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Posted
4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Joe Rogan hasn't fallen off at all what the fuck world do you live in? You may want to get your frame of reference checked. 

I don't agree with a lot of these guys on anything, but it's actually fucking crazy to think asmongold is on the take and responsible for pushing voters to the right. 

When you listen to Rogan talk about the Harris thing it starts to actually become abundantly clear what the disconnect is. This isn't defending Joe its looking at the situation for what it is instead of some idealistic bullshit that you apparently subscribe to. 

Warping reality to fit your narrative is just as disingenuous as right wing propoganda nonsense. 

And it’s exactly that mentality that is doing the driving away and creating the party wide issue of not knowing what to do while looking like a clueless organization 

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Posted

Asmon is not "on the take" if what you mean is something like Tim Pool being too dumb to realize he's getting paid by Russians. But he does know there's a built-in audience for reactionary politics, and he needs that audience to stay relevant and for whatever income he has to continue.

Nobody in his racist-ass audience was ever "gettable" by the democrats. Like it or not, that's a dipshit crowd. Rogan's too, although it didn't used to be.

Posted
Just now, chainsaw said:

Asmon is not "on the take" if what you mean is something like Tim Pool being too dumb to realize he's getting paid by Russians. But he does know there's a built-in audience for reactionary politics, and he needs that audience to stay relevant and for whatever income he has to continue.

Nobody in his racist-ass audience was ever "gettable" by the democrats. Like it or not, that's a dipshit crowd. Rogan's too, although it didn't used to be.

Jesus you have no idea about this guy and it's hilarious. The only reason I do is because I've played WoW since 2004. The dude has more money and more fingers in revenue generation than you can imagine. His first week of monetization after being forced to monetize was nearly 90k. 

He lives in Austin, in a very modest neighborhood, you keep digging this weird deep hole on complete nonsense. 

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Asmon is not "on the take" if what you mean is something like Tim Pool being too dumb to realize he's getting paid by Russians. But he does know there's a built-in audience for reactionary politics, and he needs that audience to stay relevant and for whatever income he has to continue.

Nobody in his racist-ass audience was ever "gettable" by the democrats. Like it or not, that's a dipshit crowd. Rogan's too, although it didn't used to be.

Asmonds audience is consistent before and after his shift. He didn’t “need” anything to shift for audience. Majority of his audience was left leaning but as an audience probably shifted when he did. Can’t you see that’s the problem that someone like Asmond and others can switch and carry millions with him? We’re not talking just a few thousand. Asmonds audience is millions. Same with Roger, Aiden Ross, Theo, etc. together that’s 10s of millions of people. All the biggest left creators are catered to women 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Asmonds audience is consistent before and after his shift. He didn’t “need” anything to shift for audience. Majority of his audience was left leaning but as an audience probably shifted when he did.

I doubt this, actually. It's not the same people watching today that were watching before he'd left OTK.

Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

I doubt this, actually. It's not the same people watching today that were watching before he'd left OTK.

OTK literally collapsed because of stupid shit related to incel fucking nonsense the org dealt with and said fuck this we are done. Holy absolute fuck you are so disconnected from this topic just stop. 

Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

Adult men with super defensive takes about asmongold is a new one. The internet is full of marvels. 

Your type is part of the problem for Democratic Party though. People are telling you the landscape for the gen z male demographics and you do nothing but shit talk them. 

Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

Adult men with super defensive takes about asmongold is a new one. The internet is full of marvels. 

I'm not defending shit. This is a completely false equivocation and it's EXACTLY what the disconnect is. 

Posted
1 minute ago, immamac said:

OTK literally collapsed because of stupid shit related to incel fucking nonsense the org dealt with and said fuck this we are done. Holy absolute fuck you are so disconnected from this topic just stop. 

His biggest current business loss is Starforge who actually does a great job selling and building quality machines. Have passed multiple blind test by gamers nexus, Linus, jayztwocents, etc. 

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Underdog said:

This might be best kept to yourself. 

I bet he was a Hunter main, probably BM….

 

but knowing imma he seems like he’d be a shaman/pally 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

DEI is fucking stupid and has been stupid forever. 

You don't need a fucking department to just do the right thing and it doesn't have to be called some three letter fad. Thats the problem. The problem isn't what the desired outcomes are, it's how fucking dumb the framework is to get there and because of how dumb it is it never fully realizes the potential of the desired outcome. 

