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Hank Kingsley

The future of the Progressive Left

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No earth shattering takes here, but an easy read on what went wrong for the left and the uncertainty of how to move forward. 

 

Will be very interesting to see how the left re-shapes itself now that Bernie's presidential runs are over.  His movement had good timing back in 2016 coming off of 8 Obama years and Clinton as his opponent. Using the same strategy while Trump is in office was clearly a mistake. Good opportunity for some fresh faces to emerge. 

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Good opportunity for some fresh faces to emerge. 

Too bad they’ll be shot down by the old faces in power.

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2 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Too bad they’ll be shot down by the old faces in power.

Well, if the left continues to treat Democrats as their main enemy, you're right. They'll be shot down. 

If the message is tweaked and promotes coalition building, the old faces will be willing to listen IMO. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Too bad they’ll be shot down by the old faces in power.

Aren't you the guy that constantly cries about the cloak room in the DT Covid thread? Why are you here? You're not a hypocrite, are you?

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19 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well, if the left continues to treat Democrats as their main enemy, you're right. They'll be shot down. 

If the message is tweaked and promotes coalition building, the old faces will be willing to listen IMO. 

 

Troof.

As long as AOC and her wing of the party are more interested in purity tests, they will continue to hold no influence beyond the coastal big cities.

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1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Aren't you the guy that constantly cries about the cloak room in the DT Covid thread? Why are you here? You're not a hypocrite, are you?

You can rest assured, I will never spend much time here. People who do are almost impossible to be around because it consumes their lives. My “cries” have been in regards to other people’s efforts to make DT an extension of the CR. Look back, I’ve been here before, and will again. This is a legitimate topic, not a non progressive circle-jerk, yet.

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They need to recalibrate their expectations and try to move incrementally. You can't just ban private insurance, ban fracking, implement static wealth taxes etc. without massive negative disruptions to daily life. I think the average american and average democrat realizes that and roll their eyes at the AOC's of the world who don't invest the critical thought to realize the negative side-effects of their proposals. While their goals are commendable, they have failed to come up with a realistic pathway  to get there, work on that path and get back to us in 4 years, until then most Americans aren't going to jump when they have no idea where they will land. 

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13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well, if the left continues to treat Democrats as their main enemy, you're right. They'll be shot down. 

If the message is tweaked and promotes coalition building, the old faces will be willing to listen IMO. 

 

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learned from the transition from obama to trump it is that elections have consequences. Trump isn’t the fault of progressives, but democrats inability to work together to build a winning coalition that both excites the base and is rooted in the practical realities of what it takes to win elections.

We can’t want everything all at once, which is hard for some people to accept. The reality is that we share this country with a shitload of trumpkins and people who are sympathetic enough to him to stay home instead of voting for a democrat. There is no quick fix and you can’t implement progressive policies until you start winning elections.

Drop the purity tests. Find issues that all democrats can agree on. Mobilize voters and fundraise. Win elections far and wide, turning red states blue. Keep shifting the narrative to the left over time as demographics change.

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2 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learned from the transition from obama to trump it is that elections have consequences. Trump isn’t the fault of progressives, but democrats inability to work together to build a winning coalition that both excites the base and is rooted in the practical realities of what it takes to win elections.

We can’t want everything all at once, which is hard for some people to accept. The reality is that we share this country with a shitload of trumpkins and people who are sympathetic enough to him to stay home instead of voting for a democrat. There is no quick fix and you can’t implement progressive policies until you start winning elections.

Drop the purity tests. Find issues that all democrats can agree on. Mobilize voters and fundraise. Win elections far and wide, turning red states blue. Keep shifting the narrative to the left over time as demographics change.

That's what I was trying to say, but you said it better. 

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1 minute ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learned from the transition from obama to trump it is that elections have consequences. Trump isn’t the fault of progressives, but democrats inability to work together to build a winning coalition that both excites the base and is rooted in the practical realities of what it takes to win elections.

