Jump to content
Bevo VIII

Joel Osteen is a fraud meta thread

Recommended Posts

Dude at work hates me because i referred to Osteen as a Jesus starter kit who teaches obvious heresies.

Once you undestand most people are going to hell it makes more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, ERhine said:

You keep posting and adding nothing of substance. Do I need to fucking spoon feed it to you? Read the thread. Google his actions. Do something other than post repeatedly about how without having done anything to look into the issue you don’t understand why the thirty or so Houston posters on the thread dislike him.

I don’t know why I’m even engaging with you because you’ll post some other equally worthless post about blah blah blah and you don’t get it. Whatever.

man i didn't even know you posted words 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Somebody remind me how Osteen is no better than most organized churches in this country?  

Charisma  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be careful not to lump all churches in with the Osteen-modeled prosperity gospel mega churches that are nothing more than big businesses who do not preach basic Christian principles, but rather are more of a motivational speaker/entertainment show combination.

I read some of the posts here and it makes me fearful that for all too many it has to be an "all or nothing" approach.  I think such an approach would ruin, and I don't use that term lightly, a large number of small, struggling congregations who are money poor but Gospel rich.  My little church falls into that category.

These prosperity gospel preachers like Osteen, the guy in the Woodlands, and guys up here in DFW are preaching a false gospel, and raking in millions in the process.  I have no problem with them being taxed because clearly they are simply wealthy motivational speakers.  I've listened to Osteen a few times on the teevee...and I don't recall the name Jesus ever being uttered by him, nor the gospel that we are saved through Christ's blood alone.

But in our zeal to call these mega-church millionaire preachers out for the con men they are (and they are con men, there is no doubt), let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and destroy a number of good, true gospel-preaching small, poor congregations in the process.  If my church had to pay property taxes on our small, dilapidated property at the rates of a normal business, we would have to shut our doors.  That would also shut the doors on our Christian daycare that my community...many of whom are not Christian at all...have come to depend on for good, quality, child care that they can't find elsewhere.

Edited by Uncle Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an Osteen fan at all, but how would you tax him or his church? He would pay tax on his salary but I've heard it's small. Or how would you tax churches in general? They don't really make a profit as such. They hope to cover expenses and if they do they give the rest away (at least most do--not sure about Lakewood) You can tax their property but the valuation would be difficult. First United Methodist in downtown Houston takes up a city block. First Baptist Dallas probably has more. Second Baptist Houston has 75? acres of prime Tanglewood area real estate. St Martin's Episcopal Houston and St Michael's Catholic Houston also are sitting on extremely valuable land. But in their hands the land and buildings really have no value. Unless the laws are completely overhauled to apply a special valuation method for churches (and probably not constitutional) it would be very difficult to tax them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, HouTex said:

Not an Osteen fan at all, but how would you tax him or his church? He would pay tax on his salary but I've heard it's small. Or how would you tax churches in general?

Tax everything and let God sort it out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would offer a large exemption for churches...say $1 million and then tax over that.  The church I used to attend is not that large of a congregation (probably averages around 400 attendance through the various Sunday services), but somehow they convinced themselves that they needed a gym for a recreational venue for members.  When that got taken in to replace the fellowship hall that they had convinced themselves was too small, they built another gym.  There is zero reason for churches to be providing recreational outlets of this type.  This is the kind of stuff I would like to see taxed.  How much more could be done without having to handle to the upkeep and utilities on buildings that don't really provide for their mission?

Edited by Catpfish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

Let's be careful not to lump all churches in with the Osteen-modeled prosperity gospel mega churches that are nothing more than big businesses who do not preach basic Christian principles, but rather are more of a motivational speaker/entertainment show combination.

I read some of the posts here and it makes me fearful that for all too many it has to be an "all or nothing" approach.  I think such an approach would ruin, and I don't use that term lightly, a large number of small, struggling congregations who are money poor but Gospel rich.  My little church falls into that category.

These prosperity gospel preachers like Osteen, the guy in the Woodlands, and guys up here in DFW are preaching a false gospel, and raking in millions in the process.  I have no problem with them being taxed because clearly they are simply wealthy motivational speakers.  I've listened to Osteen a few times on the teevee...and I don't recall the name Jesus ever being uttered by him, nor the gospel that we are saved through Christ's blood alone.

But in our zeal to call these mega-church millionaire preachers out for the con men they are (and they are con men, there is no doubt), let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and destroy a number of good, true gospel-preaching small, poor congregations in the process.  If my church had to pay property taxes on our small, dilapidated property at the rates of a normal business, we would have to shut our doors.  That would also shut the doors on our Christian daycare that my community...many of whom are not Christian at all...have come to depend on for good, quality, child care that they can't find elsewhere.

At least these heretics are pedo-buggerist Catholic priests.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Joel Osteen makes me wish Hell existed.