I don’t think DEI is stupid at all. What is, however, is the demagogic assault on egalitarian ideals of diversity.equity and inclusion. The whole of point of creating an infrastructure that removes impediments to allowing the most competent and deserving people has been turned on its head for reasons that don’t make sense. Inclusion in a DEI rubric ensure physically impaired, those on the spectrum and other challenged but able people are not overlooked. What reasonable person could oppose such efforts?  And if we want to keep it completely 100, but for a framework that promoted a desired outcome, 4% of the 52,000 UT students would not be African American. That, btw, is an embarrassingly low number. 
 

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

I don't think asmongold has an incel dipshit crowd and I think you are actually a bright shining beacon of what is wrong with the democratic party. You are gatekeeping a fucking guy trying to express frustration and give examples of what they think needs to change. 

 

52 minutes ago, immamac said:

The fact that you think the other 2 people you mentioned are nothing like asmongold let's me know you have no idea what you are talking about. If you would have said staysafe or some other red pilled moron then maybe I'd have given you some credit. 

Asmongold was famous before streamers were famous, he is in the same category as people like "reckful" and "sodapoppin". His channel is completely demonetized by his own choice and he doesn't allow donations and doesn't pander for views or likes.

And I was talking about you gatekeeping Linux, who is very fucking clearly not maga. 

I'm an old school Asmon watcher and he has taken a very obvious and very hard right turn since the election, and started prior to the election after he got temporarily banned for calling the Palestinians "inferior" and advocating for their genocide. He was forced to both publicly apologize for this, divest himself from his own company and from his gamer org because of shit like this:

Some of the shit he has said since Trump's election has been genuinely appalling and absolutely nothing like he used to be, he's truly a completely different person, at least his on-camera persona is. I could post dozens of videos of him saying shit that genuinely makes me sad to hear coming from a dude I used to be a pretty big fan of.

You're right in saying he doesn't care about money or whatever, he has piles of money already, he doesn't need it. He has openly admitted on live stream that his pivot was entirely driven by the clout he knew he would gain and that's all that matters to him. He is now arguably the largest online political commenter there is, on any platform. He is much larger than say, Ben Shapiro is now. He gained this status in a manner of months, despite having almost zero real knowledge of basically anything he speaks on, and mainly just repeating whatever the Trump administration says on any given topic and saying "YEAH BASED".

That being said, I still wouldn't put him in the category of Staysafe or whatever because A) Staysafe is just a straight up Nazi true believer, and B) I 100% believe Asmon when he says he is doing this for clout. It's a grift, 1000%, the difference being the grift is not for money, it's simply for attention and clout. That said, he's always had extremely weird things to say about women (especially female characters in video games) and pretty strong Islamophobic tendencies as well, such as having one of his characters named after Anders Breivik for years.

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Posted
1 hour ago, YChang said:

Respectfully, I also agree with the sentiment and outcome of what you posted. But, when in history of anywhere, especially in the US, have people consistently done the right thing? There are absolutely legitimate criticisms of defining DEI policies in our universities or corporations that are not skin-deep lip service, and how to evaluate its impact, but human beings collectively behaving on a societal scale do not autonomously do the right thing.

I think it was about 8 years ago when debating MAGA types I just cut to the chase of what I suspected and asked straight up "Do you believe in the Golden Rule?" and got answers that ranged from "what is the Golden Rule?" to "the Golden Rule isn't in the Bible!"

I've lived neck deep in rural, conservative culture for the last 20 plus years. The problem isn't HOW doing the right thing is implemented by left policies when the right thing isn't even explicitly agreed upon or that it's a left problem they don't relate effectively to people with whom they don't share a hyper self-interested, instant gratification value system with. It's a much larger problem of having to persuade a significant chunk of the voting populace that grew up thinking Gordon Gecko saying "greed is good" (and reiterated countless times over thru conservative media) was the vanguard of a new morality to reconsider and change their value system.

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Posted
2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Your type is part of the problem for Democratic Party though. People are telling you the landscape for the gen z male demographics and you do nothing but shit talk them. 

