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Posted

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-862397

Quote

The army had posted the opening times on Palestinian Facebook groups. Drones circled overhead, broadcasting in Arabic: “The site will open at 9 a.m. Do not approach.” “Y” says the instructions were clear, constant, and public. 

Around 2 a.m., a small team was sent to a forward position one kilometer from the corridor, at a junction of several dirt paths. Their role was to intercept any suspicious movement before it reached the aid zone. 

At approximately 4:30 a.m., four Gazan men came into view. Voices echoed in the dark. Then came chants of “Allahu Akbar.” 

“That’s when it became obvious; this wasn’t just a spontaneous crowd,” he says. “It was coordinated.” 

The four Gazan men emerged from behind a building. A warning shot was fired ten meters in front of them. They kept running. “Then four became a hundred. Then a thousand. All adult men. No women. No children. Just men running straight at us.” 

The soldiers were surrounded on three sides, with the food trucks behind them. “We heard Kalashnikov fire from behind the crowd. We didn’t see who fired it, but we heard it clearly,” he says. 

With the mass approaching within 100 meters, a standing order was given: defend the position. “Nothing stopped them, not the drones, not the megaphones, not flash grenades or warning shots. In the end, we fired. There was no other choice.” 

“Hamas had two goals,” he says. “Steal the food and provoke a tragedy they could film.” According to “Y,” the same group had tried to storm the site at 10 p.m. and again at 2 a.m. “They came back stronger. More people. More vehicles. Gunfire behind them. They knew what they were doing.” 

“Y” describes intense restrictions placed on Israeli soldiers guarding the corridor. “We weren’t allowed to engage unless it was life-threatening. That’s how Hamas exploited it. They knew we had limits. They sent the crowd ahead like a shield. And when things exploded, the cameras were already rolling.” 

The moral complexity, he says, is unbearable. “We had to choose between protecting the mission and being slaughtered on a rooftop. And then we get called war criminals.” 

What angers him most is how quickly the story was rewritten. “By midday, headlines were saying we shot starving civilians. That’s not what happened. It wasn’t a line for food. It was a violent attempt to overrun the corridor.” 

Telegram channels later published the names of the dead. “All adult males. No women. No children.” 

 

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Posted

image.thumb.png.fd70ecf9f68df158df22e07ace46ccd0.png
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/28/world/middleeast/israel-genocide-gaza-rights-groups.html

Two of Israel’s best-known human rights groups said Monday that Israel was committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, adding fuel to a passionately fought international debate over whether the death and destruction there have crossed a moral red line.

The two groups were B’Tselem, a rights monitor that documents the effects of Israeli policies on Palestinians, and Physicians for Human Rights — Israel. Their announcement was the first time major Israeli rights groups have publicly concluded that the Gaza war is a genocide, an assessment previously reached by some organizations like Amnesty International.

In a report titled “Our Genocide,” B’Tselem cited the devastating effects of Israel’s war on ordinary Palestinians to support their claim: the killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza; the razing of huge areas of Palestinian cities; the forced displacement of nearly all of Gaza’s two million people; the restriction of food and other vital supplies.

All together, the Israeli campaign has amounted to “coordinated action to intentionally destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip,” the organization wrote. “In other words: Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”

The debate over whether the war in Gaza constitutes genocide has also played out at the International Court of Justice, where South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel. The court has yet to rule on the matter.

The office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not immediately comment. Speaking at the International Court of Justice in January 2024, Tal Becker, a member of Israel’s legal defense, said that Israel was fighting Hamas, not targeting Palestinians wholesale.

“What Israel seeks by operating in Gaza is not to destroy a people, but to protect a people, its people, who are under attack on multiple fronts, and to do so in accordance with the law,” Mr. Becker told the court.

Genocide has a specific definition in international law: particular acts carried out with intent to destroy a group in whole or in part. The accusation hits a painful nerve for Israel, a state founded after Nazi Germany’s attempt to exterminate European Jewry.

