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3 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

"Deep State" and "MSM" are the two biggest tells I'm talking to a moron. 

I’m a moron, which you already knew, because I’ll use the term MSM when talking about broadcast news orgs in the US (CBS, ABC, etc.), as well as cable orgs like Fox News, CNN (especially with their recent changes).  Basically the places my older relatives get the news from, and where the news is packaged up in decidedly short-form soundbites, for people who don’t care to spend much time digging into it.

I will still give CNN some credit for having boots on the ground in a lot of places.

I’ve got an Apple News subscription, and it’s great to have a lot of access to a helluva lot of periodicals, and when configured right, you can stay up on a lot of stuff with minimal effort.  It’s kind of what I hoped magazines and other long-form periodicals would become, something easily accessed and searched from one app (I subbed to the predecessor, Texture, that Apple bought and folded in).

These days, when I want local news, I obviously hit the local channel websites or newspaper sites, and a few social media accounts (local reporters), and at the state level, I’ll hit up a few select news orgs (Texas Tribune, Dallas Morning News, etc.) as well as a few aggregators on social media.  At the national level, I’ll hit up some news aggregators, Reuters, AP, a few newspapers that have a national reach, occasionally CNN.com (theses days I can’t fucking stand CNN the channel).  International, Reuters, BBC, a few others.  Oh, and I’ll still take a look at Drudge occasionally, just as I will look at FoxNews.com and a few others just to see what they are pushing as the top news (good to know what the relatives maybe yammering about).

Ukraine is making me rethink and use social media a lot more (I came late to Twitter, etc.).  I’ve used RSS feeds for 15+ years, have played with Google News (but always ended up with shit), but if you are following certain Twitter, Reddit, etc., accounts for Ukraine coverage, you’ll find that they are way outpacing the MSM, and your are getting a much better picture.  Also, British orgs like the BBC, Sky News, Telegraph, etc, (and a few other European orgs) are doing amazing coverage with lots of good interviews, while Tucker interviews Russian shills, and too many American orgs are glossing over things  

Shir, I have relatives who still think Russia is pushing Ukraine around, but at least the MSM like ABC, CBS,and NBC are starting to cover Ukraine’s gains 

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7 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Hey guys, I new here and I give you total normal take while using q-adjacent buzzwords. am totally american patriot. not russian bot.

 

Not sure who you're referencing, but I've been on Shaggy since the beginning. And again, "Deep State" is not a new term, it's just been co-opted by the populist morons of both sides. The kind of morons who get triggered by words and can't intellectually absorb information in their presence. I will keep using "Deep State" whenever I wish, much like I say "Howdy!" because Texans said "Howdy!" before it was co-opted by Aggies. I'm taking it back damnit!

You may now continue the usual navel-gazing and circle-jerking associated with echo chamber political forums.

 

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4 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Technically the Navel in "Navel-gazing" is your Navel. I laughed though

You can get a good gaze at Canecutter's nave by sticking your head up its ass, but wouldn't you rather take the star's word for it?  

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I don't think I had anything to do with their exchange, just chimed in at the end when they were done.  And "everything" is exaggerative/hyperbolic.  Myself and a handful of posters had a few laughs yesterday.  Sorry for not partying.  

But in all seriousness-does RD really have a naval piercing?  I know he's an "artist"  /nojudgement  

Now then, apparently the "dignity" of Russia's military has been exposed.  Overnight from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/europe/russia-kharkiv-withdrawal-analysis-npw-intl/index.html

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17 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

This is probably the most dangerous point in the war. Putin isn’t rational on his best days, and now that he’s losing Russian support he may drop a nuke just to stop the bleeding. Either that or he may seriously damage the nuke plant to make it unusable and cause a release of radiation. 

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Man, season 2 of 'Chernobyl' is going to be a real-time documentary (and lit as fuck---in a bad way)?

