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Featured Replies

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And hey…they have messican stuff.

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¡Oh snap they even have pulparindo!

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These are all private. Just…people blowing shit up, all over. And I’m going to die. We started drinking beer from Bavaria…and worked our way north. I just had my beer from the Baltic coast. I wasn’t allowed to leave till we covered the north, beer-wise.

Also…I gotta tell ya, it’s weird watching Germany light up the night sky in all directions with artillery. It legit feels like a fucking air raid.

Fuck I’m tired, and my head already hurts.

Oh, and now we’re watching German music performances…hello there.

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I’m informed that she’s actually Austrian. The accordion is…a bit of a giveaway.

Nice squeezebox….

Made breakfast tacos for the Germans today as it snowed outside.

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They genuinely enjoyed.

Then, they took extra tortillas and spread Nutella on them. Because Germans. They asked if it was ok, we explained that we put anything and everything on tortillas, so go for it.

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Made breakfast tacos for the Germans today as it snowed outside.

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They genuinely enjoyed.

Then, they took extra tortillas and spread Nutella on them. Because Germans. They asked if it was ok, we explained that we put anything and everything on tortillas, so go for it.

I can attest to the obsession with Nutella. For years the boys, it seemed, only ate Nutella for breakfast.

“NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!” That was the response we got from the legendary Ilse Schreiber as we reached the window at her iconic wurst stand in the Kleinmarkthalle in Frankfurt. Our daughter tried to tell her our order, a selection of the different wursts available (see the wooden sign). Ilse cut her off with a series of “NEINs!” She explained that this is what she had left that was hot, so this is what we’d get: 2 pieces of krakauer, and 2 pieces of fleischwurst. So that’s what we got. And they were delicious. Ilse stands as testament to the proposition that the greatest monuments are not made of stone, they’re the unique people who symbolize and personify a space. And if Ilse reminds you of Tootsie from Snow’s BBQ…yep, the similarities are obvious. They each sell their specialized deliciousness, and are the face of their craft and their community. Very glad we stopped in. You should do so if you ever end up in Frankfurt. Tell Ilse we said “hello”…if she doesn’t cut you off…gotta keep that line movin’.

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Solid little lunch right there.

Spent yesterday heading up the Rhine:

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We were right across from Bonn, and you could see the Koln Cathedral spires in the distance. Still one of the most impressive structures we’ve ever seen.

Some grub:

A German pasta dish, made with big potato dumplings, beef, roasted tomato paste, cabbage, and onions.

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Snack plates with all the meats:

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A few Xmas markets are still open:

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Did we hit the all-you-can-eat flammkuchen place last night near Koblenz? You bet your ass we did. For 8 of us…13 flammkuchen. So, 13 is apparently our limit. Interesting, because 15 is my limit on schnitzengruben.

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All the varieties. The classic with speck and cheese, sweet ones, a doner one (was really good), and yes…an American cheeseburger one (it actually kinda worked).

Some beer, and a great last night with family/friends before we head off to Mainz and Munich.

It ain’t all glamorous. Trudging uphill in the snow and slush to the boy’s flat. In the dark. At 5:00.

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And, from now on, you are all to refer to me as the…

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On 1/5/2025 at 7:33 AM, Brisketexan said:

because 15 is my limit on schnitzengruben.

I've been biding my time and waiting for the opportunity to drop that in.  No need.  Well done.

Got to Munich today, pretty tired, didn’t do a whole lot. Wandered a market, seeing all the delicious meats that I cant bring back gives me a sad.
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Laughed at the poor boyfriends of Instagram who have to take 1000 pics of their girl in silly poses.

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And while I may be the LORD OF DONER, I don’t outrank the king of falafel AND shawarma (I presume that is a united kingdom).

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Dinner:

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Ok, my man--you didn't tell me you were going to Muenchen.  So while you're there, you need to head over to Nuernberger Bratwurst Gloeckl am Dom.  It's right behind the Frauenkirche.  They have several family plates of all the sausages (including the little Nuremberger bratwurstl, which are fucking delicious).  And they pour Augustiner, which is to your very great benefit.

And then post pictures to show that you haven't forgotten about us.

