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2022-23 Houston Rockets Thread - One More Season of Suckage


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On 1/8/2023 at 7:57 AM, Macklemore said:

John & Lance were talking about the lack of development earlier this week. Granato is pretty plugged in and doesn’t think Silas will make it past February 1st. Hope to God that is true.

 

The problem is this coaching staff top to bottom is the worst in the NBA. Technically you could give the interim job to Lucas, Hollins, or Hornacek but I don't expect any further development. This is just a complete fucking disaster. Tate, Gordon, Mathews, and Porter should all be traded or cut.

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50 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The problem is this coaching staff top to bottom is the worst in the NBA. Technically you could give the interim job to Lucas, Hollins, or Hornacek but I don't expect any further development. This is just a complete fucking disaster. Tate, Gordon, Mathews, and Porter should all be traded or cut.

I would like to see how Abdelfattah would do. He won coach of the year in the G League last year. I don’t want us to have another Nick Nurse situation where we have a good coach within our team’s control leave and have success elsewhere.

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On 12/26/2022 at 5:23 PM, Horns RD Standard said:

Biggest weakness imo is ball security/TO’s. PG play effects that directly. He’s the best PG option at the price point some others are going to be after as well...as long as he accepts and plays the same role he’s currently in. Would take ball out of KPJ’s hands altogether and allow Jalen to work off the ball exclusively. And I understand its about developing young talent, but tough for that talent to really progress when arguably your offense’s best passer is a 2nd year post player, sengun!
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Harden would probably be my #1 choice. If not him I’d try to do a Draymond and M. Turner and hope that those two guy, whoever you get from the lotto, Green, Smith and the other 3 guys you choose to keep around, coupled with a new and competent staff, is enough to make you a playoff team in 24 and then becomes as good as World championship type (if new lotto pick, Smith and a green hit) to perennial playoff team if those guys don’t maximize their development. 
Obviously the higher you pick this summer the greater chance you end up with championship ceiling. 

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I have no idea why y’all want to fire this staff. Someone competent could have this team win 27 games and pick 7th if they get them playing well while everyone else is trying to tank. They are doing gods work being incompetent right now. Let them. We 

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10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I have no idea why y’all want to fire this staff. Someone competent could have this team win 27 games and pick 7th if they get them playing well while everyone else is trying to tank. They are doing gods work being incompetent right now. Let them. We 

It's like no one remembers the "Lastros" years. You dont fire the tank commander when they are tanking like they should. The Texans literally did that with Lovie and we saw how that turned out. 

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Sengun is likely the best player on the Rockets. Smith and Sengun are going to be a force to deal with in the future as this video shows. If the French version of Holmgren can offensively play with those 2 at the wing, you are cooking with gas, otherwise I'd rather take the Miller kid from Bama.

I hope they take the ball out of Porter's hands and give it to Sengun over the 2nd half of the season. Frankly, they should just let Porter walk after the season.

I saw a pretty decent trade idea earlier this week. Gordon and MIL's 1st for Lonzo Ball. He's a great fit for the Rockets as a young veteran with excellent 3 and D capabilities with secondary playmaking abilities.

 

 

Edited by HtownHorn
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On 1/16/2023 at 2:05 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

I have no idea why y’all want to fire this staff. Someone competent could have this team win 27 games and pick 7th if they get them playing well while everyone else is trying to tank. They are doing gods work being incompetent right now. Let them. We 

 

On 1/17/2023 at 12:34 AM, Intercourse With Gray said:

It's like no one remembers the "Lastros" years. You dont fire the tank commander when they are tanking like they should. The Texans literally did that with Lovie and we saw how that turned out. 

I don't think baseball is a great comparison to basketball in terms of impact of tanking. Those Lastros years were of course great at generating players that would be an impact in several years while playing in the minors. Altuve is (I think?) the only real contributor to even the 2017 teams that was on the real bad teams. His whole being is built on hustle, effort, and competitiveness so there was minimal impact of a losing culture on him.

