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Last Jedi Was So Bad I Only Saw It Twice


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I was reading the local paper this morning and it had a link to an article: Ranking 'Star Wars' movies from best to worst — an objective and correct ranking that no one will disagree with.

Empire number 1, then...

Quote

2. “Episode VIII — The Last Jedi” (2017)

The one that so many “Star Wars” fans have griped about so publicly and so vehemently over the past six months is, without question, one of the most exciting things that has ever happened to the brand — a Rian Johnson-retooled jawdropper that kills the past without forgetting to properly bury it.

I don't get it.  I can't decide if this type of shit is real or if the whole world is out to troll me.  That movie was garbage start to finish. Fucking garbage. 

 

http://www.omaha.com/go/ranking-star-wars-movies-from-best-to-worst-an-objective/article_d0f9086e-9531-5807-8f2a-1c54e06afe5b.html

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9 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

So Netflix doesnt give a share per view?

 

I think some of it, or a lot of it, is lump sum paid up front for the rights.   Netflix signed a big deal with Disney, and that's ending this year.  I think Coco (also coming in June), Last Jedi and Black Panther will be the last of the major Disney movies on Netflix, since next year the agreement is over.  Thor Ragnarok is also coming out in June, and I think Black Panther later in the year.

In households with say a couple and their teen kids, Netflix would lose money if they were paying per view.  I can only imagine how many times some kids have watched some of the Disney/Pixar movies on Netflix.

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4 hours ago, Colonel Sanders said:

I was reading the local paper this morning and it had a link to an article: Ranking 'Star Wars' movies from best to worst — an objective and correct ranking that no one will disagree with.

Empire number 1, then...

I don't get it.  I can't decide if this type of shit is real or if the whole world is out to troll me.  That movie was garbage start to finish. Fucking garbage. 

 

http://www.omaha.com/go/ranking-star-wars-movies-from-best-to-worst-an-objective/article_d0f9086e-9531-5807-8f2a-1c54e06afe5b.html

This was TLJ’s “proper burial” of the past and every aspect of Luke Skywalker’s prior character in gif form:

coffin.gif

Edited by longhornmatt
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I was reading the local paper this morning and it had a link to an article: Ranking 'Star Wars' movies from best to worst — an objective and correct ranking that no one will disagree with. Empire number 1, then...

 

2. “Episode VIII — The Last Jedi” (2017)

The one that so many “Star Wars” fans have griped about so publicly and so vehemently over the past six months is, without question, one of the most exciting things that has ever happened to the brand — a Rian Johnson-retooled jawdropper that kills the past without forgetting to properly bury it. I don't get it.  I can't decide if this type of shit is real or if the whole world is out to troll me.  That movie was garbage start to finish. Fucking garbage.   

 

 

Fucking hipsters...

 

 

 

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I remember a tweet posted somewhere - someone said he or she was crying tears of joy over seeing a female Asian in Star Wars movie. I’ve never wanted to twitter punch someone in the face harder.


I guess they missed the trade confederation characters from Phantom Menace
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I've got shoes older than that kid.  Anyone who saw Star Wars for the first time on a fucking television doesn't get to rank it.  Sorry.  If you didn't experience it on a fucking drive-in theater or movie house big screen, kindly stfu.


Well I saw Star Wars in a theater about 4 times in 1977 and agree with the ranking.

Guess I’m just stupid too - or just have a different opinion. ;)
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On 4/7/2018 at 10:52 AM, Buzzrock said:

The bombs were magnetic. And there were zero G bombs in two other SW movies.

This makes no sense.  If they bombs were magnetic wouldn't they be attracted to the metal ship they were allegedly falling (in a vacuum) out of?

Plus, these 'advanced' bombers that travel slowly in space while getting picked apart by tie fighters?  Lame.  And who is the genius who made the remote control 'drop the bombs' button?  You know, the box thingy with the big red button that fell all over the ship.  Why not mount that fucking thing to a console?  Better yet, have about ten of those buttons all over the ship so more than one person could drop the bombs.  Even better, how about make it voice activated?  Have a droid do it, etc.  Clearly, it was just a plot mechanism designed to create tension and suspense in the movie.  I get that is necessary in movies but at least make it logical!