We can’t want everything all at once, which is hard for some people to accept. The reality is that we share this country with a shitload of trumpkins and people who are sympathetic enough to him to stay home instead of voting for a democrat. There is no quick fix and you can’t implement progressive policies until you start winning elections.

Drop the purity tests. Find issues that all democrats can agree on. Mobilize voters and fundraise. Win elections far and wide, turning red states blue. Keep shifting the narrative to the left over time as demographics change.

Great post. 

IMO another big issue with the current iteration of the Progressive Left is their loudest thought leaders seem to mostly be white class traitors that live in Brooklyn. Amplify and elevate POC voices from other parts of the country. It's harder to win over black voters and the Midwest when there isn't significant representation at the higher levels of their movement.

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7 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learned from the transition from obama to trump it is that elections have consequences. Trump isn’t the fault of progressives, but democrats inability to work together to build a winning coalition that both excites the base and is rooted in the practical realities of what it takes to win elections.

We can’t want everything all at once, which is hard for some people to accept. The reality is that we share this country with a shitload of trumpkins and people who are sympathetic enough to him to stay home instead of voting for a democrat. There is no quick fix and you can’t implement progressive policies until you start winning elections.

Drop the purity tests. Find issues that all democrats can agree on. Mobilize voters and fundraise. Win elections far and wide, turning red states blue. Keep shifting the narrative to the left over time as demographics change.

This.  There's actually a huge opportunity for progressive ideas right now.  Many people are seeing eyes-wide-open many of our systemic failures.  We do not have a system that provides any meaningful protection or looks out for "the little guy."  It doesn't have to be that way.

From healthcare to income inequality, Americans are rapidly becoming more open to ideas that lean progressive.  If the progressive left can focus on "getting shit done" as opposed to their Bernie-type purity tests which lead them to spew more venom towards the people who could be their allies and partners than they spew at their ideological enemies, we can see some real structural changes happening.

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The AOC model, i.e., primary-ing the old guard, is a good way to keep centrists/establishment folks more honest. Problem is that you've only taken 1/435th of the House and made it more progressive. (For the record, I like AOC a lot.)

Flipping red districts/states into blue ones instead of blue districts into bluer ones achieves SO MUCH more. The structure of Congress, esp. the Senate, and our winner-take-all system (as opposed to proportionate representation/weighted choice) makes it so we can't even have a conversation about the massive aspirations of the left until more of the red becomes blue.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

You can rest assured, I will never spend much time here. People who do are almost impossible to be around because it consumes their lives. My “cries” have been in regards to other people’s efforts to make DT an extension of the CR. Look back, I’ve been here before, and will again. This is a legitimate topic, not a non progressive circle-jerk, yet.

Uh huh.

Your cries are because "no politics" is code for "no liberals" and you and the handful of other pussies over there want your very own echo chamber, while retaining your ability to create low effort drive by posts on this board.

Snowflakes.

 

But by all means, stick around. Maybe you'll learn something.

Edited by BradInATX

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The party's had a lot of disaffected former Republicans come into the tent, which tilts the balance of power to the moderate wing of the party. That's probably thr single biggest thing this cycle. Many of these voters will return to the GOP in 2022 and beyond. Over the same time period, the numbers of older, more moderate democrats will naturally dwindle and more progressive millenials and gen z will take on more leadership. I'd think this is the older wing's battle of the bulge, but we'll see. If the GOP remains the white nationalist party maybe more of those gen x Republicans stick around and bolster the moderate wing.

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13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Uh huh.

Your cries are because "no politics" is code for "no liberals" and you and the handful of other pussies over there want your very own echo chamber, while retaining your ability to create low effort drive by posts on this board.

Snowflakes.

 

But by all means, stick around. Maybe you'll learn something.

See there, you want to label me but are extremely ignorant in doing so. I don’t want to hear political shit from either “side” over there. My views may be too complex for your simple mind.

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1 hour ago, Casual Encounter said:

Too bad they’ll be shot down by the old faces in power.

Circling fire squad. 

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2 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

The AOC model, i.e., primary-ing the old guard, is a good way to keep centrists/establishment folks more honest. Problem is that you've only taken 1/435th of the House and made it more progressive. (For the record, I like AOC a lot.)