I’ve had those little Nuremberger sausages every day at breakfast for the past three days. They rock.

Welcome to sunny Bavaria.

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Lunch was solid. Franconian sausages and a lentil dish with three kinds of pork. Oh, and there was a side of buttered spaetzle to stir into the stew. It was great on a cold day.

The fact that I cannot load up on 20 kilos of sausage to bring back because customs laws and such is giving me a sad.

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The fact that I cannot load up on 20 kilos of sausage to bring back because customs laws and such is giving me a sad.
My German/Yiddish is a bit rusty.  But kiester them thangs.   At least wrap one in foil a la Derek Smalls in Spinal Tap.

Had to hit the Hofbrau, of course. Beer, pork knuckle, schnitzel. And a cranky old drunk German at our table. I loved him. But not as much as the French brunette I caught on my video pan of the place.

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Also…you need to jam to die größten rock songs, right?

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And if you go to the coin shop, and they have little red marks over part of the coins…those are fucking swastikas. And fuck Nazis and all of their shit.

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Greetings from sunny but chilly Southern Bavaria.

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1) King Ludwig had shitty Liberace-like taste.

2) I ain’t buyin’ no damn cuckoo clock.

More Bavaria:

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Yeah, we went to Neuschwanstein. And I would definitely recommend going this time of year, because holy shit, in the summer it most be a MADHOUSE.
And the climb up is not a cakewalk. About a half hour steady uphill, then you climb the whole damned castle.
So, let’s talk about King Ludwig. Dude was clearly queerer than a football bat (NTTAWWT….in fact, his life would have been much happier if he was just able to have sexy time with Wagner all the time).
Ludwig was, as the kids say, quite “EXTRA.” Definitely not “basic.” Imagine how a gay Bavarian king would design and decorate everything, and you’ve got him figured out.
We got lucky, had a mostly sunny day, really highlighted the local beauty. And while we’re glad to have seen Bavaria and it is indeed pretty, we didn’t feel any deep connection or anything like that (we’ve got literally zero German blood). It’s deep rural, conservative Germany. Culturally…no thanks. Give us libertine Berlin.

Now for some fun stuff….the people. These two gals made me SO happy. Why? Because they hogged the primary overlook of the castle to take 10,000 photos for their Instagram pages. All the posing, multiple poses. Shot after shot. Nevermind that families were lined up to take their own photo. These top-of-the-line INFLUENCERS had to take over the place.
We left, and they were still there taking photos. Why does that make me happy? Because your castle tour ticket is for a. EXACT time (this is Germany…everything but the trains is exactly on time). So, they for so caught up taking all their pictures that when they showed up at the gate, they were denied entry - they were too late. I don’t think they ever got in, as you buy your tickets at the BASE of the castle.

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And…as always. F’n Russians:

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And check out the fucking Hanson brothers over there. Two Canuck jerseys, a Bruins jacket, and a Black Sabbath T-shirt. I wanna party with those guys.

From the wardrobe, I thought these gals were Russian too. Nope. They were just very attractive Americans. Quite nice, too, we ended up chatting with them later.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

More Bavaria:

Yeah, we went to Neuschwanstein. And I would definitely recommend going this time of year, because holy shit, in the summer it most be a MADHOUSE.
And the climb up is not a cakewalk. About a half hour steady uphill, then you climb the whole damned castle.
So, let’s talk about King Ludwig. Dude was clearly queerer than a football bat (NTTAWWT….in fact, his life would have been much happier if he was just able to have sexy time with Wagner all the time).
Ludwig was, as the kids say, quite “EXTRA.” Definitely not “basic.” Imagine how a gay Bavarian king would design and decorate everything, and you’ve got him figured out.
We got lucky, had a mostly sunny day, really highlighted the local beauty. And while we’re glad to have seen Bavaria and it is indeed pretty, we didn’t feel any deep connection or anything like that (we’ve got literally zero German blood). It’s deep rural, conservative Germany. Culturally…no thanks. Give us libertine Berlin.