The way Snoke died - so stupid.  This powerful force user can connect Rey and Kylo together via a video call with the force while they are light years apart and the dude can't sense the light saber two feet away that will cut him in half?  WTF???!

So many problems with this movie.  Marvel has made 20+ movies and every one of them has been 'good' to 'great'.  The prequels and VII and VIII have been complete shit shows.  It's like Marvel gets the A team and Star Wars gets the C+ team.  Fuck!

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So how should Snoke have died? Kylo completely fooled his master. It happens. Snoke was distracted and Kylo took advantage. He’s powerful but not omnipresent.


On a larger scale, it’s more derivative and lazy than anything else. Very reminiscent of ROTJ. What it sets up is that Kylo will be the main bad guy and Snoke was just a guy. It’s like they just updating OT and put a spin on it with younger, more emo characters. Out with the old, in with the new.

The villains in this trilogy are incompetent, and with the exception of Kylo, complete throw aways. And Kylo is not overly competent, either.
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1 hour ago, The Dog said:

So how should Snoke have died? Kylo completely fooled his master. It happens. Snoke was distracted and Kylo took advantage. He’s powerful but not omnipresent.

How?  A huge saber fight, why not? or he could have prank called him with his cell phone and when Snoke looked down to see who's calling, Kylo cuts his head off.  Wait, can you have two prank calls in the same SW film?  Is that allowed?

I disagree with your ranking, but I do give you credit for at least seeing it the way it should have been seen.  

Edited by mulletpelini
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41 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 


On a larger scale, it’s more derivative and lazy than anything else. Very reminiscent of ROTJ. What it sets up is that Kylo will be the main bad guy and Snoke was just a guy. It’s like they just updating OT and put a spin on it with younger, more emo characters. Out with the old, in with the new.

The villains in this trilogy are incompetent, and with the exception of Kylo, complete throw aways. And Kylo is not overly competent, either.

 

This.... it was such a lazy effort.  Almost derivative of a Bond villain.  He's playing with his food and then this dude that apparently is prescient about these two can feel Rey's rush coming but not Kylo's?  It was really bad.  At least Luke earned his conversion of his father and it was at great cost (Vader's life). 

This movie has severely damaged the franchise and if you look at this weekend's box office..... I guess Rian wanted to kill Han Solo again as well.

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After Solo and Rogue One, I'm quickly reaching the opinion that Lucasfilm should've never done a sequel trilogy and instead focused on the anthology movies just to not have the same recycled OT plot points. Seriously, were any of us served by having the happy ending of ROTJ undone?

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3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This.... it was such a lazy effort.  Almost derivative of a Bond villain.  He's playing with his food and then this dude that apparently is prescient about these two can feel Rey's rush coming but not Kylo's?  It was really bad.  At least Luke earned his conversion of his father and it was at great cost (Vader's life). 

This movie has severely damaged the franchise and if you look at this weekend's box office..... I guess Rian wanted to kill Han Solo again as well.

Agreed.

One issue I really have with TLJ, which includes the scene we're talking about here, is how Rian seemingly wants to have his cake and eat it, too.  Everyone was praising him for blowing up Star Wars' tropes, boring old storyline, the Skywalkers, etc., but he really doesn't. 

Kylo is all about letting the past die.  Kill it if you have to.  Except he's just repeating the same ol' shit Vader was up to.  "Join me and together we can rule the galaxy!"

Luke is saying that the Jedi need to die and that he'll be the "last Jedi."  Which is actually where I'd like to see them take this stuff.  Get rid of the Sith, get rid of the Jedi, and for there just to be people that use the force a la Ahsoka or The Bendu.  Except, no, Rey took the Jedi books and she's now the Last Jedi.  So, so much for that.

And while TFA was a straight remake of ANH, just bigger and dumber, this film is still aping tons of shit from the OT.  Including this scene where Snoke gets got in the dumbest way imaginable.  The entire time Snoke is running his mouth to Rey I couldn't stop thinking about the Emperor running his mouth to Luke at the end of ROTJ.  Then they both get done in by their apprentices because of their hubris.  Hell, I think he even used some of the same lines as the Emperor, IIRC.

