Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

If we're being serious, the Fairness Doctrine needs to be reinstated to try to stop the immeasurable damage Fox News and its ilk are doing to this country.

Fairness is woke. So, no.

Posted
16 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You can't just be AGAINST something.

You have to be FOR something.

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

Fair point.
 

If we’re talking about progress, most of this country is against it. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
Quote

Cult Reprogramming

Stick with what works.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult

Quote

Things to Do First

  1. Start with you. Become well-informed by doing your homework. Formulate a plan. Research cults and coercive control. Don’t make the mistake of trying to rationally argue. Learn about mind control techniques and which communication strategies are most effective. Don’t fly blindly. I recommend reading these two books in this order: Combating Cult Mind Control and Freedom of Mind. My website is filled with useful and important information, including many blogs, interviews, and videos. Helping a person will be a process requiring patience, effort, flexibility, and love.
  2. Build rapport and trust. Rebuild your relationship, if it’s broken. If you were the one to break contact, apologize. Reach out and be warm. Remember the good times. Focus on common values and areas you both enjoy (children, pets, music, dancing, fishing, sports). At first, don’t talk about controversial topics. Avoid “hot topics.” Just try to connect with the other person and have positive interactions. Build credibility and sustain positive interaction. Build a long-term relationship based upon respect, compassion, and love.
  3. Do what you can to remove or minimize media that continually indoctrinates to only one point of view. This may only apply to certain types of cult groups. But it may be in the form of social media, videos, or television. You can even agree to make a pact to go on a media fast together. Don’t make this about “them” or “their problem.” Make this a fun thing to do together as a “break.” Be prepared to honor requests on your end.

Things to Do During Your Conversations

  1. Ask thought-provoking questions while being warm and curious. Be prepared to listen deeply. You will know if you have listened well if you can repeat back to them what they said. Be humble and open to hearing what they say.
  2. Keep conversations positive, productive, and civil. Never get angry. Stay resourceful. It is better to end the interaction than to say something counter-productive. It is better to return to the conversation at another time, rather than the person cutting off all communication out of anger or fear.
  3. Adopt a general tone of curiosity and interest in their positions. Pretend you’re an impartial counselor. Really try to get inside their beliefs.
  4. Try to connect them with their authentic identity before these extreme beliefs. Remind them of past experiences together. Talk about the connection you once had and how you miss it.
  5. Don’t “tell” them anything. Help them to make discoveries on their own.
  6. Try to get them to look at reality from many different perspectives. This can include many things.
  7. Teach them about indoctrination and mind control. Use examples for which they have no attachment.
  8. Use examples of cult leaders with similar qualities to their group's leader(s) and have conversations about it.
  9. Share feelings and perceptions, not judgments. Use “I feel” statements. Don’t claim to be “right.” Stick to what your perception is when reflecting back to them.
  10. Ask a question and then wait for them to think and respond. Be patient. You do not need to fill silence.
  11. Caution: an abundance of facts won't necessarily help. Do not overwhelm them with information, especially if it attacks the leader or doctrine.

In terms of government policies there probably will need to be some kind of jobs program and incentive system that is tied to a concrete commitment to disavowing Trumpist values. Kind of like being on unemployment. People who refuse should be forced to pay reparations to the Trump regime's victims and their families.

  • Like 1
Posted
8 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Stick with what works.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult

In terms of government policies there probably will need to be some kind of jobs program and incentive system that is tied to a concrete commitment to disavowing Trumpist values. Kind of like being on unemployment. People who refuse should be forced to pay reparations to the Trump regime's victims and their families.

Probably solid advice but it would be so much more satisfying to kick the living shit out of them.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 1
Posted
16 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

Even though it's been more implicit in the past and there are outliers amongst MAGA supporters, I think it's becoming more explicted recently in evidence of ICE arrests and Jubilee debates that MAGA is for heterosexual white supremacy. 

Posted

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Even though it's been more implicit in the past and there are outliers amongst MAGA supporters, I think it's becoming more explicted recently in evidence of ICE arrests and Jubilee debates that MAGA is for heterosexual white supremacy. 

Stassney out front shoulda told ya

Posted
11 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

In sum: move to the right.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.

You DO realize the Southern Strategy was an explicit effort to conflate economic and social issues, so that they could attack social issues like integration using economic terms?

That muddying of the waters is a very successful republican strategy 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Like 1
Posted
44 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

Income inequality is greater now in America than in France at the start of the French Revolution. 

  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted

It's not really possible to deradicalize at scale. Our best bet is to splinter their political coalition, destroy some of the major financial sources of their political power (particularly car dealership owners, MLMs, and crypto), and find some charismatic liberal politicians who can make being conservative seem lame and stupid again to younger people.

We can disillusion many of Trump's voters so much that they never vote again. But we can't deradicalize them, and doing what we need to do to diminish their political power will radicalize many of them further.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

The biggest thing that will hurt Trump is an economic downturn.  Even with all the Epstein shit lately, Trump's polling is better than when the stock market lost money during his initial tariff push.  

So, on a personal level, consider pushing off big purchases until there is a change.    

As far as the Dems go, they need to learn to communicate economic concerns better.  The GOP did a great job of making 2024 seem like economic turmoil.  Since Trump has been elected, the DJIA has risen less than 2% in six months, which is pretty lackluster.  The USD has dropped 10% against the Euro, 7.4% against the Pound, and even 2% against the struggling Yuan.  Unemployment has ticked up slightly (4.0% to 4.1%).  There is plenty to work with here to communicate that Trump is bad (or at least not  particularly good) for the economy.  Yet the Democrats need to be pushing this.  They need to break this perception that Republicans are better for the economy.  