At the outset of this invasion, I worried about a nuclear event.  Then things just got awfully conventional, almost curiously so.  And thought it'd be tit-for-tat for a couple years.  But these past two weeks has pushed him into a corner, and he ain't a guy that plays well in corners.  It'll actually be a positive sign when he starts executing/imprisoning military leadership, means he's still going along with his original vision.  It's when he doesn't punish anyone we need to worry, because he wants them "to see what I'm capable of."  18 October he goes bananas.  

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On 9/13/2022 at 7:27 AM, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Condescension acknowledged. I know it's used by the populists, but I just meant it as the gears of the machine. "Deep" because it's less followed than the surface politicians. The term existed far before it was co-opted by populists on both sides, any moron knows that. No nefarious conspiracy. No Q.

Yeah yeah and the swastika is just a tibetan good luck charm, ok buddy

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13 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Not sure who you're referencing, but I've been on Shaggy since the beginning. And again, "Deep State" is not a new term, it's just been co-opted by the populist morons of both sides. The kind of morons who get triggered by words and can't intellectually absorb information in their presence. I will keep using "Deep State" whenever I wish, much like I say "Howdy!" because Texans said "Howdy!" before it was co-opted by Aggies. I'm taking it back damnit!

You may now continue the usual navel-gazing and circle-jerking associated with echo chamber political forums.

 

Do you use "deep state" instead of bureaucracy?

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31 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yeah yeah and the swastika is just a tibetan good luck charm, ok buddy

 

Umm, it was? Good job referencing Nazis for no reason. Trenchant, timely, and topical.

 

26 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Do you use "deep state" instead of bureaucracy?

 

Either depending on topic. Not often.

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1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

This is probably the most dangerous point in the war. Putin isn’t rational on his best days, and now that he’s losing Russian support he may drop a nuke just to stop the bleeding. Either that or he may seriously damage the nuke plant to make it unusable and cause a release of radiation. 

He will have the nuke plant damaged long before he drops a nuke.  The fact that his propagandists were on TV basically saying “it’d be a shame if something happened to your nice nuclear plant” spoke volumes about their mindset.

He could have ordered troops to stay away, but instead they are shelling in and around it and are constantly doing shit that puts it in danger, and all of that is by design.

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2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

This is probably the most dangerous point in the war. Putin isn’t rational on his best days, and now that he’s losing Russian support he may drop a nuke just to stop the bleeding. Either that or he may seriously damage the nuke plant to make it unusable and cause a release of radiation. 

I posted this in the Russia thread but it can probably go here too. The Biden administration released info on Putin spending over $300 Million meddling in the affairs of other nations. We know he’s done it in both ours and Ukraine’s. I imagine the timing of its release could be intended to put a little more pressure on Putin at home. Biden’s done a good job waging the information war against Putin over Ukraine.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-biden-politics-presidential-elections-03d0ae84fb34833b78b1753d0a9602db

I don’t know what would happen in Russia if some general stepped up, did the right thing, and put a bullet through Putin’s brain. A functioning democracy that respects the sovereignty of other nations and accepts that there’s no going back to the days of the Soviet Union might not be in the cards. But this has got to be another thorn in his side. The wind blows from the west to the east and I’d like to think there’s someone in Russia with the sanity that another nuclear disaster in Ukraine wouldn’t be in their best interest.

 

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5 hours ago, YGIFS said:

But in all seriousness-does RD really have a naval piercing?  I know he's an "artist"  /nojudgement  

I had multiple staples all up and down from my navel where they gutted me like a fish in 2018.

I showed up 4 days after the operation to get them popped out. They were hesitant, but I spoke in a Klingon voice.

It was less about being brave, and more about wanting all that medical shit in the rear-view mirror.

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Oh, it's from surgery?  I had no idea.  I dunno, I just thought it was some weird spring break inside joke I didn't know about.  Hope it's all good on your end, or innie-end, as it were.  Sorry for the anus jokes then.  Just remember, chicks dig scars.  Plus dudes in Oakleys driving lifted F-250's.  Pro tip......

