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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Predicting that the “From the River to the Sea” crowd will mention only what happened at 7:03 and the kvetch about how they shouldn’t have to condemn Hamas. 

 

Hamas was just using this pause to regroup. I wonder how many of the remaining hostages are actually alive at this point 

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Israel Plans to Kill Hamas Leaders Around the World After War
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-plans-to-kill-hamas-leaders-around-the-world-after-war-da88e6b9?mod=wknd_pos1

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TEL AVIV—Israel’s intelligence services are preparing to kill Hamas leaders around the world when the nation’s war in the Gaza Strip winds down, setting the stage for a yearslong campaign to hunt down militants responsible for the Oct. 7 massacres, Israeli officials said.

With orders from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s top spy agencies are working on plans to hunt down Hamas leaders living in Lebanon, Turkey and Qatar, the small Gulf nation that has allowed the group to run a political office in Doha for a decade, the officials said.

The assassination campaign would be an extension of Israel’s decadeslong clandestine operations that have become the subject of both Hollywood legend and worldwide condemnation. Israeli assassins have hunted Palestinian militants in Beirut while dressed as women, and killed a Hamas leader in Dubai while disguised as tourists. Israel has used a car bomb to assassinate a Hezbollah leader in Syria and a remote-controlled rifle to kill a nuclear scientist in Iran, according to former Israeli officials.

For years, countries such as Qatar, Lebanon, Iran, Russia and Turkey have provided Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, with a measure of protection. And Israel has at times refrained from targeting the Palestinian militants to avoid creating diplomatic crises.

The new plans would mark a second chance for Netanyahu, who ordered a botched 1997 attempt to poison Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Jordan. The well-documented attempt instead led to the release of Hamas’s spiritual leader, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

To the consternation of some Israeli officials who want the latest plans to remain a mystery, Netanyahu telegraphed his intentions in a nationwide address on Nov. 22. 

“I have instructed the Mossad to act against the heads of Hamas wherever they are,” he said, referring to Israel’s foreign-intelligence service.

im-892437?width=700&height=459

Members of Israel’s war cabinet, from left: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and Benny Gantz. PHOTO: POOL/REUTERS

In the same address, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Hamas leaders are living on “borrowed time.”

“They are marked for death,” he said. “The struggle is worldwide, both the terrorists in Gaza and those who fly in expensive planes.”

While Israel typically tries to keep such efforts secret, the nation’s leaders have shown few reservations about revealing their intentions to hunt down everyone responsible for the Oct. 7 attack, just like they did to those responsible for the Palestinian terrorist attack that killed 11 Israeli athletes and coaches at the Munich Olympics in 1972. 

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

Can Hamas survive as an organization following the war with Israel? Join the conversation below.

Israel is already working to kill or capture Hamas leaders inside Gaza, the officials said. The question now for Israeli leaders isn’t about whether to try to kill Hamas leaders elsewhere in the world, but where—and how, the officials said.

The evolving plans are an extension of Israel’s war in Gaza and a reflection of its intentions to ensure that Hamas can never again pose a serious threat to Israel—just as the U.S. led a global coalition against Islamic State militants who set up a self-proclaimed caliphate in parts of Iraq and Syria. As part of the effort, Israel is also looking at whether it could forcibly expel thousands of low-level Hamas fighters from Gaza as a way to shorten the war.

Targeted killings abroad can violate international law and run the risk of blowback from nations in which assassins operate without their permission. In practice, however, Israel and others have pursued targeted killings and weathered the repercussions.

Israel’s plans to target Hamas leaders began to take shape shortly after Oct. 7, when Hamas militants carried out a brazen cross-border attack that Israel said killed 1,200 people, most of them civilians. More than 200 others, including American and Europeans holding dual Israeli citizenship, were abducted and taken back to Gaza.

im-892433?width=700&height=467

Khaled Meshaal, seen at his mother’s funeral in Jordan seven years ago, is an Israeli target. PHOTO: JAMAL NASRALLAH/EUROPEAN PRESSPHOTO AGENCY

Some Israeli officials wanted to launch an immediate campaign to kill Meshaal and other Hamas leaders living abroad, the officials said. The officials were especially incensed by a video of Meshaal, and other Hamas leaders, including its top political chief, Ismail Haniyeh, celebrating and praying at one of their offices while watching live news coverage of the Oct. 7 attacks.