I mean I get what you are saying but you are going overboard. Those little fucks don't even vote anyways. Bottom line if the only way to capture the majority you keep talking about is another rightward shift by the Dems then fuck it. We need to stand our ground these assholes are going to learn anyway. Fuck all that "meet me in the middle" shit.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

I mean I get what you are saying but you are going overboard. Those little fucks don't even vote anyways. Bottom line if the only way to capture the majority you keep talking about is another rightward shift by the Dems then fuck it. We need to stand our ground these assholes are going to learn anyway. Fuck all that "meet me in the middle" shit.

They could vote. That is the problem. They did this time. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, immamac said:

They could vote. That is the problem. They did this time. 

We keep blaming these small demographics. They aren't the real problem.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I mean I get what you are saying but you are going overboard. Those little fucks don't even vote anyways. Bottom line if the only way to capture the majority you keep talking about is another rightward shift by the Dems then fuck it. We need to stand our ground these assholes are going to learn anyway. Fuck all that "meet me in the middle" shit.

I’m not saying shift right. I’m saying reel in the very very loud vocal far far left groups because those groups are the root of the general negativity that republicans spew. 

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

We keep blaming these small demographics. They aren't the real problem.

18-45 isn’t a small demographic. 15% isn’t a small jump in swing states. Losing female voters isn’t good in swing states. 

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Posted

And just to clarify, rural conservative folks have helped me out countless times when I needed it.

Countless.

That's what makes it so maddening that something so innate can be hi-jacked by con artists, but also think it's completely within the realm of possible it can be channeled for good and the general welfare. 

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Posted
37 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’m not saying shift right. I’m saying reel in the very very loud vocal far far left groups because those groups are the root of the general negativity that republicans spew. 

18-45 isn’t a small demographic. 15% isn’t a small jump in swing states. Losing female voters isn’t good in swing states. 

This is where I draw the line because that is exactly what Dems have been doing to us for decades. Ignore black folks so we don't give the right wing something wax poetic about. I hated that shit then and refuse to do that to another minority group.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

And just to clarify, rural conservative folks have helped me out countless times when I needed it.

Countless.

That's what makes it so maddening that something so innate can be hi-jacked by con artists, but also think it's completely within the realm of possible it can be channeled for good and the general welfare. 

I love the coastal bend area, just got back. San Antonio bay down to Baffin, heck all the way down to port Mansfield too. Serious trump country. I get along just fine with all of them. We talk fishing, sports and whatever. They hit on me and my wife at the bar when their wives aren’t looking. This weekend I had a guy flirt with me at H-E-B, he even touched my arm (it was a tad creepy). They help us when we need help. It’s fucking maddening how their politics do not match their day to day life when they don’t know the enemy is who they are interacting with, although if I whispered in their ear “I got the trans” they’d probably freak the fuck out. 

Edited by troph
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Posted
16 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

This is where I draw the line because that is exactly what Dems have been doing to us for decades. Ignore black folks so we don't give the right wing something wax poetic about. I hated that shit then and refuse to do that to another minority group.

I think AOC and Bernie on middle class economic issues is the future of the party. Real middle and working class politics.

like my uncle used to tell my mom, someone in your income bracket should never vote for the republicans. Dems need that back but not in a center right sort of way.  Again the social justice shit is easy, pass the federal equality act and it’s done.  Given what the northern district of Texas just did, it should be an easy justification. Pass it, move on. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, troph said:

I love the coastal bend area, just got back. San Antonio bay down to Baffin, heck all the way down to port Mansfield too. Serious trump country. I get along just fine with all of them. We talk fishing, sports and whatever. They hit on me and my wife at the bar when their wives aren’t looking. This weekend I had a guy flirt with me at H-E-B, he even touched my arm (it was a tad creepy). They help us when we need help. It’s fucking maddening how their politics do not match their day to day life when they don’t know the enemy is who they are interacting with, although if I whispered in their ear “I got the trans” they’d probably freak the fuck out. 

The friendliest people and the

prettiest women you've ever seen...

Yup, how to channel the natural altruism is the trick. 

Posted
27 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The friendliest people and the

prettiest women you've ever seen...

Yup, how to channel the natural altruism is the trick. 

I dunno about the prettiest girls. I like city women.