Flipping red districts/states into blue ones instead of blue districts into bluer ones achieves SO MUCH more. The structure of Congress, esp. the Senate, and our winner-take-all system (as opposed to proportionate representation/weighted choice) makes it so we can't even have a conversation about the massive aspirations of the left until more of the red becomes blue.

I'm not sure one is more valuable than others in terms of advancing the progressive agenda. Certainly you need to flip more places blue if you have any hope of getting meaningful legislation passed, but the loudest voices on the left are responsible for the fact that we're even talking about things like M4A. Four years ago it was an absolute non-starter and now it's a popular idea, thanks to Bernie. Bit of a chicken-egg, I think. 

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See there, you want to label me but are extremely ignorant in doing so. I don’t want to hear political shit from either “side” over there. My views may be too complex for your simple mind.

@Anastasis sock confirmed.

 

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1 minute ago, Casual Encounter said:

My views may be too complex for your simple mind.

😂😂😂

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Just now, gmr548 said:
5 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:
See there, you want to label me but are extremely ignorant in doing so. I don’t want to hear political shit from either “side” over there. My views may be too complex for your simple mind.

@Anastasis sock confirmed.

False, he'd also add a gif.

 

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25 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learned from the transition from obama to trump it is that elections have consequences. Trump isn’t the fault of progressives, but democrats inability to work together to build a winning coalition that both excites the base and is rooted in the practical realities of what it takes to win elections.

We can’t want everything all at once, which is hard for some people to accept. The reality is that we share this country with a shitload of trumpkins and people who are sympathetic enough to him to stay home instead of voting for a democrat. There is no quick fix and you can’t implement progressive policies until you start winning elections.

Drop the purity tests. Find issues that all democrats can agree on. Mobilize voters and fundraise. Win elections far and wide, turning red states blue. Keep shifting the narrative to the left over time as demographics change.

Change is difficult for most people, because it portends uncertainty and thus insecurity.  We have had a lot of change thrown at us recently, and we got swamped by it.  I feel that's why Biden prevailed, because people are comfortable with the old way.  Talking change, taking time to mull it over.   Kind of like remodeling a space.  Needs lots of thought before action to get everyone on board.   

We can do that, that's what this coalition would bring to the table.   

Plan that is well thought through,

Needs to be compact, something people can uptake and trust without worrying about the fine print,

Arguments and assurances for moving forward,

A measuring stick built in to keep things on track towards the goals.

 

And yes, one thing at a time, not everything at once.   Think about what's going on now.  Trump pushes MAGA, which basically is rolling back changes that have been made in the past decades that still make people uncomfortable.  The R's use abortion and the economy as their touchstones.  Everything else they fight.  

But until we get rid of corruption we are screwed.  The healthcare conglomerates, big pharma, NRA, defense contractors and O&G own our government for the most part.   Curtail their influence and we have a fighting chance.    

I just want to make america great, no again about it.  Change the way we look at life, what our goals are.  Get to caring more about each other than our bank accts.  That's where we need to be headed.   

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14 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I'd think this is the older wing's battle of the bulge, but we'll see. If the GOP remains the white nationalist party maybe more of those gen x Republicans stick around and bolster the moderate wing.

As a Gen-X former generally Republican voter (I always crossed the aisle for particular candidates -- hell, the first campaign I worked for was Mark White's v. Bill Clements), I'll never go back to the GOP.  Ever.  I honestly can't conceive of a world where I'd even cross the aisle to vote for a particularly "meritorious" GOP candidate in a downballot race.  Because what the GOP has done, and chosen to be, is unforgivable to me.  Saying someone is a good GOP politician is, to me, like saying that "I know he's a member of a racist death cult, but he has some good ideas about transportation."  It's a non-starter.  Being a member of the GOP is evidence of a completely disqualifying character flaw.

My kids will never vote GOP.  Even my son, who is reasonably conservative (relative to the rest of the family) is left-of-center.  And he's politically-minded (as a vocation).  He may be the future of the "moderate" wing of the Democratic party, and I can tell you that he accepts a lot of things we old farts might call "progressive" as being rather mainstream.