People get caught up in the whole "he was gay and built castles" thing with Ludwig II.  They completely ignore the fact that he was King of Bavaria during the decade of German unification.  Ludwig himself was not a proponent of German unification, but Bavaria wasn't itself strong enough to forestall it after it was defeated in the Austro-Prussian War.  And the role that Ludwig's weakness played in Prussia's ascent to dominance over Bavaria and the other southern German countries is kinda unexplored.

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Yeah, we went to Neuschwanstein. And I would definitely recommend going this time of year, because holy shit, in the summer it most be a MADHOUSE.
And the climb up is not a cakewalk. About a half hour steady uphill, then you climb the whole damned castle.

This is much easier

Feel Like a Princess: The Neuschwanstein Castle - Helene in Between

This is much easier
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It would have been, but were the more intrepid type.
Shoulda taken the damned carriage.
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


It would have been, but were the more intrepid type.
Shoulda taken the damned carriage.

I walked up there in June with my girlfriend. She's a walking/hiking machine. I had to stop and rest on those benches 3 times. 

For the return hike I said Fuck No and jumped in a horse carriage.

I walked up there in June with my girlfriend. She's a walking/hiking machine. I had to stop and rest on those benches 3 times. 
For the return hike I said Fuck No and jumped in a horse carriage.

I only had to rest twice. My wife does spin class 6 times a week. Her cardio routine had her doing just fine. Walk down was fine.

I only had to rest twice. My wife does spin class 6 times a week. Her cardio routine had her doing just fine. Walk down was fine.

So…like the Japanese…we clearly fucked these people up when we bombed the crap outta them.

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Although that said…a pissed off antlered winged fox WOULD really tie my office together.
Stupid import restrictions.
Same dumb laws that are preventing me from filling a suitcase with this stuff:

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That second pic is just dead-sexy.
30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


So…like the Japanese…we clearly fucked these people up when we bombed the crap outta them.

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Although that said…a pissed off antlered winged fox WOULD really tie my office together.
Stupid import restrictions.
Same dumb laws that are preventing me from filling a suitcase with this stuff:

 

Right next to your jackelope

 

  • 3 weeks later...

Just booked a ~10 day trip with a group of friends in mid-May — I’m so amped:

Munich - 2 nights (a few of us have already been)

Werfen - 4 nights (at the reco of a Surly poster in this thread); Using it as a base to see Berchtesgaden, Salzburg, Wolfgansee, Hallstatt, Ice Caves, etc

Prague - 4 nights; Flying direct from Munich when we return the rental car… We’ve heard nothing but great things about Prague!!

 

On 1/8/2025 at 9:50 PM, Brisketexan said:

Also…you need to jam to die größten rock songs, right?

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  • 7 months later...

So we are planning our Germany trip starting the end of May 2026. I've been to Germany many times and have worked over there as well, but my wife has never been. We will also likely hit Prague and somewhere in Austria. Munich and some small towns are definitely in the plan, but I'm trying to decide what to do about Berlin. It's a bit out of the way for where we will be and I'm not sure how important it is to hit it. I've been there 10+ times but have never done much sightseeing.  My wife isn't a huge history buff. Thoughts on leaving it off?

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

So we are planning our Germany trip starting the end of May 2026. I've been to Germany many times and have worked over there as well, but my wife has never been. We will also likely hit Prague and somewhere in Austria. Munich and some small towns are definitely in the plan, but I'm trying to decide what to do about Berlin. It's a bit out of the way for where we will be and I'm not sure how important it is to hit it. I've been there 10+ times but have never done much sightseeing.  My wife isn't a huge history buff. Thoughts on leaving it off?

1) Berlin is one of our favorite cities in the world.

2) BUT, it's out of the way for your itinerary.  With that fact in mind, I'd skip it (we didn't go to Berlin last time we were in Germany -- did a more southern-focused trip).

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1) Berlin is one of our favorite cities in the world.

2) BUT, it's out of the way for your itinerary.  With that fact in mind, I'd skip it (we didn't go to Berlin last time we were in Germany -- did a more southern-focused trip).

That’s the struggle. I love Berlin. It’s a great city to work and hang out. But I agree with you that it’s probably it not critical for this vacation itinerary . 

On 1/4/2025 at 7:11 AM, Underdog said:

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The wurst nazi I’ve seen

  • 2 months later...

