Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

If we're being serious, the Fairness Doctrine needs to be reinstated to try to stop the immeasurable damage Fox News and its ilk are doing to this country.

Fairness is woke. So, no.

Posted
16 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You can't just be AGAINST something.

You have to be FOR something.

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

Fair point.
 

If we’re talking about progress, most of this country is against it. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
Quote

Cult Reprogramming

Stick with what works.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult

Quote

Things to Do First

  1. Start with you. Become well-informed by doing your homework. Formulate a plan. Research cults and coercive control. Don’t make the mistake of trying to rationally argue. Learn about mind control techniques and which communication strategies are most effective. Don’t fly blindly. I recommend reading these two books in this order: Combating Cult Mind Control and Freedom of Mind. My website is filled with useful and important information, including many blogs, interviews, and videos. Helping a person will be a process requiring patience, effort, flexibility, and love.
  2. Build rapport and trust. Rebuild your relationship, if it’s broken. If you were the one to break contact, apologize. Reach out and be warm. Remember the good times. Focus on common values and areas you both enjoy (children, pets, music, dancing, fishing, sports). At first, don’t talk about controversial topics. Avoid “hot topics.” Just try to connect with the other person and have positive interactions. Build credibility and sustain positive interaction. Build a long-term relationship based upon respect, compassion, and love.
  3. Do what you can to remove or minimize media that continually indoctrinates to only one point of view. This may only apply to certain types of cult groups. But it may be in the form of social media, videos, or television. You can even agree to make a pact to go on a media fast together. Don’t make this about “them” or “their problem.” Make this a fun thing to do together as a “break.” Be prepared to honor requests on your end.

Things to Do During Your Conversations

  1. Ask thought-provoking questions while being warm and curious. Be prepared to listen deeply. You will know if you have listened well if you can repeat back to them what they said. Be humble and open to hearing what they say.
  2. Keep conversations positive, productive, and civil. Never get angry. Stay resourceful. It is better to end the interaction than to say something counter-productive. It is better to return to the conversation at another time, rather than the person cutting off all communication out of anger or fear.
  3. Adopt a general tone of curiosity and interest in their positions. Pretend you’re an impartial counselor. Really try to get inside their beliefs.
  4. Try to connect them with their authentic identity before these extreme beliefs. Remind them of past experiences together. Talk about the connection you once had and how you miss it.
  5. Don’t “tell” them anything. Help them to make discoveries on their own.
  6. Try to get them to look at reality from many different perspectives. This can include many things.
  7. Teach them about indoctrination and mind control. Use examples for which they have no attachment.
  8. Use examples of cult leaders with similar qualities to their group's leader(s) and have conversations about it.
  9. Share feelings and perceptions, not judgments. Use “I feel” statements. Don’t claim to be “right.” Stick to what your perception is when reflecting back to them.
  10. Ask a question and then wait for them to think and respond. Be patient. You do not need to fill silence.
  11. Caution: an abundance of facts won't necessarily help. Do not overwhelm them with information, especially if it attacks the leader or doctrine.

In terms of government policies there probably will need to be some kind of jobs program and incentive system that is tied to a concrete commitment to disavowing Trumpist values. Kind of like being on unemployment. People who refuse should be forced to pay reparations to the Trump regime's victims and their families.

  • Like 1
Posted
8 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Stick with what works.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult

In terms of government policies there probably will need to be some kind of jobs program and incentive system that is tied to a concrete commitment to disavowing Trumpist values. Kind of like being on unemployment. People who refuse should be forced to pay reparations to the Trump regime's victims and their families.

Probably solid advice but it would be so much more satisfying to kick the living shit out of them.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 2
Posted
16 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

GQP has proven this is bullshit. You can be against everything. 

Even though it's been more implicit in the past and there are outliers amongst MAGA supporters, I think it's becoming more explicted recently in evidence of ICE arrests and Jubilee debates that MAGA is for heterosexual white supremacy. 