Israel vigorously denies that its war against Hamas in Gaza amounts to genocide, countering that Hamas seeks to destroy the Jewish state. Israeli officials have also pointed to the Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7, 2023, in which 1,200 people were killed, mostly civilians, which prompted the devastating Israeli response.

The subsequent Israeli bombing campaign and ground offensive in Gaza have killed more than 59,000 people, including thousands of children, according to the Gazan health ministry. That toll does not distinguish between civilians and combatants; at one point, the Israeli military chief said nearly 20,000 Hamas fighters had been killed in the conflict, without providing evidence.

Yuli Novak, the director of B’Tselem, said that she was not seeking to minimize the “horrific attack” that Hamas had perpetrated on Oct. 7. But the assault had prompted an Israeli assault on Palestinian life in Gaza that had spiraled into genocide, she said.

“The report we are publishing today is one we never imagined we would have to write,” Ms. Novak said at a news conference in Jerusalem. “But in recent months, we have been witnessing a reality that has left us no choice but to acknowledge the truth.”

As part of the case for genocide, international law requires that there be proof of intent. In the report on Monday, B’Tselem cited a string of dehumanizing remarks by Israeli government officials, such as a statement by Yoav Gallant, a former defense minister, that Israel was fighting “human animals” in Gaza. Some Israeli politicians have also said that their goal is to drive the remaining Palestinians out of Gaza.

Israeli leaders argue that the country has adhered to humanitarian law, that generals work closely with legal advisers who ensure compliance with standards, and that Israel has gone above and beyond what other Western countries have done in similar situations. Mr. Netanyahu has at times distanced himself from the most extreme statements made by his political allies.

But for the vast majority of Gazan civilians, the past 22 months have been a desperate attempt to survive constant Israeli bombardment, find enough food and clean water for their families, and flee amid Israeli warnings to immediately evacuate or risk being killed. The growing number of Gazans now starving has contributed to rising criticism of Israel by some of its longtime allies.

Israeli military officials often attributed the deadly impact of the war on Palestinians to Hamas’s strategy of fighting its insurgency by hiding among civilians. The Israeli rights groups said that alone could not explain the rampant death and destruction in Gaza.

“Israel’s claim that Hamas fighters or members of other armed Palestinian groups were present in medical or civilian facilities, frequently without providing any evidence, cannot justify or explain such widespread, systematic destruction,” B’Tselem wrote.

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Posted
8 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

IDF reservist has a different opinion, what a shock.

 

Who else would have a first-hand account? Israeli soldiers, Hamas, and Palestinians. All could be accused of having prejudices.

 

I thought you blocked me? Feel free to do it again.

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Posted
8 hours ago, bolverk said:

image.thumb.png.fd70ecf9f68df158df22e07ace46ccd0.png
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/28/world/middleeast/israel-genocide-gaza-rights-groups.html

Two of Israel’s best-known human rights groups said Monday that Israel was committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, adding fuel to a passionately fought international debate over whether the death and destruction there have crossed a moral red line.

The two groups were B’Tselem, a rights monitor that documents the effects of Israeli policies on Palestinians, and Physicians for Human Rights — Israel. Their announcement was the first time major Israeli rights groups have publicly concluded that the Gaza war is a genocide, an assessment previously reached by some organizations like Amnesty International.

In a report titled “Our Genocide,” B’Tselem cited the devastating effects of Israel’s war on ordinary Palestinians to support their claim: the killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza; the razing of huge areas of Palestinian cities; the forced displacement of nearly all of Gaza’s two million people; the restriction of food and other vital supplies.

All together, the Israeli campaign has amounted to “coordinated action to intentionally destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip,” the organization wrote. “In other words: Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”

The debate over whether the war in Gaza constitutes genocide has also played out at the International Court of Justice, where South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel. The court has yet to rule on the matter.

The office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not immediately comment. Speaking at the International Court of Justice in January 2024, Tal Becker, a member of Israel’s legal defense, said that Israel was fighting Hamas, not targeting Palestinians wholesale.

“What Israel seeks by operating in Gaza is not to destroy a people, but to protect a people, its people, who are under attack on multiple fronts, and to do so in accordance with the law,” Mr. Becker told the court.