Daughter is in school in Bonn these days, she really likes their Christmas market.  Family friends from Koblenz came up today so they could all have a day at the market together.  Man, central Europe really nails Christmas markets.

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I’d be filling up a suitcase with Lebkuchen. 

44 minutes ago, Rudiger said:

I’d be filling up a suitcase with Lebkuchen. 

99% confident that a box or two will be coming home for christmas with the girl.  Along with paprika Pringles, to which my wife has an addiction.

  • 1 month later...

Grüß dich, Arschlöcher.

Working on my younger son's HS graduation trip in June, and he wants to do Bavaria and the Swiss alps (posted those questions in the Switzerland thread). I haven't been over there in 25 years, and this will be the family's first trip to Europe. I'm trying not to exhaust everyone with bouncing all over the place, but rather hope to approach this trip as inspiring future travel rather than a Griswoldian mission to see all the things. I've been to Regensburg before and it's about our speed (smaller, laid back), so I'm thinking about basically splitting the time between there and Munich as bases. Boys will be 18 and 21, so there will be biergarten visits and giving them space to do things on their own, which also seems to flow better with a slower paced visit.

Gemini and I have come up with the concept of a plan as follows:

Day 1: Arrive Regensburg, looking at staying at a vacation rental in the Altstadt so everything is walkable (not planning on renting a car this trip). Decompress and acclimate.
Day 2: Walk around the Altstadt, let them do some shopping, visit the bridge etc., dinner at somewhere like Kneitinger.
Day 3: We're not Catholic, but this happens to be the Corpus Christi holiday, so it seems like a fortunate opportunity to see what should be impressive services in the cathedral and hopefully a performance of the famed boys' choir, followed by the procession. As long as we're cosplaying Catholic, spend the rest of the day drinking beer at Spitalgarten or something and hanging out with locals on the Jahninsel so they can check out frauleins.
Day 4: Day trip to Kloster Weltenburg (oldest brewing monastery in the world) via Danube riverboat. Indulging beer nerd dad.
Day 5: Flex day, because I accidentally left this out while planning. Furk. Either stay in Regensburg or head to Munich, do a day trip of some sort, or use this for whatever you assholes castigate me for leaving off the plan.
Day 6: Munich, staying near Viktualienmarkt (looking at a couple rooms at Hotel Platzl). If we're just arriving, wander around, get bearings, see Altstadt stuff, eat Doner Kebap und Brezeln.
Day 7: Start at the Deutsches Museum in the morning, back to the Altstadt when we've had enough.
Day 8: Happens to be my wife's birthday, so we'll try to do something nice like a picnic in the Englischer Garten, let the boys visit the surfing wave after forcing them to take nice family portraits in the park for mom. Dinner somewhere like Augustinerkeller.
Day 9: Dachau in the morning. Boys need to see it. Be depressed in the afternoon and evening. Maybe an ironic dinner at Hofbrauhaus to drive it home.
Day 10: Try to cheer up, train to Wengen and Alpenstuff.

Any ideas for the accidental flex day? Even moving at a relaxed pace, there's obviously a shit ton of stuff we could add on (BMW museum, Olympicpark although I understand it's being renovated, yadda yadda), so we could just fill that in spontaneously with anything that grabs their interest. I could go for an "oldest brewery rivalry" stop at Weihenstephan between Regensburg and Munich or a visit to Andechs, but it's not supposed to be about me and I don't want to induce brewery fatigue for my patient but non-beer-drinking wife.

I know the big classic thing I'm not including is Neuschwanstein, but my enthusiasm level is low as I found it overrated years ago, the boys give zero fucks about the Cinderella castle, and we're not really going for the Asian tourist vibe (nowaisis). I didn't really want to use a whole day of travel and hiking up the hill for one nice view of a pretty castle exterior, but obviously I'm a surly asshole.

@Damor Interested in your trip, especially the Weltenburg part. I'm cross posting my tentative plan to do Bavaria and Northern Italy from the Italy thread to get the feedback on the German part.

Travelers are me and wife plus kids 19, 17, and almost 13

Land in Munich

  • Get rental car and use it to go to Dachau for a couple of hours and then move on south. Could possibly do another day closer to Munich but not sure what to do.