With basketball you have the players on a shitty team that you also expect to contribute to a winning team, at least a select few. I do think there is a real risk of Green, Smith, other young guys being damaged by shitty culture / coaching. It can be hard to flip a mental switch when the org says "Ok, now start playing hard" when you've been allowed to coast for years.

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There are some posters that think it's wise to take the Sacramento Kings approach to rebuilding. You can lose and still be building a good culture. This is not what the Rockets are doing, the culture is rotten which matches the play on the court. The rebuild is just being set back 2-3 years because of the way the coaching staff is "developing" the players.

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28 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

 

I don't think baseball is a great comparison to basketball in terms of impact of tanking. Those Lastros years were of course great at generating players that would be an impact in several years while playing in the minors. Altuve is (I think?) the only real contributor to even the 2017 teams that was on the real bad teams. His whole being is built on hustle, effort, and competitiveness so there was minimal impact of a losing culture on him.

With basketball you have the players on a shitty team that you also expect to contribute to a winning team, at least a select few. I do think there is a real risk of Green, Smith, other young guys being damaged by shitty culture / coaching. It can be hard to flip a mental switch when the org says "Ok, now start playing hard" when you've been allowed to coast for years.

I think that’s what you do in FA bringing in veterans to help with the culture this off season.  That and a new coaching staff should be enough to flush 2 bad years for Green and Sengun and 1 bad year for this seasons rookies.  That isn’t a ton.  To the extent there is a tension there (and I agree there is) I’d rather maximize draft picks in an insane year for 1 and 2 than start building culture and pick 8th. 

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I think that’s what you do in FA bringing in veterans to help with the culture this off season.  That and a new coaching staff should be enough to flush 2 bad years for Green and Sengun and 1 bad year for this seasons rookies.  That isn’t a ton.  To the extent there is a tension there (and I agree there is) I’d rather maximize draft picks in an insane year for 1 and 2 than start building culture and pick 8th. 

What worthwhile veterans want to join this shitshow? Look at what happened to Gordon under the Silas regime. He went from being a good soldier to openly voicing his displeasure. Not a chance in hell any veteran would seriously consider the Rockets until and unless Silas is shitcanned. 

Maximizing draft picks is not going to get the Rockets anywhere with this coaching staff. More importantly, the Rockets are having the issue of having young players with potential not getting enough minutes. See Kenyon Martin, Jr. (who should be a regular starter) and TyTy Washington (should be getting backup PG minutes and be the next guy off the bench after Tari Eason). There is only one basketball to go around.

Send Silas packing and let Lionel Hollins take over so he can instill some discipline and a commitment to defense in these kids.

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31 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

What worthwhile veterans want to join this shitshow? Look at what happened to Gordon under the Silas regime. He went from being a good soldier to openly voicing his displeasure. Not a chance in hell any veteran would seriously consider the Rockets until and unless Silas is shitcanned. 

Maximizing draft picks is not going to get the Rockets anywhere with this coaching staff. More importantly, the Rockets are having the issue of having young players with potential not getting enough minutes. See Kenyon Martin, Jr. (who should be a regular starter) and TyTy Washington (should be getting backup PG minutes and be the next guy off the bench after Tari Eason). There is only one basketball to go around.

Send Silas packing and let Lionel Hollins take over so he can instill some discipline and a commitment to defense in these kids.

Silas is gone at the end of this season I don’t think there is any doubt about that at all. 
In between let’s lose all the games we can (or at least enough to finish with the worst record in the league). 

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31 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Silas is gone at the end of this season I don’t think there is any doubt about that at all. 
In between let’s lose all the games we can (or at least enough to finish with the worst record in the league). 

We finished with the worst record for 2 years and have picked 2nd and 3rd. This is fucking stupid and does nothing.

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2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

We finished with the worst record for 2 years and have picked 2nd and 3rd. This is fucking stupid and does nothing.

Beats picking 7th. You can’t say it does nothing. Those guys are in their teens. Might just need more time. 