Heck he IS proof it exists, after all he is the devil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

I would offer a large exemption for churches...say $1 million and then tax over that.  The church I used to attend is not that large of a congregation (probably averages around 400 attendance through the various Sunday services), but somehow they convinced themselves that they needed a gym for a recreational venue for members.  When that got taken in to replace the fellowship hall that they had convinced themselves was too small, they built another gym.  There is zero reason for churches to be providing recreational outlets of this type.  This is the kind of stuff I would like to see taxed.  How much more could be done without having to handle to the upkeep and utilities on buildings that don't really provide for their mission?

You're not tracking. Money comes in, momey goes out. There is no "net income" to tax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

You're not tracking. Money comes in, momey goes out. There is no "net income" to tax.

I'm tracking just fine.  I'm referring to property taxes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would I go about converting my self into a religious entity and getting my employer to pay my salary as a tithe.  Hypothetically speaking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Catpfish said:

There is zero reason for churches to be providing recreational outlets of this type.  This is the kind of stuff I would like to see taxed.  How much more could be done without having to handle to the upkeep and utilities on buildings that don't really provide for their mission?

This is exactly the type of things that churches should be providing.  My church has a gym and a recreation center and provides supervised activities for middle and high school kids.  They are staffed with volunteers every day after school and provide a safe place for kids with no parent at home to go.  Kids don't have to be church members, or Christians to go.  These type of community based services that aren't provided elsewhere are what churches should be doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the shook brother that has a church at 290 near 99 has not  1 but 2 ATMs in his lobby and lives in a 530K house...not quite up to his brother's standard of 860K in the woodlands but not too shabby  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

This is exactly the type of things that churches should be providing.  My church has a gym and a recreation center and provides supervised activities for middle and high school kids.  They are staffed with volunteers every day after school and provide a safe place for kids with no parent at home to go.  Kids don't have to be church members, or Christians to go.  These type of community based services that aren't provided elsewhere are what churches should be doing.

Yeah, I probably went to Chapelwood and 2nd Baptist more than Beth Israel because basketball. Post Oak Young Men's Christian Association was where I went most often, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Catpfish said:

I'm tracking just fine.  I'm referring to property taxes

Roger. Most people dp2nt get that. 

Os the local exemption for "nonprofits"b community service groups, or churches specifically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

Let's be careful not to lump all churches in with the Osteen-modeled prosperity gospel mega churches that are nothing more than big businesses who do not preach basic Christian principles, but rather are more of a motivational speaker/entertainment show combination.

I read some of the posts here and it makes me fearful that for all too many it has to be an "all or nothing" approach.  I think such an approach would ruin, and I don't use that term lightly, a large number of small, struggling congregations who are money poor but Gospel rich.  My little church falls into that category.

These prosperity gospel preachers like Osteen, the guy in the Woodlands, and guys up here in DFW are preaching a false gospel, and raking in millions in the process.  I have no problem with them being taxed because clearly they are simply wealthy motivational speakers.  I've listened to Osteen a few times on the teevee...and I don't recall the name Jesus ever being uttered by him, nor the gospel that we are saved through Christ's blood alone.

But in our zeal to call these mega-church millionaire preachers out for the con men they are (and they are con men, there is no doubt), let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and destroy a number of good, true gospel-preaching small, poor congregations in the process.  If my church had to pay property taxes on our small, dilapidated property at the rates of a normal business, we would have to shut our doors.  That would also shut the doors on our Christian daycare that my community...many of whom are not Christian at all...have come to depend on for good, quality, child care that they can't find elsewhere.

Good post. Set a revenue limit and after a certain threshold it gets taxed. Problem solved. No more Olsteen mansions and half a million dollar sports cars, all thanks to tax free income. And if they still can afford it after tax, more power to them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also remember during the flood he green screened himself at his church with the supplies in the back ground to try and make it look like he was there helping? I member

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously?  Rather than go stand by the supplies for 10 seconds for a photo op, he went through the process of a green screen and photoshop/MS Paint?  Wow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Catpfish said:

I would offer a large exemption for churches...say $1 million and then tax over that.  The church I used to attend is not that large of a congregation (probably averages around 400 attendance through the various Sunday services), but somehow they convinced themselves that they needed a gym for a recreational venue for members.  When that got taken in to replace the fellowship hall that they had convinced themselves was too small, they built another gym.  There is zero reason for churches to be providing recreational outlets of this type.  This is the kind of stuff I would like to see taxed.  How much more could be done without having to handle to the upkeep and utilities on buildings that don't really provide for their mission?

Wrong.

The gyms can serve as community assets both in ministry/ fellowship of citzens on a near daily basis. Membership in the church is not required to attend.  They also are for shelters in times of distress/ natural disasters.

 

FTR not a fan of fako Joel either.