Posted

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Even though it's been more implicit in the past and there are outliers amongst MAGA supporters, I think it's becoming more explicted recently in evidence of ICE arrests and Jubilee debates that MAGA is for heterosexual white supremacy. 

Stassney out front shoulda told ya

Posted
11 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

In sum: move to the right.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.

You DO realize the Southern Strategy was an explicit effort to conflate economic and social issues, so that they could attack social issues like integration using economic terms?

That muddying of the waters is a very successful republican strategy 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
  • Hook 'Em 8
  • Like 1
Posted
44 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

Income inequality is greater now in America than in France at the start of the French Revolution. 

  • Rage+1 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted

It's not really possible to deradicalize at scale. Our best bet is to splinter their political coalition, destroy some of the major financial sources of their political power (particularly car dealership owners, MLMs, and crypto), and find some charismatic liberal politicians who can make being conservative seem lame and stupid again to younger people.

We can disillusion many of Trump's voters so much that they never vote again. But we can't deradicalize them, and doing what we need to do to diminish their political power will radicalize many of them further.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

The biggest thing that will hurt Trump is an economic downturn.  Even with all the Epstein shit lately, Trump's polling is better than when the stock market lost money during his initial tariff push.  

So, on a personal level, consider pushing off big purchases until there is a change.    

As far as the Dems go, they need to learn to communicate economic concerns better.  The GOP did a great job of making 2024 seem like economic turmoil.  Since Trump has been elected, the DJIA has risen less than 2% in six months, which is pretty lackluster.  The USD has dropped 10% against the Euro, 7.4% against the Pound, and even 2% against the struggling Yuan.  Unemployment has ticked up slightly (4.0% to 4.1%).  There is plenty to work with here to communicate that Trump is bad (or at least not  particularly good) for the economy.  Yet the Democrats need to be pushing this.  They need to break this perception that Republicans are better for the economy.  

As far breaking ties with billionaires, that is easier said than done.  Politics is very expensive and keeps getting more expensive.  If the Dems are ever in the position to effect policy changes that take money out of politics, they should definitely do so.  But until then, they need every resource they can get.  Many candidates have sworn off corporate donations, which already puts them at a disadvantage.  

I think Democrats need to change their messaging around corporations.  I think people not in the corporate world underestimate the effect corporate propaganda has on millions of workers/voters.  Most people want their corporation to make money.  They perceive it as more money and more security for them.  Pounding the podium and shouting "...just so corporations can make more money" is not the zinger a lot of politicians think it is, because that is exactly the goal that millions of workers have, because corporations have spent a lot money to drive that goal into their heads.  I think less focus on the profits and more focus on the negative aspects (pollution, harm to citizens, whatever) is important. Also, this us vs. corporations is part of the reason why many voters think Republicans are better on the economy, despite all evidence to the contrary.  

I sound more centrist than I am.  I'm trying to be pragmatic here because I am tired of losing to shitstains.  

But honestly, I think how (what media) Democrats communicate is probably a bigger issue than what they are communicating.  The message is not hitting.  Not sure how to solve that.  

Posted
1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Income inequality is greater now in America than in France at the start of the French Revolution. 

The evidence has to be in that "income inequality" isn't going to sway people who fear a brown non-Christian takeover of America.

I think all the GOP has to make sure that voters aren't hungry.  Kids, etc.  Who cares?  If the voters have fast food, then they won't care about income inequality.

Posted
1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

I figured no one would like my post :D

But many of the ideas in this thread boil down to, "How do we manipulate voters into doing what we want?"  That sounds an awful lot like a certain cult I know.  I understand that it may feel like the only option left, but realize that you are erecting and joining your own cult.  Yay, team?