  • Find a base near the Austria border (Leaning Garmisch or Oberammergau) for 3-4 days and do day trips to Oberammergau, Hohenschwangau, Neuschwanstein, Zugspitze, etc. Turn in Rental car in Germany, maybe in Garmisch-Partenkirchen due to the train line to Innsbruck.

  • Train leg from Garmisch to Innsbruck (80 minutes?). Innsbruck could be a day trip and then continue or overnight stay.

Italy

  • Train leg from Innsbruck to Northern Italy base for 4-5 days. I love Vicenza and have been there multiple times, Padua is another good option. Do things in town and day trips to places like Venice, Citta-Della, Verona, Vicenza/Padua, etc.

  • Venice - From my experience I don't think I want to stay in Venice but take the train in and do a day trip. (Train for 5 people from Vicenza is about $100 round trip without a discount)

  • Train leg to Rome

  • 2 nights in Rome for a full day with priority sightseeing of St Peters, Sistine, Colosseum, and a few others. I've done this solo before and the busses were very easy to use to get around but that was over 20 years ago.

Depart Rome

Notes:

  • I'll be looking to reduce airfare as much as I can so if landing in Frankfurt and a train to Munich area made more sense I would do that so any recommendations welcome.

  • Driving in Italy is not fun, not even when I was in my 20s, so I would like to do intercity trains.

  • Looking at available rail passes and discounts now. If we're there 5-7 days with several intermediate trips and one longer trip I hope I can find something. Something I read said that the Euro rail pass was not a good deal for Italy.

  • Family has never been to Europe. I have been to most places on this list including all the Bavarian sites, Innsbruck, Vicenza, Venice. I have not been to Padua or Verona so I would want to include those. I did a 24 hour layover in Rome 20 years ago.

  • 19 year old wants to see the dolomites, I think a train ride from Innsbruck to Italy sounds good to me. We could get a car and drive up there one day if that doesn't scratch the itch.

Not sure what dates you're looking at or from where, but a few things I've been working out:

Flights: Been hammering Google Flights with permutations. We're doing an early June open jaw into either FRA or MUC and out ZRH. Because my boys are both around 6'3", my wife has had three spine surgeries, and I'm a fatass Surly 2%, gotta do premium economy. Anything involving the direct AUS-FRA Lufthansa flight is running 12k+ for four right now, and AUS in general is so much more expensive we're probably going to fly out of DFW. Best price so far is DFW --> MUC actually (not direct), but there are options from DFW and IAH to both FRA and MUC that are all falling in a similar range ($8-9k total for four premium economy). I figure it's getting time to buy.

Hotels/points: Was planning mostly on booking direct, but right now I've got an offer through my CC portal that gives me an 4 extra points per dollar if I book through Hotels.com. I'd quit using them because their rewards program went to shit, but getting the extra CC points may make it worthwhile. I'm not worthy of the points game on the other thread, though a big chunk of this trip is coming from points I've accumulated over several years.

AI: way more helpful than I could have expected (I avoid it for work). Putting my rough itinerary in was great for picking up conflicts with (or opportunities for) holidays/Sundays which notoriously close things down, and helping consolidate and streamline plans. Still gotta double check for weird hallucinations, but overall a win.

Weltenburg: Been once before, so I have a sentimental attachment. The earliest reference to brewing is that the Master Brewer died in 1050, so they date it from that. It might not be spectacular enough to go out of your way to visit, but it's a nice chill boat ride down the Danube and back from Kelheim, and the beer (especially the dunkel) is excellent with a pretty Baroque/early rococo style abbey. I've always told my boys that if I live until 2050 I want to go for their millennial brewing celebration, but I figure I should hedge my bets and take them now while I have the chance. This is kinda out of the way of what you're looking at, though. While I haven't been to Andechs, I'll bet you could get a similar vibe there (minus the boat trip) closer to where you're headed.

On 1/7/2025 at 12:32 PM, Brisketexan said:

Got to Munich today, pretty tired, didn’t do a whole lot. Wandered a market, seeing all the delicious meats that I cant bring back gives me a sad.
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Laughed at the poor boyfriends of Instagram who have to take 1000 pics of their girl in silly poses.

