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Dallas Cowboys 2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck It All

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

The cowboys are always about the worst odds to take. Vegas knows they don't have to dangle good or great odds to get the hordes of idiot cowboy fan money to flood in. 

Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

Too much deja vu for Jerry.  They really need a corner with this next pick. Otherwise they're going to be starting Jordan Lewis out wide.  If there's a guy there worth jumping up for they should

Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

I read a few different scouting reports compare him to ND version of Jaylon Smith pre injury. Athletic freak who gets sideline to sideline and rushes the passer/makes plays in the backfield at a high

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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10 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Seems like a good signing. Kazee had 7 INTs one year. Hope he can stay healthy.

Falcons fans had a love hate relationship with Kazee. Said he was basically a boom or bust player game to game. Made huge plays for both teams in any given game. I like the move, but we still need to draft a FS 

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46581

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2 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Kyle Pitts reminds me of Evan Engram with a slightly higher ceiling. 

That is pretty cool but would much rather have the best defensive prospect or a top 2 OT in the draft.

Drafting a TE would be a Dallas move. TE is not a need. At all. None. We have Jarwin who will be healthy and Schultz who did well last year. This offense will be fine if Dak is healthy. Defense needs massive help. Go out and draft that.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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20 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Drafting a TE would be a Dallas move. TE is not a need. At all. None. We have Jarwin who will be healthy and Schultz who did well last year. This offense will be fine if Dak is healthy. Defense needs massive help. Go out and draft that.

I agree with you 100% for what it’s worth, but I am curious. Say Surtain is gone at 10 and we can’t find a trade back partner. What’s your move. Because we’re almost certainly going offense in that scenario, whether it’s a tackle or Pitts. I don’t see us taking Micah parsons (although I wouldn’t hate that), and we aren’t going to teach on Horn right there. So what would you want us to do in that scenario? Because that’s absolutely a possibility.

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Drew

Drew 2222

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I'm sorry, you're picking Top 10.  You take the value.  You're drafting for the next 12 years, not 2021. 

If Pitts is your 5th rated player, and you have your 2nd highest OT/CB there and they're ranked 11/12, you take the 5th rated guy. STICK to your board.

I definitely understand the "We have enough offense, don't need a TE" sentiment...and I'd 100% agree in the later first round or 2nd.  But  when you're talking a Top 10 pick you take the TALENT and VALUE over need.

 

And no, I won't be pissed if they pass on him to take Surtain or even an OT(less happy about that).  But the smart teams take the best players, not just need.

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DougO

DougO 5223

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TEs seem like one of the riskiest postions to prioritise early in the draft, so many busts, and so many late round players that end up being good.

I don't see it happening at 10. With the WR corps that has versatility to cover the whole field, and the way Schultz performed with Jarwin returning, it doesn't seem like a pressing need. I'd rather see some more OL help prioritized if they go offense, and there seem to be some good OL prospects in that range.

Good teams usually draft the best talent within a plateau, draft for quality, a guy you are super high on regardless of position when it works out. But I'm not feeling TE in the first round.

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3529

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All the 1st round TEs over the last 10 years: T.J. Hockenson, Noah Fant, Hayden Hurst, O.J. Howard, Evan Engram, Eric Ebron, Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham. Throw in Vernon Davis from 15 years ago. Kellen Winslow Jr from even further back.

Who says yeah sign me up for that over the best or 2nd best defensive player in the draft or the 2nd best offensive line prospect. And the only reason OT might be in the mix is because Tyron Smith hasn't played a full season since 2015.

 

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DougO

DougO 5223

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Tackle should definitely be in the mix. Good left tackles aren't easy to get, even good right tackles aren't. Hell, decent swing tackles aren't even easy to get, apparently. Hit on a great left tackle and put Smith on the block this year or next. Now more than ever the Cowboys need to protect the massive investment they have in their QB.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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13 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

All the 1st round TEs over the last 10 years: T.J. Hockenson, Noah Fant, Hayden Hurst, O.J. Howard, Evan Engram, Eric Ebron, Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham. Throw in Vernon Davis from 15 years ago. Kellen Winslow Jr from even further back.

