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Millennials want to retire by 61, but most have nothing saved


Who do you blame it on?  

121 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you blame it on?

    • The sunshine
      2
    • The moonlight
      2
    • The good times
      2
    • The boogie
      6
    • No one
      4
    • Rio
      9
    • The rain
      17
    • Boomers
      36
    • Boomer Sooners
      24
    • Themselves
      41


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29 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Quick Google tells me you have until that year's tax filing deadline to withdraw the over contribution. If it's a tax deferred contribution, it will be added back to your taxable income. I assume if it's Roth, nothing happens as it's already been taxed. If you don't withdraw by the deadline, you're SOL and will be taxed again once you withdraw it in the future.

Be careful. For instance, on a Roth there is a 10% penalty tax regardless of whether you timely withdraw the contribution. I'm not sure about the consequences with a tax-deferred account off the top of my head. 

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Be careful. For instance, on a Roth there is a 10% penalty tax regardless of whether you timely withdraw the contribution. I'm not sure about the consequences with a tax-deferred account off the top of my head. 
Based on what I read, for Roth, you only pay the penalty if you fail to withdraw the excess plus accrued interest before that year's tax filing deadline. The accrued interest will be added to taxable income on your return for the year.
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Excess contributions need to be returned to you  by April 15rh of the year following the deferrals.  If the refund is done after 4/15 its taxable to you for the year you deferred it and the year of return.  

Who is the retirement plan provider (TIAA-CREF, Fidelity, Prudentialm etc.)?   Your employer might not cap it (which means your payroll system sucks) but the provider should be capturing the data and handling the refund by 4/15.    

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I don't come close to maxing my 401k.  I put as much as I can.  Company match 5% and I double that.  For a couple years I tripled it.  I want to work my way back up to that amount.

I'm 35, single, no kids.  I rent rooms out in the house I own to make my budget work.  My employer does offer a pension right now, so I've got that going for me, but it's a long way to retirement.

 

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Kinda sorta related, 2 Millennials who successfully managed to have enough $$ to last to the end.

 

Millennial Couple Bikes Through ISIS Territory to Prove ‘Humans Are Kind’ and Gets Killed

"Evil is a make-believe concept we've invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans."

A young American couple was killed in an Islamic State-claimed terrorist attack last month while on a bike trip around the world. 

Jay Austin and Lauren Geoghegan, who were both in their late 20s, quit their jobs in 2017 to embark on a trip around the world. Austin, a vegan, and Geoghegan, a vegetarian, decided that they're were wasting their lives working. 

"I’ve grown tired of spending the best hours of my day in front of a glowing rectangle, of coloring the best years of my life in swaths of grey and beige,” Austin wrote on his blog before he quit. “I’ve missed too many sunsets while my back was turned. Too many thunderstorms went unwatched, too many gentle breezes unnoticed.”

The couple documented their year-long journey on social media until it came to a tragic and gruesome end in Tajikistan, a country with a known terrorist presence. 

Austin and Geoghegan were riding their bikes in the country on July 29 when they were rammed by a car, according to CBS News. Five men got out of the car and stabbed them to death along with two other cyclists, one from Switzerland and the other from the Netherlands. 

Two days later, ISIS released a video showing the same men sitting in front of the black ISIS flag. They looked at the camera and vowed to kill "disbelievers," according to The New York Times.   

Throughout the trip, the couple embraced the kindness of strangers and sought to demonstrate that people are inherently good.

“You read the papers and you’re led to believe that the world is a big, scary place," Austin wrote. “People, the narrative goes, are not to be trusted. People are bad. People are evil."

“I don’t buy it," he continued. "Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own... By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind....”

 

Video:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-dc-couple-american-cyclists-tajikistan-isis-lauren-geoghegan-jay-austin/

 

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I should have included a link to their blog.   

http://www.simplycycling.org/

RIP

 

The secret to his financial success?