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And while I may be the LORD OF DONER, I don’t outrank the king of falafel AND shawarma (I presume that is a united kingdom).

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Dinner:

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I assume you were at the big outdoor market not too far from Hofbrauhaus? Love that market. Munich is a cool city.

On 1/5/2026 at 1:42 PM, Damor said:

Grüß dich, Arschlöcher.

Working on my younger son's HS graduation trip in June, and he wants to do Bavaria and the Swiss alps (posted those questions in the Switzerland thread). I haven't been over there in 25 years, and this will be the family's first trip to Europe. I'm trying not to exhaust everyone with bouncing all over the place, but rather hope to approach this trip as inspiring future travel rather than a Griswoldian mission to see all the things. I've been to Regensburg before and it's about our speed (smaller, laid back), so I'm thinking about basically splitting the time between there and Munich as bases. Boys will be 18 and 21, so there will be biergarten visits and giving them space to do things on their own, which also seems to flow better with a slower paced visit.

Gemini and I have come up with the concept of a plan as follows:

Day 1: Arrive Regensburg, looking at staying at a vacation rental in the Altstadt so everything is walkable (not planning on renting a car this trip). Decompress and acclimate.
Day 2: Walk around the Altstadt, let them do some shopping, visit the bridge etc., dinner at somewhere like Kneitinger.
Day 3: We're not Catholic, but this happens to be the Corpus Christi holiday, so it seems like a fortunate opportunity to see what should be impressive services in the cathedral and hopefully a performance of the famed boys' choir, followed by the procession. As long as we're cosplaying Catholic, spend the rest of the day drinking beer at Spitalgarten or something and hanging out with locals on the Jahninsel so they can check out frauleins.
Day 4: Day trip to Kloster Weltenburg (oldest brewing monastery in the world) via Danube riverboat. Indulging beer nerd dad.
Day 5: Flex day, because I accidentally left this out while planning. Furk. Either stay in Regensburg or head to Munich, do a day trip of some sort, or use this for whatever you assholes castigate me for leaving off the plan.
Day 6: Munich, staying near Viktualienmarkt (looking at a couple rooms at Hotel Platzl). If we're just arriving, wander around, get bearings, see Altstadt stuff, eat Doner Kebap und Brezeln.
Day 7: Start at the Deutsches Museum in the morning, back to the Altstadt when we've had enough.
Day 8: Happens to be my wife's birthday, so we'll try to do something nice like a picnic in the Englischer Garten, let the boys visit the surfing wave after forcing them to take nice family portraits in the park for mom. Dinner somewhere like Augustinerkeller.
Day 9: Dachau in the morning. Boys need to see it. Be depressed in the afternoon and evening. Maybe an ironic dinner at Hofbrauhaus to drive it home.
Day 10: Try to cheer up, train to Wengen and Alpenstuff.

Any ideas for the accidental flex day? Even moving at a relaxed pace, there's obviously a shit ton of stuff we could add on (BMW museum, Olympicpark although I understand it's being renovated, yadda yadda), so we could just fill that in spontaneously with anything that grabs their interest. I could go for an "oldest brewery rivalry" stop at Weihenstephan between Regensburg and Munich or a visit to Andechs, but it's not supposed to be about me and I don't want to induce brewery fatigue for my patient but non-beer-drinking wife.

I know the big classic thing I'm not including is Neuschwanstein, but my enthusiasm level is low as I found it overrated years ago, the boys give zero fucks about the Cinderella castle, and we're not really going for the Asian tourist vibe (nowaisis). I didn't really want to use a whole day of travel and hiking up the hill for one nice view of a pretty castle exterior, but obviously I'm a surly asshole.

Maybe it's just me, but I think that any multi-day trip to Munich should include at least one day trip south to see some combination of Oberammergau, Berchtesgaden/Eagle's Nest, Ludwig II's castles, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, etc. I know you made a conscious decision to exclude Neuschwanstein, and you have your reasons that I certainly don't question. But Ludwig II's other two castles (Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee) are each well worth a visit, IMO, and have more lavish interiors than Neuschwanstein. And the mountain scenery in the B-gaden and Garmisch areas is amazing.