Future democrats are going to be much more "progressive" than current ones.  That's being baked in by the political climate of the past 10+ years and the current situation.  Contrast the core message of Obama's speech last night -- we have to look out for each other, and serving the common good has to be part of our calculus -- versus the shouted refrain from the right of "ME, ME, MINE!", and the contrast couldn't be more stark.  A shitload of younger voters are more community and society-minded.  They hold the radical idea that maybe we should give a shit about our fellow man, not just ourselves.  And that foundational belief is very compatible with progressive ideas.  We've gone all-in on the church of the individual, and we are reaping the whirlwind of that right now.  They aren't going to forget.  Ever.

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3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

😂😂😂

Truth is, I don’t think you have a simple mind, just a corrupted one. You appear rather intelligent in many ways but constantly come across as an asshole. 

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It starts with showing up in an election year with redistricting on the table. You know, now. More Dem seats, more opportunities.

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I reject the notion of the article that the progressive left lost because Bernie and some specific candidates lost.

The goal is a political revolution, which absolutely CAN involve the direct election of progressive left politicians, but that's just the ideal state. Another state of victory is shifting the concept of what is acceptable and what is necessary, and that war never stops.

Joe Biden beat Bernie Sanders in the primary, but when it comes to an actual thought leader in this party, Bernie is still ahead of Joe.

But specific to this article and subsequent commentary...

When people talk about the left needing "coalition-building" here, it really seems like that's code for "make center-right white suburbanites feel comfortable" which isn't the point. We need to make ourselves uncomfortable for once and look at the needs of the actual coalition the progressive left builds, which is a very broad and diverse nationwide set of working class people.

Bernie had the most diverse base of support by far. Bernie had the youth vote locked down by far.

The progressive left isn't doomed because it hurt people's feelings on Twitter, the progressive left is doomed because it will forever be outgunned by capital and those who, wittingly or unwittingly, work on behalf of capital.

So if one's diagnosis is "build a coalition with capital" then there's no point in the progressive left and it doesn't exist anymore. That's what the Democrats did by rejecting progressivism in the wake of Jimmy Carter, rejecting (Jesse) Jacksonian populism and choosing Clintonian corporatism in the late 80s/early 90s. What we were left with in the wake of that was astonishing inequality, a prison state, and perpetual war.

tenor.gif?itemid=9584457

So I think anyone who talks about "building coalitions" needs to explain specifically with whom those coalitions need to be built. Anyone talking about "building bridges" needs to say where those bridges connect.

The level of concern trolling here is remarkable, from the guy who broke the "BERNIE'S TEAM IS TESTING A CANVASSING PHRASE THAT SAYS BERNIE IS BETTER THAN WARREN!" bombshell quoted by a poster who spent a year concern-trolling the left on behalf of a coalition with the racial diversity of the Klan and the educational/economic attainment of the audience of

Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me!

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

In before b_t destroys this thread.

Never stop being a bitch. :)

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In before b_t destroys this thread.
Bradinatx is already trying

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My 2 cents.

The left keeps giving the right enough talking points to piss off their base and vote for all Republicans. 23 Trillion for Medicare for All. Socialism. - Will take your guns away. 2nd Amendment. - Open our borders and let them in. Immigration. The list goes on and on. Every Republican candidate is using these very same talking points in their ads and it’s working and has been working for 20 years. Every now and then they’ll bring a new one in just to keep it fresh. Caravans comes to mind. So what do we have that we can keep in a simple statement without having to write a 50 page booklet on?  And I agree, the Dems are not together and hurt themselves instead of helping. IMO, the main reason to vote for Dems is the Supreme Court. Where is that message?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, elfenix said:
47 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:
In before b_t destroys this thread.

Bradinatx is already trying

 

Pre-emptive strike. This thread is going to suck so many balls. It's going to be nothing but drive-bys by Trump supporters and yet another b_t meltdown, both of which are already in progress.