Israel isn’t known to have carried out any targeted-killing operations in Qatar, and doing so after Oct. 7 could have torpedoed continuing efforts to negotiate the release of those held hostage, the officials said. Those concerns helped temper efforts to immediately embark on the assassination campaign, but the planning continues, they said.

Qatar has become the central hub for the hostage talks, with the head of the Mossad, David Barnea, meeting CIA chief William Burns in Doha earlier this week for more discussions. Doha has helped to secure the release of dozens of Israeli hostages held by Gaza militants in return for the release of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons. More than 130 hostages remain in Gaza, according to Israel’s account.

Netanyahu’s vow to hunt down Hamas leaders around the world has sparked a debate among former intelligence officials.

im-892430?width=639&height=436

Former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy. PHOTO: TONY BOCK / TORONTO STAR VIA GETTY IMAGES

Efraim Halevy, a former Mossad director, called it ill-advised. Killing Hamas leaders won’t eliminate the threat, he said. It has the potential to instead inflame the group’s followers and accelerate creation of even worse threats.

“Pursuing Hamas on a worldwide scale and trying to systematically remove all its leaders from this world is a desire to exact revenge, not a desire to achieve a strategic aim,” said Halevy, who called the plan “far-fetched.”

Amos Yadlin, a retired Israeli general who once led the military’s intelligence agency, said the campaign “is what justice demands.”

“All the Hamas leaders, all those who participated in the attack, who planned the attack, who ordered the attack, should be brought to justice or eliminated,” Yadlin said. “It’s the right policy.”

Perhaps no other nation has Israel’s experience in carrying out worldwide assassination campaigns. Since World War II, Israel has conducted more than 2,700 such operations, according to the book “Rise and Kill First,” by Israeli journalist Ronen Bergman.

Even before Israel was founded in 1948, Jewish militants killed European diplomats who were involved in the British administration of Mandatory Palestine. In the 1960s, Israeli spies used letter bombs to target former Nazi Germany scientists helping Egypt develop rockets. 

The campaigns have sometimes backfired. 

im-892434?width=700&height=466

A demonstrator in Lebanon displays a photo of Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh, assassinated in Syria in 2008. PHOTO: MARWAN NAAMANI /GETTY IMAGES

In 1997, Netanyahu, then serving his first term as prime minister, ordered Israeli spies to kill Meshaal, a Hamas founder who was then living in Jordan. The Israeli team entered Jordan posing as Canadian tourists and attacked Meshaal outside the Hamas political office in Amman. One Israeli assassin sprayed a toxin into Meshaal’s ear but he was captured along with another member of the team before they could escape.

Meshaal fell into a coma, and Jordan threatened to terminate its peace treaty with Israel. Then-President Bill Clinton pressed Netanyahu to end the crisis by sending his Mossad chief to Amman with the antidote that saved Meshaal’s life. Israel then secured the freedom of its operatives in Jordan by agreeing to release Yassin, the Hamas spiritual leader, and 70 other Palestinian prisoners.

Meshaal later described the failed assassination attempt as a “turning point” that helped empower Hamas.

Israel continued its assassination campaign against Hamas for years.

In 2010, a team of Israeli operatives using forged European passports flew to Dubai, where they masqueraded as tourists while awaiting the arrival of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a founder of the Hamas military wing who led the group’s efforts to buy weapons. 

im-893918?width=700&height=477

Mourners including Khaled Meshaal, bottom left, marched with the coffin of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in 2010. PHOTO: BASSEM TELLAWI/ASSOCIATED PRESS

Surveillance video later captured members of the team, dressed as tennis players, following Mabhouh to his room, where the Israelis paralyzed and then suffocated the Hamas leader. While it initially appeared that Mabhouh had died of natural causes, Dubai officials eventually identified the hit team and accused Israel of the assassination. 