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

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It would be interesting to know how many American consumers of Russian propaganda since 2016 were, back in 2014, cheering the Ukrainian people as they overthrew their Russian puppet dictator Viktor Yanukovych. After Yanukovych fled to Moscow for safety, the protesters toured his palatial estate and discovered just how badly he’d been looting their country. Such grotesque opulence. The palace, the guest houses, the golf course, the zoo, the car collection, the man made lake with a wooden ship, etc.

But they didn’t loot the palace. They didn’t burn it to the ground. They protected it and retrieved evidence of corruption including the secret ledgers that revealed, among other things, that Donald Trump’s future campaign manager Paul Manafort had been on the puppet’s payroll. It doesn’t take much searching to find a wealth of pics and videos of Viktor’s estate. A lot of the interior design is the sort that Donald Trump would jizz over.

162B90E4-1C82-44E9-874D-BC7BDDD1E875.jpeg.265970a611cafaf2409f3ee03aa6c8a5.jpeg

That’s the corruption we’ve been fighting in Ukraine. It’s a process. They don’t turn into a NATO-approved democracy overnight and they’re not there yet. But they’re a lot closer now than they were before and with our help they’ll get there soon.

The people drinking and regurgitating the Russian propaganda about corruption in Ukraine want to take Ukraine back to the Yanukovych era of being a vassal state ruled by a puppet of the Kremlin. They may not know that but that’s Putin’s goal, that’s the message. And Trump was fine with that because he’s Putin’s puppet too and thinks that he should be a dictator getting filthy rich off of his position just like Yanukovych. Just like Putin. He admires the Russian model. He’s not a commoner like the rest of us slobs. He deserves that. He’s special. He’s a man of power.

EDC06DFC-3518-4E34-AADF-A0B013F7BB5D.jpeg.a26d6d63cf992af99769158d600532b2.jpeg

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I may not agree with their politics (well I used to, but not these days), but I’d be really curious to hear Tom Clancy’s and John McCain’s thoughts about Ukraine if they were still alive.  I remember McCain laying into Rand Paul hard after the invasion of Georgia and then Ukraine in 2014, to the point he was saying on the Senate floor that Paul was working for Putin. 

 

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IF the rumors are true about the assassination attempt, and the military (including navy apparently) "regrouping", when does this become a General unifying their military away from Putin for a coup? If Putin puts the blame on the some generals instead of himself, they have nothing to lose. The army must be broken by now and ready for this war to stop. They have to like their chances with an attempted coup rather than jumping back into Ukraine. 

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35 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I may not agree with their politics (well I used to, but not these days), but I’d be really curious to hear Tom Clancy’s and John McCain’s thoughts about Ukraine if they were still alive.  I remember McCain laying into Rand Paul hard after the invasion of Georgia and then Ukraine in 2014, to the point he was saying on the Senate floor that Paul was working for Putin. 

I think McCain was probably right.

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42 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I may not agree with their politics (well I used to, but not these days), but I’d be really curious to hear Tom Clancy’s and John McCain’s thoughts about Ukraine if they were still alive.  I remember McCain laying into Rand Paul hard after the invasion of Georgia and then Ukraine in 2014, to the point he was saying on the Senate floor that Paul was working for Putin. 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

IF the rumors are true about the assassination attempt, and the military (including navy apparently) "regrouping", when does this become a General unifying their military away from Putin for a coup? If Putin puts the blame on the some generals instead of himself, they have nothing to lose. The army must be broken by now and ready for this war to stop. They have to like their chances with an attempted coup rather than jumping back into Ukraine. 

Russian state TV (Putin’s mouthpiece) is already putting the blame on military leaders.

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Or Romney, who correctly called out and warned us, about the Russians/Putin in 12. Everyone called him a coldwar dinosaur who refused to move on and proclaim the "reset". There was plenty of myopia going around that was quick to dismiss the obvious warning signs out of ignorant, idealist, hope.