Who says yeah sign me up for that over the best or 2nd best defensive player in the draft or the 2nd best offensive line prospect. And the only reason OT might be in the mix is because Tyron Smith hasn't played a full season since 2015.

 

That’s what scares me about pitts. They talk about him like he’s the best TE prospect ever, but TEs rarely hit within the first few years. Even Travis kelce wasn’t Travis kelce for the first few years. Just give me slater or Surtain, and let’s take BPA the rest of the way. We need a tackle badly, and there isn’t a team in thr league that doesn’t need good corners. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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43 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

We all know how this will play out. He will be there at 10. If we draft him he will be Evan Engram 2.0. If we pass on him he will be the GOAT at TE and 5 years from now Vic will say we were dumb for not drafting pitts. So just be prepared for that 

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3529

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Pitts is basically a receiver he's not a Gronk, Kelce, or Kittle level blocker. All the best TEs went later than the 1st round mainly due to their being more to the position than a 4.4 40 time.

Think about the Bucs. They drafted a LT #13 overall last draft and the guy started the entire year including during their SB run. Did more in 1 year than OJ Howard has in four years for them.

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3529

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Teams that need a weapon have a tough choice between Jamaar Chase, Devonta Smith, Waddle, and Pitts. Any of those guys could be great.

However when Tyron Smith inevitably gets injured by week 8 (probably retires in a year or two) and his backup is sucking nuts no one is gonna think about our #3 or #4 receiving option. Same thing on defense. If Anthony Brown or Jourdan Lewis are matched up on some of the best receivers in the NFL and giving up big plays...well duh. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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13 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Teams that need a weapon have a tough choice between Jamaar Chase, Devonta Smith, Waddle, and Pitts. Any of those guys could be great.

However when Tyron Smith inevitably gets injured by week 8 (probably retires in a year or two) and his backup is sucking nuts no one is gonna think about our #3 or #4 receiving option. Same thing on defense. If Anthony Brown or Jourdan Lewis are matched up on some of the best receivers in the NFL and giving up big plays...well duh. 

Shoot, even Diggs. He showed a lot of promise but I’ve seen way too many cowboys defenders regress to crown him as a #1 corner. Hypothetically, if you were guaranteeing that Surtain, pitts, and slater were all going to be perennial pro bowlers, I’m taking the corner all day everyday. Who was the last true shut down corner that the cowboys had that everyone feared? Byron Jones had two really nice seasons, but I don’t know how feared he was. Based on how he played in Miami this year, I’m starting to believe it really was just “why would we attack the above average corner when we could just attack the other terrible corners.”

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3529

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Believe Miami had a top 3 pass defense. If Byron Jones is the #2 or #3 guy in your secondary you're in good shape. Only thing that gives me pause is CB prospects are a lot harder to project than OTs. Morris Caliborne was supposed to be the superstar guy but mostly flopped considering his hype. One thing about Surtain is he played with Diggs and even then everyone knew Surtain II was the more talented guy. If Diggs is his floor you have to be interested. 

Slater or Sewell could very well start and be be a top 10 LTs in the NFL for a decade as well. There are definitely OL prospects that flop but less so than other positions.

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C-Man

C-Man 26535

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:07 PM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Seems like a good signing. Kazee had 7 INTs one year. Hope he can stay healthy.

Hey, I think the Cowboys might've had 7 INTs one year. Combined.

 

20 hours ago, Drew said:

I'm sorry, you're picking Top 10.  You take the value.  You're drafting for the next 12 years, not 2021. 

If Pitts is your 5th rated player, and you have your 2nd highest OT/CB there and they're ranked 11/12, you take the 5th rated guy. STICK to your board.

I definitely understand the "We have enough offense, don't need a TE" sentiment...and I'd 100% agree in the later first round or 2nd.  But  when you're talking a Top 10 pick you take the TALENT and VALUE over need.

 

And no, I won't be pissed if they pass on him to take Surtain or even an OT(less happy about that).  But the smart teams take the best players, not just need.

LOL if you think Jerruh is drafting for the next 12 years. He thinks he's "this close" to contending. If that's true, you definitely draft for need and right now the Cowboys don't NEED a tight end.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 51914

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Yeah big caveat to my post is I do t know the quality of depth at cb that you could do the opposite if surtain isn’t there to take, or trade down 10 spots to get an extra top 60 pick and still come away with a good cb and OT with 20 and a 2nd. 
 

if a coveted qb is still there at 10 then maybe it becomes a valuable pick that can command some real capital in a trade. 