It took years to repair the damage to Israel’s relations with the United Arab Emirates.

It was the deadly Palestinian militant attack on Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics that cemented the nation’s embrace of covert assassinations as a tool of government policy. 

Palestinian gunmen with a group known as Black September took a group of Israeli athletes and coaches hostage in the Olympic Village, leading to a two-day standoff that ended with a failed rescue attempt by West German police. All 11 Israeli hostages were killed. 

In response, then-Prime Minister Golda Meir ordered Israeli spies to hunt down and kill all Palestinian militants involved in the attack. The covert campaign was dubbed Operation Wrath of God and became the subject of an Oscar-nominated 2005 Steven Spielberg movie.

im-892431?width=700&height=485

Ehud Barak, pictured in 2012, took part in a campaign to hunt down Palestinian militants abroad in the 1970s. PHOTO: ISSEI KATO/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES

Israeli assassins spent 20 years hunting those linked to the Munich attack. They killed Palestinians in France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus and Lebanon. They used a remote-controlled bomb hidden inside a phone in France and used guns with silencers to kill targets in the streets of Rome.

Among those to take part in the yearslong effort was Ehud Barak, then a young Israeli commando who went on to become prime minister. In 1973, Barak, dressed as a woman, was part of a team that sneaked into Beirut to kill three Palestinian militants linked to the Munich attack. They killed all three in a matter of minutes. 

But Operation Wrath of God also led to one of Israel’s most embarrassing covert failures in 1973, when a team of Israeli operatives killed a Moroccan waiter in Norway who they had mistakenly identified as a Palestinian militant involved in the Munich attack. Six of the 15 Israeli operatives were arrested and five were sentenced to short prison terms for their roles in the killing.

Write to Dion Nissenbaum at dion.nissenbaum@wsj.com

 

 

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1 hour ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Hamas was just using this pause to regroup. I wonder how many of the remaining hostages are actually alive at this point 

We knew the ceasefire would end eventually, and it doesn't change the fact that Israel was always going to continue to go after them. The only other thing I can say is that at least some of the hostages got out alive, and some aid got to innocent civilians. So it was worth it for as long as it lasted.

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The creation and release of this video by Hamas yesterday is pretty illustrative of where they are.  Specifically designed to create rage and anger in Israeli society combined with the decision to stop releasing hostages and start shooting rockets.  They are trying to re-escalate and prompt a massive Israeli response.  They must feel like they’ve regrouped sufficiently and that Israel will take the PR hit for going back on the offensive.

 

 

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6 hours ago, horn_of_the_morning said:

Israel Plans to Kill Hamas Leaders Around the World After War
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-plans-to-kill-hamas-leaders-around-the-world-after-war-da88e6b9?mod=wknd_pos1

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TEL AVIV—Israel’s intelligence services are preparing to kill Hamas leaders around the world when the nation’s war in the Gaza Strip winds down, setting the stage for a yearslong campaign to hunt down militants responsible for the Oct. 7 massacres, Israeli officials said.

With orders from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s top spy agencies are working on plans to hunt down Hamas leaders living in Lebanon, Turkey and Qatar, the small Gulf nation that has allowed the group to run a political office in Doha for a decade, the officials said.

The assassination campaign would be an extension of Israel’s decadeslong clandestine operations that have become the subject of both Hollywood legend and worldwide condemnation. Israeli assassins have hunted Palestinian militants in Beirut while dressed as women, and killed a Hamas leader in Dubai while disguised as tourists. Israel has used a car bomb to assassinate a Hezbollah leader in Syria and a remote-controlled rifle to kill a nuclear scientist in Iran, according to former Israeli officials.

For years, countries such as Qatar, Lebanon, Iran, Russia and Turkey have provided Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, with a measure of protection. And Israel has at times refrained from targeting the Palestinian militants to avoid creating diplomatic crises.

The new plans would mark a second chance for Netanyahu, who ordered a botched 1997 attempt to poison Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Jordan. The well-documented attempt instead led to the release of Hamas’s spiritual leader, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

To the consternation of some Israeli officials who want the latest plans to remain a mystery, Netanyahu telegraphed his intentions in a nationwide address on Nov. 22. 