 

 

Ignorant children

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8 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Or Romney, who correctly called out and warned us, about the Russians/Putin in 12. Everyone called him a coldwar dinosaur who refused to move on and proclaim the "reset". There was plenty of myopia going around that was quick to dismiss the obvious warning signs out of ignorant, idealist, hope.

 

 

Ignorant children

I think a majority of us chuckled at that as we were still viewing the world thru red white and blue glasses. Romney was spot on with this single issue. 

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8 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It would be interesting to know how many American consumers of Russian propaganda since 2016 were, back in 2014, cheering the Ukrainian people as they overthrew their Russian puppet dictator Viktor Yanukovych. After Yanukovych fled to Moscow for safety, the protesters toured his palatial estate and discovered just how badly he’d been looting their country. Such grotesque opulence. The palace, the guest houses, the golf course, the zoo, the car collection, the man made lake with a wooden ship, etc.

But they didn’t loot the palace. They didn’t burn it to the ground. They protected it and retrieved evidence of corruption including the secret ledgers that revealed, among other things, that Donald Trump’s future campaign manager Paul Manafort had been on the puppet’s payroll. It doesn’t take much searching to find a wealth of pics and videos of Viktor’s estate. A lot of the interior design is the sort that Donald Trump would jizz over.

******

That’s the corruption we’ve been fighting in Ukraine. It’s a process. They don’t turn into a NATO-approved democracy overnight and they’re not there yet. But they’re a lot closer now than they were before and with our help they’ll get there soon.

The people drinking and regurgitating the Russian propaganda about corruption in Ukraine want to take Ukraine back to the Yanukovych era of being a vassal state ruled by a puppet of the Kremlin. They may not know that but that’s Putin’s goal, that’s the message. And Trump was fine with that because he’s Putin’s puppet too and thinks that he should be a dictator getting filthy rich off of his position just like Yanukovych. Just like Putin. He admires the Russian model. He’s not a commoner like the rest of us slobs. He deserves that. He’s special. He’s a man of power.

 

53 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Or Romney, who correctly called out and warned us, about the Russians/Putin in 12. Everyone called him a coldwar dinosaur who refused to move on and proclaim the "reset". There was plenty of myopia going around that was quick to dismiss the obvious warning signs out of ignorant, idealist, hope.

 

Ignorant children

Deleted the videos to save server space.

First, I'll address @WhatTheBuck. I can't recall if you were a member of the site when the 2014 "What's Going On in (the) Ukraine?" thread got started, but, yes, there were posters from this very site who were talking up how badass Putin was and were apologists for Yanukovych. Some of them at the time were even spreading word that Ukrainians were basically the same as Russians. There's one poster, one with a phd who is treated as an all-knowing weather god on this site, who I distinctly recall making that argument.

Second, @MagicSoccerSpray, I think pretty much everyone would agree that Obama was wrong on his public assessment of Russia as a threat in 2012. Personally, I definitely thought so, given that I have a very good personal friend who works for the State Department and was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow in the 2009-2010 timeframe. She told me how she was often followed by FSB types and warned that things weren't so copacetic with Russia at the time. But, guess what, she still voted for Obama in 2012, because that one particular issue didn't override her concerns over a multiplicity of other issues. So, no, not "Everyone called him a coldwar dinosaur."

In fact, I'm fairly sure that most everyone understood the threat that Putin's Kremlin posed by the 2016 election, except for one soon-to-be president along with his slavish supporters -- many of whom still, to this day, apparently deny. Those are your "Ignorant children."

And, going back to that debate quote responding to the question about "our number one adversary," it sure seems to me that most of the Right Wing is still more concerned over Jyna than Russia today.

