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Goo Punch

Better Call Saul. Not coming back until 2020

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Mike losing his shit on Kaylee was so out of character it wasn't believable. Here are the players: Mike, who is essentially the most composed man on the face of the planet, and his sweet little granddaughter Kaylee, the person he loves the most for whom he has infinite patience. And yet that's where we see Mike completely and irrationally lose his cool for the first time ever? I didn't buy it at all.

Also, shouldn't Kaylee be younger, or are we like just a few months away from being in the BB world?

Edited by Goo Punch

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Mike was on edge because he had to kill Werner Zieeeeegler for being involved in something for which he couldn't be trusted.  Same as Mike's son.  So when his granddaughter kept asking about her dad, it sent Mike into a semi-rage.  That's the way I read that scene.

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8 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

Mike was on edge because he had to kill Werner Zieeeeegler for being involved in something for which he couldn't be trusted.  Same as Mike's son.  So when his granddaughter kept asking about her dad, it sent Mike into a semi-rage.  That's the way I read that scene.

that was my take as well.  great start to the season.  hard to believe we are already 30% through the season.  damn.  

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44 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Mike losing his shit on Kaylee was so out of character it wasn't believable. Here are the players: Mike, who is essentially the most composed man on the face of the planet, and his sweet little granddaughter Kaylee, the person he loves the most for whom he has infinite patience. And yet that's where we see Mike completely and irrationally lose his cool for the first time ever? I didn't buy it at all.

Also, shouldn't Kaylee be younger, or are we like just a few months away from being in the BB world?

you know we will cross over by the end of the season.  Gus has already issued the preliminary kill order on Salamaca, and he's financially invested in the lab which he needs to get going asap.  things should converge very quickly.  

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5 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

some of the writing in that last episode was a little too on-the-nose, it was kind of jarring-- the scowling realtor after the wacky shower hijinks and "FIFTY PERCENT OFF DUDE!!!!" gags felt more like a State Farm commercial than Better Call Saul. 

Eight out of ten instead of the usual nine out of ten. 

I agree.  That opening, I just thought, "this is stupid".  Very low-bar for this show.  And the minute Saul got on the elevator, you knew it was going to break down.  A little too predictable.  I did get a laugh out of him blowing off Howard.  

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2 hours ago, Native Horn said:

Mike was on edge because he had to kill Werner Zieeeeegler for being involved in something for which he couldn't be trusted.  Same as Mike's son.  So when his granddaughter kept asking about her dad, it sent Mike into a semi-rage.  That's the way I read that scene.

Exactly.  You have to remember the timeline, even though we've had to wait a year for the show to come back, it's only been a few days to them.  Mike is still really raw from having to kill Werner, and then to have his son brought back up again and the guilt of that.  It was pretty intense though, I was surprised as much as he loves his granddaughter, that he would yell like that, I don't think I've seen him get that upset with anyone else.

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1 hour ago, UTCzech III said:

I don't think I've seen him get that upset with anyone else.

when he found out Gus was dead, and he and Jesse played a sepia toned game of chicken out in the desert.  

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also, re: Mike and Kaylee, even if there's reason for him to get pissy, the way he did it was drill totally out of character. "No, you're doing it wrong!" like a petulant five year old or something. if she had been disobeying him, or if she had been arguing with him and insisting on doing her way instead of the right way, ok, i can see him getting mad. but the way they had him just meltdown like a petulant child like that was just nonsensical.

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32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

also, re: Mike and Kaylee, even if there's reason for him to get pissy, the way he did it was drill totally out of character. "No, you're doing it wrong!" like a petulant five year old or something. if she had been disobeying him, or if she had been arguing with him and insisting on doing her way instead of the right way, ok, i can see him getting mad. but the way they had him just meltdown like a petulant child like that was just nonsensical.

That's typically EXACTLY what happens with guys like Mike.  

As you said, the dude is typically stoic/non-emotional, etc.  But he's still human. He DOES have emotions, and the longer he holds them in, the more likely an outburst will happen, and probably in the presence of someone whom he loves and feels vulnerable around.

If he was going to blow up around ANYONE in the show, it would be Kaylee.

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Mike may have done it on purpose. Shut her down and escape the discussion. The lack of remorse or apology to mom seems to suggest he’s not looking to come back anytime soon. Creating space.

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Agree with derka here. Losing his cool with his granddaughter was way too out of character. Found it an annoying writing mistake.

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You know he's good when I dislike him so much.

