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London Met Police To Take on…..Freemasons?

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Since everyone is a mentally ill conspiracy theorist now, I shouldn’t be surprised but somehow I still am. The London Met has decided it needs to ferret out Freemasons in the ranks, apparently in an effort to appease other mentally ill people. It’s been a while since we had a good Masonry panic, maybe Nature is Healing?

So, it seems this stems from the unsolved murder of a PI named Daniel Morgan in 1987.

The ensuing investigations seem to have been a complete clusterfuck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Daniel_Morgan

Starmer was involved in dismissing a large prosecution against suspects.

A big independent report was released in 2021 that has several footnotes referencing rumors of Freemasonry tainting the investigation, none of which seem to have any basis in fact. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60c89983d3bf7f4bd4662c62/_HC_11-I__-_The_Report_of_the_Daniel_Morgan_Independent_Panel__Volume_1_.pdf

This looks like an almost Trumpian deflection effort by Starmer to "do something."

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23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, it seems this stems from the unsolved murder of a PI named Daniel Morgan in 1987.

The ensuing investigations seem to have been a complete clusterfuck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Daniel_Morgan

Starmer was involved in dismissing a large prosecution against suspects.

A big independent report was released in 2021 that has several footnotes referencing rumors of Freemasonry tainting the investigation, none of which seem to have any basis in fact. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60c89983d3bf7f4bd4662c62/_HC_11-I__-_The_Report_of_the_Daniel_Morgan_Independent_Panel__Volume_1_.pdf

This looks like an almost Trumpian deflection effort by Starmer to "do something."

Starmer is in the middle of a PR crisis because he bragged about bringing “home” an Egyptian extremist who inherited his citizenship from a prior government víš his mother (who was born there while his grandma is a student) without ever setting foot in the UK. He was jailed in Egypt and became a minor cause. No sooner had he landed than a series of tweets emerged from his 30s where he called gay people “dirty homosexuals,” expressed a desire to work with bin Laden to kill Americans, and to engage in mass exterminations of white people. (Of course also the requisite calls to kill Zionists anywhere; which made the aforementioned OK). Several MPs who were on board have turned against him.

If it is deflection, resurrecting a 40 year old Masonic conspiracy is the most brain dead way to go about it). So it will likely work.

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

(Of course also the requisite calls to kill Zionists anywhere; which made the aforementioned OK).

It did?

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

It did?

I don't think Brits have the same general level of affection for Israel that Americans do.

First, Israel killed quite a few Brits on the way in; second, they generally lack the species of fundagelicals that believe Israel's existence essential to the second coming.

So, their Nazis continue to be raging anti-Semites, while ours are only partial anti-Semites.

16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think Brits have the same general level of affection for Israel that Americans do.

First, Israel killed quite a few Brits on the way in; second, they generally lack the species of fundagelicals that believe Israel's existence essential to the second coming.

So, their Nazis continue to be raging anti-Semites, while ours are only partial anti-Semites.

Both Christian Zionism and the end of days Dispensationalism were born in England. Granted, it didn't catch on like wildfire over there like it did here. America seems to be where all the Christian byproducts of the English reformation go to market.

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36 minutes ago, F250 said:

Both Christian Zionism and the end of days Dispensationalism were born in England. Granted, it didn't catch on like wildfire over there like it did here. America seems to be where all the Christian byproducts of the English reformation go to market.

The English have a state church and also a developed tendency to encourage their zealots to decamp for other parts of the Anglosphere. As a result they missed some real theological oddities and sped up secularization.

However, it has long been clear that the secularism and rationalism trains are not only on different tracks, but often heading different directions. As evidenced by Mason conspiracy posting and public policy in the Year of our Lord 2025. This is in strong contention for most embarrassing statement— public institutions category in 2025, even with DJT in office.

39 minutes ago, F250 said:

Both Christian Zionism and the end of days Dispensationalism were born in England. Granted, it didn't catch on like wildfire over there like it did here. America seems to be where all the Christian byproducts of the English reformation go to market.

Yeah, John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren all originated over there. But yes, it really took hold here.

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11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren all originated over there. But yes, it really took hold here.

It cant be emphasized enough that these currents were all extremely modern and an attempt to work a framework of rationalism and historicism into a religious foundation. They were wrong, but that’s what it was.

Many humbling similar lessons out there on various dead ends of Progress and Reason for those willing to see.