Genocide has a specific definition in international law: particular acts carried out with intent to destroy a group in whole or in part. The accusation hits a painful nerve for Israel, a state founded after Nazi Germany’s attempt to exterminate European Jewry.

Israel vigorously denies that its war against Hamas in Gaza amounts to genocide, countering that Hamas seeks to destroy the Jewish state. Israeli officials have also pointed to the Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7, 2023, in which 1,200 people were killed, mostly civilians, which prompted the devastating Israeli response.

The subsequent Israeli bombing campaign and ground offensive in Gaza have killed more than 59,000 people, including thousands of children, according to the Gazan health ministry. That toll does not distinguish between civilians and combatants; at one point, the Israeli military chief said nearly 20,000 Hamas fighters had been killed in the conflict, without providing evidence.

Yuli Novak, the director of B’Tselem, said that she was not seeking to minimize the “horrific attack” that Hamas had perpetrated on Oct. 7. But the assault had prompted an Israeli assault on Palestinian life in Gaza that had spiraled into genocide, she said.

“The report we are publishing today is one we never imagined we would have to write,” Ms. Novak said at a news conference in Jerusalem. “But in recent months, we have been witnessing a reality that has left us no choice but to acknowledge the truth.”

As part of the case for genocide, international law requires that there be proof of intent. In the report on Monday, B’Tselem cited a string of dehumanizing remarks by Israeli government officials, such as a statement by Yoav Gallant, a former defense minister, that Israel was fighting “human animals” in Gaza. Some Israeli politicians have also said that their goal is to drive the remaining Palestinians out of Gaza.

Israeli leaders argue that the country has adhered to humanitarian law, that generals work closely with legal advisers who ensure compliance with standards, and that Israel has gone above and beyond what other Western countries have done in similar situations. Mr. Netanyahu has at times distanced himself from the most extreme statements made by his political allies.

But for the vast majority of Gazan civilians, the past 22 months have been a desperate attempt to survive constant Israeli bombardment, find enough food and clean water for their families, and flee amid Israeli warnings to immediately evacuate or risk being killed. The growing number of Gazans now starving has contributed to rising criticism of Israel by some of its longtime allies.

Israeli military officials often attributed the deadly impact of the war on Palestinians to Hamas’s strategy of fighting its insurgency by hiding among civilians. The Israeli rights groups said that alone could not explain the rampant death and destruction in Gaza.

“Israel’s claim that Hamas fighters or members of other armed Palestinian groups were present in medical or civilian facilities, frequently without providing any evidence, cannot justify or explain such widespread, systematic destruction,” B’Tselem wrote.

Hey "leading Israeli Rights groups," get out of my newspaper and take it to the CR.

Posted

https://david-collier.com/the-truth-behind-the-viral-gaza-famine-photo/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

Quote

Muhammad Zakariya Ayyoub al-Matouq /Mutawwaq (was born with serious genetic disorders. He has needed specialist medical supplements since birth. Like previous examples of the media using ‘starving children’ going back to summer 2024 – the image is of a child suffering underlying (and hidden) health issues.

A medical report issued in May 2025 by the Basma Association for Relief in Gaza states that Mohammed, has been diagnosed with cerebral palsy – a group of neurological disorders affecting movement, muscle tone, and posture. The report notes that Mohammed suffers from hypoxemia (low oxygen in the blood), possibly linked to a suspected genetic disorder inherited in an ‘autosomal recessive pattern.’

Quote

The BBC – as per usual went a step further. The BBC *spoke* to his mother, Huda Yassin Al-Matouq / Mutawwaq – and produced a 64 second interview that somehow failed to disclose that Mohammed was a child born with genetic problems and complex medical dependencies. Even in the BBC video, the mother alludes to this – referencing a prolonged struggle, including physiotherapy sessions that had helped him stand. The curvature of the spine another key clue tying the child to a CP diagnosis. But the BBC narrator never addresses this – leaving the audience to believe the heartbreaking physical condition we are seeing is the result of widespread famine.