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46 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Beats picking 7th. You can’t say it does nothing. Those guys are in their teens. Might just need more time. 

No, you said we should lose every game to ensure the worst record. That does fucking nothing.

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6 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

What worthwhile veterans want to join this shitshow?

A veteran offered a max contract? Especially if they replace Silas with a respected coach and extra especially if they add Wamby or Scoot and dump KPJ. Someone else needs to handle the ball. It’s no surprise that the Rockets are statistically better when KPJ isn’t on the floor.
 

This team could jump up pretty quick as (or if) Green learns to be a professional and Smith keeps adjusting to the NBA. Sengun probably is the best asset even if non-Rocket fans see Green as the only potential franchise player. Some grizzled veterans filling out the ‘23-24 roster are sorely needed, almost as much as a new coach to light a fire under their asses. 

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34 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

A veteran offered a max contract? Especially if they replace Silas with a respected coach and extra especially if they add Wamby or Scoot and dump KPJ. Someone else needs to handle the ball. It’s no surprise that the Rockets are statistically better when KPJ isn’t on the floor.
 

This team could jump up pretty quick as (or if) Green learns to be a professional and Smith keeps adjusting to the NBA. Sengun probably is the best asset even if non-Rocket fans see Green as the only potential franchise player. Some grizzled veterans filling out the ‘23-24 roster are sorely needed, almost as much as a new coach to light a fire under their asses. 

They don't need a true PG, the offense needs to be facilitated by Sengun. They need 3 and D wings. Smith and Eason are a good start. If Martin would play defense, he'd be another.

I would like to see Washington get to run the offense when Sengun is off the court.

However, what respected coach is going to come into this organization when the GM is involved in coaching decisions.

32 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

 It guarantees no worse than a top 5 pick. It’s not much but It’s not fucking nothing. 

That only means something if you have a top 5 protection. Plenty of excellent players are found outside the top 5 every year.

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2 hours ago, SilasCoade said:

When did Sengun fanboying become a thing? I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of Rockets games this year b/c they're not fun to watch, but what's up with anointing Sengun the savior?

Since it became obvious, he was the best player on the team.

Has the best PER, WS, WS/48, VORP, BPM, ORtg, and 2nd best DRtg.

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14 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

No, you said we should lose every game to ensure the worst record. That does fucking nothing.

Sure it does. Gives you (tied for 3rd) best chance of winning the lotto and maximizes your pick as highest possible if you don’t win that lotto. All of that is better than winning 27 games or something like that. Lose them all. Get a new coach in the off-season. Pick well in the draft. Spend your 60M+ in FA money to bring in high character and talented guys.  Go forth and make the playoffs in 2024 and hope the guys you drafted are good enough that you are talking title contention in 26. That probably doesn’t happen unless you have the Frenchmen or Scoot on your team so you should absolutely maximize your chance at making that happen. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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I think what Htownhorn is saying is that Silas  is hampering the development of the youngsters and fixing that is more important than losing games to improve our draft position, which he thinks is worthless. How do I know that? Because he continuously repeats those thoughts on a seemingly endless loop. 

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3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sure it does. Gives you (tied for 3rd) best chance of winning the lotto and maximizes your pick as highest possible if you don’t win that lotto. All of that is better than winning 27 games or something like that. Lose them all. Get a new coach in the off-season. Pick well in the draft. Spend your 60M+ in FA money to bring in high character and talented guys.  Go forth and make the playoffs in 2024 and hope the guys you drafted are good enough that you are talking title contention in 26. That probably doesn’t happen unless you have the Frenchmen or Scoot on your team so you should absolutely maximize your chance at making that happen. 

Seems simple...just do all that.

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1 minute ago, Tylerocks said:

Seems simple...just do all that.

I mean honestly it is pretty easy to make the playoffs in the NBA.  1st step is basically to determine that you actually want to make the playoffs, as 20 out of 30 teams make it and there always seem to be 4-6 teams that are actively trying to lose.  So, really you just need to be better than half a dozen teams league wide that are trying to win. 