Edited by BradInATX

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15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

When people talk about the left needing "coalition-building" here, it really seems like that's code for "make center-right white suburbanites feel comfortable" which isn't the point. We need to make ourselves uncomfortable for once and look at the needs of the actual coalition the progressive left builds, which is a very broad and diverse nationwide set of working class people.

Perfect encapsulation of where you and other leftists completely fuck this up. 

Labeling Dem suburbanites as "center-right", which is not at all how they would describe themselves. You're not making people uncomfortable with these derogatory labels. You make people just not take you seriously and reject joining your movement.

"We need to make ourselves uncomfortable"...I actually agree with that. Humility and empathy is important.  But the progressive left loves to shame people. That external aggressiveness will only slow the progress of people allowing themselves to feel uncomfortable. It has to come from within. Or if helped by outside forces, not with the angle of "You are a center-right piece of shit."

And if the progressive left is a "very broad and diverse nationwide set of working class people" (JFC how many times have you written that on this board), maybe it's time to actually have these people be in charge of the movement. Because they aren't right now. 

 

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The branding of progressivism as a far left ideology is what needs to end.  

This country was founded by progressives that worked to ensure power in our society was democratized and not centralized by one or the very few.

Ending slavery was a progressive idea at the time. 

Teddy Roosevelt was a self proclaimed progressive but people don’t remember him as a one.  

EVERY positive turn this country has made has been led by progressives looking to ensure more egalitarian power. 

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As a Gen-X former generally Republican voter (I always crossed the aisle for particular candidates -- hell, the first campaign I worked for was Mark White's v. Bill Clements), I'll never go back to the GOP.  Ever.  I honestly can't conceive of a world where I'd even cross the aisle to vote for a particularly "meritorious" GOP candidate in a downballot race.  Because what the GOP has done, and chosen to be, is unforgivable to me.  Saying someone is a good GOP politician is, to me, like saying that "I know he's a member of a racist death cult, but he has some good ideas about transportation."  It's a non-starter.  Being a member of the GOP is evidence of a completely disqualifying character flaw.
My kids will never vote GOP.  Even my son, who is reasonably conservative (relative to the rest of the family) is left-of-center.  And he's politically-minded (as a vocation).  He may be the future of the "moderate" wing of the Democratic party, and I can tell you that he accepts a lot of things we old farts might call "progressive" as being rather mainstream.
Future democrats are going to be much more "progressive" than current ones.  That's being baked in by the political climate of the past 10+ years and the current situation.  Contrast the core message of Obama's speech last night -- we have to look out for each other, and serving the common good has to be part of our calculus -- versus the shouted refrain from the right of "ME, ME, MINE!", and the contrast couldn't be more stark.  A shitload of younger voters are more community and society-minded.  They hold the radical idea that maybe we should give a shit about our fellow man, not just ourselves.  And that foundational belief is very compatible with progressive ideas.  We've gone all-in on the church of the individual, and we are reaping the whirlwind of that right now.  They aren't going to forget.  Ever.



No, it's only a matter of time before the GOP is simply overwhelmed by the utter disdain from millenials and gen z. We're on the verge of 20 +years of millenials being the largest voting bloc. I don't see that going well for the GOP. Conventional wisdom is that voters get more conservative as they age. That's not really true. Voter behavior is remarkably consistent from when they come of age - preferences through life are greatly influenced by the climate when voters enter political life. For millenials and gen z, that's pretty much Bush/Trump vs Obama. No contest.

That's why I think the moderate wing is in much worse shape in the long term than the progressive. They won't be power brokers forever. But in the short term, they're decisively better off thanks to the arrival of former Republicans. How long that crowd sticks around will determine how long the moderates have. I'm skeptical that a big chunk of voters that basically rubber stamped the current GOP agenda through the 90s and 2000s, minus the on the nose racism and bumbling incompetence, aren't going to go back once there's a more palatable figurehead. If that happens, the progressives take over, and MFA, Green New Deal, etc. become Democratic foundations.