I would rather see Dems consider, "How do we bring ourselves more into alignment with the concerns of the majority of voters and get them to understand that we have done it?"  My overcomplicated post is really just focusing solely on economic populism and effectively reaching voters with that platform.  It's not unlike your suggestion, but without making up vile shit.  You don't have to make anything up if you can effectively target and talk to the economically pained US voter about their pain and how what you are going to do about it will be better than what the oligarchs are doing about it.  Give them nothing else to make their decision on, nothing else for the opposition to use against you.  That's ALL you stand for -- helping the most U.S. citizens as possible live lives free of financial distress.

It's should be soooo easy, and yet... it hasn't been done.  Why?  Ineptitude?  A void of strategic vision?  Dems also being in bed with and dependent on the billionaires?  Fear of all the rednecks with guns who would just as soon vote from the rooftops as ballot box?  Some ratio of all of the above?

Those questions are why I've transitioned from crusader to apathetic observer.  The fundamental flaw in this thread is stated in its title.  "Dem strategery".  The only effective strategy I see on display from Dems is, "How can we lose ridiculously without the majority of our base coming to the conclusion that we are fucking ridiculous?"

Posted
18 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The biggest thing that will hurt Trump is an economic downturn.  Even with all the Epstein shit lately, Trump's polling is better than when the stock market lost money during his initial tariff push.  

So, on a personal level, consider pushing off big purchases until there is a change.    

As far as the Dems go, they need to learn to communicate economic concerns better.  The GOP did a great job of making 2024 seem like economic turmoil.  Since Trump has been elected, the DJIA has risen less than 2% in six months, which is pretty lackluster.  The USD has dropped 10% against the Euro, 7.4% against the Pound, and even 2% against the struggling Yuan.  Unemployment has ticked up slightly (4.0% to 4.1%).  There is plenty to work with here to communicate that Trump is bad (or at least not  particularly good) for the economy.  Yet the Democrats need to be pushing this.  They need to break this perception that Republicans are better for the economy.  

As far breaking ties with billionaires, that is easier said than done.  Politics is very expensive and keeps getting more expensive.  If the Dems are ever in the position to effect policy changes that take money out of politics, they should definitely do so.  But until then, they need every resource they can get.  Many candidates have sworn off corporate donations, which already puts them at a disadvantage.  

I think Democrats need to change their messaging around corporations.  I think people not in the corporate world underestimate the effect corporate propaganda has on millions of workers/voters.  Most people want their corporation to make money.  They perceive it as more money and more security for them.  Pounding the podium and shouting "...just so corporations can make more money" is not the zinger a lot of politicians think it is, because that is exactly the goal that millions of workers have, because corporations have spent a lot money to drive that goal into their heads.  I think less focus on the profits and more focus on the negative aspects (pollution, harm to citizens, whatever) is important. Also, this us vs. corporations is part of the reason why many voters think Republicans are better on the economy, despite all evidence to the contrary.  

I sound more centrist than I am.  I'm trying to be pragmatic here because I am tired of losing to shitstains.  

But honestly, I think how (what media) Democrats communicate is probably a bigger issue than what they are communicating.  The message is not hitting.  Not sure how to solve that.  

This sounds suspiciously right-wingy.

Posted
3 hours ago, Goredho said:

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

Why do so many people constantly talk about a fake version of the Democratic party that's even worse at politics than the real Democratic party? Why is their "solution" to the problems of this fake party always what the real party has been doing (and which has proven insufficient)?

Dems have been trying to hide from social issues, duck culture war shit, and focus on kitchen table issues every single election since 1992. When do you think that will start actually working? Before or after they've herded us all into gas chambers? 

Ducking from culture war fights is how you lose the fucking culture war and that fight is much more important to most people than economic issues they don't understand. When you tell voters that your opponents are right on their culture war shit, you're telling them to vote for your opponents. THAT is what has driven people to vote Republican. It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do so many people constantly talk about a fake version of the Democratic party that's even worse at politics than the real Democratic party? Why is their "solution" to the problems of this fake party always what the real party has been doing (and which has proven insufficient)?

Dems have been trying to hide from social issues, duck culture war shit, and focus on kitchen table issues every single election since 1992. When do you think that will start actually working? Before or after they've herded us all into gas chambers? 