A tiny house.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/tiny-house-big-benefitsfreedom-from-a-mortgage--and-stuff/2015/06/23/f8f706f0-0acc-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html?utm_term=.4057e2bf4ee2

Tiny house, big benefits: Freedom from a mortgage and worries — and stuff

mmorgan15060335571433494029_v3Ab_RGB.tif

Jay Austin says ridding himself of many of his belongings “felt really freeing.”

Edited by clapclapclap
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49 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Kinda sorta related, 2 Millennials who successfully managed to have enough $$ to last to the end.

 

Millennial Couple Bikes Through ISIS Territory to Prove ‘Humans Are Kind’ and Gets Killed

"Evil is a make-believe concept we've invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans."

A young American couple was killed in an Islamic State-claimed terrorist attack last month while on a bike trip around the world. 

Jay Austin and Lauren Geoghegan, who were both in their late 20s, quit their jobs in 2017 to embark on a trip around the world. Austin, a vegan, and Geoghegan, a vegetarian, decided that they're were wasting their lives working. 

"I’ve grown tired of spending the best hours of my day in front of a glowing rectangle, of coloring the best years of my life in swaths of grey and beige,” Austin wrote on his blog before he quit. “I’ve missed too many sunsets while my back was turned. Too many thunderstorms went unwatched, too many gentle breezes unnoticed.”

The couple documented their year-long journey on social media until it came to a tragic and gruesome end in Tajikistan, a country with a known terrorist presence. 

Austin and Geoghegan were riding their bikes in the country on July 29 when they were rammed by a car, according to CBS News. Five men got out of the car and stabbed them to death along with two other cyclists, one from Switzerland and the other from the Netherlands. 

Two days later, ISIS released a video showing the same men sitting in front of the black ISIS flag. They looked at the camera and vowed to kill "disbelievers," according to The New York Times.   

Throughout the trip, the couple embraced the kindness of strangers and sought to demonstrate that people are inherently good.

“You read the papers and you’re led to believe that the world is a big, scary place," Austin wrote. “People, the narrative goes, are not to be trusted. People are bad. People are evil."

“I don’t buy it," he continued. "Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own... By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind....”

 

Video:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-dc-couple-american-cyclists-tajikistan-isis-lauren-geoghegan-jay-austin/

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

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You want to know the real tragedy?  They could have gone to 60+ nations and had no problem riding all across them.  Hell the US itself should have presented untold options but dumbass didn't believe in "evil" so he gave no thought to the idea that maybe riding through the stans, just might not be the best idea ever.  Tajikistan, a 98% muslim majority nation with what appears to be a "president for life," a terrible economy propped up by remittances of foreign workers, with a history of civil war, and is a major heroin supplier and transit nation.  It also has inadequate health care, rampantent and widespread poverty, government corruption, little internet access which is state controlled and censored, oh and muslim terrorism; yes this is a fantastic place to plan to ride your bike across.

The only saving grace is that at least he and the girlfriend hadn't polluted the gene pool with their special offspring who also haven't be taught any common sense.  Nasty, brutish, and short...most of the world hasn't changed a bit.  The NYT wrote an article about them.  The comments section was full of the same stupid people who still haven't seemed to grasp the concept.

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2 hours ago, TxEx99 said:

You want to know the real tragedy?  They could have gone to 60+ nations and had no problem riding all across them.  Hell the US itself should have presented untold options but dumbass didn't believe in "evil" so he gave no thought to the idea that maybe riding through the stans, just might not be the best idea ever.  Tajikistan, a 98% muslim majority nation with what appears to be a "president for life," a terrible economy propped up by remittances of foreign workers, with a history of civil war, and is a major heroin supplier and transit nation.  It also has inadequate health care, rampantent and widespread poverty, government corruption, little internet access which is state controlled and censored, oh and muslim terrorism; yes this is a fantastic place to plan to ride your bike across.

The only saving grace is that at least he and the girlfriend hadn't polluted the gene pool with their special offspring who also haven't be taught any common sense.  Nasty, brutish, and short...most of the world hasn't changed a bit.  The NYT wrote an article about them.  The comments section was full of the same stupid people who still haven't seemed to grasp the concept.