Edited by 956 Worldwide

Also, who'd have figured 956 was a Mason. 😬😬

I'm descended from a fairly long line of Masons, myself. But, as far as I know, it was just a frat for grown men.

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52 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, who'd have figured 956 was a Mason. 😬😬

I'm descended from a fairly long line of Masons, myself. But, as far as I know, it was just a frat for grown men.

It was sort of a given thing for white Protestant men to do who were aspiring or actual pillar of the community types. And it is true as well that an earlier generation of enlightenment/democratic types discussed these ideas at Masonic lodges. The analysis of Masonry as a secret society of powerful puppet masters, though, is very much on the “wet roads cause rain” level. Also very en vogue as a Tsarist bete noir, which is equally true for many ideas later adopted by schizos.

2 hours ago, F250 said:

Both Christian Zionism and the end of days Dispensationalism were born in England. Granted, it didn't catch on like wildfire over there like it did here. America seems to be where all the Christian byproducts of the English reformation go to market.

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The English have a state church and also a developed tendency to encourage their zealots to decamp for other parts of the Anglosphere. As a result they missed some real theological oddities and sped up secularization.

However, it has long been clear that the secularism and rationalism trains are not only on different tracks, but often heading different directions. As evidenced by Mason conspiracy posting and public policy in the Year of our Lord 2025. This is in strong contention for most embarrassing statement— public institutions category in 2025, even with DJT in office.

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren all originated over there. But yes, it really took hold here.

can one of y'all (or any others reading this post) suggest a primer or three on the various flavors of those estranged from the true church and (particularly) how various flavors have popped up and gained influence here in america? example: as a wine drinking, jesus-eating, non-practicing cat'lick (but i repeat myself) i have no idea what the fuck a cowboy church is.

Edited by elfenix

3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i have no idea what the fuck a cowboy church is.

Me neither, although I pass the sign on 281 outside Kendalia frequently. I just figured they were some southern baptists that has lax Sunday dress and mixed in a rodeo every once in a while.

Since we’re back to Freemason conspiracies, let’s dust off the anarchists while we’re at it. Mustaches and spats for everyone. Syme, where you at?

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35 minutes ago, elfenix said:

can one of y'all (or any others reading this post) suggest a primer or three on the various flavors of those estranged from the true church and (particularly) how various flavors have popped up and gained influence here in america? example: as a wine drinking, jesus-eating, non-practicing cat'lick (but i repeat myself) i have no idea what the fuck a cowboy church is.

The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind and Fundamentalism and American Culture are sober, critical, but not jeremiad culture war examinations of Evangelicalism and fundamentalism in America, including how to tell them apart. Highly recommend. These are serious histories and not tracts. I honestly don’t know of any serious studies of Prosperity Gospel stuff. It was pretty new when I was doing my religion reading.

For a peek behind the veil, The Late Great Planet Earth is deeply influential and insane and a direct line to the conspiratorial, politically chapter apocalyptic version of fundamentalism we have today, and Rick Warren’s The Purpose Driven Life for a more meaningful look at what mainstream Evangelicals actually consume and aspire to.

I am not Evangelical, BTW. And Anastasis is basically right that almost any unusual church with no clear denomination you see is basically just Baptists in a different costume. Sometimes you get lucky and it’s something fun, like a holiness inspired bunch.

Down the road the real growth industry is in the Spanish speaking Evangelical and holiness groups. Everyone is in for some interesting times.

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind and Fundamentalism and American Culture are sober, critical, but not jeremiad culture war examinations of Evangelicalism and fundamentalism in America, including how to tell them apart. Highly recommend. These are serious histories and not tracts. I honestly don’t know of any serious studies of Prosperity Gospel stuff. It was pretty new when I was doing my religion reading.

For a peek behind the veil, The Late Great Planet Earth is deeply influential and insane and a direct line to the conspiratorial, politically chapter apocalyptic version of fundamentalism we have today, and Rick Warren’s The Purpose Driven Life for a more meaningful look at what mainstream Evangelicals actually consume and aspire to.

I am not Evangelical, BTW. And Anastasis is basically right that almost any unusual church with no clear denomination you see is basically just Baptists in a different costume. Sometimes you get lucky and it’s something fun, like a holiness inspired bunch.

Down the road the real growth industry is in the Spanish speaking Evangelical and holiness groups. Everyone is in for some interesting times.