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3 hours ago, bolverk said:

First, I'll address @WhatTheBuck. I can't recall if you were a member of the site when the 2014 "What's Going On in (the) Ukraine?" thread got started, but, yes, there were posters from this very site who were talking up how badass Putin was and were apologists for Yanukovych. Some of them at the time were even spreading word that Ukrainians were basically the same as Russians. There's one poster, one with a phd who is treated as an all-knowing weather god on this site, who I distinctly recall making that argument.

I joined in 2013 and I recall that thread but I remember it being mostly in favor of the Ukrainian protesters. I hadn’t really formed an opinion yet about many individual posters. I do recall the weather guy, though. I’m not qualified to judge when it comes to the weather. But I found that he was wrong about literally every other subject he expressed an opinion about.

Still, I think it would be interesting if we could revisit that thread and see who, if anyone, cheered for Ukraine at the time and then later supported the Putin/Trump/GOP Axis. 

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4 hours ago, bolverk said:

But, guess what, she still voted for Obama in 2012, because that one particular issue didn't override her concerns over a multiplicity of other issues.

 

The presidency is a foreign policy position at it's core, it's where the majority of the positions power resides. The danger Russia posed to the West was blatantly obvious from 08 forward when it invaded Georgia. If she worked in foreign policy/diplomacy in Russia, and was harassed by the Russian security services, and still voted for Obama because of domestic concerns, she was at least naive, if not ignorant. Obama was such a foreign policy disaster, he made Jimmy Carter look like Ghengis Khan. It's not like his domestic policy was much better. His singular domestic policy "achievement" was undone within one election cycle. McCain and Romney were always dead right.

 

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

In fact, I'm fairly sure that most everyone understood the threat that Putin's Kremlin posed by the 2016 election, except for one soon-to-be president along with his slavish supporters -- many of whom still, to this day, apparently deny. Those are your "Ignorant children."

 

I disagree, the ignorant children were the ones touting "reset buttons" and "fresh starts" like they were in a courtroom or a classroom, when they were actually on the playground. They were naive children, and hence were child's play for Putin.

 

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

And, going back to that debate quote responding to the question about "our number one adversary," it sure seems to me that most of the Right Wing is still more concerned over Jyna than Russia today.

 

If you think I'm carrying water for Trump, or populists (from any side), you could not be more wrong. I do appreciate the reply sans the mouth breathing vitriol.

 

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13 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

He was spot-on about more than that geopolitically. He would have done well.

 

He was a corporate shill who loves Citizen's United (probably the most destructive legislation to our Democracy in the past 50 years). "Have done well" is extremely subjective, especially if they somehow expanded on the philosophy of corporations having equal rights to individuals. 

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11 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

He was a corporate shill who loves Citizen's United (probably the most destructive legislation to our Democracy in the past 50 years). "Have done well" is extremely subjective, especially if they somehow expanded on the philosophy of corporations having equal rights to individuals. 

 

That's domestic, I was speaking geopolitically. No one is perfect, but he would have been worlds better than what we got.

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7 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

That's domestic, I was speaking geopolitically. No one is perfect, but he would have been worlds better than what we got.

I don't know, it seems like it's all working out in the end. Russia is on the verge of imploding, China is now on an island with no real allies and serious domestic issues, and our alliances are stronger than they have been in a long time. Still lots at play but so far we are on the right track. 

*additionally, Iran is far more easy to handle now that their big bro Russia has been hobbled. North Korea is what it is and will be regardless of what we do. 

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Xi throwing Putin a lifeline seems less-than-ideal:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/xi-to-putin-team-up

Quote

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping met in Uzbekistan where they reaffirmed their commitment to strengthening their relationship and putting their mark on the “global scale.”

The two authoritarian leaders met on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization on Thursday, in Xi’s first trip outside his country since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

"In the face of the colossal changes of our time on a global scale, unprecedented in recent history, we are ready to team up with our Russian colleagues to set an example of a responsible world power and to play a leading role in putting a rapidly changing world on the track of sustainable and positive development," Xi told Putin, according to TASS, Russian state media.