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Posted (edited)

Last November exit polls seem to offer hope: Moderates and Independents make up a large percentage of voters. Source was NBC News.

image.png.4605f1eb5b34541e7c9d5b845d4ee9e4.pngimage.png.cbcff24de6cd324a7ed5c5b823709069.png

Edited by TreatyOak
Posted
Last November exit polls seem to offer hope: Moderates and Independents make up a large percentage of voters. Source was NBC News.
image.png.4605f1eb5b34541e7c9d5b845d4ee9e4.pngimage.png.cbcff24de6cd324a7ed5c5b823709069.png

“Moderate” means “I only want to expel all minorities from the country, not kill them.” And “independent” means “I once voted for a Dem for a local office because he was an old friend of mine.” Those labels are lies.
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Posted
46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


“Moderate” means “I only want to expel all minorities from the country, not kill them.” And “independent” means “I once voted for a Dem for a local office because he was an old friend of mine.” Those labels are lies.

Chuckle, if you don’t think this is true, check out the independents who call into Washington Journal every morning.

Posted
8 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I bet he was a Hunter main, probably BM….

 

but knowing imma he seems like he’d be a shaman/pally 

I played that game a month after launch because a friend asked me to join him on the Skullcrusher server. I took a NE hunter and did MM so I could have a bunch of HP while I sat at stables on the GM grind. My pet was a cat from Winterspring and I named him Vince Young and went against an Orc hunter for months who named his pet Reggie Bush. Played for 8 years and then one more during Covid when there was nothing to do so I joined to play Vanilla again.

I am guessing @immamac is an UD rogue or Tauren Druid as his original character.

Posted
7 hours ago, troph said:

I think AOC and Bernie on middle class economic issues is the future of the party. Real middle and working class politics.

like my uncle used to tell my mom, someone in your income bracket should never vote for the republicans. Dems need that back but not in a center right sort of way.  Again the social justice shit is easy, pass the federal equality act and it’s done.  Given what the northern district of Texas just did, it should be an easy justification. Pass it, move on. 

That's the thing that @BurntOrange&White and @linux don't seem to get. The Dems don't really campaign on far left issues already outside of the occasional mention about why do we care what people do in their bedrooms. The Republicans attach marginalized group issues to the Dems because they know it works. Nothing you can really do about that outside of denounce them altogether, and that isn't happening. This has been a winning strategy my entire life if anyone remembers the Willy Horton ads back in the day. So you really can't run from that because the right will always blast it with a megaphone.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

That's the thing that @BurntOrange&White and @linux don't seem to get. The Dems don't really campaign on far left issues already outside of the occasional mention about why do we care what people do in their bedrooms. The Republicans attach marginalized group issues to the Dems because they know it works. Nothing you can really do about that outside of denounce them altogether, and that isn't happening. This has been a winning strategy my entire life if anyone remembers the Willy Horton ads back in the day. So you really can't run from that because the CULT will always blast it with a megaphone.

FIFY

It's a full-blown cult. It does not matter what a Democrat actually believes, says or does. If their orange god says something then that's gospel truth to the GQP. How you fight through that is above my pay grade, but my hope is that leaders like AOC, Crockett, Pritzker, Moore, Sanders and many others across the country have a plan for this. 

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Posted
On 5/17/2025 at 10:12 PM, troph said:

And I raise young boys who are liberally minded and I talk to them about the trumper guys in their school. Almost everyone of them has radical trumper parents. Don’t forget, 40% of the electorate and not even across all demographics - meaning a higher concentration of men - are Jan 6 supporters, stop the steal, fuck the radical leftists, hard core MAGA. Of course their sons are hard core MAGA. And Trump has been a factor now for 10-11 years (counting 2016 campaigning in 2015-2016, the young men now going hard to the paint for Trump were unable to vote or were barely 18 and voting for the first time around and they were in the house of their fathers. As it’s always been, dads fucking matter.

100 fucking percent. This issue with young males is because of their parents. 

We have a newly transitioned family member. My 7 year old asked about it, we discussed for 10 minutes, and it's now a non-issue. It's not that fucking hard. 

 

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

100 fucking percent. This issue with young males is because of their parents. 

We have a newly transitioned family member. My 7 year old asked about it, we discussed for 10 minutes, and it's now a non-issue. It's not that fucking hard. 

 

Inspiring Tim Tebow GIF by Home Free

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Posted

I came up with a simple rule/question for any future discussion about people's identity or appearance with my kid: Are they trying to purposefully hurt other people? If the answer is no, then who gives a shit. Let them live their life. Easy peasy. 