As far as the get a new coach in the off-season goes there are guys with a track record that you know can be pretty decent at least, maybe to very good.  They are always out there if you are willing to pay.  I'm talking about guys like Jeff Van Gundy, Mark Jackson, Avery Johnson, Mike D'Antoni, Doc Rivers if he gets fired, the Celtics guy from last year that got fired for having an affair etc.  You can pick at warts in all those guys but they all have a track record in the league and they were all above 500. It won't be the risk of a clown show that you have with Silas.  That automatically makes you better.  

The higher you pick in the draft the easier it is to not massively fuck it up.  Lets just assume if the Rockets keep this pace that they will get someone in the draft that is a HOF franchise caliber player on the upside, or Solid role player on the downside.  For the last 20 years the 5th pick has turned into an all star 60% of the time, a solid starter 15%, a role player 10% of the time and a bust 15% of the time.  You are just looking to avoid that last category:

 

Pick
#
Gms
Min
Pts
Reb
Ast
Rtg
Star
Solid
RoleP
DeepB
Bust
DNP
1 20 555 32.9 16.6 7.8 2.7 27.0 70% 25% 5%      
2 20 583 29.6 12.9 5.9 2.8 21.6 60% 25% 15%      
3 20 535 31.9 15.2 5.1 3.5 23.8 85% 10% 5%      
4 20 585 30.5 13.7 5.5 3.1 22.2 60% 30% 10%      
5 20 552 28.7 13.4 4.9 2.7 21.1 60% 15% 10% 15%

 

60M in available cap space.  None of the FA are likely great.   My guess is that for 60M you could get something like a Draymond and Myles Turner.  Maybe you go the other way and start shopping from the bottom up and you sign a Seth Curry, Jae Crowder, Kyle Kuzma and Brook Lopez or something like that.  60M should get you 4 rotation pieces or 2 above average to fringe all star types, or something in between.  

As far as the last part- yeah- it's a hope/development game.  What I was suggesting doesn't get you better than play in type team unless 2 of Green, 2023 pick, Smith and Sengun become really really good players to super stars.  I don't see a superstar on the roster for the Rockets. I don't see one available in FA.  You just flat out need to have at least a top 5 player in the NBA to win a title, so your best bet is picking 1st in 2023.  The last team without a top 5 type player to win it all was probably the 2014 Spurs with Duncan slipping off his game from his apex and Leonard not getting there yet.  Before that 2006 Dwayne Wade for Miami I wouldn't have had as a top 5 player and 2004 Detroit obviously didn't have one.  So- that's 3 of the last 22 teams to win without that kind of guy and you can go back another 10 years beyond that with all top 5 guys necessary to win a title.  So yeah- 3 of the last 32 for sure, and you could argue Wade in 2006 was a top 5 guy.  So, Hope it's Wemby and hope he doesn't break.  But, you have enough talent right now, enough cap space and enough will to compete (we lose our pick in 24 so no use tanking) that there is no reason the Rockets shouldn't be in the playoffs next year.  

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I for one want a top 2 pick again, I’m sure we will can Silas but hiring the right guy isn’t easy as most of the coaches in the league are all retreads and have not won at multiple stops. If we get Wemby I think that will attract some FA and a good coach who sees the young talent. 

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2 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I for one want a top 2 pick again, I’m sure we will can Silas but hiring the right guy isn’t easy as most of the coaches in the league are all retreads and have not won at multiple stops. If we get Wemby I think that will attract some FA and a good coach who sees the young talent. 

No vet FAs give 2 shits about some rookie. They want to play for rings, not rookies.

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8 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

No vet FAs give 2 shits about some rookie. They want to play for rings, not rookies.

So who do you think is a good replacement coach. Seems they have all failed at other places. I know anyone is better than Silas but we need someone that is going to build a championship team.

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6 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

So who do you think is a good replacement coach. Seems they have all failed at other places. I know anyone is better than Silas but we need someone that is going to build a championship team.

