responding to shoot some missiles at us. Luckily (for them) they were way off

U.S. Central Command has now Confirmed that 2 Ballistic Missiles were launched by the Houthi Terrorist Group in Yemen earlier tonight in the General Direction of the USS Mason (DDG-87) while it was Responding to the Distress Call of the Israeli-Linked Chemical Tanker “Central Park” in the Gulf of Aden, but they further state that it is Unknown whether the Missiles were actually attempting to Target the Ship and that they landed in the Ocean roughly 10 Nautical Miles away not warranting any kind of Interception.

 

  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Parliament said:

Yeah it might be time to launch a robust series of air strikes.

The Pentagon is claiming that the likely target of the missiles was the merchant vessel and not the destroyer or the CSG.  I smell some obfuscation here— it’s clear that this admin is desperate not to go kinetic outside of places like Syria where we have been active anyway. It’s a lot more convenient to pretend they aren’t shooting at us, but at some point for deterrence to work— someone has to be home when the doorbell rings or else you look foolish.

Also of interest in this story— 4 PLAN vessels were operating in the area and basically pretended that they didn’t hear the call. The USN and the Japanese responded.  A data point on how China makes noise at being a responsible global player but doesn’t want to do it.  Even Russia—fucking Russia— was taking active part in anti-piracy actions when the Somalis were feisty. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, they have young children as hostages.  But it's all about better infrastructure and having their own country, right?

Why aren't they going to be charged with war crimes?

The unpleasant truth is that Hamas started a war that’s killed tens of thousands of Palestinians, brutally murdered thousands of Jews in the most horrific ways, is holding toddlers hostage—- and has never enjoyed greater support in the West Bank than right now. It’s all seen as worth it to get some stabby women and rock-throwing delinquents out of jail. We tell ourselves some pleasant lies about what the population wants. 

  • Hook 'Em 7
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Viper said:

some stories from the hostages are starting to come out

 

I believe this was the hostage with dual Russian citizenship that Putin asked to be released as a favor for his "support" of the Palestinians. 

I would like to think that this helps to disabuse people of the notion that not all Pals support Hamas, but a majority of them do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On bright side news, ceasefire appears to be extended a couple days. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-hopes-extension-israel-hamas-truce-enters-final-day-2023-11-27/

Hard to find the actual terms of the ceasefire agreement, but if I understand correctly, there is a provision for extension of the ceasefire for incremental release of hostages. Haven't seen a clean breakdown of IDF vs. civilian hostages held in Gaza. If hamas had anything other than shit for brains, they would try to negotiate an immediate release of all non-IDF hostages for a multiple in terms of both extension and exchange. But they have shit for brains, so that probably won't happen. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Immediate release is a favorable outcome for all parties relative to drawn out exchanges over weeks. And likewise an agreed extended ceasefire is a favorable outcome over a tenuous ceasefire that is ready to fall apart the first time a daily milestone is not met. These are easy concepts to grasp.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes you just have to put it out into the universe. Hope this goes somewhere. 
 

 

Translation of the tweet in Hebrew:

Negotiations for a new cease-fire agreement between Israel and Hamas, in which all the abductees in Gaza, including soldiers, will be released. On the other hand, Israel will massively release security prisoners in Israeli prisons. As part of the agreement, the parties discuss a ceasefire for an extended period of time. The new agreement is currently being discussed in Qatar, where the leaders are there discussing the details: the head of the Mossad >>

Edited by Anastasis
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/27/2023 at 11:29 AM, Viper said:

some stories from the hostages are starting to come out

 

I believe this was the hostage with dual Russian citizenship that Putin asked to be released as a favor for his "support" of the Palestinians. 

Some more coming out. The children are unsurprisingly traumatized

 

 

 

Edited by Viper
  • Rage+1 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Viper said:

Some more coming out. The children are unsurprisingly traumatized

 

 

 

But....but....I was told that civilians in Gaza did not support Hamas?  

Come on.  That was bullshit, it was always bullshit, and it will continue to be bullshit.

The Israeli people (by enough of a margin to let him form a government, repeatedly) supported Bibi.....and they bear responsibility for that, and the suffering it has wrought.  The Palestinians of Gaza must carry the same responsibility for their choices.  Two groups of people who, by at least a working plurality/majority, want to move forward with bloodthirsty, genocidal paths.  Lovely fucking planet we have here.