 

 

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Posted
9 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I played that game a month after launch because a friend asked me to join him on the Skullcrusher server. I took a NE hunter and did MM so I could have a bunch of HP while I sat at stables on the GM grind. My pet was a cat from Winterspring and I named him Vince Young and went against an Orc hunter for months who named his pet Reggie Bush. Played for 8 years and then one more during Covid when there was nothing to do so I joined to play Vanilla again.

I am guessing @immamac is an UD rogue or Tauren Druid as his original character.

UD Rogue for sure. 

Posted (edited)

the more I think about it, not sure this crew of young men was or will be salvageable - and I would love to be wrong - and welcome @linux @BurntOrange&White or @immamac views on it, truly. 

I think in addition to growing up with dads that are extreme trumpers, I think the fundamental problem is fundamentally different set of values. A poster well above alluded to it - how do you get through to a group of people that simply don't come remotely close to sharing your values? It's one thing for dems to code for trans rights or gay rights or anyone's rights - everyone deserves a fair shot - everyone ... that's easy to say, but what do you do when push comes to shove and legislation is proposed to actively harm others? That's where we are and these young men either don't give a shit, support it, or don't believe it (and with propaganda it's proven head on rebuttals with facts don't work well). That's untenable.

To me the democratic party won't find more believers and followers wading into this group, though the dems certainly need to stop ceding ground in the online world. Instead the democratic party will win by engaging those on the sidelines who share their beliefs but are lukewarm, unaffected (currently), unmotivated and disillusioned. That's what the right did with young men.  Dems have to find their way to their additional voters. 

To me, when 35-50% of the electorate doesn't vote, the answer is motivate more of your people to turn out. That is where the messaging needs to be, and it needs to be next gen on social media, youtube, wherever these voters are listening. <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

Secondly, when elected get shit done and brag incessantly about it.  Biden got a LOT done and didn't say a word. And get the Manchins and the Synemas of the world the fuck out.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

a truly liberal platform will appeal to many, many more than this dog shit crap for billionaires that Trump and co trot out. Biden started it but it was a decade or more too late.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

Edited by troph
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Posted
5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

That's the thing that @BurntOrange&White and @linux don't seem to get. The Dems don't really campaign on far left issues already outside of the occasional mention about why do we care what people do in their bedrooms. The Republicans attach marginalized group issues to the Dems because they know it works. Nothing you can really do about that outside of denounce them altogether, and that isn't happening. This has been a winning strategy my entire life if anyone remembers the Willy Horton ads back in the day. So you really can't run from that because the right will always blast it with a megaphone.

I mean you guys can keep doing the head in the sand routine and think it was just normal GOP propaganda, and I keep telling you it was not, the GOP has been targeting the youth for a while and failing but all of a sudden things like "kill all men" and you honestly don't expect to make headway?

https://srhsoffleash.org/2171/opinion/kill-all-men-is-only-killing-feminism/

You guys have no idea what the bloodsport of the culture wars was, it was very sick, and I am sorry, I am glad all those voices got silenced more or less, they finally learned that violent irrationally emotional speech has consequences.

We need discipline not idiocy, go scream at your pillow.

Posted
1 minute ago, troph said:

the more I think about it, not sure this crew of young men was or will be salvageable - and I would love to be wrong - and welcome @linux @BurntOrange&White or @immamac views on it, truly. 

I think in addition to growing up with dads that are extreme trumpers, I think the fundamental problem is fundamentally different set of values. A poster well above alluded to it - how do you get through to a group of people that simply don't come remotely close to sharing your values? It's one thing for dems to code for trans rights or gay rights or anyone's rights - everyone deserves a fair shot - everyone ... that's easy to say, but what do you do when push comes to shove and legislation is proposed to actively harm others? That's where we are and these young men either don't give a shit, support it, or don't believe it (and with propaganda it's proven head rebuttals with facts don't work well). That's untenable.

To me the democratic party won't find more believers and followers wading into this group, though the dems certainly need to stop ceding ground in the online world. Instead the democratic party will win by engaging those on the sidelines who share their beliefs but are lukewarm, unaffected (currently), unmotivated and disillusioned. That's what the right did with young men.  Dems have to find their way to their additional voters. 

