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JoseMedinaDeJesus

Dog experts, I am considering putting a deposit on a pet first/family member, protection dog.

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3 months ago I had to euthanize my 13 year old vizsla.  A brain tumor rendered him blind, incontinent, and left him pacing the house frantically while fighting off terrible seizures.  We now have just our 130 lbs, 12 year old blood hound.  He was a very territorial defender of my home and family until about 3.5 years ago.  He is still the best boy ever. But a lazy one who won't bother to wake up for anything other than dinner and a poo. 

I have never had a dog with high protection drive.  I am not looking for a malinois, dogo argentino, fila, etc.  I want a dog with the energy and intelligence of my vizsla but with strong protection drive.  I think that I have settled in on a Giant Schnauzer.   A large male who can handle 3 mile runs 4 to 5 days a week.  Intelligence and attitude to fit into a family.  But still a dog that insists on being a family member. As to my need for a dog like this, there are many guns in the home as well as quite a lot of jewelry. But most importantly my family is home at night while I am at work.

What kind of special considerations do I need to take into accout for a breed like this? I am looking online but i really am not seeing a lot of information other than copy and paste "dog breeds rated" clickbait.  Thanks in advance.

Just for fun, my big boy.

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And my good buddy Augustus.  He looks pretty terrible here. It was his last day.

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Our neighbor had two Giant Schnauzers in succession.  The dude ran with them a lot (so that probably works).  Dog barked like crazy at our two schnauzer mixes through the fence and seemed really sweet when we saw him without our dogs.  They moved to Costa Rica and had to ship the second GS, Roman.  Apparently he got loose in the Orlando or Miami airport and caused chaos.  But he seemed sweet.

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2 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

I have only interacted with one giant. But he was a highly trained dog that was almost to the point in his training where he was going to be deployed to a prison for riot control purposes.  The only other schnauzer I have been around was a standard who left me with a scar on my right leg.  He was an asshole.  I have seen giants in person and they seem very pleasant and sharp.

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2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I got bit by a Schnauzer on my ass when I was 12. Not a fan.....

I too was 11 or 12 at the time.  Hated that dog and still know his name 30 years later. Spike. But spike was the result of poor dog ownership.  A socialization issue.

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5 minutes ago, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

I too was 11 or 12 at the time.  Hated that dog and still know his name 30 years later. Spike. But spike was the result of poor dog ownership.  A socialization issue.

Oh yeah I don't really hate the dog, it's the owner that creates the good or bad behavior for the most part.

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2nd Blackmouth Cur or maybe a Chesapeake if you are comfortable and confident with training and disciple early on.  Chessies can be a bit difficult for a passive owners b/c they are so hardheaded.

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Maybe a Rhodesian ridgeback. But they get lazy as they get older so I doubt they will do the running part. However, they are great protective family dogs

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Most protective dog I've ever had is my Dalmatian. Fearless against anything she felt was a threat to me or her family. She's 16 now and too old to really do anything, but she is still the first one to try and set people straight. 

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A friend in high school had a Doberman. Very friendly with everyone but very protective of its owner. You can call Zeus or Apollo.

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A friend in high school had a Doberman. Very friendly with everyone but very protective of its owner. You can call Zeus or Apollo.
Brother in law always has/had dobermans and I agree with this. The only issue is they all seem to have leg issues pretty early on.

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Old Yeller was a blackmouth cur. And he was awesome. Until he got rabies and wasn't awesome anymore.

He got tha hydrophoby.

Thread needs moar Caucasian Shepherd.

Kids age will make a difference. Like someone mentioned, that’s not necessarily a good idea with young kids. Some of the best dogs we had were mutts.

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I have a friend with a BMK and a Mini Schnauzer.  The MS was a rescue and has some temper issues.  The BMK is the sweetest thing in the world. 

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4 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

How young are your kids?  Some “protective” dogs aren’t super safe around little children.  

Not a kid at all.  She is closer to having her own kids than she is to being a kid.