On the bright side those vegans just reduced the global carbon footprint

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/were-the-american-cyclists-killed-in-tajikistan-naive-for-traveling-there/2018/08/14/f8212ca8-9b36-11e8-b60b-1c897f17e185_story.html?utm_term=.ff258c8a9386

...Experts on the region, however, reject the idea that the Americans were naive. “Central Asia generally is fairly safe,” said Paul Stronski, a senior fellow in the Russia and Eurasia program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “This is a region where the countries are very strong security and police states, so we have not seen the same sorts of large-scale terrorist attacks” as in other regions of the world. Tajikistan is one of five neighboring former Soviet republics — the others are Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan.

The two Americans killed, Lauren Geoghegan and Jay Austin, both 29, were from the District. Austin appeared on the cover of The Washington Post Magazine in June 2015 as part of a story on tiny houses; his reason for living in one was to have more money available for traveling. The couple had quit their jobs in 2017 to cycle the world and posted frequently on their blog “Simply Cycling.”

In Tajikistan, they met up with other cyclists eager to take on the Pamir Highway, which traverses a stunning mountain range known as “the roof of the world”; a 2017 article in the British newspaper the Telegraph called it “an adventurous traveler’s dream.” The U.S. travel advisory for Tajikistan on July 29, according to a State Department official, was at Level 1, the lowest, which means Americans traveling in the country should “exercise normal precautions.” (On Aug. 3, the advisory was raised to Level 2: “Exercise increased caution.”)

Though he said the country is generally safe for Westerners, Stronski described Tajikistan as “very much a dysfunctional state.” It has a repressive central government, Stronski said, many corrupt border officials and a poor citizenry reliant on money sent home by relatives working elsewhere, usually in Russia, or earned through illicit activities. Furthermore, there is a large terrorist presence just over the border in northern Afghanistan. (U.S. State Department Travel Advisory Level 4: “Do not travel.”)

He and other experts think that the attack was most likely carried out by grass-roots Islamic State sympathizers, and they say that by pointing a finger at the Islamic Renaissance Party, the Tajik government is trying to play down the Islamic State threat and is seizing an opportunity to crack down on opposition groups. None of the experts said they thought the couple should not have been in Tajikistan or that the attack means Americans should now avoid the country.

“I would have no problem telling close friends to go to Central Asia,” Stronski said.

Scott Stewart, a vice president for tactical analysis with Stratfor, a geopolitical intelligence firm, said that before the attack, his company had ranked Tajikistan as medium for a terrorism threat, “and, quite frankly, the attack hasn’t changed that.”

Stewart noted that a similar attack occurred last year in Manhattan, when a terrorist in a rented truck struck nearly two dozen bicyclists and pedestrians near a bike path. Eight people were killed. “These sort of attacks can happen across the globe,” he said. “There have always been dangers in the world, and you can’t just not go everywhere where you might be attacked, or you wouldn’t go anywhere.”

Still, “that doesn’t mean that you should ignore the threat of terrorism,” Stewart added. “You need to be careful, you need to do your research before you go.” In addition to consulting the State Department’s website, Stewart recommended that tourists cross-reference travel advisories from other nations, such as Britain, Australia and Canada, to see whether assessments mesh and gather more data. Another resource is the Overseas Security Advisory Council, a public-private partnership that monitors terrorism.

Seth Jones, director of the Transnational Threats Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said that travelers interested in researching recent terrorist attacks also might want to consult the Global Terrorism Database, a project of the University of Maryland’s National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism. “It’s a good place to look at in terms of recent history of attacks,” he said.

The threat in Tajikistan isn’t zero, he said, “but I would not put it at anywhere near the levels we see” in countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan.

“Central Asia, including Tajikistan is beautiful,” he said. “If tourists want to go there, or anywhere else in Central Asia, I think it’s worth visiting as long as you’re cautious about where you go . . . and keep a relatively low profile.”