To me, when 35-50% of the electorate doesn't vote, the answer is motivate more of your people to turn out. That is where the messaging needs to be, and it needs to be next gen on social media, youtube, wherever these voters are listening. <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

Secondly, when elected get shit done and brag incessantly about it.  Biden got a LOT done and didn't say a word. And get the Manchins and the Synemas of the world the fuck out.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

a truly liberal platform will appeal to many, many more than this dog shit crap for billionaires that Trump and co trot out. Biden started it but it was a decade or more too late.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

I think the problem is the democratic party is no longer useful. 

People want change in a way that isn't addressed by either party. 

No one wanted any of the 3 last candidates that ran as dems. Hillary only got the nod because they conspired to fuck Bernie out of the nomination. Biden was a compromise candidate from a frankly terrible candidate pool and kamala was forced onto everyone out if desperation in a self induced scramble that resulted in a catastrophic loss. 

Pete is crushing it, but he's tethered to a bunch of idiots and part of the reason he I'd do popular on #bothsides is because he calls out some of the bullshit and bad policy going on in the democratic party. 

Gen X millenials and gen z don't just want a president who understands computers the internet and gaming. They desperately need someone to come in and govern with the new toolkit that exists with technology.

The US Government is antiquated both in practice and in constitution (no new amendment in 40+ years wtf) 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, linux said:

I mean you guys can keep doing the head in the sand routine and think it was just normal GOP propaganda, and I keep telling you it was not, the GOP has been targeting the youth for a while and failing but all of a sudden things like "kill all men" and you honestly don't expect to make headway?

https://srhsoffleash.org/2171/opinion/kill-all-men-is-only-killing-feminism/

You guys have no idea what the bloodsport of the culture wars was, it was very sick, and I am sorry, I am glad all those voices got silenced more or less, they finally learned that violent irrationally emotional speech has consequences.

We need discipline not idiocy, go scream at your pillow.

you're doing the same thing you blame others for. your tone sucks, you don't offer solutions, you just point and say see you don't get it.

provide your solution set - how do you communicate with young men that don't share your values?  should you even do it?  my alternative is yes jump in the fray and prevent additional losses, but you can't change someone's values and you shouldn't change yours to attract them because you'll lose others.  and before you say be strategic about it, there is a wide enough gap in values here that laying low on social / culture issues won't be enough, in the end the value gap is so wide it's not something dems can recover with many of these young men.

so what's your strategic solution - how to you get from where we are to where you want to be?  and what is the specific messaging that will resonate with this demographic and bring them to the democratic tent?

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Posted
Just now, immamac said:

I think the problem is the democratic party is no longer useful. 

People want change in a way that isn't addressed by either party. 

No one wanted any of the 3 last candidates that ran as dems. Hillary only got the nod because they conspired to fuck Bernie out of the nomination. Biden was a compromise candidate from a frankly terrible candidate pool and kamala was forced onto everyone out if desperation in a self induced scramble that resulted in a catastrophic loss. 

Pete is crushing it, but he's tethered to a bunch of idiots and part of the reason he I'd do popular on #bothsides is because he calls out some of the bullshit and bad policy going on in the democratic party. 

Gen X millenials and gen z don't just want a president who understands computers the internet and gaming. They desperately need someone to come in and govern with the new toolkit that exists with technology.

The US Government is antiquated both in practice and in constitution (no new amendment in 40+ years wtf) 

how is Pete going to connect with young men who are full fledged trumpers at this point?  Hispanics? Black voters?  I mean I think he's fantastic.  But how is that going to work?  I think you are left leaning but with a sympathetic ear for many of these complaints, but I'm afraid most of the bickering among these younger men is not coming from sympathetic guys, but the exact opposite. How does Pete win them over?

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Posted
6 minutes ago, troph said:

the more I think about it, not sure this crew of young men was or will be salvageable - and I would love to be wrong - and welcome @linux @BurntOrange&White or @immamac views on it, truly. 

I think in addition to growing up with dads that are extreme trumpers, I think the fundamental problem is fundamentally different set of values. A poster well above alluded to it - how do you get through to a group of people that simply don't come remotely close to sharing your values? It's one thing for dems to code for trans rights or gay rights or anyone's rights - everyone deserves a fair shot - everyone ... that's easy to say, but what do you do when push comes to shove and legislation is proposed to actively harm others? That's where we are and these young men either don't give a shit, support it, or don't believe it (and with propaganda it's proven head rebuttals with facts don't work well). That's untenable.

