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Hank Kingsley

The future of the Progressive Left

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2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

bernie fans - bernie has done a great job pulling the party left and mainstreaming policy ideas that were once aspirational pipe-dreams.

also bernie fans - the new democratic party base is comprised of never-trumper neocons.

Arrested Development Eye Roll GIF

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37 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

I think the biggest omission in the article was the historical context of 2016 v. 2020. 

2016 was the year to "take a flyer" on a wildcard like Bernie or Trump. The economy was humming, Obama was running an honest executive branch, and there weren't any disasters or major scale wars going on. A "Revolution"? Sure, why not?!

After 4 years of Trump I think the dominant attitude among average Joe democrats is to play this shit as safely as possible. How else does Biden win just coasting along on his name and Obama-era nostalgia. 

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

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If they’re getting their asses kicked in Oregon, maybe it’s time for a regroup.


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2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

also bernie fans - the new democratic party base is comprised of never-trumper neocons.

Arrested Development Eye Roll GIF

I understand your view, but Neocons were originally Scoop Jackson Democrats. They are coming home to roost. 

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5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

If they’re getting their asses kicked in Oregon, maybe it’s time for a regroup.

 

You will fit in nicely with David Frum and Bill Kristol. ;)

But seriously, many progressives have become extremely disenchanted with the political process. That’s not a good development for November.

But I am sure the marriage of resistors and never trumpers foretells of a plan outside of making money off of people’s misery. Right? Maybe another impeachment vote?

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Maybe I'm too doom and gloom but it's almost like ideology itself is a luxury we can barely afford right now. 93,000 people have died not as a result of conservatism or liberalism but through incompetence. We basically need bureaucrats and nonpartisan policy nerds to come in and fix shit ASAFP. In the short term we need any reasonable adult to get sworn in, STFU, and handle all the mundane shit that is 98% of government.

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42 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

But seriously, many progressives have become extremely disenchanted with the political process. That’s not a good development for November.

 

I think the reality is that many progressives, of which I consider myself one and am including myself in the following, did not truly understand how politics in this broken ass system work. 
 

You can’t just will shit into existence no matter how correct the ultimate goal may be. I think it was Brisket that made the analogy of America being like a big ship. It doesn’t respond well to huge changes in direction. It takes a lot of nudges. 
 

Especially now when 35% of voters are in a cult.  You can’t just will them out of reality, as much as I would love to. Baby fucking steps back to normalcy. Then work on changing normalcy to truly progressive ideals. 

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think the reality is that many progressives, of which I consider myself one and am including myself in the following, did not truly understand how politics in this broken ass system work. 
 

You can’t just will shit into existence no matter how correct the ultimate goal may be. I think it was Brisket that made the analogy of America being like a big ship. It doesn’t respond well to huge changes in direction. It takes a lot of nudges. 
 

Especially now when 35% of voters are in a cult.  You can’t just will them out of reality, as much as I would love to. Baby fucking steps back to normalcy. Then work on changing normalcy to truly progressive ideals. 

I understand the sentiment and it appears to be what we have settled on as a society that we can't do big things anymore (despite the fact we just bailed out the banks, billionaires and big business for trillions of dollars). 

I posit that narrative of low expectations has been sold to the American public and it is not based in fact. But that is tilting at windmills at this point (and my Sancho Panza lightheartedness about it is missing). Cheers. 

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41 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I understand the sentiment and it appears to be what we have settled on as a society that we can't do big things anymore (despite the fact we just bailed out the banks, billionaires and big business for trillions of dollars). 

I posit that narrative of low expectations has been sold to the American public and it is not based in fact. But that is tilting at windmills at this point (and my Sancho Panza lightheartedness about it is missing). Cheers. 

I still think that we can do big things. We are a patient in the ER. We need a heart transplant and multiple other procedures in order to live a long life. But right now, we need treatment for the gunshot wound to our head. 

Democrats are seeing the present situation as a crisis that must be dealt with before moving on and thinking about other things. Once trump is out of office, liberals will be more willing to entertain progressive ideas.

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7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

 

7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

When you see the number of "Democrats" posting David Frum excrement as we do now, the Democratic Party has indeed moved further right since 2016. 

Eh. It's an alliance for one cycle, for one purpose. Those voters will migrate back to the GOP over the next few cycles a the stain of Trump is whitewashed. The party platform hasn't moved much. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it's nothing more than that.

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

Wealth inequality is a big driver of populism on the left and the right, and it was absolutely a real and significant issue under Obama. He did not do much to address those structural issues. Then you had the tech industry explode and bring insane wealth to a short list of major cities while essentially leaving the rest of the country in the dust. That wasn't Obama's doing, but it mixed the economic divide with the cultural and really laid the groundwork for a 2016 type backlash.

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17 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

I roll my eyes at the love these Republicans get for talking shit about Trump and their willingness to support a Dem candidate this cycle. But leftists would be doing the same damn thing if there were lots of Never Trumper voices that were pro-Bernie. "See, Bernie can reach across all aisles! He's electable!"

Former centrist/establishment/neolib Peter Daou took the Bernie pill and he's become a favorite of the left.

It's basically a political Twitter grift and most people fall for it. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Former centrist/establishment/neolib Peter Daou took the Bernie pill and he's become a favorite of the left.

 

Lol no he’s not. 
 

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's basically a political Twitter grift and most people fall for it. 

Correct. 

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Neo-cons like Rubin/Chait/Frum aligning with centrists is boring because those are their ideological allies in most senses. And it's definitely worth pointing out because it shows that a lot of natural center/center-rights (like you find here) will go straight back to their roots given the slightest prompting (i.e., the threat of people to their left getting uppity/gaining power).

Neo-cons like Rubin/Chait/Frum aligning with the progressive left actually WOULD be interesting because they would be aligning with their natural enemies.

There are reasons you see one happening constantly and the other almost never; it's not a random coin flip.

 

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And it's definitely worth pointing out because it shows that a lot of natural center/center-rights (like you find here) will go straight back to their roots given the slightest prompting (i.e., the threat of people to their left getting uppity/gaining power).


If Democrats do gain control of the federal government in 2020, I fully expect this population to make a significant swing back towards the GOP once the prospects of higher tax rates on high earners, Obama-era regulatory policy, etc. are on the table, let alone debating policies like M4A or the GND.

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