Ducking from culture war fights is how you lose the fucking culture war and that fight is much more important to most people than economic issues they don't understand. When you tell voters that your opponents are right on their culture war shit, you're telling them to vote for your opponents. THAT is what has driven people to vote Republican. It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  

The Office Thank You GIF

Posted
11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do so many people constantly talk about a fake version of the Democratic party that's even worse at politics than the real Democratic party? Why is their "solution" to the problems of this fake party always what the real party has been doing (and which has proven insufficient)?

Dems have been trying to hide from social issues, duck culture war shit, and focus on kitchen table issues every single election since 1992. When do you think that will start actually working? Before or after they've herded us all into gas chambers? 

Ducking from culture war fights is how you lose the fucking culture war and that fight is much more important to most people than economic issues they don't understand. When you tell voters that your opponents are right on their culture war shit, you're telling them to vote for your opponents. THAT is what has driven people to vote Republican. It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  

I couldn't disagree more, but hey, maybe the dems will do what you say and maybe they'll be successful losing people like myself.

Posted
1 minute ago, Goredho said:

I couldn't disagree more, but hey, maybe the dems will do what you say and maybe they'll be successful losing people like myself.

The current political reality in this country is a binary choice. I hate it, but it's the truth. The fact you consider yourself losable might be a bigger problem.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The current political reality in this country is a binary choice. I hate it, but it's the truth. The fact you consider yourself losable might be a bigger problem.

*shrugs*  It's ok, I've been lost.  I have no faith anymore in either party.  If someone gives me something worthy of my belief and energy, I'll believe in it.  They have not as previously described, so... :shrugs:

Also, it's a ternary choice.  R, D or stay home.

Posted
17 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I couldn't disagree more, but hey, maybe the dems will do what you say and maybe they'll be successful losing people like myself.

Are you saying you will refuse to vote if Dems say actually we need to pass a new voting rights act?

Posted

I'll tell you what legitimately works - start talking about how rural Texas is dying because of one-party rule. 

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Ducking from culture war fights is how you lose the fucking culture war and that fight is much more important to most people than economic issues they don't understand. When you tell voters that your opponents are right on their culture war shit, you're telling them to vote for your opponents. THAT is what has driven people to vote Republican. It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  

This is completely wrong. Democrats shouldn't stop working on or talking about social issues. But talking to the majority about things that have nothing to do with their daily struggles is bet best confusing, but mostly comes off as arrogant and elitist, which it usually is. It conveys that the people addressing them are immune or not impacted with those struggles, which in this case they often are.
Here's how to talk about social issues in a way that works:  Talk to the majority about how and why they are getting fucked over. And then when the brain washed Republicans start talking about  drag queens, you get to say "what is your problem? Drag queens didn't close the hospital and drag queens didn't say no to giving you cheaper health insurance. You don't know a single drag queen, but I bet you could use lower property taxes. And unless you change the way you vote, you won't ever get them."

Posted (edited)

Guys, where the fuck have I ever given the impression that I don't think Dems should talk at all about material issues? I have been incredibly consistent on this very simple point for a long time now: Dems need to stop running and engage in the culture war.  Bozo's way works, but that's not the only way.  There are a thousand different ways to do it depending on the issue, context, and candidates involved. Yet every time I push back on "Dems need to run away harder from the culture war!" with this point, people who agree with me go "NO THAT'S COMPLETELY WRONG!"

Our fundamental perception of what the party even is and does and has been doing is so completely broken. 

ETA: there was a time, not that long ago, when being openly racist would've immediately disqualified a candidate even among the Texas GOP. Did the state just become 500% more racist within the past 15 years? Or is something else behind that change? 

Edited by wildcat09
Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Are you saying you will refuse to vote if Dems say actually we need to pass a new voting rights act?