To me the democratic party won't find more believers and followers wading into this group, though the dems certainly need to stop ceding ground in the online world. Instead the democratic party will win by engaging those on the sidelines who share their beliefs but are lukewarm, unaffected (currently), unmotivated and disillusioned. That's what the right did with young men.  Dems have to find their way to their additional voters. 

To me, when 35-50% of the electorate doesn't vote, the answer is motivate more of your people to turn out. That is where the messaging needs to be, and it needs to be next gen on social media, youtube, wherever these voters are listening. <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

Secondly, when elected get shit done and brag incessantly about it.  Biden got a LOT done and didn't say a word. And get the Manchins and the Synemas of the world the fuck out.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

a truly liberal platform will appeal to many, many more than this dog shit crap for billionaires that Trump and co trot out. Biden started it but it was a decade or more too late.  <-- THIS IS WHERE THE DEMS SUCK.

Core Democratic Party ideas are >>>>>> popular than the Democratic Party, and that is largely because the Democratic Party has allowed the Republican Party to define them.

The "we won't speak to that massively popular podcast host because he has said nice things about Trump" attitude will only result in more alienation and more election losses.

Young white dudes don't hate the Democratic Party because they hate their ideas.  They hate the Democratic Party because their only knowledge of the Party comes out of the mouths of right wingers.  Until an effort is made to counter this messaging, the end result shouldn't be surprising.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, troph said:

you're doing the same thing you blame others for. your tone sucks, you don't offer solutions, you just point and say see you don't get it.

provide your solution set - how do you communicate with young men that don't share your values?  should you even do it?  my alternative is yes jump in the fray and prevent additional losses, but you can't change someone's values and you shouldn't change yours to attract them because you'll lose others.  and before you say be strategic about it, there is a wide enough gap in values here that laying low on social / culture issues won't be enough, in the end the value gap is so wide it's not something dems can recover with many of these young men.

so what's your strategic solution - how to you get from where we are to where you want to be?  and what is the specific messaging that will resonate with this demographic and bring them to the democratic tent?

The solution for dems is to stop being cunts. The latest iteration being David Hogg, he's fucking right and they are gonna yet again fuck around and find out. 

Dems that don't to their job should be fucking primaried. 

11 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Core Democratic Party ideas are >>>>>> popular than the Democratic Party, and that is largely because the Democratic Party has allowed the Republican Party to define them.

The "we won't speak to that massively popular podcast host because he has said nice things about Trump" attitude will only result in more alienation and more election losses.

Young white dudes don't hate the Democratic Party because they hate their ideas.  They hate the Democratic Party because their only knowledge of the Party comes out of the mouths of right wingers.  Until an effort is made to counter this messaging, the end result shouldn't be surprising.

This 1000x

 

12 minutes ago, troph said:

how is Pete going to connect with young men who are full fledged trumpers at this point?  Hispanics? Black voters?  I mean I think he's fantastic.  But how is that going to work?  I think you are left leaning but with a sympathetic ear for many of these complaints, but I'm afraid most of the bickering among these younger men is not coming from sympathetic guys, but the exact opposite. How does Pete win them over?

The same way he did on the Andrew Schulz podcast. By not being a pussy and mixing it up and going toe to toe with the hard issues and not just pandering.

Dude talked about real projects that were hard as fuck to get done and data driven as transportation secretary and has real world benefits to point to that he helped lead. People want someone who can examine situations, look at the good and bad parts and come up with a plan. 

Everyone else seems like an idealogue or a fucking puppet empty suit who is just doing what their consultants told them will resonate well, Pete just goes out and talks to the problem at hand and his ideology just happens to align better with dems. 

A lot of these great candidates are only Democrats because the two party system.

I'm bull moose, I'm not libertarian or left leaning, I'm a full on progressive who likes to do that with a bunch of checks and balances instead of catastrophic massively changing policy. 