This is not journalism. This is the UK’s state media deliberately pushing a deceptive narrative that only serves to benefit Hamas and create fake news.

 

This guy is a journalist exposing antisemitism, so feel free to ignore his research, and freely absorb other narratives.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Also, the UN won't accept security from Israel for VERY obvious reasons. Let's see if you can figure them out.

 

Then why are they blaming Israel for not providing security when their trucks get looted by "uNiDeNtiFiEd aRmEd pErPetRaToRs"?

I thought you blocked me?

Edited by MagicSoccerSpray
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Posted
11 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Then why are they blaming Israel for not providing security when their trucks get looted by "uNiDeNtiFiEd aRmEd pErPetRaToRs"?

I thought you blocked me?

Did you even watch the video? The answer to your question is very obvious.

Yeah. I did. And then I unblocked you. What a mystery!!!!!

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Posted

Go thread shit somewhere else soccer spray

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-israeli-military-offensive-gaza-surpasses-60000-2025-07-29/

Quote

JERUSALEM, July 29 (Reuters) - Israel's military offensive on the Gaza Strip has killed at least 60,000 Palestinians since Oct. 7, 2023, the enclave's health ministry said, a conflict that has devastated the coastal territory and triggered a humanitarian crisis.
Most of the Palestinians killed are civilians according to the enclave's health authorities.
The ministry said on Tuesday that the number of injured is 145,870, while thousands remain missing under the rubble of destroyed buildings and areas.
The war began after Gaza's dominant Palestinian militant group Hamas carried out a cross-border attack on southern Israel, killing around 1,200 people and taking more than 250 hostages, according to Israeli authorities.
Israel's subsequent air and ground campaign has leveled entire neighbourhoods in Gaza, displaced most of the population of 2.3 million, and pushed the enclave to the brink of famine, according to the United Nations.
Israel says its operations are aimed at dismantling Hamas' military capabilities and securing the release of hostages.
The military says it has killed thousands of Hamas fighters in Gaza and destroyed hundreds of kilometers of tunnels used by the militants.

 

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Posted

https://archive.ph/G1pnW

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/palestinian-awdah-hathaleen-oscar-winning-no-other-land-killed-in-west-bank

Awdah Hathaleen, a Palestinian activist and journalist who helped make the Oscar-winning documentary No Other Land, has been killed during an attack by Israeli settlers in the south Hebron hills.

The attack on Monday was captured on video, which appears to show an Israeli settler, Yinon Levi, who was put under sanctions by the US president, Joe Biden, then removed from the sanctions list by Donald Trump, firing his gun wildly at the time of the killing.

He was arrested later by Israeli police for questioning, though no charges have been filed against him.

Yinon Levy in the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court, today

(pictured: Yinon Levy in the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court, today. Sourced from haaretz.co.il)

 

To top things off, Odeh's family - the murder victims - are being held in jail while the murderer is in house arrest

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Posted
6 hours ago, Captainant said:

Israel's military offensive on the Gaza Strip has killed at least 60,000 Palestinians since Oct. 7, 2023, the enclave's health ministry said

 

Hamas' health ministry

 

17 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Btselem is basically unimpeachable. I’ve never seen a compelling piece that contradicts their reporting. 

 

I'm not surprised an organization who's self-description is :

 

Quote

"Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea." 

 

... Would be thought of as "unimpeachable" by you. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Hamas' health ministry

This is just plain racism.

It's the Palastinian Ministry of Health - Gaza. Is anyone who lives there "Hamas" by default?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry

 

There's even been academic journalism verifying that their casualty numbers haven't been inflated so far.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext

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Posted (edited)

Even Israeli intelligence uses the GHM's figures. Literally just open racism.

Not only that, but most international experts and human rights organizations consider that their numbers are likely an undercount.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

I'm not surprised an organization who's self-description is :

Quote

"Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea." 

... Would be thought of as "unimpeachable" by you. 

Imagine being such a stupid piece of shit that that quote is bad and scary to you.