Oh, and the part they aren't telling you is that those kids were raped, repeatedly.  And violently.  By multiple men.  They don't want to disclose that because it's just too much, those kids have already had enough of their trauma broadcast to the world.  But it happened, 100%.  Just in case you wondered how Hamas and its supporters roll.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

he Israeli people (by enough of a margin to let him form a government, repeatedly) supported Bibi.....and they bear responsibility for that, and the suffering it has wrought.  The Palestinians of Gaza must carry the same responsibility for their choices.  Two groups of people who, by at least a working plurality/majority, want to move forward with bloodthirsty, genocidal paths.  Lovely fucking planet we have here.

The differences, of course, being that A) a majority of the Palestinians in Gaza were either toddlers or not even alive when the "choice" was made, and B) there is only one side that will bear any consequences here. You know it and are ok with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

A) a majority of the Palestinians in Gaza were either toddlers or not even alive when the "choice" was made,

You mean the choice, made RIGHT NOW, to re-capture hostages and turn them back over to Hamas?  Read the posts above -- the citizens of Gaza are actively supporting and assisting Hamas right now, in real-time.  They have chosen to support Hamas, instead of saying "nope, their shit ain't my shit."  You want to keep looking back 17 years ago.....when there's data in real-time available for you to consider.

I don't wash Israel's hands of the consequences of the choices they've made recently, and that many continue to make (the bellicose rhetoric out of numerous right wing jackholes in Israel, including its government, is pure shit)....I don't see why the choices made at the same time by Gazans to support Hamas today, in this very conflict, should be treated any differently.

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 2
  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You mean the choice, made RIGHT NOW, to re-capture hostages and turn them back over to Hamas?  Read the posts above -- the citizens of Gaza are actively supporting and assisting Hamas right now, in real-time.  They have chosen to support Hamas, instead of saying "nope, their shit ain't my shit."  You want to keep looking back 17 years ago.....when there's data in real-time available for you to consider.

I don't wash Israel's hands of the consequences of the choices they've made recently, and that many continue to make (the bellicose rhetoric out of numerous right wing jackholes in Israel, including its government, is pure shit)....I don't see why the choices made at the same time by Gazans to support Hamas today, in this very conflict, should be treated any differently.

They shouldn't be treated any differently, but they are and will be, is my point. You and I both know only one side is going to see any real consequences from this shitstorm.

e: Not that the Israeli lives and families affected by this aren't real consequences, but you know what I mean.

Edited by Brian Fantana
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

The differences, of course, being that A) a majority of the Palestinians in Gaza were either toddlers or not even alive when the "choice" was made,

And yet, by polling numbers, in 2021, "53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Mahmoud Abbas’ secular Fatah party."   https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

But keep fucking that chicken.

  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

And yet, by polling numbers, in 2021, "53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Mahmoud Abbas’ secular Fatah party."   https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

But keep fucking that chicken.

Yeah I wonder what the context is behind that. Must be nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah I wonder what the context is behind that. Must be nothing.

The article does a pretty good job of explaining it.  Perhaps you might read it instead of knee-jerking to "Israel bad, Palestinians good"

Quote

JERUSALEM (AP) — A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month’s Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.

The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research also found plummeting support for President Mahmoud Abbas, who was sidelined by the war but is seen internationally as a partner for reviving the long-defunct peace process.

The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.

Head pollster Khalil Shikaki, who has been surveying Palestinian public opinion for more than two decades, called it a “dramatic” shift, but said it also resembles previous swings toward Hamas during times of confrontation. Those all dissipated within three to six months as Hamas failed to deliver on promises of change.

The march to war began in April, when Palestinian protesters clashed with Israeli police on a nightly basis in east Jerusalem over restrictions on public gatherings during the holy month of Ramadan. The clashes eventually spread to the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, a flashpoint holy site, and were also fueled by Jewish settlers’ attempts to evict dozens of Palestinian families.

Israel captured east Jerusalem, along with the West Bank and Gaza, in the 1967 war and annexed it in a move not recognized internationally. The Palestinians want a state in all three territories, with east Jerusalem as its capital. Hamas, which is seen as a terrorist organization by Israel and Western countries, does not recognize Israel.

After warning Israel to halt the evictions and withdraw security forces from Al-Aqsa, Hamas launched a barrage of long-range rockets at Jerusalem on May 10, disrupting an annual parade by Jewish ultranationalists celebrating Israel’s conquest of east Jerusalem. That sparked an 11-day war in which more than 250 Palestinians were killed, as well as 13 people in Israel.

The poll found that 77% of Palestinians believe Hamas emerged as a winner, with nearly as many saying that it fought the war to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites, rather than as part of an internal struggle with Abbas’ Fatah party.