If the Democratic Party takes as leftward a turn as the Republican Party has taken rightward, I'm out, and that's what it sounds like many are advocating in this thread.  I don't see leaning into the culture wars from a leftward perspective as easing the rancor in any way.  I see it having the opposite effect.

I kinda like the centrist D party of the 90s.  It was actually probably the best governance of my lifetime at the federal level.

It's ok, I am perfectly fine being politically homeless and not supporting either party until I see some people who are both moderate and effective at the helm of one or the other.  There is certainly no moderation in the Republican Party, and there is no effectual strategy within the Democratic Party, so...

shrug.gif

But hey, I can be won back by either side.  That's the beauty of being a centrist.  I really don't give a shit if you have an R or a D by your name.  Convince me you are part of the solution vs part of the problem and you can have my vote.  Or don't, and you'll have to find somewhere else to get my +1.

Posted
1 minute ago, Goredho said:

If the Democratic Party takes as leftward a turn as the Republican Party has taken rightward, I'm out, and that's what it sounds like many are advocating in this thread.  I don't see leaning into the culture wars from a leftward perspective as easing the rancor in any way.  I see it having the opposite effect.

I kinda like the centrist D party of the 90s.  It was actually probably the best governance of my lifetime at the federal level.

It's ok, I am perfectly fine being politically homeless and not supporting either party until I see some people who are both moderate and effective at the helm of one or the other.  There is certainly no moderation in the Republican Party, and there is no effectual strategy within the Democratic Party, so...

shrug.gif

But hey, I can be won back by either side.  That's the beauty of being a centrist.  I really don't give a shit if you have an R or a D by your name.  Convince me you are part of the solution vs part of the problem and you can have my vote.  Or don't, and you'll have to find somewhere else to get my +1.

Are you seriously treating "everybody should be able to vote" with "only white men should be able to vote and we should round up everyone else and put them into concentration camps" as equally bad options?

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tuco said:

Also, this us vs. corporations is part of the reason why many voters think Republicans are better on the economy, despite all evidence to the contrary.  

I'm not saying "us vs. corporations".  I'm saying "us vs. those that lead the corporations".  A corporation rakes in billions in profits... meh, ok but a handful of greedy fuckers don't need to capture the lion's share of those billions - spread it out among the people that made those profits happen.

Put human faces to the corruption and break out the pitchforks and torches.

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
Posted
3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Income inequality is greater now in America than in France at the start of the French Revolution. 

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Drool 1
Posted
9 minutes ago, Goredho said:

If the Democratic Party takes as leftward a turn as the Republican Party has taken rightward, I'm out, and that's what it sounds like many are advocating in this thread.  I don't see leaning into the culture wars from a leftward perspective as easing the rancor in any way.  I see it having the opposite effect.

I kinda like the centrist D party of the 90s.  It was actually probably the best governance of my lifetime at the federal level.

It's ok, I am perfectly fine being politically homeless and not supporting either party until I see some people who are both moderate and effective at the helm of one or the other.  There is certainly no moderation in the Republican Party, and there is no effectual strategy within the Democratic Party, so...

shrug.gif

But hey, I can be won back by either side.  That's the beauty of being a centrist.  I really don't give a shit if you have an R or a D by your name.  Convince me you are part of the solution vs part of the problem and you can have my vote.  Or don't, and you'll have to find somewhere else to get my +1.

I think you are hinting at something philosophical here.

1) There are those who feel a political party has to earn their vote. They are not to be assume and they view their stance as a way to keep politicians honest and not fat and lazy and entitled. These people probably also love the $2.14/hr + tips set up because it keeps waiters incentivized to provide good service.

2) There are those who feel that great-is-the-enemy-of-good-enough and that because US potlics is such a zero-sum, us or them, game, holding out and playing hardball is morally wrong because by doing so you help the party who is horrible.

Is there a 3rd option? Is that what this thread title and ask is driving at?

Posted
3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Are you seriously treating "everybody should be able to vote" with "only white men should be able to vote and we should round up everyone else and put them into concentration camps" as equally bad options?