So Johnson either didn't have the balls to really go full out on his "fuck the old shit this is the new shit" agenda or he got overridden by Darth Kennedy and Disney.  So what we ended up with was a half-baked mess. 

Oh, and one other thing that I think often gets overlooked here is how unearned Kylo's turn to super badass is here.  In the first film he's obviously strong in the Force, but he's wild, petulant, has zero control, etc.  This film occurs basically right after TFA.  Kylo's face isn't even healed yet, Rey is just meeting Luke, etc.  So what character development do we get with Kylo in this film?  Snoke gives him a verbal beatdown and calls him out on his shit and Kylo breaks his fancy hat.  That seems like just more emo bullshit.  Then he leads an attack on the Rebel fleet, but still can't pull the trigger on Mommy.  Again, conflicted just like the first film (even though him killing Han really should have put paid to that nonsense).  Then, through Snoke's frankly amazing ability with the Force which further invalidates the idea he wouldn't figure out that Kylo was going to kill him, he connects Kylo and Rey across space and they have some chats.  That's it.  So maybe you can say Kylo finally just decided he was going to take over, but does that alone justify his being able to so easily dispatch Snoke?  Kylo goes in the course of a few days from wild, uncontrollable, emo rage monster to cold, calculating, and clever Bad Motherfucker.  Really, it just further reinforces an idea that Rian and Disney were supposed to be getting rid of:  that the Skywalker line is super special in the Force and they can get away with shit because of it.  Kylo had never shown any subtlety or cleverness up to that point.  He was a loose cannon through and through.  But since we're lazy and don't want to do these characters justice, he now becomes Mr. Trickster, Snoke becomes an idiot, and away we go.

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1 hour ago, SpiralOut said:

 

One issue I really have with TLJ, which includes the scene we're talking about here, is how Rian seemingly wants to have his cake and eat it, too.  Everyone was praising him for blowing up Star Wars' tropes, boring old storyline, the Skywalkers, etc., but he really doesn't. 

Yup.  

Rewatched Rogue One yesterday.  Fantastic movie as a standalone.  Enjoyed it way more than TFA.  And felicity jones is bae.

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Yoda drops a lighting bolt on a tree and sets it on fire,  why didn't he ghost in and drop a lighting bolt on the emperor during return of the jedi?...seems like ghost jedi's that can create lighting could be super helpful ....fml

and this twat is worse than JarJar, Dex, kid Anakin, terrible actor teen Anakin, NOOOOOO, mary poppins leia, Pod Racing....she's basically the worst thing in the entire star wars universe ...the worst 

xp3qqu.jpg

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13 hours ago, mdmost said:

After Solo and Rogue One, I'm quickly reaching the opinion that Lucasfilm should've never done a sequel trilogy and instead focused on the anthology movies just to not have the same recycled OT plot points. Seriously, were any of us served by having the happy ending of ROTJ undone?

I think the concept of continuing the story was fine, however the execution has been extremely poor..... If Johnson hated the premise of the Skywalkers and their place within the Force users history, he probably should have never been hired for this project.  I'm wondering if he'll even get his opportunity to build out the universe now.  He's damaged the franchise and now they'll be searching for answers and probably making some changes.  Episode 9 will be big but they will need something new to build upon....

 

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"HAHAHA nothing matters! Fuck all that stuff you liked in the OT! Fuck everything we started to introduce in the last movie! Fuck Luke Skywalker! And now everyone can use the force so there's nothing special about it!"

I hate this movie. 

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47 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think the concept of continuing the story was fine, however the execution has been extremely poor..... If Johnson hated the premise of the Skywalkers and their place within the Force users history, he probably should have never been hired for this project.  I'm wondering if he'll even get his opportunity to build out the universe now.  He's damaged the franchise and now they'll be searching for answers and probably making some changes.  Episode 9 will be big but they will need something new to build upon....

