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Urban Meyer or bust


BurntOrange&White

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On Urban:

he has plenty of money and doesn’t need Texas to get more if he wants it. He is not wallet-whippable. 
 

he has a tarnished but solid legacy as a winner. Everywhere he has been. At UT, given its reputation for making total mincemeat of seemingly qualified coaches, he must know there is a chance he tarnishes the winning part of his legacy. 
 

he knows he will not get away with what he did at OSU and UF at Texas. He may believe that is necessary to winning.  
 

Texas needs a total program rebuild and a cultural rebuild that goes far beyond the program and its fans. He has never taken that in before. Why would he feel he knows how to do it?

so why is he coming again?

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44 minutes ago, J.R. said:

On Urban:

he has plenty of money and doesn’t need Texas to get more if he wants it. He is not wallet-whippable. 
 

he has a tarnished but solid legacy as a winner. Everywhere he has been. At UT, given its reputation for making total mincemeat of seemingly qualified coaches, he must know there is a chance he tarnishes the winning part of his legacy. 
 

he knows he will not get away with what he did at OSU and UF at Texas. He may believe that is necessary to winning.  
 

Texas needs a total program rebuild and a cultural rebuild that goes far beyond the program and its fans. He has never taken that in before. Why would he feel he knows how to do it?

so why is he coming again?

Texas needed a total rebuild after Strong. They don’t need one anymore, just a coach that doesn’t stubbornly insist he’s god’s gift to mankind and his farts smell like flowers,  despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

Edited by totallynotabuttpirate
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8 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Texas needed a total rebuild after Strong. They don’t need one anymore, just a coach that doesn’t stubbornly insist he’s god’s gift to mankind and his farts smell like flowers,  despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

I agree with this. I think for Urban Meyer, he probably sees this as about the smoothest transition he can make going back into college football. Whatever you think about Herman, he has done a good job of recruiting talent during his tenure here. This is not the rebuild that Charlie Strong walked into. I think with Herman and Strong as our last two coaches, there is already the rough framework of what a Meyer program generally looks like.  The missing factor has been Urban's fanatical attention to detail that we have obviously haven't had for the last 7 years. With the structure, talent and support in place, I think Urban probably sees this as his most ideal landing spot.

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On Urban:
he has plenty of money and doesn’t need Texas to get more if he wants it. He is not wallet-whippable. 
 
he has a tarnished but solid legacy as a winner. Everywhere he has been. At UT, given its reputation for making total mincemeat of seemingly qualified coaches, he must know there is a chance he tarnishes the winning part of his legacy. 
 
he knows he will not get away with what he did at OSU and UF at Texas. He may believe that is necessary to winning.  
 
Texas needs a total program rebuild and a cultural rebuild that goes far beyond the program and its fans. He has never taken that in before. Why would he feel he knows how to do it?
so why is he coming again?
Your argument is that Urban won't want to come here because he thinks the challenge is too big for him and he wants to avoid taking a chance where he might fail?

Yeah, that totally seems like the way elite coaches like Meyer think. Low confidence in their abilities, risk avoidance, etc.
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54 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Your argument is that Urban won't want to come here because he thinks the challenge is too big for him and he wants to avoid taking a chance where he might fail?

Yeah, that totally seems like the way elite coaches like Meyer think. Low confidence in their abilities, risk avoidance, etc.

well he sure as hell didn't have the challenge at Ohio State that he'll have here, he went home to Ohio and took over a championship level team. He comes here and he has to basically start from scratch.

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2 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Texas needed a total rebuild after Strong. They don’t need one anymore, just a coach that doesn’t stubbornly insist he’s god’s gift to mankind and his farts smell like flowers,  despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

This kind of arrogance about the state of the program is why Texas is exactly where it almost always is. 

Edited by J.R.
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well he sure as hell didn't have the challenge at Ohio State that he'll have here, he went home to Ohio and took over a championship level team. He comes here and he has to basically start from scratch.

Not at all. Especially since every senior can return if they choose. Now in some cases that’s not a plus, but still.
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1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Your argument is that Urban won't want to come here because he thinks the challenge is too big for him and he wants to avoid taking a chance where he might fail?

Yeah, that totally seems like the way elite coaches like Meyer think. Low confidence in their abilities, risk avoidance, etc.