Quote

The platform's main theme was reversing the domination of politics by business interests, which allegedly controlled the Republican and Democratic parties alike. The platform asserted:

To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.[24]

To that end, the platform called for:

Strict limits and disclosure requirements on political campaign contributions

Registration of lobbyists

Recording and publication of Congressional committee proceedings

In the social sphere, the platform called for:

A national health service to include all existing government medical agencies

Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled

Limiting the ability of judges to order injunctions to limit labor strikes

A minimum wage law for women

An eight-hour workday

A federal securities commission

Farm relief

Workers' compensation for work-related injuries

An inheritance tax

The political reforms proposed included:

Women's suffrage

Direct election of senators

Primary elections for state and federal nominations

Easier amending of the United States Constitution[25][26][27]

The platform also urged states to adopt measures for "direct democracy", including:

The recall election (citizens may remove an elected official before the end of his term)

The referendum (citizens may decide on a law by popular vote)

The initiative (citizens may propose a law by petition and enact it by popular vote)

Judicial recall (when a court declares a law unconstitutional, the citizens may override that ruling by popular vote)[28]

Besides these measures, the platform called for reductions in the tariff and limitations on naval armaments by international agreement. The platform also vaguely called for the creation of a national health service, making Roosevelt likely the first major politician to call for health care reform.[29]

The biggest controversy at the convention was over the platform section dealing with trusts and monopolies. The convention approved a strong "trust-busting" plank, but Perkins had it replaced with language that spoke only of "strong National regulation" and "permanent active [Federal] supervision" of major corporations. This retreat shocked reformers like Pinchot, who blamed it on Perkins. The result was a deep split in the new party that was never resolved.[30]

I am big time for legislating away citizens united, and trust busting like a mother fucker while returning a lot of protections back to workers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Moose_Party

Posted
14 minutes ago, troph said:

provide your solution set - how do you communicate with young men that don't share your values?  should you even do it?  my alternative is yes jump in the fray and prevent additional losses, but you can't change someone's values and you shouldn't change yours to attract them because you'll lose others.  and before you say be strategic about it, there is a wide enough gap in values here that laying low on social / culture issues won't be enough, in the end the value gap is so wide it's not something dems can recover with many of these young men.

so what's your strategic solution - how to you get from where we are to where you want to be?  and what is the specific messaging that will resonate with this demographic and bring them to the democratic tent?

I think we need to re-define what healthy masculinity really is for young men. These right-wing losers and incels have focused on a incredibly pathetic version, and it's been working. 

"Gays! Trans! Woke!" - Really? Is it "manly" to bitch and cry and moan about what other people do in their lives? Sounds to me like dudes acting like little tittybaby bitches. Mind your own fucking business. Who gives a shit what other people do if they're not intentionally hurting other people. Being a man is being respectful to everyone. Being a man is not whining and complaining about how other people appear. Being a man is acting confident in your moral compass and defending others. Be a rock, not a spineless shitbag. 

 

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Posted
Just now, troph said:

you're doing the same thing you blame others for. your tone sucks, you don't offer solutions, you just point and say see you don't get it.

provide your solution set - how do you communicate with young men that don't share your values?  should you even do it?  my alternative is yes jump in the fray and prevent additional losses, but you can't change someone's values and you shouldn't change yours to attract them because you'll lose others.  and before you say be strategic about it, there is a wide enough gap in values here that laying low on social / culture issues won't be enough, in the end the value gap is so wide it's not something dems can recover with many of these young men.

so what's your strategic solution - how to you get from where we are to where you want to be?  and what is the specific messaging that will resonate with this demographic and bring them to the democratic tent?

I mean whatever I propose would be considered as overreach but this is existential so I do think it should be done.

I would probably start by addressing things that are pissing them off, stuff like online dating apps was a huge mistake, and should probably be banned, there is no bigger psychological deathtrap than having 9 men chase 1 woman on the app. You could very well point to this as the fall of civilization. Make dating a local only affair, this limits the drowning in the desert vs drowning in the ocean conundrum both genders face, by restricting to local, and social circles only, then social currency matters.

Understand that it is the impressionable part that is the problem younger boys idolize older boys and the troubles are expressed down the line they hear about it and commiserate, even if a 13 year old is not on tinder they are getting the same vibe.

After that ban social media for children, the porn fear was fake but the grifter recruiting fear was real, children can only be exposed to a Nintendo like social media environment, where only "good job" can be expressed and not links to Andrew Tate. Punish social media companies for profiting from hate, (and yes hate from both sides it needs to be fair)

Give kids realistic purpose in life, right now they are expecting a dead job market, no chance to own a home and an endless life of misery. This is where economic leftism is vital. Trump offering dead end manufacturing jobs to these kids are packaged as a return to the 1950s GM jobs that could feed and house a nuclear family, the fact that Kamala can only offer Goldman and Sach's solutions is a poison pill.

 

 



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