 

I'll be honest and say that I think Rian Johnson could create a good trilogy if left to his own devices. If it's a world he could build then it could have a chance of being good. I'll still maintain a lot of the problems with this new trilogy is not having one person being in charge of the overall story. If you wanted JJ to make the new trilogy, he should've written the entire thing. Or let Kasdan write the whole thing.  But going from one vision to the next for every movie is a recipe for failure because you have one persons vision either being a continuation of the last one's or a complete revision of the last one.  But I'll still maintain that it was a story that didn't need to be told because it would be some derivative of the OT. There's only so many ways they could go. 

As far as him getting that chance, I think that's only if Kathleen Kennedy is still the boss. Any reorganization of Lucasfilm means he's not getting his trilogy. The poor returns of Solo are going to have a definite impact on what's to come. It's a shame because I'd prefer more Rogue Ones or Solos to the sequel trilogies. 

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The thing is this...they didn't need to "throw away the past" . They had one more episode after TLJ  and then it is done.  What is the point of throwing something away 8 episodes in with one to go?  That's like if Texas announced they are shutting down the football program in 2025 but until then we are changing our names to the Texas Pecan Trees and going with brown and mustard yellow as our colors.

To somewhat the same point MD is making you can "throw away the past" go in different directions, whatever with the stand alones.  I saw Solo this morning.  It wasn't earth shattering but it was a entertaining little heist flick set in the Star Wars universe that gave a little back story color to a character we know and didn't have to use the word "force" once.

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38 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I'll be honest and say that I think Rian Johnson could create a good trilogy if left to his own devices. If it's a world he could build then it could have a chance of being good. I'll still maintain a lot of the problems with this new trilogy is not having one person being in charge of the overall story. If you wanted JJ to make the new trilogy, he should've written the entire thing. Or let Kasdan write the whole thing.  But going from one vision to the next for every movie is a recipe for failure because you have one persons vision either being a continuation of the last one's or a complete revision of the last one.  But I'll still maintain that it was a story that didn't need to be told because it would be some derivative of the OT. There's only so many ways they could go. 

As far as him getting that chance, I think that's only if Kathleen Kennedy is still the boss. Any reorganization of Lucasfilm means he's not getting his trilogy. The poor returns of Solo are going to have a definite impact on what's to come. It's a shame because I'd prefer more Rogue Ones or Solos to the sequel trilogies. 

I agree with a lot of what your wrote.  

1.  I agree Rian Johnson is a talented guy and probably would have been better served doing an offshoot movie.  He simply had the wrong vision for the franchise.

2.  Not having one creative force behind the trilogy allowed for incoherent storylines to try and be mended together.  I sort of wonder if JJ was supposed to be the guy and something happened with Kennedy.  Remember, we were supposed to have Trevorrow for episode 9 and really other than TFA, nothing has been easy for the overall Star Wars Universe.  TLJ is proving to be a major misstep.  Rogue One was plagued by multiple re-writes, change in directors, and production delays.  It worked out but it was a really bumpy ride.  Ditto with Solo as Howard had to come in to save the movie, which leads to....

3.  Kathleen Kennedy doesn't seem to be the person to lead the business or creative end of this property.  She's no Kevin Feige and almost all of her decisions have been problematic and difficult.  They see the bottom line and say, Kennedy is a genius but she's like the Roger Goodell of movie making.  The property is so valuable, making money was not in question, it was going to print money for awhile, it's how can you steward it towards the future viability without much noise.  She seems not to be the right person.  

At this point, I'll really watch the fallout from Solo's underwhelming box office.  Again, I thought it was entertaining, so I'm not trying to hate on the universe but is Rian Johnson's name too sullied with SW fans for him to be given a trilogy?  Is he the Zach Snyder of the his universe an probably should be paid to go away now?  How long is Kennedy's leash?  When will Disney get tired of all the production problems with these movies?  Answer is when they stop making money..... welp, we just got the first movie which is probably going to lose money or break even during it's initial run.

They don't have anything else on the calendar (except 9) but seem to be assembling directors and writers for an Obi-Wan story, which I think there is an appetite for and maybe Boba Fett, which I'm skeptical about b/c Lucas killed his character, but who knows....

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

It's a shame because I'd prefer more Rogue Ones or Solos to the sequel trilogies. 