No my argument is that he will not come because he might not be successful because of forces totally outside of his control which is exactly the kind of thing successful intelligent people think about for your information

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2 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Texas needed a total rebuild after Strong. They don’t need one anymore, just a coach that doesn’t stubbornly insist he’s god’s gift to mankind and his farts smell like flowers,  despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

At first I agreed with this.

Then after considering it for a while, I think it's probably not accurate.  

We're still saying we need a culture change or overhaul.  That always seems to be a bigger deal than you might initially think.

We also seem to be a little low on some "selected" talent, that is, we have some bad evals and poor development.  And we still probably don't get as good a recruiting haul as we need to compete at the highest level.

When you look at it that way, it's closer to a total rebuild than something else.

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

At first I agreed with this.

Then after considering it for a while, I think it's probably not accurate.  

We're still saying we need a culture change or overhaul.  That always seems to be a bigger deal than you might initially think.

We also seem to be a little low on some "selected" talent, that is, we have some bad evals and poor development.  And we still probably don't get as good a recruiting haul as we need to compete at the highest level.

When you look at it that way, it's closer to a total rebuild than something else.

Look here. This is part of what I am talking about folks. 

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Just now, J.R. said:

No my argument is that he will not come because he might not be successful because of forces totally outside of his control which is exactly the kind of thing successful intelligent people think about for your information

Since you have such insight, please tell us more about the brains and thought process of "successful intelligent people."  

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Just now, Bill Lumbergh said:
4 minutes ago, J.R. said:
No my argument is that he will not come because he might not be successful because of forces totally outside of his control which is exactly the kind of thing successful intelligent people think about for your information

Which forces?

The arrogant forces of the country club atmosphere that makes players, fans, alumni etc think Texas should win just because “We’re Texas” and not because of CEASELESS MAXIMUM EFFORT which is a core tenet of Urbans philosophy definitely not present at Texas and something I think Urban may have a serious reservation about. 

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The arrogant forces of the country club atmosphere that makes players, fans, alumni etc think Texas should win just because “We’re Texas” and not because of CEASELESS MAXIMUM EFFORT which is a core tenet of Urbans philosophy definitely not present at Texas and something I think Urban may have a serious reservation about. 
Fan and alumni culture/atmosphere have zero impact on the team's performance.

Player culture does, and the coach has complete control over that. Meyer is on record saying it's one of a head coach's most important jobs.

I can't decide if you're aggy or sooner. I lean aggy.
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1 minute ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Fan and alumni culture/atmosphere have zero impact on the team's performance.

Player culture does, and the coach has complete control over that. Meyer is on record saying it's one of a head coach's most important jobs.

I can't decide if you're aggy or sooner. I lean aggy.

I lean strongly that you are a total fucking idiot and a big part of the problem. 

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13 minutes ago, J.R. said:

The arrogant forces of the country club atmosphere that makes players, fans, alumni etc think Texas should win just because “We’re Texas” and not because of CEASELESS MAXIMUM EFFORT which is a core tenet of Urbans philosophy definitely not present at Texas and something I think Urban may have a serious reservation about. 

So he wouldn’t want to coach at USC either?

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Zero impact? That isn't true at all. Probably part of the issue with Texas is that a lot of fans think this. 
It's hyperbole a bit, but I think the culture within the team is a much bigger problem than the culture outside the team.

If I'm Meyer, I'm concerning myself with whether I can fix the culture within the team. If he can do that, he can win. That's my point. He doesn't have to try to fix the fan or alumni culture.
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Just now, J.R. said:

I certainly think there is less to fix there. 

Well what you said is really vague, so I don’t know. But if entitlement is an issue, then USC has problems too. Where do you live? I think your take is too Texas centric. Let’s not pretend their athletic department has been better than ours. 

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I did. You just can’t figure it out. 
You're talking in circles, so I'll leave it at this.

Urban will come here if he thinks he can win. Guys as successful as him are going to be very good at understanding what variables matter, and what variables are noise in that calculation, as well as whether you can control the variables that matter.

At Texas, he has talent (he's said so himself), a recruiting hotbed, a conference that shouldn't present as much of a challenge as he faced in the big 10 or sec, and resources. He has to fix terrible development and team culture. If he can fix those and win, a lot of other "problems" fall in line.

Yes, our fan base is spoiled and has ridiculous expectations. Where that Meyer would consider coaching is that not true? I've heard mentioned usc or Notre Dame...are those variables better there? The kinds of jobs a guy like Meyer will look at will all have those cultural hurdles. He's faced them before at osu, and personally I don't think he'd avoid a job like Texas for those reasons.