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Loch Ness Monster

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Could literally have the fear of missing out on any of the top four receiving prospects. Cowboy fans are too hung up on Pitts having TE next to his name rather than WR. 

Thing I like most about Surtain II other than the fact he was the #1 CB in the nation in high school, started as a true freshman at Alabama, became SEC defensive player of the year, has three years of tape unlike some of the opt out guys, and killed his pro day is the fact he turns his head and finds the football. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3851

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6 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pitts is basically a receiver he's not a Gronk, Kelce, or Kittle level blocker. All the best TEs went later than the 1st round mainly due to their being more to the position than a 4.4 40 time.

Think about the Bucs. They drafted a LT #13 overall last draft and the guy started the entire year including during their SB run. Did more in 1 year than OJ Howard has in four years for them.

This is correct.  It's almost folly to consider him a TE.  He's a TE with WR skills and catch radius.  He's like Mike Evans more than like Vernon Davis or OJ Howard.  All of that said, I'd still rather have one of the OTs or Surtain than Pitts.  But whoever gets Pitts is going to have a serious playmaker at TE.  We have jags, but Pitts has the potential to be a major difference maker.  The other issue with Pitts is you'd be forced to do something with Gallup or maybe Cooper, although they're pushing more money with Cooper.

 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is correct.  It's almost folly to consider him a TE.  He's a TE with WR skills and catch radius.  He's like Mike Evans more than like Vernon Davis or OJ Howard.  All of that said, I'd still rather have one of the OTs or Surtain than Pitts.  But whoever gets Pitts is going to have a serious playmaker at TE.  We have jags, but Pitts has the potential to be a major difference maker.  The other issue with Pitts is you'd be forced to do something with Gallup or maybe Cooper, although they're pushing more money with Cooper.

 

If I was playing devils advocate, I’d say a few things.

1. You guys are talking about pitts like he’s a liability as a blocker. He’s not. He’s a legit TE. Not a dominant George kittle type blocker, but an adequate blocker.

2. You aren’t going to be forced to do shit with Gallup. Gallup is as good as gone after this year. Unless he just feels like being a cowboy, he’s absolutely going to make more money on the open market than what we’re going to be willing to pay him.

3. Shultz is also in a contract year if I’m not mistaken. We’ll probably resign him but that’s no guarantee. Blake Jarwin just tore his ACL. A big part of what makes Jarwin intriguing is his athleticism. Is that hurt by the knee injury?

 

But with all that being said, just fucking draft the tackle or the corner. And if both happen to be there, take whichever one you have a better grade on. I agree that taking pitts would be dumb. 

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futureman

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40 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

If Jamaar Chase or Devonta Smith is there maybe BPA says take those guys. There are comparable talent guys at actual positions of need though.

Loved the CeeDee lamb pick. At some point I would rather not have backup guys starting on our defense though. 

it would be hard to pass on chase. and we could immediately trade gallup as well. 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 21941

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This would be one of those drafts where you would wish you had three picks in the first two rounds. Or four. So many game changers. Since the Cowboys now have a legit DC I am really hoping we spend our capital on Defense and then possibly OL. Curious to know how quickly the QBs will all go also. 
 

I would prefer to get Surtain if possible and then maybe Ossai if possible. But that’s a pipe dream. Can’t imagine Pitts making it to pick ten but there are so many QBs and I think there will be some damn good choices where the Cowboys pick and probably surprising ones. Hoping for a good draft. 
 

Teams literally cannot afford to have a shitty draft. I think the first two rounds will be telling for sure. 

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Hate

Hate 20037

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The 10 pick could hold some value if a team like the Bears want to move up to get one of the remaining QB's.  The first three picks (barring a trade) will end up being QB's.  Carolina may be in a better position to trade down, but they need a QB and may not want to move. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48688

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15 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

 

May be some bust potential here... watching the first 10yds, Pitts is lumbering with a lot of side to side movement.