Ay Dios mio.

goes to YouTube to watch espanish pentecostals

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6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ay Dios mio.

goes to YouTube to watch espanish pentecostals

It should not be lost on anyone that among the first real, genuine, black people and white people equal and egalitarian movements in America was Pentecostalism and the Azusa Street revival, in a way that none of the progressives of the time or later times could recreate or desired to. People who are on fire with the Holy Spirit do not always behave as expected, remains true of enthusiastic religion today. Holiness Pentecostaliam is actual counter-culture. They are not larping.

National Treasure 4: Origins
We get King George's shit this time

national-treasure-benjamin-franklin-gate

Edited by Iceman

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

can one of y'all (or any others reading this post) suggest a primer or three on the various flavors of those estranged from the true church and (particularly) how various flavors have popped up and gained influence here in america? example: as a wine drinking, jesus-eating, non-practicing cat'lick (but i repeat myself) i have no idea what the fuck a cowboy church is.

A Cowboy Church is just typical non-denominational church where doctrine varies a little bit from church to church. It is meant to create an inclusive culture by being open to the working man but has become insular through their constant promotion of the cowboy lifestyle.

I like this book as a high overview of the branching of Christianity starting with Luther and up until the current trends in Christianity.

images.jpg

Regarding the current topic, something more specific to the English Reformation which differs from The Reformation. The English were a lot more deliberate in their break from the RCC and as mentioned earlier, tended to ship off their radicals. This is a good primer on the English Reformation.

images(1).jpg

Something else to read about which I personally find fascinating is the impact of the American revolution on Christianity.

The Presbyterians broke from the Church of Scotland because of 'Merica.. Members of the Anglican church were cut off from the Church of England due to the war. Apostolic succession became a major issue during the war.

American Episcopalians eventually gained succession through the Scots after the revolution. A little loophole they found.

The followers of John Wesley who were Anglicans at the time and became Methodists ended up rejecting the concept. Apparently Wesley himself sought succession through the Eastern Orthodox church. The Episcopalians offered the Methodists succession post revolution but they rejected it.

The idea of an episcopal church structure was rejected in favor of congregationalism because it aligned better with American political values just shows how malleable Christianity can be.

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, who'd have figured 956 was a Mason. 😬😬

I'm descended from a fairly long line of Masons, myself. But, as far as I know, it was just a frat for grown men.

It is a frat for grown men that evolved appropriate to the decade/century and has existed in its current form (more or less) since at least 1717. Speculative lodges (open to those who were not in the operative mason trade) have existed since at least 1599. It is not a religion, but teachings and ceremonies incorporate many themes or stories from Judeo-Christian texts and other ancient religions and philosophy. Where stone masons were builders of castles and cathedrals, free masons are builders of men and communities. As 956 said, if you were a somebody in the community (or aspired to be or just wanted to privately associate with the type), there’s a good chance you were a Freemason up until the 1960s, when modern luxuries such as television combined with government/war/society disillusionment saw a steep drop off in new membership. Because such a small percentage of men have have become masons in the past 50 years, it is less likely that government and business icons are Freemasons today as compared to the 1770s-1950s. Therefore in one sense they are less visible and less likely to be implicated in anything. On the other hand, it is seen as even more mysterious and selective to the profane world as many (or most) Americans may not personally know a living Freemason (compared to pre-1960 when the average person was friends or family with many members). This is the long winded way to say it is a fraternity for adults with noble intentions and radical ideas such as democracy, equality, and religious/political tolerance.

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I honestly don’t know of any serious studies of Prosperity Gospel stuff.

Because their theology is pretty much non-serious.

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Holiness Pentecostaliam is actual counter-culture. They are not larping.

I have not idea what holiness pentecostalism is? I am familiar with the oneness sect? Are those things related?

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I have not idea what holiness pentecostalism is? I am familiar with the oneness sect? Are those things related?

Pretty similar except the oneness are non-trininitarian.