Human rights, democracy, liberty, and equality for all people. TERRIFYING.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

I'm not surprised an organization who's self-description is :

 

 

... Would be thought of as "unimpeachable" by you. 

You are welcome to provide any compelling evidence that contradicts their reporting. I see nothing in that self description that I disagree strongly with. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

"Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea." 

 

That quote barely makes any sense: B’Tselem strives to end this regime (Israel’s regime). It is the only way forward for both Palestinian and Israeli. 

 

The only way to interpret it is that any remaining Israelis needs to be under Palestinian rule. And they (B’Tselem) thinks that is the way forward for Israelis. 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

That quote barely makes any sense: B’Tselem strives to end this regime (Israel’s regime). It is the only way forward for both Palestinian and Israeli. 

 

The only way to interpret it is that any remaining Israelis needs to be under Palestinian rule. And they (B’Tselem) thinks that is the way forward for Israelis. 

your confusion stems from the regime they are referring to not being the nation of israel...but instead the political regime led by n'yahu and his wing of extremists.

the way you are interpreting it would be the same as interpreting me saying "i want to end the regime of corruption and incompetence led by donald trump from power in the united states" as "i want to end the existence of the united states and mexico should be in charge."

Posted

I don’t know if you are a racist or not. That wasn’t my angle. I do know that you are a fucking idiot monkey that lacks the ability to discuss this subject objectively. And you seem lol with ethnic cleansing and apartheid so you should probably be excluded from civil society. 

Posted
50 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Define racism in this context, and then show me where Israeli intelligence uses Hamas' casualty figures.

 

 

I'm, not surprised that "international experts" and "human rights organizations" would do so, anymore than I would be surprised that labor organizations find fault with management, gender studies majors would find the patriarchy wherever they look, or that the ADL would find antisemitism in this thread... Oops!

 

 

Watch your mouth Fuck-o, when I need some palestinian dicks sucked, or some ditches dug, I'll ask you to chime in.

It's not the declaration of beliefs or rights that are "scary", it's the proud and open call for dissolution of the Jewish state, and the absolving of the Palestinians culpability for the current situation. How did you not immediately see that?

 

 

How is it "Racism!1!!"?

The Palestinian Ministry of Health is run, and controlled by, Hamas... just like every other "government" ministry in Gaza. So yes, every declaration, statement, video, or photo, that comes out of the Ministry, is approved and manipulated by Hamas. How do you not realize this?

It’s absolutely overseen by Hamas. Racism, lulz. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Hitch said:

It’s absolutely overseen by Hamas. Racism, lulz. 

The racism is saying that anything that comes out of there is OBVIOUSLY false. I even shared supporting evidence from a reputable academic journal that showed using data science they are almost certainly NOT inflating casualty numbers, and probably under reporting them.

It's real fucked up to dismiss a genocide just because you're happy about Muslims getting murdered

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sidis said:

your confusion stems from the regime they are referring to not being the nation of israel...but instead the political regime led by n'yahu and his wing of extremists.

the way you are interpreting it would be the same as interpreting me saying "i want to end the regime of corruption and incompetence led by donald trump from power in the united states" as "i want to end the existence of the united states and mexico should be in charge."

"Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea." 

You may be right. Looking at their webpage, it is unclear whether they are talking about the last 2 years or many years and hence many regimes. The statement is on almost every page of their website. 

Found what I was looking for: https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem

Since B’Tselem’s inception in 1989, we have been documenting, researching and publishing statistics, testimonies, video footage, position papers and reports on human rights violations committed by Israel in the Occupied Territories. The initial mandate we took upon ourselves focused on the occupation regime in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and in the Gaza Strip. However, over the years, it has become clear that the concept of two parallel regimes operating between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River – a permanent democracy west of the Green Line and a temporary military occupation to the east of it – is divorced from reality. The entire area that Israel controls is ruled by a single apartheid regime, governing the lives of all people living in it and operating according to one organizing principle: establishing and perpetuating the control of one group of people – Jews – over another – Palestinians – through laws, practices and state violence.