This is exactly where I am right now.  You could make some pretty kick ass movies that would still do great money.  I realize the entire terrible prequels were Anni but they weren't exactly Darth Vader.  I'd like to see more of him between ep 3 and rogue one, something like the "Vader Down" comic series that was so fucking good.

I'm sure they could twist a story out of BF but I'm just having a hard time imagining that.

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4 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

The thing is this...they didn't need to "throw away the past" . They had one more episode after TLJ  and then it is done.  What is the point of throwing something away 8 episodes in with one to go?  That's like if Texas announced they are shutting down the football program in 2025 but until then we are changing our names to the Texas Pecan Trees and going with brown and mustard yellow as our colors.

To somewhat the same point MD is making you can "throw away the past" go in different directions, whatever with the stand alones.  I saw Solo this morning.  It wasn't earth shattering but it was a entertaining little heist flick set in the Star Wars universe that gave a little back story color to a character we know and didn't have to use the word "force" once.

we'd fuck up the mustard yellow in the endzones.

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I wonder if Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson even like Star Wars.   I don’t see how someone who loved the OT would write TLJ basically for the specific purpose of burning it all down.  

It’s like buying the Yankees and then taking pinstripes off the uniforms while proclaiming that Ruth, Mantle and Derek Jeter can go fuck themselves.  Because you people need to stop caring about the past of this franchise ... even though your affection for the past of this franchise is the whole reason the brand has value and allows us to print money! 

Edited by longhornmatt
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I know this has been beat to death, BUT i cant wrap my head around how anyone thought this was a good movie. This movie to me wasn't just a bad Star Wars movie, it was a bad movie. You know its kinda like the political atmosphere lately. This movie has been the most divisive event in the Star Wars franchise and like politics now, either side cant understand why the other dislikes or likes something. Must be the world we live in now....

 

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On 5/28/2018 at 11:05 PM, longhornmatt said:

I wonder if Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson even like Star Wars.   I don’t see how someone who loved the OT would write TLJ basically for the specific purpose of burning it all down.  

It’s like buying the Yankees and then taking pinstripes off the uniforms while proclaiming that Ruth, Mantle and Derek Jeter can go fuck themselves.  Because you people need to stop caring about the past of this franchise ... even though your affection for the past of this franchise is the whole reason the brand has value and allows us to print money! 

You make it sound as if Kansas hiring a KState grad at AD would be bad or something.

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t see Kathleen Kennedy surviving this. 

all of the recent SW movies are bringing in better returns than the avengers franchise... legacy and story aside, isnt it blockbusters for the financiers/investors?

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all of the recent SW movies are bringing in better returns than the avengers franchise... legacy and story aside, isnt it blockbusters for the financiers/investors?


They’re leaving money on the table. Solo and TLJ are underperforming expectations. TFA set the table and TLJ did not build off the momentum. It may not be DC Comics bad, but nevertheless Disney’s got to be concerned.
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4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

all of the recent SW movies are bringing in better returns than the avengers franchise... legacy and story aside, isnt it blockbusters for the financiers/investors?

The last 4-6 Disney/Marvel movies have performed at or above expectations ( Spidey is Sony). 

Disney wanted TLJ and Solo to put up Black Panther and Infinity War numbers.  It’s not happening. 

And for better or for worse, many fans and critics keep saying Kathleen is the problem with the franchise.  TLJ in particular.  And this is against the backdrop of Dave Filoni finding a lot of successs with the animated side of Star Wars. 

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I wonder how Trevarrow's exit on IX plays into all this. I know the rumors, but perhaps Kennedy and company wanted to simply go back to the Abram's vision - which did well even if it was a rehashing of ANH. 

Apparently Trevarrow wanted to bring back both Luke and Snoke. 

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10 hours ago, 52-80 said:

all of the recent SW movies are bringing in better returns than the avengers franchise... legacy and story aside, isnt it blockbusters for the financiers/investors?

Black Panther did better than The Last Jedi.  

Avengers Infinity Wars is kicking the shit out of Solo and has a chance to outgross TFA.

TFA is a giant and 3rd biggest move of all-time but out of the 20 biggest grossing movies of all-time (without inflation), Star Wars has 2, Marvel has 6.

How exactly are the SW movies doing better than Marvel?

 

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