With that said, I think it's good that you're taking your kids to see Dachau. It will be sobering, but it's important that they see it and understand what occurred there.

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think that any multi-day trip to Munich should include at least one day trip south to see some combination of Oberammergau, Berchtesgaden/Eagle's Nest, Ludwig II's castles, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, etc. I know you made a conscious decision to exclude Neuschwanstein, and you have your reasons that I certainly don't question. But Ludwig II's other two castles (Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee) are each well worth a visit, IMO, and have more lavish interiors than Neuschwanstein. And the mountain scenery in the B-gaden and Garmisch areas is amazing.

With that said, I think it's good that you're taking your kids to see Dachau. It will be sobering, but it's important that they see it and understand what occurred there.

I know your post was to Damor but I do have all that in my trip. Just trying to figure out the best routes. I think I'm doing pretty well so far.

Damor, I did put my trip into AI and it added details that I had in my head but laid them out. I did not include dates yet since they are note settled but that will be next.

I don't have a strategy on the CC/points game yet. I don't have a lot of regular travel and don't have the cards with annual fees. I typically use American and Hilton but will be flexible. Looking at Booking.com for all the smaller places I'm going and finding a good selection.

Edited by TexasEd

@Carl Spackler , that's a good point, and I probably am brushing off the whole area too quickly based on limited prior experience with Neuschwanstein. I think I was also leaning on the Switzerland portion of the trip which I didn't detail (5 days in Wengen/Lauterbrunnen vallley) to scratch der Alpen-itch.

That said, I do have that accidental flex day in there. Do you think a day trip would be enough to hit some of the high points? Rent a car for the day maybe? If so, I could offer up some choices of things to see and do so it doesn't seem like I'm some kind of vacation fascist, ruling the itinerary with an iron fist, and... uh...

30 minutes ago, Damor said:

@Carl Spackler , that's a good point, and I probably am brushing off the whole area too quickly based on limited prior experience with Neuschwanstein. I think I was also leaning on the Switzerland portion of the trip which I didn't detail (5 days in Wengen/Lauterbrunnen vallley) to scratch der Alpen-itch.

That said, I do have that accidental flex day in there. Do you think a day trip would be enough to hit some of the high points? Rent a car for the day maybe? If so, I could offer up some choices of things to see and do so it doesn't seem like I'm some kind of vacation fascist, ruling the itinerary with an iron fist, and... uh...

If you're going to be in the Wengen/Lauterbrunnen area for 5 days, then, yeah, you'll certainly get a big dose of awesome Alpine scenery such that seeing the German Alps might not be as important as it otherwise would be. But I still think it would be worthwhile to take a day and do a side trip south of Munich. I think you could hit two or maybe even three worthwhile places (some of which I mentioned) in a day trip if you were to rent a car, depending on what you want to see and how much time you budget. It's been many years since I visited Bavaria, so others might have different thoughts or additional ideas re: what to see.

3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

@Damor Interested in your trip, especially the Weltenburg part. I'm cross posting my tentative plan to do Bavaria and Northern Italy from the Italy thread to get the feedback on the German part.

Travelers are me and wife plus kids 19, 17, and almost 13

Land in Munich

  • Get rental car and use it to go to Dachau for a couple of hours and then move on south. Could possibly do another day closer to Munich but not sure what to do.

  • Find a base near the Austria border (Leaning Garmisch or Oberammergau) for 3-4 days and do day trips to Oberammergau, Hohenschwangau, Neuschwanstein, Zugspitze, etc. Turn in Rental car in Germany, maybe in Garmisch-Partenkirchen due to the train line to Innsbruck.

  • Train leg from Garmisch to Innsbruck (80 minutes?). Innsbruck could be a day trip and then continue or overnight stay.

Italy

  • Train leg from Innsbruck to Northern Italy base for 4-5 days. I love Vicenza and have been there multiple times, Padua is another good option. Do things in town and day trips to places like Venice, Citta-Della, Verona, Vicenza/Padua, etc.