RE: Lalo (earlier post I thought was the last post)

Edited by jeevsie
clarity

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I found the blow up at Kaley to be completely believable.  No one is that fucking cool all the time.  This show is about the evolution of the characters.  Mike isn't as hardened and experienced at this point in the game.  He's a human, with emotions, and not a perfectly engineered robot.  Showing those other sides to a character is far more believable to me than someone who never messes up, ever.

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On 2/27/2020 at 2:08 PM, UTCzech III said:

I agree.  That opening, I just thought, "this is stupid".  Very low-bar for this show.  And the minute Saul got on the elevator, you knew it was going to break down.  A little too predictable.  I did get a laugh out of him blowing off Howard.  

I agree with this, but I think the point of the scene was less about surprise or suspense, and more about showing the route for which Saul builds his network of shady, skilled people.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/27/2020 at 6:36 PM, Lurch said:

Mike may have done it on purpose. Shut her down and escape the discussion. The lack of remorse or apology to mom seems to suggest he’s not looking to come back anytime soon. Creating space.

The only semi-sensible explanation I could come up with was that he realized that the life he had gotten himself into was eventually going to lead to his death (sooner or later) and that he was preemptively acting like an asshole so that the inevitable loss wouldn't sting for Kaylee. 

But I agree that it was out of character and bewildering - I don't really see the point of the "but Mike is a person too" angle - it doesn't tell the viewer anything that they don't already know. It just confused people, as reactions here confirm. 

Edited by Prepuce of Doom

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The problem is that in real life, people who are under a severe amount of stress often act out of character.

This is the evolution of Mike (it's the evolution of all of them).  He isn't as hardened, and killing Werner clearly weighed on him.  Look how much pushback he gave Gus.  By the time Breaking Bad has rolled around, he's a stone cold company man.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I found the blow up at Kaley to be completely believable.  No one is that fucking cool all the time.  This show is about the evolution of the characters.  Mike isn't as hardened and experienced at this point in the game.  He's a human, with emotions, and not a perfectly engineered robot.  Showing those other sides to a character is far more believable to me than someone who never messes up, ever.

it's not about "showing that side of Mike", it's about doing it in the least believable way possible. I understand their desire to have him snap on her of all people, but the execution of it was really poor. And it wouldn't even have been hard to fix. He gets wound up with all of the talk about her dad/his son, and that's all good. it makes sense that he's getting agitated. but what ends up ultimately setting Mike off? it's not Kaley arguing with him, or talking back, or even ignoring him; it's "you're doing it wrong!" he throws a tantrum like a five year old girl who's mad that Daddy isn't playing "tea party" correctly, and I'm sorry, but that is not remotely believable from Mike Ehrmantraut. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The problem is that in real life, people who are under a severe amount of stress often act out of character.

This is the evolution of Mike (it's the evolution of all of them).  He isn't as hardened, and killing Werner clearly weighed on him.  Look how much pushback he gave Gus.  By the time Breaking Bad has rolled around, he's a stone cold company man.

you're making excuses for every single criticism of the show. you might consider that you are 100% fanboy and not capable of accepting even the most reasonable criticisms of the show. you keep talking about "it's the evolution of Mike, he's not that hardened yet." how's that? we're like 12-18 months away from Mike cleaning up after Jane's death. you think he's going to evolve more in that time than he has in the previous 40-50 years of life? Mike?! I don't think so. That scene was poorly done and was not in line with who Mike Ehrmantraut is at all. It would be like Jesse killing a puppy and calling it "the evolution of Jesse". 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

you're making excuses for every single criticism of the show. you might consider that you are 100% fanboy and not capable of accepting even the most reasonable criticisms of the show. you keep talking about "it's the evolution of Mike, he's not that hardened yet." how's that? we're like 12-18 months away from Mike cleaning up after Jane's death. you think he's going to evolve more in that time than he has in the previous 40-50 years of life? Mike?! I don't think so. That scene was poorly done and was not in line with who Mike Ehrmantraut is at all. It would be like Jesse killing a puppy and calling it "the evolution of Jesse". 

 

I've defended one or two critiques, because I interpreted the bit differently.  The 50% off bit was stupid, cheesy, and forced humor.  The shower scene wasn't good either.

I disagree completely on the Mike thing.

I'm a Gilligan fanboy, but certain aspects of his writing and production are becoming "signature" to the point of predictability.  He over-relies on "how is he gonna get out of this one?".  The elevator scene was completely predictable, but I also don't think it lacked a point in developing a plot point.

Post-book GOT this ain't.

Edited by Al_4_ISU

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I thought it was a hard goodbye. Yes he went apeshit for basically nothing but Kaylee was his audience, not us. He made Kaylee not want to be around him and to pretty much hate him.