“I have instructed the Mossad to act against the heads of Hamas wherever they are,” he said, referring to Israel’s foreign-intelligence service.

im-892437?width=700&height=459

Members of Israel’s war cabinet, from left: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and Benny Gantz. PHOTO: POOL/REUTERS

In the same address, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Hamas leaders are living on “borrowed time.”

“They are marked for death,” he said. “The struggle is worldwide, both the terrorists in Gaza and those who fly in expensive planes.”

While Israel typically tries to keep such efforts secret, the nation’s leaders have shown few reservations about revealing their intentions to hunt down everyone responsible for the Oct. 7 attack, just like they did to those responsible for the Palestinian terrorist attack that killed 11 Israeli athletes and coaches at the Munich Olympics in 1972. 

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

Can Hamas survive as an organization following the war with Israel? Join the conversation below.

Israel is already working to kill or capture Hamas leaders inside Gaza, the officials said. The question now for Israeli leaders isn’t about whether to try to kill Hamas leaders elsewhere in the world, but where—and how, the officials said.

The evolving plans are an extension of Israel’s war in Gaza and a reflection of its intentions to ensure that Hamas can never again pose a serious threat to Israel—just as the U.S. led a global coalition against Islamic State militants who set up a self-proclaimed caliphate in parts of Iraq and Syria. As part of the effort, Israel is also looking at whether it could forcibly expel thousands of low-level Hamas fighters from Gaza as a way to shorten the war.

Targeted killings abroad can violate international law and run the risk of blowback from nations in which assassins operate without their permission. In practice, however, Israel and others have pursued targeted killings and weathered the repercussions.

Israel’s plans to target Hamas leaders began to take shape shortly after Oct. 7, when Hamas militants carried out a brazen cross-border attack that Israel said killed 1,200 people, most of them civilians. More than 200 others, including American and Europeans holding dual Israeli citizenship, were abducted and taken back to Gaza.

im-892433?width=700&height=467

Khaled Meshaal, seen at his mother’s funeral in Jordan seven years ago, is an Israeli target. PHOTO: JAMAL NASRALLAH/EUROPEAN PRESSPHOTO AGENCY

Some Israeli officials wanted to launch an immediate campaign to kill Meshaal and other Hamas leaders living abroad, the officials said. The officials were especially incensed by a video of Meshaal, and other Hamas leaders, including its top political chief, Ismail Haniyeh, celebrating and praying at one of their offices while watching live news coverage of the Oct. 7 attacks.

Israel isn’t known to have carried out any targeted-killing operations in Qatar, and doing so after Oct. 7 could have torpedoed continuing efforts to negotiate the release of those held hostage, the officials said. Those concerns helped temper efforts to immediately embark on the assassination campaign, but the planning continues, they said.

Qatar has become the central hub for the hostage talks, with the head of the Mossad, David Barnea, meeting CIA chief William Burns in Doha earlier this week for more discussions. Doha has helped to secure the release of dozens of Israeli hostages held by Gaza militants in return for the release of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons. More than 130 hostages remain in Gaza, according to Israel’s account.

Netanyahu’s vow to hunt down Hamas leaders around the world has sparked a debate among former intelligence officials.

im-892430?width=639&height=436

Former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy. PHOTO: TONY BOCK / TORONTO STAR VIA GETTY IMAGES

Efraim Halevy, a former Mossad director, called it ill-advised. Killing Hamas leaders won’t eliminate the threat, he said. It has the potential to instead inflame the group’s followers and accelerate creation of even worse threats.

“Pursuing Hamas on a worldwide scale and trying to systematically remove all its leaders from this world is a desire to exact revenge, not a desire to achieve a strategic aim,” said Halevy, who called the plan “far-fetched.”

Amos Yadlin, a retired Israeli general who once led the military’s intelligence agency, said the campaign “is what justice demands.”

“All the Hamas leaders, all those who participated in the attack, who planned the attack, who ordered the attack, should be brought to justice or eliminated,” Yadlin said. “It’s the right policy.”