Dermot MacWard, the owner of Britain-based Redspokes Adventure Tours, which has been running bicycle tours along the Pamir Highway since 2008, said the company decided not to suspend its Tajik rides after he consulted with his partners there and with the British Consulate in the country’s capital, Dushanbe.

“As there has been an increase in security checks along the road from Dushanbe to Khorog and the Pamir region is generally considered safe we were reassured that it was safe to continue with the tour,” he wrote in an email. “In our group of 18, two people decided to withdraw following 29 July, the other 16 remained keen to continue with the trip.”

MacWard, whose company also operates in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and other countries, encourages his clients to buy travel and cancellation insurance and to check weather and their governments’ travel alerts. His guidance for cyclists on the road in Central Asia includes dressing appropriately for cultural sensitivities, learning a few words in the local language, carrying photos of home and family members to share with hosts, maintaining respect for the environment, making eye contact and smiling, and not raising their voices. “If someone smiles, say hello in the local language and look for every opportunity to interact with the locals,” he said. “Show them pictures of your rain chains. These interactions are what make for a memorable trip and linger long after you’ve returned home.”

Edited by clapclapclap
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1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

Stewart noted that a similar attack occurred last year in Manhattan, when a terrorist in a rented truck struck nearly two dozen bicyclists and pedestrians near a bike path. Eight people were killed. “These sort of attacks can happen across the globe,” he said. “There have always been dangers in the world, and you can’t just not go everywhere where you might be attacked, or you wouldn’t go anywhere.”

"Just because Uncle Bob got eaten swimming in the Alligator pond doesn't mean the pool in your back yard is safe"

Uh....OK.....

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  • 5 months later...

Thought I'd bump this thread as I already posted in it and the topic was relevant. I've always been what I feel like is pretty aggressive in my retirement savings, but I never really had a set plan or goal other than dumping money into my 401k. Recently, however, I got more serious about our household budget and built a file from scratch that essentially shows me our household Income Statement, Balance Sheet, and Cash Flow by month projected out five years and I'll add a year as one rolls off. One portion of that is tracking net worth my month so I can see when I should reach certain milestones. My question is, how does everyone here define 'millionaire' as it seems like there is no consensus. Based on what I've read, I have basically come up with four 'levels' that I'll use as personal goals.

Level 1 - $1MM in Assets
Level 2 - $1MM in Net Worth including property (House, Cars, etc.)
Level 3 - $1MM in Net Worth excluding property
Level 4 - $1MM in liquid Net Worth excluding property and retirement accounts (401k, IRA's, etc.)

Personally, I feel like levels 1-3 are all attainable relatively soon assuming no unexpected disasters in my career or the market. Not sure I'll ever reach level 4 though as that's much more difficult to achieve.

What say Surly? Any personal goals you've set for yourself and if so, how do you track your progress?

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So how do you plan to do that? Real estate? Cash? Individual stocks?

 

I just always assumed the vast majority of my wealth would be accumulated in retirement accounts. I guess at some point you max those out though so maybe it's not as unattainable as it sounds.

 

Also, I realize $1MM isn't what it used to be, but I still think it can be used as an important milestone. My retirement goal is well beyond that amount.

 

 

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I capture account balances at the end of the month and then the following is calculated: net worth, net worth minus house and cars, a few ratios comparing assets and debt to my salary.   Set it up years ago, and now only takes 15 minutes per month to maintain.    

I look at trends and don’t worry about a single month.

For the most part I always thought that maxing the 401k contribution plus the company match would be enough for retirement.   While it would probably get me by, I don’t believe it will be what I want.   I’m exploring other options now.

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8 hours ago, Okie State said:

So how do you plan to do that? Real estate? Cash? Individual stocks?

 

I just always assumed the vast majority of my wealth would be accumulated in retirement accounts. I guess at some point you max those out though so maybe it's not as unattainable as it sounds.

 

Also, I realize $1MM isn't what it used to be, but I still think it can be used as an important milestone. My retirement goal is well beyond that amount.