  • Venice - From my experience I don't think I want to stay in Venice but take the train in and do a day trip. (Train for 5 people from Vicenza is about $100 round trip without a discount)

  • Train leg to Rome

  • 2 nights in Rome for a full day with priority sightseeing of St Peters, Sistine, Colosseum, and a few others. I've done this solo before and the busses were very easy to use to get around but that was over 20 years ago.

Depart Rome

Notes:

  • I'll be looking to reduce airfare as much as I can so if landing in Frankfurt and a train to Munich area made more sense I would do that so any recommendations welcome.

  • Driving in Italy is not fun, not even when I was in my 20s, so I would like to do intercity trains.

  • Looking at available rail passes and discounts now. If we're there 5-7 days with several intermediate trips and one longer trip I hope I can find something. Something I read said that the Euro rail pass was not a good deal for Italy.

  • Family has never been to Europe. I have been to most places on this list including all the Bavarian sites, Innsbruck, Vicenza, Venice. I have not been to Padua or Verona so I would want to include those. I did a 24 hour layover in Rome 20 years ago.

  • 19 year old wants to see the dolomites, I think a train ride from Innsbruck to Italy sounds good to me. We could get a car and drive up there one day if that doesn't scratch the itch.

We did a similar trip last summer with two kids (then 15 and 13) and had a blast.

Munich (Hotel Vier Jareszeiten Kempinski)

  • City sightseeing for a couple days

  • Dachau

Then we rented a car and drove down to Garmisch-Partenkirchen (Gasthof Frauendorfer). Now I'm going to tell you--if I had to do that over again, I think I'd stay in Fussen or Mittenwald. Garmisch is better placed for the Zugspitze--and you should definitely go to the top of the Zugspitze--but Fussen is better placed for Ludwig's castles. The thing about Garmisch is that it was the base for all the American troops in the area, and there just aren't any American troops left in the area. So it has a bit of a feel of a town that is near a closed Army base. That being said, everyone speaks English there in case you don't speak a lick of German.

  • King Ludwig's castles (I have a whole post on that itinerary earlier in this thread)

  • Zugspitze--pro tip: rent climbing gear in town so that you can clip in and go up to the summit

  • 1936 Olympic Stadium

  • Summer alpine sled next to the Olympic Stadium (note--that thing will absolutely fly off the tracks if you don't use the brake (don't ask me how I know))

  • Paraglyding over Schloss Neuschwanstein

From Garmish-Partenkirchen, we drove down to Laengenfeld in the Oteztal Valley and stayed at the Aqua Dome. That was super fun. Think of it as a Great Wolf Lodge meets Austrian thermal spa. So there are a couple water slides for the kids. A full spa for the grownups (i.e., anybody over 16). And in the area, there's a lot of hiking, whitewater rafting, canyoning, mountain biking, and other outdoor activities. We loved it.

After that, we drove to Salzburg (Hotel Sacher)

  • Fraulein Maria's Sound of Music bike tour--note that you should be reasonably comfortable on a bike.

  • Walk around the city and go up to the fortress

  • The water gardens--i.e., gardens with water features that shoot water at you--at Schloss Hellbrunn are fun

  • Siftskeller St. Peter is a very good restaurant and claims to be the oldest in the world, with it first mentioned in any historical record in 803 when Charlemagne ate there.

Then we took the train to Vienna (Hotel Imperial).

Now I'm going to tell you something about Vienna: this was low-key Mrs.LL's request. But I was blown away by Vienna. It's an imperial capital like London or Paris. And whereas you get good Indian food in London or a North African vibe at times in Paris because of their old empires, the former Austrian empire was Southeastern Europe. What the British would call the "Near East." So it has a bit of that "oriential" feel to it while still being a Western European capital.

  • The Capuchin Crypt where all the Hapsburgs are buried

  • The Imperial Treasury, which has the crown of the Holy Roman Emperor dating to 963, one of the holy lances, and a piece of the underwear of John the Baptist (which my daughter really loved)

  • The Army Museum, which has the car Franz Ferdinand was riding in when he was shot, along with his bloodstained uniform

  • Charlottenberg Palace--kind of an Austrian Versailles

  • Plenty of little cafes where you can sit and have a coffee or an Aperol spritz and just watch the city walk by

Anyway--happy to answer any question about any or all of these stops or any vendors.

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