The Chinese leader addressed Putin as his “dear and long-time friend,” and noted that, "under conditions of a global pandemic we continue to maintain effective strategic contacts, particularly through phone calls.”

They “were to discuss the situation in Ukraine,” the readout said, though it did not provide any additional details on the subject.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry's readout did not specifically mention Ukraine, though it focused heavily on their partnership.

"President Putin noted that the world is undergoing multiple changes, yet the only thing that remains unchanged is the friendship and mutual trust between Russia and China," it reads in part. "The Russia-China comprehensive strategic partnership of coordination is as stable as mountains. Both Russia and China stand for a more equitable and reasonable international order, setting a fine example in international relations."

Their meeting comes as Ukraine has launched a successful counteroperation in the eastern part of Ukraine that has resulted in the withdrawal of Russian troops from much of the Kharkiv region. The Ukrainians, since the beginning of this offensive this month, have recaptured more land from Russian forces, more than 1,800 square miles, than the Russians had conquered since the beginning of April, according to the Institute for the Study of War.

Earlier this month, the two countries were among a group involved in the Vostok 2022 military exercise that involved more than 50,000 troops and over 5,000 weapons, according to the Associated Press.

"In regards to China and Russia, certainly as evidenced by Russia's most recent exercises and other activities, there is a relationship between China and Russia," Pentagon spokesman Gen. Pat Ryder told reporters last week, though he couldn't say whether Russia had sought to purchase military equipment from China the way it has from Iran and North Korea.

"In terms of what Russia may be asking of China or not, I don't have any information to provide from the podium on that, other than to say that in an era of strategic competition, we'll continue to keep a very close eye on Russia and China and the threats that they pose to international stability and the international rules and norms that have largely kept the world safe for the last 70-plus years, since World War II," he added.

CLICK HERE TO READ MORE FROM THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER

China and Russia released a communique prior to the war that outlined a wide range of plans for economic and diplomatic cooperation. In the time since the war began, the Chinese government has claimed to promote "peace" between Russia and Ukraine, but it has also been amplifying Russian disinformation claims of justification for the invasion.

The two leaders had most recently met in person when Putin went to China for the opening ceremony of the 2020 Winter Olympics.

 

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On 9/14/2022 at 12:49 AM, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Not sure who you're referencing, but I've been on Shaggy since the beginning. And again, "Deep State" is not a new term, it's just been co-opted by the populist morons of both sides. The kind of morons who get triggered by words and can't intellectually absorb information in their presence. I will keep using "Deep State" whenever I wish, much like I say "Howdy!" because Texans said "Howdy!" before it was co-opted by Aggies. I'm taking it back damnit!

You may now continue the usual navel-gazing and circle-jerking associated with echo chamber political forums.

 

It hasn’t really been co-opted by “both sides” equally. And the reason it has been co-opted by the right was an attempt to grab its original meaning and tar political opponents and indeed the government bureaucracy they sometimes control. 
 

And that’s the problem with using it. “Deep States” do and have existed.  They do consist of unelected figures (usually within power ministries and the security apparatus) who don’t quite CONTROL what democratically elected leaders do, but do seriously constrain them and at times actively intervene to steer or block various policies at home and abroad.  The example par excellence is Pakistan and the military and ISI leadership, or Turkey before Erdogan built alternate structures and co-opted or defeated the former “Deep State.”

And that’s why I raise my eyebrows at anyone who uses the term to refer to the U.S. security and foreign policy bureaucracy, which does not behave in remotely the same way. 

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42 minutes ago, C-Man said:

They kind of have to for any possibility of them surviving their leadership asperations. One of those "sums greater than their parts" type deal. It'll ultimately fail (unless something major shifts at play), but if Xi alienates Russia, all the they can do is play ball with the rest of the world and that isn't in their self-interest. 

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