Perhaps no other nation has Israel’s experience in carrying out worldwide assassination campaigns. Since World War II, Israel has conducted more than 2,700 such operations, according to the book “Rise and Kill First,” by Israeli journalist Ronen Bergman.

Even before Israel was founded in 1948, Jewish militants killed European diplomats who were involved in the British administration of Mandatory Palestine. In the 1960s, Israeli spies used letter bombs to target former Nazi Germany scientists helping Egypt develop rockets. 

The campaigns have sometimes backfired. 

im-892434?width=700&height=466

A demonstrator in Lebanon displays a photo of Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh, assassinated in Syria in 2008. PHOTO: MARWAN NAAMANI /GETTY IMAGES

In 1997, Netanyahu, then serving his first term as prime minister, ordered Israeli spies to kill Meshaal, a Hamas founder who was then living in Jordan. The Israeli team entered Jordan posing as Canadian tourists and attacked Meshaal outside the Hamas political office in Amman. One Israeli assassin sprayed a toxin into Meshaal’s ear but he was captured along with another member of the team before they could escape.

Meshaal fell into a coma, and Jordan threatened to terminate its peace treaty with Israel. Then-President Bill Clinton pressed Netanyahu to end the crisis by sending his Mossad chief to Amman with the antidote that saved Meshaal’s life. Israel then secured the freedom of its operatives in Jordan by agreeing to release Yassin, the Hamas spiritual leader, and 70 other Palestinian prisoners.

Meshaal later described the failed assassination attempt as a “turning point” that helped empower Hamas.

Israel continued its assassination campaign against Hamas for years.

In 2010, a team of Israeli operatives using forged European passports flew to Dubai, where they masqueraded as tourists while awaiting the arrival of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a founder of the Hamas military wing who led the group’s efforts to buy weapons. 

im-893918?width=700&height=477

Mourners including Khaled Meshaal, bottom left, marched with the coffin of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in 2010. PHOTO: BASSEM TELLAWI/ASSOCIATED PRESS

Surveillance video later captured members of the team, dressed as tennis players, following Mabhouh to his room, where the Israelis paralyzed and then suffocated the Hamas leader. While it initially appeared that Mabhouh had died of natural causes, Dubai officials eventually identified the hit team and accused Israel of the assassination. 

It took years to repair the damage to Israel’s relations with the United Arab Emirates.

It was the deadly Palestinian militant attack on Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics that cemented the nation’s embrace of covert assassinations as a tool of government policy. 

Palestinian gunmen with a group known as Black September took a group of Israeli athletes and coaches hostage in the Olympic Village, leading to a two-day standoff that ended with a failed rescue attempt by West German police. All 11 Israeli hostages were killed. 

In response, then-Prime Minister Golda Meir ordered Israeli spies to hunt down and kill all Palestinian militants involved in the attack. The covert campaign was dubbed Operation Wrath of God and became the subject of an Oscar-nominated 2005 Steven Spielberg movie.

im-892431?width=700&height=485

Ehud Barak, pictured in 2012, took part in a campaign to hunt down Palestinian militants abroad in the 1970s. PHOTO: ISSEI KATO/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES

Israeli assassins spent 20 years hunting those linked to the Munich attack. They killed Palestinians in France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus and Lebanon. They used a remote-controlled bomb hidden inside a phone in France and used guns with silencers to kill targets in the streets of Rome.

Among those to take part in the yearslong effort was Ehud Barak, then a young Israeli commando who went on to become prime minister. In 1973, Barak, dressed as a woman, was part of a team that sneaked into Beirut to kill three Palestinian militants linked to the Munich attack. They killed all three in a matter of minutes. 

But Operation Wrath of God also led to one of Israel’s most embarrassing covert failures in 1973, when a team of Israeli operatives killed a Moroccan waiter in Norway who they had mistakenly identified as a Palestinian militant involved in the Munich attack. Six of the 15 Israeli operatives were arrested and five were sentenced to short prison terms for their roles in the killing.