No.  Are you seriously going to be stuck in a loop of infinite recursion asking me this over and over when I am plainly stating that Democrats will lose my vote if they want to swing hard left and truly become what the right has successfully advertised them as?

Posted
2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

No.  Are you seriously going to be stuck in a loop of infinite recursion asking me this over and over when I am plainly stating that Democrats will lose my vote if they want to swing hard left and truly become what the right has successfully advertised them as?

What is "hard left"?

Posted
24 minutes ago, Goredho said:

But hey, I can be won back by either side.  That's the beauty of being a centrist.  I really don't give a shit if you have an R or a D by your name.  Convince me you are part of the solution vs part of the problem and you can have my vote.  Or don't, and you'll have to find somewhere else to get my +1.

Yeah. I think the problem here is that you see the two sides as left and right. That’s just a show for the rubes, and frankly it’s the biggest problem we have. The parties somehow convinced people that these private organizations in which 99.99999999% of the population plays no consequential role was an identity.
 

The only two sides are: what’s net better for the stuff you care about, and what’s worse?

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

@Goredho, I'll try another tack. There's some Dem commentators suggesting that Dems shouldn't attack Trump on Epstein:

This is of a piece with the "avoid culture war" shit. Do you agree with her?

Posted
No.  Are you seriously going to be stuck in a loop of infinite recursion asking me this over and over when I am plainly stating that Democrats will lose my vote if they want to swing hard left and truly become what the right has successfully advertised them as?

Maybe it would be helpful if you said specifically which Dem policies you have an issue with. “Culture War” is a very broad term.
Posted
I'm not saying "us vs. corporations".  I'm saying "us vs. those that lead the corporations".  A corporation rakes in billions in profits... meh, ok but a handful of greedy fuckers don't need to capture the lion's share of those billions - spread it out among the people that made those profits happen.
Put human faces to the corruption and break out the pitchforks and torches.

Keep in mind people still love the Royal Family. In 2025. I don’t get it. But it’s worth acknowledging that for some fucked up reason a big percentage of people admire the ultra wealthy who didn’t do shit to earn it. I don’t think you’ll find political movement in going after random CEOs. I would love to be proven wrong.
Posted
4 minutes ago, Tuco said:


Maybe it would be helpful if you said specifically which Dem policies you have an issue with. “Culture War” is a very broad term.

Lol, I can't keep up with the deluge of interrogation.  Anyway, as posted previously:

Quote

 

Dems first have to develop strategeries to avoid chronic rake stepping.  Then they need to develop strategeries to avoid screaming "white privilege" into the faces of poor white people who are a paycheck away from homelessness.  Then they need to develop strategeries to quit alienating young men while promoting equality.  Then they need to develop strategeries to reconnect with and listen to working class people.  They need to develop strategeries to avoid social issues while focusing on economic ones that benefit the bell curve of Americans.  They need to develop strategeries for how to connect with rural America and make them feel included in Democratic governance.  They need to develop strategeries for how to make people who are no longer consuming traditional media aware of these efforts.  And then, for the love of God, they need to develop strategeries for how to not nominate fatally flawed Presidential candidates that a majority of voters are going to reject for a cataloupe.

In short, Dems have driven many people to "the cult."  They need to develop strategeries to stop that, first.

 

Gotta get some things done, you all can keep debating ad nauseam the Democrat strategery for how to reprogram voters so they ignore their household economics and vote for the lesser of two evil social-issue candidates :D 

Posted
4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You are way over complicating this.  All Dems have to do is wage all out class warfare against the oligarchs.  Make it a battle of haves vs have-nots and pin coddling up to the Elmos, Zucks, Dimons, Bezos, etc on the GQP.
 

Make up vile shit about them.  Put on blast.  Win.

 

Yeah at this point how the fuck don’t you take the gloves off?  Still concerned with niceties.  It’s nice being against the R’s but you have to counter with shit you’re actually FOR.  Grossly lacking there.  

Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Guys, where the fuck have I ever given the impression that I don't think Dems should talk at all about material issues? I have been incredibly consistent on this very simple point for a long time now: Dems need to stop running and engage in the culture war.  Bozo's way works, but that's not the only way.  There are a thousand different ways to do it depending on the issue, context, and candidates involved. Yet every time I push back on "Dems need to run away harder from the culture war!" with this point, people who agree with me go "NO THAT'S COMPLETELY WRONG!"

The “completely wrong”  part was this:

Quote

It wasn't telling them that we support trans rights, it was refusing to tell them they should too.  

We don’t need them to *support* trans rights. They just have to be tolerant enough of trans rights to accept it as part of the payload that gets them what they want. 
Despite being far more homophobic as a group than secular professional class whites, evangelical blacks, Hispanic Catholics, and blue collar whites chose to make common cause with them for decades in order to advance their own interests.
It wasn’t until the Democrats largely abandoned an agenda centered on things that break around class and made special interest social issues (or in your words, “telling them to support trans rights”) the center of the agenda that Democrats lost a durable multiracial middle class+working class majority coalition. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Democrat strategery for how to reprogram voters so they ignore their household economics

Price of coffee, beef, fruits, vegetables all up significantly and we haven’t even felt the full effects of tariffs, or of immigration raids on farms. Jobs numbers went negative. Only one party is fucking household economics and it isn’t the Dems. But tell me more about winning your vote when you can’t even pay attention to anything beyond Republican talking points from the Clinton era

  • Haha 2
Posted
3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Price of coffee, beef, fruits, vegetables all up significantly and we haven’t even felt the full effects of tariffs, or of immigration raids on farms. Jobs numbers went negative. Only one party is fucking household economics and it isn’t the Dems. 

Maybe they should tell someone or talk about that shit sometimes. 

Posted

When did a Democratic candidate make a special interest social issue the center of their agenda?

We passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act in 1964 and 1965, respectively. Were we a less racist country then? Or did liberals become too scared of speaking affirmatively in support of civil rights? Would we be better off right now if Manchin and Sinema had voted for the new Civil Rights Act in 2022, or was their concern about appearing too focused on social issues to support it correct?

In 2016, North Carolina passed an anti-trans bathroom bill. At the time it was so controversial that the NCAA pulled the NCAA Tournament out of the state, the NBA moved the all star game, and numerous major companies withdrew business from the state. What changed between then and now?  Did the Democrats become vocally more pro-trans rights? Did any Democrats center trans issues in their campaigns? Or did many of them begin acknowledging that Republican messages on trans rights were correct, in an attempt to defuse it as an effective political issue?

There is no running from social issues to focus on material issues. Democrats have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.  

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted

I might have more respect for a diehard Trumper than anyone labeling themselves a "centrist" in this political climate. MAGA are idiots and some are downright evil, but at least it's an ethos. Demanding a middle ground during an authoritarian takeover is beyond ridiculous. 

 

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Haha 1
Posted

 

1. Attack and tax the rick.  Vilify the rich.  Instead of minorities and immigrants, make them the reason for all of the bad things that happen to working class people.

2.  Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine to exert control over media messaging so it can't be batshit.

3.  Address the biggest threat to national security there is - the fucking deficit.  Insist on paying it down by any means necessary, including reducing military spending.  Make people fear the deficit.

4.  Campaign finance reform.  Campaign finance reform.  Campaign finance reform.  As long as money rules politics then the real needs of the country and its people will not be met.

5. Lincoln Project style videos showing every promise Trump did not keep.

Posted
2 hours ago, Tuco said:

As far as the Dems go, they need to learn to communicate economic concerns better.

This will never happen so long as the media (Legacy Media, Big Tech, and "Alternative" Media) are all owned by the 1%. There will always be a narrative where republicans are held blameless for their economic problems. Always.

  • Hook 'Em 1


×
×
  • Create New...