 

So they are looking at all Israeli regimes. I assume that it wants a central government without borders although it never states as much. Personally, I think that thought is divorced from reality. It has never worked in the past and with the deep seated hate between so many people, getting it to work in the future is ... unlikely. 

I guess a final interpretation is if they are speaking metaphorically when they state, "B’Tselem strives to end this regime". Perhaps they mean simply to end apartheid and occupation rather than ending the physical regime. That seems far-fetched though considering the statement seems to be the organization's mission statement. No one writes a mission statement as a metaphorical. 

 

Edited by Bevo
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Posted (edited)

All modern israeli political regimes have advanced an ethnostate apartheid. It’s called zionism guys. It’s the problem. European guilt is blinding for many of yall. 

Edited by Anastasis
Posted
2 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Define racism in this context, and then show me where Israeli intelligence uses Hamas' casualty figures.

 

 

I'm, not surprised that "international experts" and "human rights organizations" would do so, anymore than I would be surprised that labor organizations find fault with management, gender studies majors would find the patriarchy wherever they look, or that the ADL would find antisemitism in this thread... Oops!

 

 

Watch your mouth Fuck-o, when I need some palestinian dicks sucked, or some ditches dug, I'll ask you to chime in.

It's not the declaration of beliefs or rights that are "scary", it's the proud and open call for dissolution of the Jewish state, and the absolving of the Palestinians culpability for the current situation. How did you not immediately see that?

 

 

How is it "Racism!1!!"?

The Palestinian Ministry of Health is run, and controlled by, Hamas... just like every other "government" ministry in Gaza. So yes, every declaration, statement, video, or photo, that comes out of the Ministry, is approved and manipulated by Hamas. How do you not realize this?

Goddamn you are stupid. I mean I’m surprised you earn enough money to have internet access. 

Posted
4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

All modern israeli political regimes have advanced an ethnostate apartheid. It’s called zionism guys. It’s the problem. European guilt is blinding for many of yall. 

Zionism is a movement for a return to the Jewish homeland where Jews could be safe away from the anti-semitism Jews experienced throughout the middle east, europe, south america, russia and other places. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2025 at 6:16 AM, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Telegram channels later published the names of the dead. “All adult males. No women. No children.” 

What does this mean? A social media site has posters, threads about(?), posting the vetted names of the dead? Sounds legit.

image.jpeg.d57dce01e7f50014aeb918778b2f2edf.jpeg

Edited by Willfully Horn
Posted

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/qatar-saudi-arabia-egypt-sign-declaration-calling-for-hamas-to-disarm-leave-gaza-at-un-2-state-confab/

 

Quote

Arab countries, including Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, have signed onto a statement calling for Hamas to disarm and end its rule of Gaza, in a bid to end the devastating war in the Palestinian territory.

Seventeen countries, plus the European Union and Arab League, are throwing their weight behind a seven-page text — obtained by The Times of Israel — agreed at a United Nations conference on reviving the two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Bevo said:

Zionism is a movement for a return to the Jewish homeland where Jews could be safe away from the anti-semitism Jews experienced throughout the middle east, europe, south america, russia and other places. 

Yes, it sounds like a great and noble idea (and, of course, in some ways it was, at least in the beginning) until you consider the fact that it's not just their homeland and that the act of creating Israel began with the mass killings and expulsion of people who also consider it their homeland, and certainly had nothing to do with the Holocaust or the pogroms that largely took place in the Western world. These people have never been allowed to return, and those who remain have lived under brutal apartheid ever since.

Today, in reality and in practice, Zionism is nothing more than an ethno-religious supremacist, exterminationist ideology. You don't have to take my word for it, you can find plenty of statements from Israeli leaders that outright confirm this and what they want to do.  They have taken a lesson from what the Nazis did to European Jews and are applying it in real time.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Watch your mouth Fuck-o, when I need some palestinian dicks sucked, or some ditches dug, I'll ask you to chime in.

Also lol'ing at this weirdo projecting his weird sex fantasies on me for the dozenth time in this thread. 

Not to mention the subtle racist dig at me in the same vein as what Rex was doing before he self immolated.