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1 hour ago, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

Not a kid at all.  She is closer to having her own kids than she is to being a kid.

Any thoughts to an Airedale?  They are tough sons of bitches and extremely protective.  They were used by the British in WWI to guard the lines.  They're really active - not couch dogs. 

Akitas are really protective, too.  But they are better suited to small children they can grow up with.  I just think they're cool looking.

 

Edited by Liquor and Poker

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7 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Old Yeller was a blackmouth cur. And he was awesome. Until he got rabies and wasn't awesome anymore.

OY was just doing his job. It really wasn't a rabid wolf that have him the rabies. 

It was a collie from the B/CS area.

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6 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Airedale

Akitas

 

 

8 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Caucasian Shepherd

 

10 hours ago, HouTex said:

Doberman.

 

12 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

2nd Blackmouth Cur or maybe a Chesapeake 

 

23 hours ago, deadshank said:

Get a blackmouth cur. 

 I have considered an Airedale.  Id like something a bit larger and less "terrier"  but they are fine dogs.

I am also considering a Doberman.  But there is something about the GIant Schnauzer that I like a lot. Maybe its because you dont see them every day.

Caucasian shepherds, akitas, filas etc are a bit much dog. At least in respect to aggression.  

 

10 hours ago, HouTex said:

A friend in high school had a Doberman. Very friendly with everyone but very protective of its owner. You can call Zeus or Apollo.

I prefer history over mythology.  German dog named Arminius will do well.  It will most certainly end up in a 100lbs dog being called "mini"

Edited by JoseMedinaDeJesus

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7 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

My post was in jest. Those dogs will eat everything.

The number of people who reccomend such things in a serious manner are numerous.  

9 minutes ago, Deej said:

If you want a dog that will kill anyone that fucks with you, get a Chow.

I will pass.  Have known 2 chows. Mean mean animals.  Both of them.

 

Edited by JoseMedinaDeJesus

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3 minutes ago, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

 

Cant stand shows.  Terrible animals and i suspect we agree.

 

They are meant for one thing: fucking shit up. They love their masters. Everyone else gets killed.

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Why are GSD getting no love? Amazing PPD and super fun loving dogs when it isn't kill shit time. You don't have to get one that is an asshole to everyone else. 

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16 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why are GSD getting no love? Amazing PPD and super fun loving dogs when it isn't kill shit time. You don't have to get one that is an asshole to everyone else. 

That's exactly why I was leaning towards the giant and doberman but mostly the giant.  My wife was a surgery tech in a specialty vet clinic.  Doing spinals, joint and bone repairs, etc etc.  She is now a geologist, but harbors feelings that GSD's have more than their fair share of hip and health problems.  That is truly the only reason they have been crossed off of the list. 

Edited by JoseMedinaDeJesus

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Those are show GSD not working GSD. Working GSD don't have nearly as many issues and aren't bred for the sloping back and weird squat posture thing or to look pretty in general. 

I will admit those 2 other breeds have no significant health risks associated with them that I know of. 

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Those are show GSD not working GSD. Working GSD don't have nearly as many issues and aren't bred for the sloping back and weird squat posture thing or to look pretty in general. 
I will admit those 2 other breeds have no significant health risks associated with them that I know of. 

Working lines are bred to take a beating too.

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You should look into a coyote. I've been on Nextdoor a bit over the past month and apparently they are prevalent, in need of good homes, and quite dangerous. 

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:16 PM, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

I have never had a dog with high protection drive.  I am not looking for a malinois, dogo argentino, fila, etc.  I want a dog with the energy and intelligence of my vizsla but with strong protection drive.  I think that I have settled in on a Giant Schnauzer.   A large male who can handle 3 mile runs 4 to 5 days a week.  Intelligence and attitude to fit into a family.  But still a dog that insists on being a family member. As to my need for a dog like this, there are many guns in the home as well as quite a lot of jewelry. But most importantly my family is home at night while I am at work.

What kind of special considerations do I need to take into account for a breed like this? visits to the groomer?