Write to Dion Nissenbaum at dion.nissenbaum@wsj.com

 

 

I know this guy from India who can give them a referral…

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https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pentagon-says-us-warship-multiple-163330262.html

An American warship and multiple commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, the Pentagon said. Yemen's Houthi rebels later claimed attacks on two ships they described as being linked to Israel, but did not acknowledge targeting a U.S. Navy vessel.

The attack potentially marked a major escalation in a series of maritime attacks in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

“We’re aware of reports regarding attacks on the USS Carney and commercial vessels in the Red Sea and will provide information as it becomes available,” the Pentagon told The Associated Press.

The Carney is an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. It remained unclear what damage, if any, the vessels sustained in the attacks.

The British military earlier said there had been a suspected drone attack and explosions in the Red Sea, without elaborating.

The Pentagon did not identify where it believed the fire came from. However, Houthi military spokesman Brig. Gen. Yahya Saree claimed the attacks, saying the first vessel was hit by a missile and the second by a drone while in the Bab el-Mandeb Strait that links the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden. He described the ships as allegedly ignoring warnings from Houthi officials prior to the attack.

Saree did not mention any U.S. warship being involved in the attack.

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pentagon-says-us-warship-multiple-163330262.html

An American warship and multiple commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, the Pentagon said. Yemen's Houthi rebels later claimed attacks on two ships they described as being linked to Israel, but did not acknowledge targeting a U.S. Navy vessel.

The attack potentially marked a major escalation in a series of maritime attacks in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

“We’re aware of reports regarding attacks on the USS Carney and commercial vessels in the Red Sea and will provide information as it becomes available,” the Pentagon told The Associated Press.

The Carney is an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. It remained unclear what damage, if any, the vessels sustained in the attacks.

The British military earlier said there had been a suspected drone attack and explosions in the Red Sea, without elaborating.

The Pentagon did not identify where it believed the fire came from. However, Houthi military spokesman Brig. Gen. Yahya Saree claimed the attacks, saying the first vessel was hit by a missile and the second by a drone while in the Bab el-Mandeb Strait that links the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden. He described the ships as allegedly ignoring warnings from Houthi officials prior to the attack.

Saree did not mention any U.S. warship being involved in the attack.

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We have been extremely inactive and are paying the price at this point.  People need to know that shooting at an American warship means you die. This defensive bullshit is garbage. 

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2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We have been extremely inactive and are paying the price at this point.  People need to know that shooting at an American warship means you die. This defensive bullshit is garbage. 

On the ship thing, part of it is that we are putting the Carney in the path of anything headed to Israel, as well as around civilian shipping, so the Houthis may not be technically aiming at her.  I’ve seen conflicting reports that it was civilian ships they targeted as well.  Those are fixed missile sites so if they fire directly at Carney or the Brits, they won’t be around for long.

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24 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We have been extremely inactive and are paying the price at this point.  People need to know that shooting at an American warship means you die. This defensive bullshit is garbage. 

Ya think?

20 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

On the ship thing, part of it is that we are putting the Carney in the path of anything headed to Israel, as well as around civilian shipping, so the Houthis may not be technically aiming at her.  I’ve seen conflicting reports that it was civilian ships they targeted as well.  Those are fixed missile sites so if they fire directly at Carney or the Brits, they won’t be around for long.

I know you aren't advocating for inaction, but it's irrelevant if they were/were not aiming at our warships.  Time to take them out.

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6 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I know you aren't advocating for inaction, but it's irrelevant if they were/were not aiming at our warships.  Time to take them out.

I think we are headed that way, and should be.  I think they are trying to avoid directly targeting us, but there comes a point at which we need to drop the pretenses, and if they hit some ships today, that will be enough.  

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52 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We have been extremely inactive and are paying the price at this point.  People need to know that shooting at an American warship means you die. This defensive bullshit is garbage. 

 

26 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Ya think?

I know you aren't advocating for inaction, but it's irrelevant if they were/were not aiming at our warships.  Time to take them out.

I also think we need to get more involved in another Middle East war. It’ll end different this time.

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

 

I also think we need to get more involved in another Middle East war. It’ll end different this time.