Quinn Snyder would be a great coach for this team. Love to see him offered.

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37 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Quinn Snyder would be a great coach for this team. Love to see him offered.

My #1 candidate, but Stone would likely have to be fired. I don't see a legit coach letting Stone be a "coach" too.

Edited by HtownHorn
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13 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Holy shit, Garrison Matthews is really bad at basketball. Total black hole and is such an abysmal defensive player. Why is he getting any time? Silas's rotations are so fucking awful.

I watched the 4th quarter last night.  That is the longest I've watched a game this season (and last for that matter)

This really stood out to me as well.

Why is he getting minutes over any of the other young guards?

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Garrison Matthews needs to be cut after this game. He almost single-handedly caused us to lose this game with his horrible 2nd half after we played one of our best 1st halves of the season. Sick of Silas and his stupidity. Worst coach by far in the NBA.

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You chucklefucks keep losing the thread. 
Garrison Mathews is a GD hero. 
y’all keep talking about getting rid of Silas and even though he’s only 1-19 in his last 20 we only have a 1 game lead on last place. This shit could all get ruined by winning 4 out 5 during some stretch. Silas and Mathews are hero’s 

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14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You chucklefucks keep losing the thread. 
Garrison Mathews is a GD hero. 
y’all keep talking about getting rid of Silas and even though he’s only 1-19 in his last 20 we only have a 1 game lead on last place. This shit could all get ruined by winning 4 out 5 during some stretch. Silas and Mathews are hero’s 

All of this for a 14% chance at a guy that has as much a chance to be an injury bust as a franchise corner stone. He's not even playing in the best French league. This thread title is hilarious, because the Rockets are going to suck for longer than 1 more year.

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4 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

All of this for a 14% chance at a guy that has as much a chance to be an injury bust as a franchise corner stone. He's not even playing in the best French league. This thread title is hilarious, because the Rockets are going to suck for longer than 1 more year.

14% chance at getting the most important and necessary piece to winning a title. That’s not bad odds. 
I fully expect playoffs next year. 
they are on the only rational path for an org that’s not in NY, LA or Mia. 

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

14% chance at getting the most important and necessary piece to winning a title. That’s not bad odds. 
I fully expect playoffs next year. 
they are on the only rational path for an org that’s not in NY, LA or Mia. 

You keep saying this like the French dude is awesome. He may be, but he's not some can't miss prospect. Same with Henderson. I'd rather go get a vet PG that can be a 3 and D player more than an offensive catalyst. We have that guy right now in Sengun, taking the ball out of his hands is stupid. I know this right now; I don't have to project it against some perfect future scenario

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5 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

You keep saying this like the French dude is awesome. He may be, but he's not some can't miss prospect. Same with Henderson. I'd rather go get a vet PG that can be a 3 and D player more than an offensive catalyst. We have that guy right now in Sengun, taking the ball out of his hands is stupid. I know this right now; I don't have to project it against some perfect future scenario

Sengun is not the lynchpin to a title winning team. You have to have a top 5 in the NBA guy to win a title. Nobody on this roster is that. Your only chance is to hit it big with this draft pick. Why are you so intent on getting the tickets to 44-50 wins?  Let the process run, this is the last year for it and why you put in all that work to suck. Let it happen. 

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Lulz. Sengun is light years better than the French dude, and he's actually doing it nightly on the NBA level. Sengun was the best player his last year in Europe in a much better league than Wembanyama is playing in. It's hilarious you think this dude is closer to a linchpin than a 20-year-old averaging 19.6/10.6/7.4/1.5/1.4 since becoming the focal point of the offense.

All this on 12.5 FGA per game with a shooting line of .670/.714/.545, the Rockets can absolutely build around Sengun, Green, Smith, Martin, and Eason. If they had a coach worth a shit those 5 guys would be getting all the playing time to develop their games, as the Rockets are going to have to extend them after the next 2 and 3 seasons respectively.

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