We know it doesn't last because we've seen BB but I read that scene to be Mike removing himself from her life and thereby protecting her from his.

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I don’t know why I thought it was closer to the BB timeline but it’s apparently 2004 in their universe.  Great episode.  You almost lost track of how it was Gus in control of most of what we saw happen tonight save for Kim’s arc and even that was influenced by Saul via Gus’ puppet strings.  

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I don’t know why I thought it was closer to the BB timeline but it’s apparently 2004 in their universe.  Great episode.  You almost lost track of how it was Gus in control of most of what we saw happen tonight save for Kim’s arc and even that was influenced by Saul via Gus’ puppet strings.  

I love the way Gilligan creates shows.  This knife is so fucking obvious but brilliant at the same time 

 

“Once you’re in you’re in”

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Great ep. Felt bad for Kim, she just wants to help but the stubborn old bastard won't let her.

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I don’t know why I thought it was closer to the BB timeline but it’s apparently 2004 in their universe.  Great episode.  You almost lost track of how it was Gus in control of most of what we saw happen tonight save for Kim’s arc and even that was influenced by Saul via Gus’ puppet strings.  

Maybe I am wrong, but assuming BB takes place in 2008, I think this is more like 2006-7. Domingo (Krazy 8) is about to become a CI and one of the people he rats on is his cousin Emilio (jesse gets blamed for it).

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Posted (edited)

I thought Barry Corbin was dead. Good to see I was wrong.

Also, regarding timeline. Barry Corbin said the house was built in 1974 with a 100 year lease and he still had 70 to go. So 2004... right?

Edited by Kel Varnsen

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I thought Barry Corbin was dead. Good to see I was wrong.
Also, regarding timeline. Barry Corbin said the house was built in 1974 with a 100 year lease and he still had 70 to go. So 2004... right?

I don’t recall that detail, but probably right. Just seems like a long time for Krazy 8 to be a CI before flipping his cousin.

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I have a constant dread on something happening to Kim.  Something has to happen.

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9 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

I have a constant dread on something happening to Kim.  Something has to happen.

The transition afterwards will be interesting. Losing Kim is going to gut Jimmy/Saul.

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3 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Maybe I am wrong, but assuming BB takes place in 2008, I think this is more like 2006-7. Domingo (Krazy 😎 is about to become a CI and one of the people he rats on is his cousin Emilio (jesse gets blamed for it).

I definitely should have re-watched the first season of BB. So much I have forgotten pre-Fring.

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I have a constant dread on something happening to Kim.  Something has to happen.

Yep. I thought that old asshole was going to gun her down with a shotgun blast through the door. But her demise probably ends up being more directly related to Saul.

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Kim isn't going to be out of the picture until the final season.

I agree that it's going to be interesting.  You can tell she loathes the idea of Jimmy using the pseudonym.  I can't decide if she leaves him, or if she dies as a result of his actions.

Knowing Gilligan, it will be both.  She'll leave him, and in some wild attempt to win her back, Jimmy will accidentally unleash the chain events of that leads to her death.

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I never thought in a million years that Vince would be able to bridge the gap so well. This season has been fantastic so far. 

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7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

apparently Kaylee stays the same age for 3-4 years based on this timeline. 

Is it the same actress from Breaking Bad?

If so, that's an oversight.  She should be in pre-school at this point.  I think she was in elementary in BB?

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I used to think Kim was going to die before it was all over, then I thought she'd just get disillusioned with Jimmy/Saul and leave him, but now I'm thinking she might wind up in prison or disbarred or something on her own.  The look she gave Acker after she bared her soul about her childhood and he blew her off (and her actions after she got back to the apartment), she's pissed, and she and Saul are gonna pull some shenanigans to get that old man to leave his house, and it's gonna come back on her at some point.  And if that doesn't, it's just going to be the tipping point for her going down a dark path.  I think she's on the verge of breaking bad.

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If Kim does something illegal to get the old guy out of the house then she’s an idiot or the worst lawyer ever or both. She said the guy already lost in court. The bank can get a writ of possession and any LEO would have that guy out in 5 min. That scene had several purposes. But the bank was trying to go cheap and avoid the formal process of obtaining the writ of possession (so-called in Texas). They were hoping Kim could work some cheap magic. It’s still relatively cheap to get him out and very straight forward from a legal perspective.

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i enjoyed that episode more than i've enjoyed any episode in a while. i think. hard to remember with the super long offseason, lol, but yeah, that was a good one. 

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2 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

first ten minutes of that episode were unfucking believable

The cold opens he comes up with are the best part of VG shows. They are like little movies within the show.

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