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Norm Macdonald - Netflix

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By BNB
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13018

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I think it’s fairly self explanatory.

Shouldn't be hard to explain, then.

I can imagine it would be very frustrating to see some level of progress in an abusive and deranged world (which Hollywood is) and then see it almost immediately threaten to roll backwards. Of course, white conservative men crying on the Internet lack self-awareness...

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BNB 100

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His one comment of The victims don't know what they are going through, losing their career was stupid.  I'm a pretty UN-PC guy, but that was bad.

Norm has always been un-pc.  I think he will survive.  

Hell, when I have been watching all his youtubes, there are collections on there titled, Norm on Gays, Norm on Blacks, Norm on Women., etc...

Kathy Griffin tried to make news saying she doesn't know why she can't have a Netflix show, and Norm can... Uhhh..

 

 

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Chrispy

Chrispy 131

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24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Shouldn't be hard to explain, then.

I can imagine it would be very frustrating to see some level of progress in an abusive and deranged world (which Hollywood is) and then see it almost immediately threaten to roll backwards. Of course, white conservative men crying on the Internet lack self-awareness...

Always the drama queen. 

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aggie08

aggie08 20210

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33 minutes ago, BNB said:

His one comment of The victims don't know what they are going through, losing their career was stupid.  I'm a pretty UN-PC guy, but that was bad.

I'm sure he was primarily addressing Louis C.K.'s situation, in which case there's definitely a little exaggeration of the life-changing damage caused by watching a fat, creepy loser jerk it while not exiting a nearby door for some reason. Meanwhile, C.K. lost his career and gets lumped in with monsters like Weinstein for being said creeper at the exact wrong time. Jim Jefferies basically had that exact bit in his latest special, and it wasn't particularly controversial.

But it's incredibly stupid to start a sentence with "The victims..." without knowing that whatever you say next is going to be applied to mean all victims of sexual assault in the current climate. No sympathy for Norm at all.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13018

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10 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'm sure he was primarily addressing Louis C.K.'s situation, in which case there's definitely a little exaggeration of the life-changing damage caused by watching a fat, creepy loser jerk it while not exiting a nearby door for some reason.

He had power over their careers. That "some reason"?

Quote

Meanwhile, C.K. lost his career and gets lumped in with monsters like Weinstein for being said creeper at the exact wrong time.

When women are being sexually assaulted and harassed, the state of their careers are merely "some reason" considered unimportant.

But when men's careers are threatened... the conservative male tears flow like the fucking Mississippi.

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aggie08

aggie08 20210

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He had power over their careers. That "some reason"?

No, he didn't. Most of the allegations were from before he was "Louis C.K." he was just a decently-known comedian and writer bouncing around comedy stores. What power did he really have back then?

I'm not defending him. He's a sad excuse for a man and his "apology" was fucking pathetic. But the scarred-for-life sentiment that rightfully accompanies most victims is a little heavy-handed in his particular case. It shouldn't be controversial to suggest that C.K.'s (and other's) societal punishment might not have fit the crime because of the #metoo timing IF you choose your words carefully when doing so. Nuance and all that. Jim Jefferies found a way to express it well, with a little humor as a bonus; Norm tripped all over himself.

I agree with you on a lot of things, but chill man.

Edited by aggie08
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RPM

RPM 26073

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15 hours ago, Chrispy said:

The strangest part, for me, was that Kimmel explained to Norm that women working on the Tonight Show were in tears about his appearance. The fragility in Hollywood is stunningly pathetic. 

The Tonight Show is in New York.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9474

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So Norm is wrong on the face of his comments, because he's comparing things in non exchangeable currencies: Professional loss and emotional trauma.  It's a bad rhetorical argument, and for a guy who is reputed to be a genius level comic, it's a stupid assertion.

More broadly, Louis CK is experiencing real world justice by losing everything. IF you believe he deserves a second chance, then stand up right now, walk into your break room and crank one out in front of your coworkers.  Then let me know how the real world treats you.  You're career in your current industry is over.  Forever.  And if you're white collar, then your days in almost any office job (or really any job that does a more than cursory background check) is over. Because CK did this repeatedly, he's not being punished for a one time bad decision, it's literally a workplace safety issue.

Has any comedian been given more mainstream success opportunities that Norm McDonald has and not taken advantage of them?  What is this, the 4th major attempt to make  him go big?  He's self sabotaging and always will be.  The line stepper comment is right on.