I love your choice in the giant schnauzer.  if you are still studying other breeds take a look at the dutch shepherd.  they are basically a more mentally stable malinois.  I came across the hollandse herder while looking to buy a german shepherd to guard a property.  he went to a ranch that had a problem with unannounced strangers walking up to the house.  now randoms don't help themselves in and those that drive up stay in their cars and honk the horn for someone to put the dog up.  everyone around now knows not to go up to the house guarded by the "hyena" (they actually mean african wild dog), as the dog became known when he was puppy before he grew into his enormous ears.

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You should look at Catahoulas as well. A well bred Catahoula will get between any threats and their owners. They will bark when strangers come around. They will growl and act mean if they come into the yard and you aren't there to tell them to quit, but they won't usually actually get aggressive since they are bay dogs. They are also really good with children. They do require some space or regular exercise, especially when they are younger, but any dog with a strong protection drive will as well.

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6 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

You should look at Catahoulas as well. A well bred Catahoula will get between any threats and their owners. They will bark when strangers come around. They will growl and act mean if they come into the yard and you aren't there to tell them to quit, but they won't usually actually get aggressive since they are bay dogs. They are also really good with children. They do require some space or regular exercise, especially when they are younger, but any dog with a strong protection drive will as well.

Not a fan. A buddy has one. They have a bizarre odor, and can be uber aggressive. There are much better herding breeds than that mongrel.

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I hope that anyone looking to get a personal protection dog isn't under the impression that by bringing home a malinois/dogo/cane corso/rottweiler/gsd/doberman puppy it will one day automagically turn into a badass personal guard.  the only way you can be confident that you'll have a dog that will protect you when needed and bring him under control when not, is by training and working him.

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2 hours ago, hornimal said:

I hope that anyone looking to get a personal protection dog isn't under the impression that by bringing home a malinois/dogo/cane corso/rottweiler/gsd/doberman puppy it will one day automagically turn into a badass personal guard.  the only way you can be confident that you'll have a dog that will protect you when needed and bring him under control when not, is by training and working him.

Thats the point in a GS to me. While naturally defensive and protective, it is not a bite first type of dog like the dogo, Malinois, etc etc. I don't want that type of dog.  I want a family dog with protective instinct and confidence.  But not a killing machine. A family member first. Regardless, training will be done.  The effort that went into my bird dog and fat sleepy hound will go into the GS. However, I do think we will stop shy of full blown PPD.  Again I want an imposing figure who is disciplined and well mannered but willing to defend his family.

As an after thought to your previous post in this thread. I have seen a couple Dutch Shepherds and never knew what they were.   Have always thought they were a really cool dog.  But wasn't sure about their temperament.  But I am going to look more into them. 

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4 hours ago, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

Thats the point in a GS to me. While naturally defensive and protective, it is not a bite first type of dog like the dogo, Malinois, etc etc. I don't want that type of dog.  I want a family dog with protective instinct and confidence.  But not a killing machine. A family member first. Regardless, training will be done.  The effort that went into my bird dog and fat sleepy hound will go into the GS. However, I do think we will stop shy of full blown PPD.  Again I want an imposing figure who is disciplined and well mannered but willing to defend his family.

As an after thought to your previous post in this thread. I have seen a couple Dutch Shepherds and never knew what they were.   Have always thought they were a really cool dog.  But wasn't sure about their temperament.  But I am going to look more into them. 

the breeder I got my dutchie from also trains police and military dogs.  I got a male and my business partner got a female from the same litter, when my dog finished his PPD course and before he was allowed to go home I was told that since he had had bite work training there were certain activities the dog couldn't do, like being shown unless it with a very experienced handler and judge that was made aware of the dog's background.  my partner's dog is dialed up to 11.  she lives at a sports academy that has an enrollment of over 550 kids and she's perfectly fine being at loud game environments, watching the main office during the day, and sometimes being off leash when her owner or caretaker move around.

you can't go wrong with a GS and it sounds like you will be a responsible owner.