Definitely not completely unhinged.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted (edited)

"There are two peoples living between the river and the sea, not one, and they are entitled to separate states in which each of these peoples enjoys the full panoply of civil and human rights."

Britain and France Have Pledged to Recognize a Palestinian State. What Would It Mean?
The announcements reflect deep frustrations with Israel’s conduct in Gaza and in the occupied West Bank, experts say.

Britain on Tuesday said it would recognize a Palestinian state if Israel did not reach a cease-fire agreement on the war in Gaza by September. Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s move followed France’s announcement last week that it would officially acknowledge Palestine statehood.

Both announcements reflect the deep frustrations by both nations with Israel’s conduct of the war in Gaza, analysts say, which has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and left a population of about two million in a state of extreme privation and hunger.

They also came in response to Israel’s actions in the occupied West Bank: Its military activity there has displaced Palestinians en masse this year, settlement plans have expanded, and violence by settlers against Palestinians has risen since the Hamas-led Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel ignited the war. That assault killed about 1,200 people and led to the abduction of about 250 others to Gaza.

The announcements raise questions about what the recognition of a Palestinian state would mean and what it can actually do.

Quote

 

What is a state?
The criteria for statehood were laid out in an international treaty in 1933.

They include four elements: a permanent population, defined territorial boundaries, a government and an ability to conduct international affairs.

Recognition is an official acknowledgment that a would-be state broadly meets those conditions. It can occur even if an element is in dispute, including territorial boundaries.

Like all legal questions, “interpretation matters,” said Zinaida Miller, a professor of law and international affairs at Northeastern University.

The criteria for recognizing a Palestinian state have been met at a basic level, many experts on international law say.

A permanent population and land exist. The borders, while disputed, are broadly understood to be in Israeli-occupied territories, including the West Bank and Gaza, which was seized in 1967 in a war with a coalition of Arab states; as well as East Jerusalem, which Israel has effectively annexed.

The Palestinian Authority is a government body that administers part of the West Bank and represents Palestinians. Its creation was authorized by the Palestine Liberation Organization, which represents Palestinians internationally.

While there are limits to what the Palestinian Authority can do, given the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Hamas’s control of Gaza, foreign recognition of a Palestinian state would mean the establishment of direct diplomatic contact between the Authority and the recognizing nation.

Recognition would also send diplomatic and political messages. It would acknowledge the Palestinian right to self-determination and reject the positions and actions of the Israeli government that undermine that right, Ms. Miller said.

‘A basis for added pressure.’
A major consequence of recognizing Palestinian statehood is that it provides a basis for “a complete revision of bilateral relations with Israel,” said Ardi Imseis, an associate professor at Queen’s University Faculty of Law in Ontario and a former United Nations official.

A country that recognizes Palestine has to review agreements with Israel to make sure they do not violate its obligations to the Palestinian state. This would include political and territorial integrity, as well as economic, cultural, social and civil relations, he said.

For example, if an aspect of trade aids or assists Israel in violation of the rights of a Palestinian state, then the recognizing nation would have to cease that exchange.

“Practically speaking, recognition would provide a basis for added pressure to be brought to bear by civil society and lawmakers in the recognizing state” to change policies and align them with other requirements, Mr. Imseis said.

A recognizing nation would not have to stop all trade with Israel, said Paul Reichler, a lawyer who represents sovereign states and has argued for the state of Palestine at the International Court of Justice.

But if, for example, a country that recognizes a state of Palestine imports agricultural products from farms belonging to settlers in occupied territories, those agreements would be aiding and abetting the commission of a wrongful act, he said.

International law experts note that an advisory ruling from the International Court of Justice last year concluded, among other things, that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories violated a prohibition on territorial conquest.

A U.N. majority for recognition already exists.
Most countries in the United Nations — 147 out of 193 — already recognize a Palestinian state.

Britain and France would be joining them, and their position has extra heft because they are permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, with the power to veto any substantive Council resolution, including on the admission of new member states.