 

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alincoln

alincoln 2344

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12 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I mean, the guys been fired from most of the non stand up gigs he’s ever had, so.....

Thats not a value judgement, it’s just a fact.

Of course, he was fired from his SNL gig for destroying OJ on every Weekend Update which pissed off OJ's good friend Don Ohlmeyer.  Norm basically threw away his best gig by refusing to stop publicly defending a woman abused by a celebrity. 

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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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14 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Why is it strange?

Because they work for NBC, in New York, at 30 Rock- 

1. A Network that did NOTHING for years knowing that their most recognizable on air personality was a fucking pervert who broke about every workplace HR rule in the book on top of sexual harassing coworkers, grouping them AND just about everything else a creep could do in the work place. By the way his name is Matt Lauer. I'm sure if you googled his name you would be able to read more.

2. That same network, in New York at 30 Rock made it IMPOSSIBLE for one of their news employees to continue to work on a story that turned out to be one of the biggest if not the biggest news stories in show business in the last half a century. It was so bad that said employee had to take his story to other outlets to get in published on top of paying out of pocket for interviews and set ups because his employer (NB fucking C) was covering for a serial rapist. Again if you haven't heard of him go ahead and Google Harvey Weinstein the reporters name is Ronan Farrow who oh by the way won a Pulitzer prize for said story.

3, To think that an employee would be upset because a comedian was coming on a show who GASP mispoke about victims that they cried but is fine coming to work every other day and doesn't get violently ill even thinking about going to work let alone walking into 30 Rock everyday where shit like that happened is beyond me. 

 

That's why we find it strange. 

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9474

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Or he was fired because he was doing OJ jokes 4 years after the trial and his ratings sucked. He wasn’t asked to defend OJ, he was asked to come up with some fresh material that didn’t cause people to go take a piss during weekend update. 

Ive spent my entire adult life being told that Norm McDonald is one of the greatest comedic minds of my generation.  And yet, he’s never found more than modest success. 

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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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14 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Or he was fired because he was doing OJ jokes 4 years after the trial and his ratings sucked. He wasn’t asked to defend OJ, he was asked to come up with some fresh material that didn’t cause people to go take a piss during weekend update. 

Ive spent my entire adult life being told that Norm McDonald is one of the greatest comedic minds of my generation.  And yet, he’s never found more than modest success. 

 

I don't think being the most famous comic = funniest

He is a great stand up but definitely walks to the beat of a different drum. He isn't for everyone just like every other comic.  

Modest success? 

I think you are selling him a bit short. Sure he isn't Seinfeld but he is one of the top stand ups of his generation. Top 5 , Top 10, Top 25, etc. 

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9474

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30 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

I don't think being the most famous comic = funniest

He is a great stand up but definitely walks to the beat of a different drum. He isn't for everyone just like every other comic.  

Modest success? 

I think you are selling him a bit short. Sure he isn't Seinfeld but he is one of the top stand ups of his generation. Top 5 , Top 10, Top 25, etc. 

And that’s awesome. I think he is ill served by the greater comedy community trying to mainstream him.  Just let him be one of the great comedian’s comedian. 

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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

And that’s awesome. I think he is ill served by the greater comedy community trying to mainstream him.  Just let him be one of the great comedian’s comedian. 

 

 

Agree 100% on that. I think a lot of that can be blamed on his agent, business manger, etc. trying to get their horse a couple of more payouts before he heads to the glue factory. 

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BNB

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Now he's taking backlash from his Stern apology on

The comedian drew the ire of social media after he told Howard Stern, ''You’d have to have Down syndrome'' not to feel sorry for victims of sexual abuse."

I hate the PC world we live in.

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Lhorn

Lhorn 4862

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I’m of the mind that comedy should remained highly uncensored. There are things I’ve heard comedy and otherwise which I find offensive. I would never suggest those things be censored if there is a legitimate market for them.  If you want sanetized comedy which there is no potential for offense then maybe comedy isn’t for you. And that’s fine.  But please don’t pretend to be a lover of comedy (as many of the offended bloggers pretend to be) yet advocate censorship of comedy. “I love Venus de milo but can she put on a blouse?”

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freyguy

freyguy 4237

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4 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Or he was fired because he was doing OJ jokes 4 years after the trial and his ratings sucked. He wasn’t asked to defend OJ, he was asked to come up with some fresh material that didn’t cause people to go take a piss during weekend update. 

Ive spent my entire adult life being told that Norm McDonald is one of the greatest comedic minds of my generation.  And yet, he’s never found more than modest success. 