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There you go.  That is the phrase that my dog vocabulary lacks.  Bite work training.   I don't want or need that.  I want a good buddy who understands his place in the home as a confident family member.

 

I appreciate your responses and lack of fila brasilero recommendations.  Once i settle on a pup i will maybe start a thread to show him off.

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On 9/12/2019 at 8:49 AM, HouTex said:

A friend in high school had a Doberman. Very friendly with everyone but very protective of its owner. You can call Zeus or Apollo.

About 30 years ago, I kept a boat at Dana Point Harbor.   Zeus and Apollo lived nearby, and were frequent visitors at the harbor.  They were super cool, and posed for a million pics. 

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Something to take into consideration perhaps is that you shouldn't run long distances with a young dog. I forget if the recommendation is to wait until they're 1 or 2 years old because their bones and joints need to grow, but your vet will know, obvs.

Small dogs are more prone to bark and a barking dog is generally enough to scare away someone trying to break in. Also the bark gives anyone in the house warning that someone or something is passing by.

I've had 3 large dogs, the aforementioned Rhodesian Ridgebacks. They are awesome dogs and their size will intimidate a non-dog person. But they have been pretty inconsistent at being territorial - a lot it seems depends on their individual 'personality.' We didn't train them to be territorial or protective though so results may vary.

Also something else for you to consider is (I think) it typically takes a dog 2 years before a protective instinct kicks in, if they have one. That was my experience and what I heard when we first adopted.  

Edited by Chopper

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10 hours ago, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

There you go.  That is the phrase that my dog vocabulary lacks.  Bite work training.   I don't want or need that.  I want a good buddy who understands his place in the home as a confident family member.

 

I appreciate your responses and lack of fila brasilero recommendations.  Once i settle on a pup i will maybe start a thread to show him off.

we have a fila at the academy.  they are awesome close quarters guardians, but even though they can roam forever on a long leash I wouldn't run them 4 to 5 miles 3 times a week at a jogging pace unless you want to wear their joints out quick.

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3 hours ago, Chopper said:

 

About a year is safe for most large dogs. But a vet visit to make sure is never a bad idea.

 

Protective instinct is different in most breeds.  A fila for example, they have been known to show agression to outsiders as early as 5 months.

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:16 PM, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

there are many guns in the home as well as quite a lot of jewelry. 

If you gave up your career as a drug kingpin, you might not need a watchdog. 

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5 hours ago, Chopper said:

Also something else for you to consider is (I think) it typically takes a dog 2 years before a protective instinct kicks in, if they have one. That was my experience and what I heard when we first adopted.  

that seems like a long time to me.  I know all breeds are different, my dutch shepherd attacked the housekeeper when she grabbed the towel he slept on to clean it at about 3 months old, at 4 months he started barking at people that came to the front door, at 6 he was back at his breeder for obedience training and they started working him on the leash.  I grew up with neapolitan mastiffs in my family and at about 6 months old was when you could let them sleep outside because they could hold their own and someone wasn't going to hop over the wall to steal a blue eyed puppy.

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On 9/12/2019 at 10:49 AM, HouTex said:

A friend in high school had a Doberman. Very friendly with everyone but very protective of its owner. You can call Zeus or Apollo.

We had one growing up named Apollo but he was all bark no bite, unless you were another animal.  He once disappeared for a couple days and came back all beat up, we later found three dead coyotes on a part of the land away from the house.  He fought a pack and won.  

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On 9/14/2019 at 1:12 AM, JoseMedinaDeJesus said:

 Once i settle on a pup i will maybe start a thread to show him off.

we already haz a thread for that , feel free to post idiot pupper pics when available.

 

My vote for family defender is Rottie, GSD, and Doberman.... them Germans really liked protective dogs.

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On 9/13/2019 at 3:06 PM, Big D said:

Get a Doberman.  Mine even protects me while I take a shit.

 

6224D7EC-F7DD-43D6-B718-CBBB4D7CAE38.jpeg

this breed obviously has a poor sense of smell 

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