Edited by slorch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't have a problem with gyms as a general proposition.  Might not be the wisest expenditure for a small congregation, but they serve a useful community purpose.  Sports and physical activities, I think most would agree, can be a great venue for learning character and value lessons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm proud to report that he, his wife and their horrible church have all banned me from their Twitter.

I would so love to watch him feel down the hole of despair ala cricket from it's always sunny...rickety-cricket.jpg?quality=95&w=650

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All I know is Chronicle's reporting said they spent $90 million in 2016-2017:
Weekly services accounted for 35% of their spending
TV ministry accounted for 28%
Mission and outreach accounted for.... 1.3%.  They spent almost 12x that on fundraising.
They made $78 million in contributions.  $2.8 million in product sales. $1.75 million in touring events.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4489169-2017-Financial-Statements-for-Lakewood-Church.html


1.3% of revenue in outreach and mission work.

That’s fucked. Maybe have a total charity/ outreach fund meet a decent percentage of total budget or face the tax hammer.

My church releases financials each week. And mission work is way higher than 1.3%.

Who gives these fuckers money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

 




Who gives these fuckers money.

 

Kayden, Jayden, and braylen's mom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who gives them money?  People who want to feel good about themselves because Joel told them a passage in the Bible informs (sort of) they should.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2018 at 10:52 AM, Uncle Nate said:

All or nothing?

Small poor churches be damned?

Yes. Stop using the government to fund fairy tales.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yes. Stop using the government to fund fairy tales.

The government is not "funding" them.

Not taxing does not equate to funding.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

The government is not "funding" them.

Not taxing does not equate to funding.

 

Cool. Then stop giving them an exemption from the thing that everyone else has to do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Cool. Then stop giving them an exemption from the thing that everyone else has to do. 

If you tax the churches like everyone else, then the churches get to have a say in the government (the churches, not the individual members).  I don't think you want that, do you?  I don't.  I believe in the separation of church and state.  It's called the two kingdoms.

I don't want the church involved in the government, and I don't want the government involved in the church.  The only way to have true separation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

If you tax the churches like everyone else, then the churches get to have a say in the government (the churches, not the individual members).  I don't think you want that, do you?  I don't.  I believe in the separation of church and state.  It's called the two kingdoms.

I don't want the church involved in the government, and I don't want the government involved in the church.  The only way to have true separation.

The churchs have a say in the government now. Osteen’s church made 78 million in contributions.

Treat the Church like every other for profit entity in the county. They are a business and nothing more. Treat them as such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

The churchs have a say in the government now. Osteen’s church made 78 million in contributions.

Treat the Church like every other for profit entity in the county. They are a business and nothing more. Treat them as such.

But they aren't for profit.

And I'm not talking about the mega churches.  I'm talking about the small, barely surviving churches. They don't even know what a profit would look like.  They expend more into the community than they bring in.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

If you tax the churches like everyone else, then the churches get to have a say in the government (the churches, not the individual members).  I don't think you want that, do you?  I don't.  I believe in the separation of church and state.  It's called the two kingdoms.

I don't want the church involved in the government, and I don't want the government involved in the church.  The only way to have true separation.

Marvel Comics pays its taxes and it churns out more relevant and compelling literature on a regular basis than does the entirety of any church or religion in the country. But not only that, they don't see their way into trying to get involved in the politics of the government. So yeah, your fucking church can pay taxes dickbag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

But they aren't for profit.

And I'm not talking about the mega churches.  I'm talking about the small, barely surviving churches. They don't even know what a profit would look like.  They expend more into the community than they bring in.  

 

Then get more followers. Basic business. They can’t make enough to pay taxes, they shouldn’t exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

Marvel Comics pays its taxes and it churns out more relevant and compelling literature on a regular basis than does the entirety of any church or religion in the country. But not only that, they don't see their way into trying to get involved in the politics of the government. So yeah, your fucking church can pay taxes dickbag.

What's with the hate?  This debate has been civil.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Then get more followers. Basic business. They can’t make enough to pay taxes, they shouldn’t exist.

Do you have the same stance for every other non-profit, or just the religious ones?

 

Edited by Uncle Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Do you have the same stance for every other non-profit, of just the religious ones?

 

Haven’t done enough research into others. That has nothing to do with the fact that every church should pay taxes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Haven’t done enough research into others. That has nothing to do with the fact that every church should pay taxes

Actually, it very much does.  If you single out churches as non-profits that should pay taxes but not other non-profits, then you are discriminating solely on the basis of religion, which is unconstitutional.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Actually, it very much does.  If you single out churches as non-profits that should pay taxes but not other non-profits, then you are discriminating solely on the basis of religion, which is unconstitutional.

 

You’re not singling them out. You’re doing to opposite in fact. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


mpu


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Recruiting ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Help ... For Sale ... Politics ... Board Discussion
×
×
  • Create New...