Since none of what you're typing was the case, the rest of your point is irrelevant.  It's been well documented in many books and interviews that Don Ohlmeyer did not like him for constantly calling out his murdering buddy.

Norm is not a perfect guy, no comedian can be and actually have consistently good material.  I'll take other people's side when he is actually accused of rape or sexual assault.  But if he just said some shit that triggered a few folks on social media, who the fuck cares?

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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1 hour ago, BNB said:

Now he's taking backlash from his Stern apology on

The comedian drew the ire of social media after he told Howard Stern, ''You’d have to have Down syndrome'' not to feel sorry for victims of sexual abuse."

I hate the PC world we live in.

Seriously. Why can't we go back to the good ol days where we could praise sexual predators and racists and mock retards?

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aggie08

aggie08 20210

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41 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

I’m of the mind that comedy should remained highly uncensored. There are things I’ve heard comedy and otherwise which I find offensive. I would never suggest those things be censored if there is a legitimate market for them.  If you want sanetized comedy which there is no potential for offense then maybe comedy isn’t for you. And that’s fine.  But please don’t pretend to be a lover of comedy (as many of the offended bloggers pretend to be) yet advocate censorship of comedy. “I love Venus de milo but can she put on a blouse?”

To an extent, I agree. Pretty much anything said on stage (short of repeatedly calling a black male the N word) should be understood to be part of a performance that's often more about pushing the line and making people uncomfortable than it is actual beliefs.

But, on the other hand, you shouldn't be able to say whatever you want, wherever you want--especially as poorly as Norm did--and get to say, "It's okay, I'm a comedian" when things go sideways. 

It's tricky: do tweets and interviews fall under the umbrella of comedic performances? I lean towards no. At a club, you know what you're signing up for; if it offends you, too damn bad. Comedians don't--and shouldn't--get that leeway outside of their element.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9474

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2 hours ago, freyguy said:

Since none of what you're typing was the case, the rest of your point is irrelevant.  It's been well documented in many books and interviews that Don Ohlmeyer did not like him for constantly calling out his murdering buddy.

Norm is not a perfect guy, no comedian can be and actually have consistently good material.  I'll take other people's side when he is actually accused of rape or sexual assault.  But if he just said some shit that triggered a few folks on social media, who the fuck cares?

It’s also well documented that the ratings during weekend up date were trash.  Norm MacDonald has made a big deal of making it an OJ conspiracy, but he was gonna get let go at the end of the season anyway.  Ohlmeyer is just an asshole who couldn’t wait.  

 

Ive made my point above about why Macdonald’s comments are stupid and self sabotaging. 

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Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2667

Posted
Posted

Norm was on some day today show or something and basically said exactly what mentioned above...he started to say the "r word" and realized mid thought we don't say that anymore and changed on the fly to say Down Syndrome. I mean that is patently obvious listening to it. Absurd in many ways. Makes me chuckle a bit that a seemingly quick witted comedian made that adjustment on the fly and had to retract it. 

He said some dumb stuff. He should probably apologize for it and he has. I don't think it was overtly evil. And that ESPYs monologue.....fucking brutal and beautiful. 

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14775

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Apologies are no longer apologies. They are admissions of guilt, and a signal that it's now ok to drag you through glass for as long as the news cycle pays attention.

It's bad enough Fallon didn't stick up for him. If Netflix pulls his show that will be some grade A horseshit.

 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 17983

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Posted (edited)

I’ve given some thought to this and really think Norm is getting a raw deal.  He’s getting hammered for raising legitimate points about crime and punishment.  It is useful as a society to freely discuss the merits of whatever presumptions we apply to allegations of wrongdoing, and how and to what degree we punish various offenses.  Norm is being shouted down just for raising those issues in a certain highly-charged context.

And perhaps more importantly, people are muddling his statements about three totally different scenarios into one, grand defense of Louis CK.  Go back and read what Norm said.  He wasn’t saying CK didn’t deserve what he got.  (At least that’s not how I read it).  He expressed some sympathy for a friend while still allowing that said friend was to blame for his fate.  That seems like a fair perspective.  Are we really at the point where those close to a wrongdoer are no longer allowed to feel a complicated mix of conflicting emotions about their loved ones, but must instead jump immediately to single-minded condemnation and disgust?

I worry that this will ruin Norm’s comedy.  He pushes the envelope to get laughs, but got burned and now seems terrified of being his usual controversial but brilliant self. A world in which Norm Macdonald holds back is a world with fewer laughs.  

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