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Now that the Fed and the USG openly embrace MMT, progressive ideals are miles closer to becoming reality. Progressive ideals will be repackaged by Dem, Inc. and Never-Trumpers to maximize economic rents for the wealthy. The Karens and Boomers hopefully will continue to fail at spreading their delusions to their kids. The zoomers are largely content to wait for the olds (30+) to die . . . so they can have the nice things their grand and great grandparents had some day.

The zoomers haven't given up on progressivism, they have given up on the olds having the balls to implement programs that would raise all ships. Some are seeing the utility of waiting - since so many of the olds will require so much help and, if the olds won't even vote to help themselves, why help them at this point. Austerity is what the olds worship - so let them die in austere conditions. It is all unnecessary, of course, but that is what the olds crave - so let them be. This can be dangerous - since the sickness of austerity beguiles the easily duped. But if the olds don't want to be made more comfortable, so be it. 

 

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53 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The goal is a political revolution

If the goal is to actually win, don't campaign on a "a political revolution" when Trump is in office. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I reject the notion of the article that the progressive left lost because Bernie and some specific candidates lost.

The goal is a political revolution, which absolutely CAN involve the direct election of progressive left politicians, but that's just the ideal state. Another state of victory is shifting the concept of what is acceptable and what is necessary, and that war never stops.

Joe Biden beat Bernie Sanders in the primary, but when it comes to an actual thought leader in this party, Bernie is still ahead of Joe.

But specific to this article and subsequent commentary...

When people talk about the left needing "coalition-building" here, it really seems like that's code for "make center-right white suburbanites feel comfortable" which isn't the point. We need to make ourselves uncomfortable for once and look at the needs of the actual coalition the progressive left builds, which is a very broad and diverse nationwide set of working class people.

Bernie had the most diverse base of support by far. Bernie had the youth vote locked down by far.

The progressive left isn't doomed because it hurt people's feelings on Twitter, the progressive left is doomed because it will forever be outgunned by capital and those who, wittingly or unwittingly, work on behalf of capital.

So if one's diagnosis is "build a coalition with capital" then there's no point in the progressive left and it doesn't exist anymore. That's what the Democrats did by rejecting progressivism in the wake of Jimmy Carter, rejecting (Jesse) Jacksonian populism and choosing Clintonian corporatism in the late 80s/early 90s. What we were left with in the wake of that was astonishing inequality, a prison state, and perpetual war.

tenor.gif?itemid=9584457

So I think anyone who talks about "building coalitions" needs to explain specifically with whom those coalitions need to be built. Anyone talking about "building bridges" needs to say where those bridges connect.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The level of concern trolling here is remarkable, from the guy who broke the "BERNIE'S TEAM IS TESTING A CANVASSING PHRASE THAT SAYS BERNIE IS BETTER THAN WARREN!" bombshell quoted by a poster who spent a year concern-trolling the left on behalf of a coalition with the racial diversity of the Klan and the educational/economic attainment of the audience of

Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me!

 

Never stop being a bitch. :)

I read this post in the voice of the guy who sits behind me at football games. He always wants to go for it on 4th down no matter the situation. Down 2, easy FG to take the lead? Nope, by god, we should go for the touchdown. If we can’t get it, we don’t deserve to win anyway.

Sometimes you just have to play the hand you are dealt. And we, as a country, were dealt a 7-2 off suit of dotard death cultists. We can still win the hand, but it’s going to take some strategic maneuvering. Go all in before the flop and our bluff gets called every time. 

Ill respond more later about where bridges can be built, and progressives should be a large part of that equation. I want a big Democratic tent that is guided by liberal ideals. The vast majority of non-voters agree with many of these ideals and need to be a part of the long term coalition that we build. But, I don’t want people that aren’t far left on every policy position run out of the tent being vilified as right wing monsters. That does happen now. 

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13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Pre-emptive strike. This thread is going to suck so many balls. It's going to be nothing but drive-bys by Trump supporters and yet another b_t meltdown, both of which are already in progress.

For the record, I didn’t vote for Trump. I do think he’s done some good things, many idiotic things, and doesn’t represent our country well, at all.
 