Not seeing Pitts going to Dallas at #10 pick, but Jerry has made bigger bone-headed draft selections than this before... 😬

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48688

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52 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Don’t understand how the side to side movement = bust. That means he’s actually faster than 4.44.

Would be interested to review his past high school and college injury history.   How he runs might be an indication of a shorter career with a higher possibility of injuries...

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3851

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13 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

If I was playing devils advocate, I’d say a few things.

1. You guys are talking about pitts like he’s a liability as a blocker. He’s not. He’s a legit TE. Not a dominant George kittle type blocker, but an adequate blocker.

2. You aren’t going to be forced to do shit with Gallup. Gallup is as good as gone after this year. Unless he just feels like being a cowboy, he’s absolutely going to make more money on the open market than what we’re going to be willing to pay him.

3. Shultz is also in a contract year if I’m not mistaken. We’ll probably resign him but that’s no guarantee. Blake Jarwin just tore his ACL. A big part of what makes Jarwin intriguing is his athleticism. Is that hurt by the knee injury?

 

But with all that being said, just fucking draft the tackle or the corner. And if both happen to be there, take whichever one you have a better grade on. I agree that taking pitts would be dumb. 

1.  Who's you guys?  I never said anything about his blocking.

2.  With Lamb on his rookie deal, there is a scenario where you can re-sign Gallup and then let Amari go after 2021 or 22 and be left with Lamb and Gallup.  Or restructure Cooper, pushing out money to the 23/24 season and still re-sign Gallup.  With Pitts on a top 10 rookie deal, that idea becomes moot.  There's certainly still a chance Gallup returns, but I would agree it's more likely he does go in UFA if Cooper continues to be very productive.

3.  I agree, hence I said our guys are JAGs.  Pitts would be a fantastic upgrade at the position.  Someone references it but the last 6 SB contestants had Kelce, Kittle, Gronk and Ertz.  Now, to other's point, taking TE's top 10 has not been of value to invest that capital in, but if you see Pitts has more of a unicorn, a inline WR who can block a little but a matchup mismatch then I can see teams taking him. 

There's really only one scenario I see where it's a strong likelihood Pitts lands in Dallas.  The 5 QBs go in the top 9 along with Chase, the two OT's, and Surtain.  That leaves Dallas at 10 with a choice of Pitts, I guess Parsons, WRs, Darrisaw or finding a trade partner who wants to go up and get one of those guys (most likely Pitts, maybe Waddle). I could see Pitts being the selection if they don't like the value offered to move down.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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20 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

1.  Who's you guys?  I never said anything about his blocking.

2.  With Lamb on his rookie deal, there is a scenario where you can re-sign Gallup and then let Amari go after 2021 or 22 and be left with Lamb and Gallup.  Or restructure Cooper, pushing out money to the 23/24 season and still re-sign Gallup.  With Pitts on a top 10 rookie deal, that idea becomes moot.  There's certainly still a chance Gallup returns, but I would agree it's more likely he does go in UFA if Cooper continues to be very productive.

3.  I agree, hence I said our guys are JAGs.  Pitts would be a fantastic upgrade at the position.  Someone references it but the last 6 SB contestants had Kelce, Kittle, Gronk and Ertz.  Now, to other's point, taking TE's top 10 has not been of value to invest that capital in, but if you see Pitts has more of a unicorn, a inline WR who can block a little but a matchup mismatch then I can see teams taking him. 

There's really only one scenario I see where it's a strong likelihood Pitts lands in Dallas.  The 5 QBs go in the top 9 along with Chase, the two OT's, and Surtain.  That leaves Dallas at 10 with a choice of Pitts, I guess Parsons, WRs, Darrisaw or finding a trade partner who wants to go up and get one of those guys (most likely Pitts, maybe Waddle). I could see Pitts being the selection if they don't like the value offered to move down.

This was the exact scenario was trying to lay out for Vic. You almost have to take pitts there. I highly doubt we’re going to take parsons in that scenario. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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7 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Will Gallup only give us a 4th round compensatory pick if he walks? 

Kinda crazy the first defensive player might not be drafted until 10th overall. Not a lot of game changers on that side of the ball at least as far as hype goes.

I keep hearing “don’t be surprised if a team trades up in front of Dallas to draft Surtain”. It would make a lot of sense.

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