 

 

As nice as qualified accounts are, there is something nice about not having the whole withdrawal taxed as income (Roth or non-qualified).  I aim to have about 50-50 or so in the event.  Although I have saved outside of qualified plans, downsizing the house is going to assist with that and is currently necessary to achieve 4.

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As nice as qualified accounts are, there is something nice about not having the whole withdrawal taxed as income (Roth or non-qualified).  I aim to have about 50-50 or so in the event.  Although I have saved outside of qualified plans, downsizing the house is going to assist with that and is currently necessary to achieve 4.
I am aiming at 50/50 deferred vs. Roth, but am not sure I'll ever get there since my first seven years or so were 100% deferred and everything the company gives me is deferred. I'll supplement with non-qualified at some point as well so that should help. I definitely want options to draw from when the time comes though.
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I’m 30, wife is as well. We max our Roth IRAs out every year, I contribute to my 401k (employer doesn’t match), contribute to my son’s 529, have a few investment accounts with institutional funds, etc. I’m doing well regarding saving. 

One problem millennials and people in general have is they live their lifestyle based off their income regardless of if they get a raise. Live like your poor or even frugal and you can save money. It ain’t hard people.

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38 minutes ago, Okie State said:
47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:
As nice as qualified accounts are, there is something nice about not having the whole withdrawal taxed as income (Roth or non-qualified).  I aim to have about 50-50 or so in the event.  Although I have saved outside of qualified plans, downsizing the house is going to assist with that and is currently necessary to achieve 4.

I am aiming at 50/50 deferred vs. Roth, but am not sure I'll ever get there since my first seven years or so were 100% deferred and everything the company gives me is deferred. I'll supplement with non-qualified at some point as well so that should help. I definitely want options to draw from when the time comes though.

Yeah, same.  There was no such thing as Roth when I started out.  I say this from helping manage my parents' affairs.  When needing a cash injection, I almost always went to the non-qualified well, and just took RMDs from the qualified stuff.

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15 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I’m 30, wife is as well. We max our Roth IRAs out every year, I contribute to my 401k (employer doesn’t match), contribute to my son’s 529, have a few investment accounts with institutional funds, etc. I’m doing well regarding saving. 

One problem millennials and people in general have is they live their lifestyle based off their income regardless of if they get a raise. Live like your poor or even frugal and you can save money. It ain’t hard people.

Good work.  It’s likely Roth isn’t mathematically smartest at 30 but I think it ensures you are living a little cheaper than you otherwise would.  

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I capture account balances at the end of the month and then the following is calculated: net worth, net worth minus house and cars, a few ratios comparing assets and debt to my salary.   Set it up years ago, and now only takes 15 minutes per month to maintain.    
I look at trends and don’t worry about a single month.
For the most part I always thought that maxing the 401k contribution plus the company match would be enough for retirement.   While it would probably get me by, I don’t believe it will be what I want.   I’m exploring other options now.
Just added debt-to-income to mine. Thanks.
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Just now, Okie State said:
2 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:
Good work.  It’s likely Roth isn’t mathematically smartest at 30 but I think it ensures you are living a little cheaper than you otherwise would.  

Why do you say that?

He’s peobably making a lot at thirty compared to 65 or whatever, so he’s choosing to pay a higher tax bracket.  Guesses as to future tax laws and income of course. 

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1 minute ago, Okie State said:
3 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:
Good work.  It’s likely Roth isn’t mathematically smartest at 30 but I think it ensures you are living a little cheaper than you otherwise would.  

Why do you say that?

Based on the assumption that your tax bracket will be lower in retirement than when you invest in a Roth.

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He’s peobably making a lot at thirty compared to 65 or whatever, so he’s choosing to pay a higher tax bracket.  Guesses as to future tax laws and income of course. 
I get the reasoning but at 30? That's still relatively early in a career and surely nowhere near max earnings. Are you saying a Roth is only valuable for someone in their 20's?