Back on topic, voters need to get these dinosaurs out of Congress before even moderate progression can take place. Voting a few far left liberals into office have the opposite desired effect. They become the “whipping boy” of both parties, damage perception, and restrict any movement away from traditional policies.

The US is a large beast which takes an ample amount of time to to change directions, because we are a democracy. Those expecting quick change will be extremely unhappy their entire life. See, triggered folks...

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31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This country was founded by progressives that worked to ensure power in our society was democratized and not centralized by one or the very few.

Ending slavery was a progressive idea at the time. 

and they did a bang up job of getting that done as well

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Posted (edited)

Going to give Bernie props here on MESSAGING. He beats a drum and stays on message as well as anyone I've ever seen. He's lost 2 presidential primaries, but permanently drilled M4A, college tuition, and green new deal into the consciousness and subconscious of the left.

M4A talk not going away.

He is the only person on the left that goes toe to toe with Fox News in terms of effective messaging through simplicity and repetition. 

Edited by Grandioso

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A whole lot of people lumping AOC in with the more uncompromising voices on the left have obviously not been paying any attention to AOC lately.

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2 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

See there, you want to label me but are extremely ignorant in doing so. I don’t want to hear political shit from either “side” over there. My views may be too complex for your simple mind.

Lol.

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17 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A whole lot of people lumping AOC in with the more uncompromising voices on the left have obviously not been paying any attention to AOC lately.

Typically, when a person attempts to make a dramatic entry but tumbles down the stairs, they no longer get the attention they desire. First impressions and all.

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3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You make people just not take you seriously and reject joining your movement.

Your inability to differentiate larger political tides from your own personal online grievances is a perfect encapsulation of the reactionary nature of white suburban politics.

Astonishingly petty and small.

 

 

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Your inability to differentiate larger political tides from your own personal online grievances is a perfect encapsulation of the reactionary nature of white suburban politics.

Astonishingly petty and small.

I'm half Iranian and live in the city. 

I can get over online grievances. That's why I voted for Bernie twice, just like you. 

But it's clear the majority have rejected Bernie's "political revolution", and it's time to change strategies. You're the #1 Bernie supporter on this site and every center-left person on here thinks you suck. Maybe read the room and adjust accordingly. 

 

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4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

inability to differentiate larger political tides from your own personal online grievances is a perfect encapsulation of the reactionary nature of white suburban politics.

Astonishingly petty and small.

 

 

See, we don't always disagree.

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

But it's clear the majority have rejected Bernie's "political revolution", and it's time to change strategies.

It's not clear at all. You're acting like he flamed out pathetically and got destroyed. He didn't.

Bernie did extremely well in this campaign in building a movement and advancing his agenda to further make it become the default agenda of a Democratic Party establishment that loathes him and actively works to sabotage him. He wasn't rejected en masse, he lost to a universal name recognized VP who is best friends with a living legend in the party who was ahead in all national polling from 2018 onward. And, unlike 2016, the putative establishment leader was not universally hated.

The frame is absurd and you're advancing it (like Alex Thompson) because you have individual personalities you want to instigate conflict with. The progressive movement is stronger today than it was 10 years ago, and it's not even close.

To repeat an important question:
- With whom, specifically, does the progressive movement need to make coalitions with?

Quote

You're the #1 Bernie supporter on this site and every center-left person on here thinks you suck. Maybe read the room and adjust accordingly. 

Why would that make me want to adjust?

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One thing is for sure, the most important issues to the left like universal government funded health care and income inequality are well on their way to being completely fixed and therefore the movement will slowly fade away. It’s not like nothing has changed and all the problems Bernie has railed against for 50 years are only getting worse. Just pull the lever for Biden and have a $12 latte delivered to your house and pat yourself on the back. We did it! 

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

It's not clear at all. You're acting like he flamed out pathetically and got destroyed. He didn't.

The minute it became a 2 person race, he got destroyed. I don't think Bernie won a single county in Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, or Mississippi. And that's with Biden running a below average campaign and putting basically no resources in any of those states. 

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