In other words, he will have control on the variables most important to winning, and winning will take care of the external variables.

Clearly you think they'll be enough to keep him from the job, or you have an interest in him not taking the job, or maybe both. Either way, we don't know and won't ever know, but the next report that says he's reconsidering the job because of fan and alumni culture will be the first. I don't buy it.
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5 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Well what you said is really vague, so I don’t know.

You could ask for clarification, but J.R. might not answer because he just isn't sure you'll be able to figure it out.  He's very intelligent.

Edited by TriStone
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16 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Well what you said is really vague, so I don’t know. But if entitlement is an issue, then USC has problems too. Where do you live? I think your take is too Texas centric. Let’s not pretend their athletic department has been better than ours. 

It is very Texas centric. Your point is fair. I just think there are less outside forces weighing down the football program there. It’s a smaller department for one, less alumni that care about football, just easier to be sure you could do whatever you thought was necessary. 

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7 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

Well your fucking wrong just like all your other takes, Helton still has job there because the administration at USC doesn't care about football anymore and has told the donors to piss off.

That would be a goddamned blessing were it to occur at Texas. 

Edited by J.R.
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16 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

You're talking in circles, so I'll leave it at this.

Urban will come here if he thinks he can win. Guys as successful as him are going to be very good at understanding what variables matter, and what variables are noise in that calculation, as well as whether you can control the variables that matter.

At Texas, he has talent (he's said so himself), a recruiting hotbed, a conference that shouldn't present as much of a challenge as he faced in the big 10 or sec, and resources. He has to fix terrible development and team culture. If he can fix those and win, a lot of other "problems" fall in line.

Yes, our fan base is spoiled and has ridiculous expectations. Where that Meyer would consider coaching is that not true? I've heard mentioned usc or Notre Dame...are those variables better there? The kinds of jobs a guy like Meyer will look at will all have those cultural hurdles. He's faced them before at osu, and personally I don't think he'd avoid a job like Texas for those reasons.

In other words, he will have control on the variables most important to winning, and winning will take care of the external variables.

Clearly you think they'll be enough to keep him from the job, or you have an interest in him not taking the job, or maybe both. Either way, we don't know and won't ever know, but the next report that says he's reconsidering the job because of fan and alumni culture will be the first. I don't buy it.

You already have Urban coming here as long as he thinks he can win?  This is fucking precisely the arrogance I am talking about. Everyone’s dream job must be Texas. 

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Just now, J.R. said:

You already have Urban coming here as long as he thinks he can win?  This is fucking precisely the arrogance I am talking about. Everyone’s dream job must be Texas. 

If you don’t think Texas is a desirable job that someone like Urban Meyer might be interested in, I don’t know what to tell you. We fit the profile of historic under performer that gets guys like him giddy. 

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2 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

If you don’t think Texas is a desirable job that someone like Urban Meyer might be interested in, I don’t know what to tell you. We fit the profile of historic under performer that gets guys like him giddy. 

I didn’t say any of that. I was pointing out you said “Urban WILL come here if he thinks he can win.  

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10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Exactly then they will think they are owed things like access and every damn other thing. 

Well that's better than not getting the job because the USC president already told her AD no and damn near made the AD back out of the position with how hostile the administration and Boosters had become with each other . https://247sports.com/Article/Urban-Meyer-USC-Trojans-football-coaching-search-Clay-Helton-135772389/ 

Edited by Not a Sock
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20 minutes ago, J.R. said:

It is very Texas centric. Your point is fair. I just think there are less outside forces weighing down the football program there. It’s a smaller department for one, less alumni that care about football, just easier to be sure you could do whatever you thought was necessary. 

Fewer, goddammit.

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10 minutes ago, cochamps said:

This may be the worst of your many bad posts on this thread.

You probably just lack the cognitive capacity to fully understand his point.  It's not your fault.  This is J.R. we're talking about.  Dude's just operating on another level.

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1 hour ago, J.R. said:

I certainly think there is less to fix there. 

 

44 minutes ago, J.R. said:

That would be a goddamned blessing were it to occur at Texas. 

 

34 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Exactly then they will think they are owed things like access and every damn other thing. 

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So how exactly does a blue blood or, hell, any school for that matter, get a coach and build their program? 

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