As far breaking ties with billionaires, that is easier said than done.  Politics is very expensive and keeps getting more expensive.  If the Dems are ever in the position to effect policy changes that take money out of politics, they should definitely do so.  But until then, they need every resource they can get.  Many candidates have sworn off corporate donations, which already puts them at a disadvantage.  

I think Democrats need to change their messaging around corporations.  I think people not in the corporate world underestimate the effect corporate propaganda has on millions of workers/voters.  Most people want their corporation to make money.  They perceive it as more money and more security for them.  Pounding the podium and shouting "...just so corporations can make more money" is not the zinger a lot of politicians think it is, because that is exactly the goal that millions of workers have, because corporations have spent a lot money to drive that goal into their heads.  I think less focus on the profits and more focus on the negative aspects (pollution, harm to citizens, whatever) is important. Also, this us vs. corporations is part of the reason why many voters think Republicans are better on the economy, despite all evidence to the contrary.  

I sound more centrist than I am.  I'm trying to be pragmatic here because I am tired of losing to shitstains.  

But honestly, I think how (what media) Democrats communicate is probably a bigger issue than what they are communicating.  The message is not hitting.  Not sure how to solve that.  

Posted
1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Income inequality is greater now in America than in France at the start of the French Revolution. 

The evidence has to be in that "income inequality" isn't going to sway people who fear a brown non-Christian takeover of America.

I think all the GOP has to make sure that voters aren't hungry.  Kids, etc.  Who cares?  If the voters have fast food, then they won't care about income inequality.

Posted
1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

I figured no one would like my post :D

But many of the ideas in this thread boil down to, "How do we manipulate voters into doing what we want?"  That sounds an awful lot like a certain cult I know.  I understand that it may feel like the only option left, but realize that you are erecting and joining your own cult.  Yay, team?

I would rather see Dems consider, "How do we bring ourselves more into alignment with the concerns of the majority of voters and get them to understand that we have done it?"  My overcomplicated post is really just focusing solely on economic populism and effectively reaching voters with that platform.  It's not unlike your suggestion, but without making up vile shit.  You don't have to make anything up if you can effectively target and talk to the economically pained US voter about their pain and how what you are going to do about it will be better than what the oligarchs are doing about it.  Give them nothing else to make their decision on, nothing else for the opposition to use against you.  That's ALL you stand for -- helping the most U.S. citizens as possible live lives free of financial distress.

It's should be soooo easy, and yet... it hasn't been done.  Why?  Ineptitude?  A void of strategic vision?  Dems also being in bed with and dependent on the billionaires?  Fear of all the rednecks with guns who would just as soon vote from the rooftops as ballot box?  Some ratio of all of the above?

Those questions are why I've transitioned from crusader to apathetic observer.  The fundamental flaw in this thread is stated in its title.  "Dem strategery".  The only effective strategy I see on display from Dems is, "How can we lose ridiculously without the majority of our base coming to the conclusion that we are fucking ridiculous?"

Posted
18 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The biggest thing that will hurt Trump is an economic downturn.  Even with all the Epstein shit lately, Trump's polling is better than when the stock market lost money during his initial tariff push.  

So, on a personal level, consider pushing off big purchases until there is a change.    

As far as the Dems go, they need to learn to communicate economic concerns better.  The GOP did a great job of making 2024 seem like economic turmoil.  Since Trump has been elected, the DJIA has risen less than 2% in six months, which is pretty lackluster.  The USD has dropped 10% against the Euro, 7.4% against the Pound, and even 2% against the struggling Yuan.  Unemployment has ticked up slightly (4.0% to 4.1%).  There is plenty to work with here to communicate that Trump is bad (or at least not  particularly good) for the economy.  Yet the Democrats need to be pushing this.  They need to break this perception that Republicans are better for the economy.  

As far breaking ties with billionaires, that is easier said than done.  Politics is very expensive and keeps getting more expensive.  If the Dems are ever in the position to effect policy changes that take money out of politics, they should definitely do so.  But until then, they need every resource they can get.  Many candidates have sworn off corporate donations, which already puts them at a disadvantage.  

I think Democrats need to change their messaging around corporations.  I think people not in the corporate world underestimate the effect corporate propaganda has on millions of workers/voters.  Most people want their corporation to make money.  They perceive it as more money and more security for them.  Pounding the podium and shouting "...just so corporations can make more money" is not the zinger a lot of politicians think it is, because that is exactly the goal that millions of workers have, because corporations have spent a lot money to drive that goal into their heads.  I think less focus on the profits and more focus on the negative aspects (pollution, harm to citizens, whatever) is important. Also, this us vs. corporations is part of the reason why many voters think Republicans are better on the economy, despite all evidence to the contrary.  

I sound more centrist than I am.  I'm trying to be pragmatic here because I am tired of losing to shitstains.  

But honestly, I think how (what media) Democrats communicate is probably a bigger issue than what they are communicating.  The message is not hitting.  Not sure how to solve that.  

This sounds suspiciously right-wingy.

Posted
3 hours ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

Why do so many people constantly talk about a fake version of the Democratic party that's even worse at politics than the real Democratic party? Why is their "solution" to the problems of this fake party always what the real party has been doing (and which has proven insufficient)?

Dems have been trying to hide from social issues, duck culture war shit, and focus on kitchen table issues every single election since 1992. When do you think that will start actually working? Before or after they've herded us all into gas chambers? 

Ducking from culture war fights is how you lose the fucking culture war and that fight is much more important to most people than economic issues they don't understand. When you tell voters that your opponents are right on their culture war shit, you're telling them to vote for your opponents. THAT is what has driven people to vote Republican. It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  



×
×
  • Create New...