The two countries would be bolstering the stance taken by most other nations and sending a political message, but their shift would also have a practical effect. They would join China and Russia in recognizing a Palestinian state and leave the United States as the sole permanent member of the Security Council with veto power that is holding out.

The state of Palestine currently has observer status at the U.N., and that will not change if the United States maintains its opposition to full membership.

What is the goal of recognition?
It is part of a political, diplomatic and legal push to reach a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict despite resistance from Israel’s current government.

“There are two peoples living between the river and the sea, not one, and they are entitled to separate states in which each of these peoples enjoys the full panoply of civil and human rights,” Mr. Reichler said.

“The only solution is two states, and it so happens that is what international law requires and is reflected in U.N. resolutions and in determinations of the I.C.J.,” he said.

Although the declarations of Palestinian statehood may appear symbolic, “small steps” like recognition “make a contribution” to the goal of establishing two states, he said.

Some nations. like Norway, once held off recognizing a Palestinian state in the belief that recognition would someday emerge from a negotiated peace process. With such a process seemingly currently out of reach and outrage over Israeli policies growing, some countries have put recognition first in the hope that it would lead to a peace process.

Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said that the establishment of a Palestinian state would endanger Israel’s security, and he has rejected the notion, particularly since the war in Gaza began. His governing coalition includes far-right ministers who are settlers and staunchly opposed to a Palestinian state, and he risks their abandoning the bloc if he indicates a willingness to consider it.

In a statement on Tuesday, Mr. Netanyahu said Britain’s announcement “rewards Hamas’s monstrous terrorism & punishes its victims.”

 

 

Countries that have recognized the State of Palestine.
500px-Palestine_recognition_only.svg.png

If the UK goes through with it in September, you have to think Canada, Australia, and New Zealand aren't too far behind.

 

Edited by bolverk
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Posted

Having traveled around Europe for the last month, I have to observe that Israel really has no international sympathy at this point.  They had everyone's support after October 7.  Now, they have none.  It's far worse than how the United States frittered away the international support we had afer September 11, which is really kind of hard to imagine.

As an aside, it's kind of weird how the only foreign-language television programs most international hotels show are news channels.  But there you have it.  So as an English-speaker in a European hotel, your television options are typically limited to BBC, CNN International, and Sky News.

Fortunately, I speak German.  So I could watch ARD and ZDF.  I also understand enough French that I could watch France24.

And let me tell you--every one of those news stations are wall-to-wall coverage of the genocide in Gaza.  And that's how they' style it: "genocide."  And the video--and there's a lot of video of starving children and Isreali-blocked food aid--support that characterization.

Bevo and Magic can bloviate all they want here on a college-football message board.  It doesn't matter.  Israel has turned itself into an international outcast.  And the diplomatic consequences are starting to be felt.  France and the UK will recognize Palestinian soveignty.  Those are the two big European players in the diplomatic sphere. 

And that's the first step; it won't be the last.  International pressure akin to what South Africa experienced is coming.  And as was the case with South Africa, the United States is going to be late to the party.  But it'll eventually get on board.

Israel is absolutely killing itself here.

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Posted
17 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You are welcome to provide any compelling evidence that contradicts their reporting. I see nothing in that self description that I disagree strongly with. 

It is possible that a media source with an agenda remains factual.  

Who'da thunk it?

Posted
21 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Israel is absolutely killing itself here.

I've been trying to hammer this home for a while now. There is nothing about what Israel is doing now that is a net positive for its long term interests. Alienating the entire planet aside from the American government doesn't seem like a viable long term solution.

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Israel is absolutely killing itself here.

 

14 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I've been trying to hammer this home for a while now. There is nothing about what Israel is doing now that is a net positive for its long term interests. Alienating the entire planet aside from the American government doesn't seem like a viable long term solution.

Israel is well on its way to being seen as a rogue state by most of the world, and it seems Israeli extremists are determined to make that happen.

Yesterday, @Satchel posted this conversation between Jon Stewart and Peter Beinart elsewhere from Monday night. It’s very much worth the 18 minutes as it hits on so many of the points we’ve all been making, but from a Jewish perspective. 

 

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