The pollsters held face-to-face surveys with 1,200 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza last week, with a 3 percentage point margin of error.

“Clearly, in the eyes of the public, Hamas came out as a winner,” Shikaki said, adding that it may struggle to maintain those gains as it has little control over events in Jerusalem.

An early test loomed Tuesday, when Jewish ultranationalists planned to march through east Jerusalem again. Hamas has called on Palestinians to “resist” but may be reluctant to risk another war just weeks after the last one was halted by an informal cease-fire.

The Biden administration and the international community are meanwhile looking to bolster Abbas. Hamas drove his forces out of Gaza in 2007, confining his Palestinian Authority to parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Abbas faces a major crisis of legitimacy among Palestinians after calling off the first elections in 15 years in April.

At the time, it appeared Fatah would suffer another humiliating defeat to Hamas, which won a landslide victory in 2006 parliamentary elections. But his decision, citing Israel’s refusal to grant permission for voting in east Jerusalem, also helped clear the way for Hamas to draw attention to Abbas’ weakness in the holy city.

Around two-thirds of Palestinians opposed his decision to call off the vote, the poll found. A similar number believe Abbas did so because he was worried about the results and not because Israel refused to explicitly allow voting in east Jerusalem, as he claimed.

Shikaki said Abbas could potentially regain support, but only if he shows initiative, either by reforming the PA, which is seen as increasingly corrupt and authoritarian, or by taking part in some kind of diplomatic push after a 12-year hiatus in the peace process.

“Unfortunately, so far, we are not seeing Abbas take the initiative,” Shikaki said. “We don’t see him talking to the public, he does not have a strategy, he does not have a plan. He is instead waiting... I don’t think that alone is going to work unless Hamas really fails miserably.”

Oh, and here's another more recent article on another poll reflecting considerable Hamas support among Palestinians:

https://pcpsr.org/en/node/938

Quote

The findings of the first quarter of 2023 indicate that the internal factional balance of power remains unchanged, with parity between Fatah and Hamas, if new parliamentary elections were to take place today, and a majority vote for Hamas’ candidate, Ismail Haniyyeh, over Mahmud Abbas in presidential elections. Satisfaction with president Abbas drops four percentage points and the demand for resignation increases by two points.

Public evaluation of internal conditions points to a greater deterioration in the standing of the PA and a significant loss of trust in it. Findings show a rise in the belief that the PA is now a burden on the Palestinian people and for the first time in our polls, a majority supports the dissolution of the PA and views its collapse as an interest for the Palestinian people. In fact, a majority thinks that the continued existence of the PA serves the interests of Israel and that its dissolution or collapse would strengthen Palestinian armed groups.

The declining status of the PA can also be seen in the vast public support, standing at about two-thirds in the West Bank, for the strike of the West Bank teachers in public schools and the belief of about 80% or more of the public that the current PA government will fail in conducting elections, reunifying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, or improving economic conditions. Loss of trust in the PA can be seen in the overwhelming opposition to the PA’s imposition of a one-Shekel tax on the telecommunication bill to support East Jerusalem. On top of that opposition, about 80% say the money will not really go to East Jerusalemites.

Findings of the current quarter point a significant decline in the support for the two-state solution accompanied by an increase in the percentage of those who think this solution is no longer practical or feasible due to settlement expansion. Furthermore, the public expresses widespread pessimism about the ability of international organizations and the international community, including the US, the EU, and the Arab states, to impose sanctions on the current Israeli government to pressure it to change its settlement policy or its violations of international law.

In light of all that, findings show a rise in the percentage of those who support a return to armed confrontation and intifada. In fact, 70% of West Bankers expect the eruption of a third armed intifada. Moreover, more than 70% declare support for the latest Huwara shooting attack against settlers; two thirds support the formation of armed groups, such as the Jenin Battalion or the Lions’ Den; and almost all express the view that the PA security services should not arrest or disarm members of these groups. More than 60% of the West Bankers believe that members of these armed groups will resist with arms any attempt by the PA security services to disarm or arrest them. Public support for armed resistance is further confirmed by overwhelming opposition to the Palestinian participation in the Aqaba meeting. Almost all Palestinians think Israel will not honor its commitments in that meeting. A large majority, standing at 70%, think Israeli counter measures, which are meant to punish those who commit armed attacks or their families, such as home demolition, expulsion, or the imposition of the death penalty, will only lead to an increase in the intensity of such attacks.  

 

Edited by DDD Dad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...