We need to defend our Navy or pull it out.  Left as it is one of these random missiles is gonna hit a destroyer and kill some American sailors.  It sends a terrible message to just bug out like that, so it leaves us with blowing some of their stuff up.

All that said, this Israel/Hamas dustup is more likely to suck us in than what's going on in Ukraine atm.

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Official statement  I think we re headed towards  bunch of dead Houthi/Yemeni

—-
Today, there were four attacks against three separate commercial vessels operating in international waters in the southern Red Sea. These three vessels are connected to 14 separate nations. The Arleigh-Burke Class destroyer USS CARNEY responded to the distress calls from the ships and provided assistance.

At approximately 9:15 a.m. Sanaa time, the CARNEY detected an anti-ship ballistic missile attack fired from Houthi controlled areas of Yemen toward the M/V UNITY EXPLORER, impacting in the vicinity of the vessel. UNITY EXPLORER is a Bahamas flagged, U.K. owned and operated, bulk cargo ship crewed by sailors from two nations. The CARNEY was conducting a patrol in the Red Sea and detected the attack on the UNITY EXPLORER.

At approximately 12 p.m., and while in international waters, CARNEY engaged and shot down a UAV launched from Houthi controlled areas in Yemen. The drone was headed toward CARNEY although its specific target is not clear. We cannot assess at this time whether the Carney was a target of the UAVs. There was no damage to the U.S. vessel or injuries to personnel.

In a separate attack at approximately 12:35 p.m., UNITY EXPLORER reported they were struck by a missile fired from Houthi controlled areas in Yemen. CARNEY responded to the distress call. While assisting with the damage assessment, CARNEY detected another inbound UAV, destroying the drone with no damage or injuries on the CARNEY or UNITY EXPLORER. UNITY EXPLORER reports minor damage from the missile strike.

At approximately 3:30 p.m. the M/V NUMBER 9 was struck by a missile fired from Houthi controlled areas in Yemen while operating international shipping lanes in the Red Sea. The Panamanian flagged, Bermuda and U.K. owned and operated, bulk carrier reported damage and no casualties.

At approximately 4:30 p.m., the M/V SOPHIE II, sent a distress call stating they were struck by a missile. CARNEY again responded to the distress call and reported no significant damage. While en route to render support, CARNEY shot down a UAV headed in its direction. SOPHIE II is a Panamanian flagged bulk carrier, crewed by sailors from eight countries.

These attacks represent a direct threat to international commerce and maritime security. They have jeopardized the lives of international crews representing multiple countries around the world. We also have every reason to believe that these attacks, while launched by the Houthis in Yemen, are fully enabled by Iran. The United States will consider all appropriate responses in full coordination with its international allies and partners.

 

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On 12/3/2023 at 1:24 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

We have been extremely inactive and are paying the price at this point.  People need to know that shooting at an American warship means you die. This defensive bullshit is garbage. 

We are more active than what you read/ hear.

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So it sounds like Israel is finally going to setting up the infrastructure to begin flooding the tunnels under Gaza. 
 

From a military perspective, I completely understand and agree with the concept. By flooding the tunnels it removes both the ability of Hamas to move unseen and to hide and rest unfettered. This will force Hamas to either pull out or fight in the open, both are to Israel’s benefit.

What I am concerned with is the tunnel networks are as extensive as some believe, there is the possibility of loss of infrastructure on such a scale that mere bombing will place in comparison. Worse, we will also see, depending on drainage, the potential for both water contamination and waterborne diseases spread that will be on an extreme scale.

That being said, this is probably an approach that should have been taken earlier and will have a major impact as it rapidly accelerates the timeline by removing Hamas ability to hit and run and recoup by a large margin.

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4 hours ago, Viper said:

Hope these guys went and bought some lottery tickets

 

 

The bad guys don’t even light the rockets first? 

Looked like part of spacelab fell outta the sky.

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10 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

So it sounds like Israel is finally going to setting up the infrastructure to begin flooding the tunnels under Gaza. 
 