I go back and forth on it but always come back to diversifying as I have no idea where taxes will be in 30 years. I also feel like I should be taking full advantage of the recent reduction in marginal rates.
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22 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

He’s peobably making a lot at thirty compared to 65 or whatever, so he’s choosing to pay a higher tax bracket.  Guesses as to future tax laws and income of course. 

See, I plan on making a lot more at 65 than I do now. Something will have gone wrong if I am not. 

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49 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I’m 30, wife is as well. We max our Roth IRAs out every year, I contribute to my 401k (employer doesn’t match), contribute to my son’s 529, have a few investment accounts with institutional funds, etc. I’m doing well regarding saving. 

One problem millennials and people in general have is they live their lifestyle based off their income regardless of if they get a raise. Live like your poor* or even frugal and you can save money. It ain’t hard people.

Pics of wife?

*You're

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2 hours ago, Okie State said:
3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:
I capture account balances at the end of the month and then the following is calculated: net worth, net worth minus house and cars, a few ratios comparing assets and debt to my salary.   Set it up years ago, and now only takes 15 minutes per month to maintain.    
I look at trends and don’t worry about a single month.
For the most part I always thought that maxing the 401k contribution plus the company match would be enough for retirement.   While it would probably get me by, I don’t believe it will be what I want.   I’m exploring other options now.

Just added debt-to-income to mine. Thanks.

I've also played around with measurements of the 25x retirement rule: save 25x your annual expenses, you can then withdrawal 4% per year in retirement which covers said expenses.  And if you can earn 4% on your balance, you effectively never touch the principal.

Based on that 25x need, my current balances and estimates of non-retirement fund income stream, I can calc my current shortfall.  Add in how many years/month I have until retirement and I end up with the saving/earning per month to meet that goal.  Sounds more complicated than it is.  Once again, I only have to enter monthly balances, and the rest is calculated.

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36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've also played around with measurements of the 25x retirement rule: save 25x your annual expenses, you can then withdrawal 4% per year in retirement which covers said expenses.  And if you can earn 4% on your balance, you effectively never touch the principal.

Based on that 25x need, my current balances and estimates of non-retirement fund income stream, I can calc my current shortfall.  Add in how many years/month I have until retirement and I end up with the saving/earning per month to meet that goal.  Sounds more complicated than it is.  Once again, I only have to enter monthly balances, and the rest is calculated.

I personally like this approach because it factors in retirement spending instead of just picking a random big number to try to hit. It also gets people to think about living in a paid off house, driving paid off cars, etc. A $1500 mortgage adds $450,000 to the number you would need to save. Getting rid of that before retirement is much easier for most people than adding 450k onto a number they are trying to reach.

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So on the baseline expenses number, are you using today's expenses (adjusted for inflation or no?) or what you project your retirement expenses to be? I assume the latter because the former isn't really relevant. I plan to have no car or house payments, but also assume medical will increase dramatically. Just seems impossible to estimate something that far out.

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7 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I personally like this approach because it factors in retirement spending instead of just picking a random big number to try to hit. It also gets people to think about living in a paid off house, driving paid off cars, etc. A $1500 mortgage adds $450,000 to the number you would need to save. Getting rid of that before retirement is much easier for most people than adding 450k onto a number they are trying to reach.

Exactly.  It's an imperfect measurement but it gets you in the ballpark. It's good to be conservative with your expectations of market returns (aim low) and future expenses (aim high.)  If you end up with too much in savings, it's not the end of the world.  You can either have a better retirement, give more away, or reduce savings near the end of your working life.  

As I'm approaching 50, it can be a bit unsettling with how little control you have over some of your future.  It used to be that I could actively bump up my savings or retirement over a period of some months or a year because the balance was relatively low.  Now that the balance is much higher, I'm somewhat at the whim of the stock market.  A volatile market can change the balance much more than I put into the 401k in a couple of years.   Last Oct and Dec were punches to the stomach.  Other months can be the opposite.  At least overall its been a good great ride the past decade.  

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