From a military perspective, I completely understand and agree with the concept. By flooding the tunnels it removes both the ability of Hamas to move unseen and to hide and rest unfettered. This will force Hamas to either pull out or fight in the open, both are to Israel’s benefit.

What I am concerned with is the tunnel networks are as extensive as some believe, there is the possibility of loss of infrastructure on such a scale that mere bombing will place in comparison. Worse, we will also see, depending on drainage, the potential for both water contamination and waterborne diseases spread that will be on an extreme scale.

That being said, this is probably an approach that should have been taken earlier and will have a major impact as it rapidly accelerates the timeline by removing Hamas ability to hit and run and recoup by a large margin.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-weighs-plan-to-flood-gaza-tunnels-with-seawater-a375dd0b

 

 

I suggested the possibility a month ago, but yeah.  I think they have the same concern.  It might be worse than bombing them.  I think at this point, they are at the point of saying that the hostages are dead.  So they are willing to flood them out. 

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Looks like they're starting to flood at least some of the tunnels

 

Wonder if this changes the tune of people saying that we don't have evidence of rape because no female victims are offering testimony. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-least-10-freed-hostages-were-sexually-abused-by-hamas-in-captivity-doctor-says/

Quote

At least 10 of the Israeli civilians released by Hamas, both men and women, were sexually assaulted or abused while in captivity, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

In a report detailing allegations of severe and widespread sexual abuse by Hamas terrorists during their October 7 onslaught and later against hostages, a doctor who treated some of the 110 hostages released from captivity told the AP that at least 10 men and women among those freed were sexually assaulted or abused.

He did not provide further details, and spoke on condition of anonymity to protect the hostages’ identities.

The doctor’s comments corroborated similar accounts shared at a meeting on Tuesday. The meeting, held between the Israeli war cabinet and a group comprising recently freed hostages and family members of those still held in Gaza, featured firsthand testimonies from some of the released captives. These individuals detailed their experiences of sexual abuse during their captivity, participants said.

 

Encouraging sign the Saudi Govt is allowing him to speak like this.

 

Edited by Viper
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15 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-weighs-plan-to-flood-gaza-tunnels-with-seawater-a375dd0b

 

 

I suggested the possibility a month ago, but yeah.  I think they have the same concern.  It might be worse than bombing them.  I think at this point, they are at the point of saying that the hostages are dead.  So they are willing to flood them out. 

This is my take.  Once Hamas couldn't find/produce any more hostages, the IDF concluded they are most likely dead and are moving to the next phase in the operation, which I think ultimately ends in northern Gaza being a defacto DMZ. Flooding the tunnels is part of that process. 

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47 minutes ago, Parliament said:

So how thoroughly can they flood them?  And can they do them all?  

I have no idea, but the level of destruction leads me to believe they are taking the approach we did in the second and third battles of Fallujah, where the IDF just destroys strongpoints from the air or artillery rather than take and clear, then does whatever below ground reconnaissance to secure tunnels they need. I think they've decided they are going to take a PR hit no matter what they do, so they are being thorough (or at least trying to be).  

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1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

This is my take.  Once Hamas couldn't find/produce any more hostages, the IDF concluded they are most likely dead and are moving to the next phase in the operation, which I think ultimately ends in northern Gaza being a defacto DMZ. Flooding the tunnels is part of that process. 

there's a news report that Netanyahu met with the hostages' families and told them there was no longer any chance to get them back, so this would jive with that.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Viper said:

Wonder if this changes the tune of people saying that we don't have evidence of rape because no female victims are offering testimony. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-least-10-freed-hostages-were-sexually-abused-by-hamas-in-captivity-doctor-says/

I don't know man, almost 1000 defensiveless civilians were massacred in a surprise attack and thousands more were injured, but theres no way these people would stoop to rape.

Unless.... do they play lacrosse by any chance?

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24 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fat dude is the supply officer. 

Reports have identified the really fat one as a journalist from Al Arabi al jadid. Also, the reports indicate that these are captives taken from a U.N. shelter in north Gaza, not khan yunis as some are saying on Twitter. There are also pictures of unarmed dead civilians laying next to their white flags. 

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