13 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

It is a frat for grown men that evolved appropriate to the decade/century and has existed in its current form (more or less) since at least 1717. Speculative lodges (open to those who were not in the operative mason trade) have existed since at least 1599. It is not a religion, but teachings and ceremonies incorporate many themes or stories from Judeo-Christian texts and other ancient religions and philosophy. Where stone masons were builders of castles and cathedrals, free masons are builders of men and communities. As 956 said, if you were a somebody in the community (or aspired to be or just wanted to privately associate with the type), there’s a good chance you were a Freemason up until the 1960s, when modern luxuries such as television combined with government/war/society disillusionment saw a steep drop off in new membership. Because such a small percentage of men have have become masons in the past 50 years, it is less likely that government and business icons are Freemasons today as compared to the 1770s-1950s. Therefore in one sense they are less visible and less likely to be implicated in anything. On the other hand, it is seen as even more mysterious and selective to the profane world as many (or most) Americans may not personally know a living Freemason (compared to pre-1960 when the average person was friends or family with many members). This is the long winded way to say it is a fraternity for adults with noble intentions and radical ideas such as democracy, equality, and religious/political tolerance.

I've been extended invites by the Freemasons and Lions Club to join. I was in my early 30's at the time. My response.

baby-billy-the-righteous-gemstones.gif

So are they still going to drive those tiny cars in the parade?

Image

I always figured cowboy church was for those who wish to celebrate their religion through nstagram, as baby jesus intended.

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6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Because their theology is pretty much non-serious.

6 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

It is a frat for grown men that evolved appropriate to the decade/century and has existed in its current form (more or less) since at least 1717. Speculative lodges (open to those who were not in the operative mason trade) have existed since at least 1599. It is not a religion, but teachings and ceremonies incorporate many themes or stories from Judeo-Christian texts and other ancient religions and philosophy. Where stone masons were builders of castles and cathedrals, free masons are builders of men and communities. As 956 said, if you were a somebody in the community (or aspired to be or just wanted to privately associate with the type), there’s a good chance you were a Freemason up until the 1960s, when modern luxuries such as television combined with government/war/society disillusionment saw a steep drop off in new membership. Because such a small percentage of men have have become masons in the past 50 years, it is less likely that government and business icons are Freemasons today as compared to the 1770s-1950s. Therefore in one sense they are less visible and less likely to be implicated in anything. On the other hand, it is seen as even more mysterious and selective to the profane world as many (or most) Americans may not personally know a living Freemason (compared to pre-1960 when the average person was friends or family with many members). This is the long winded way to say it is a fraternity for adults with noble intentions and radical ideas such as democracy, equality, and religious/political tolerance.

Rigjt but they’re incredibly influential and deserve at least a genealogy type treatment.

The actual Met policy aimed at Masons is that anyone has to declare membership in a “hierarchical organization where members pledge to support each other.” Which would seem to include Catholics, the Church of England, Lions, and Rotary too. For the real vintage, finely-crafted Eastern European boomer schizo take, look up Rotary conspiracies which I’ve come across in the wild.

I never a knew a Mason who was secretive about membership. The rites and internal stuff was not for the public, but none of them hide membership (that I know of?). I guess with the bizarre anti-masonry of Scotland Yard you might. If 2/3 of your workforce is concerned about Masons that is a cry for help and not validation.

Edited by 956 Worldwide

I used to not mind the Freemasons. I til they started replacing the furniture in my house with ever so slightly different but otherwise exact copies.

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7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I have not idea what holiness pentecostalism is? I am familiar with the oneness sect? Are those things related?

They share a family tree which (somewhat surprisingly) branches off from the sober and staid folks at your local Wesleyan Methodist Church.

Holinesses started within Wesleyan churches as a “second work of grace”— sanctification and Christian perfection which follows conversion. Holiness Pentecostals added the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” which is evidenced by the charismatic stuff: tongue speaking, etc. Within that group, a second group decided Wesley’s holiness was bunk (“finished work”) and that the only acts of grace are conversion and Holy Spirit baptism. Then a third group among the finished work group tossed out trinitarianism and became Oneness Pentecostals. Snake Handlers are Holiness Christians and often Holiness Pentecostals but are marginal even within that group.

I view these groups with fascination and some bit of sympathy. A lot of radical egalitarianism, a complete lack of concern with the mainstream of society, and a near total rejection of its aesthetics. And uninterested in temporal power and influence structures, just concerned with another world entirely. Definitely intense groups but not quite cults in the compound and discipline type way. Actual, real radical, counter-culture that does not get profiles in national magazines or the movie treatment.

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will keep the secrets of a brother Master Mason when communicated to me as such. Murder and treason alone accepted, and these left at my option".

Not saying' they did anything, not saying they didn't.

Edited by Bevo&Pevo

4 hours ago, RPM said:

So are they still going to drive those tiny cars in the parade?

Image

I was going to say, I would love to see an all out battle between Shriners and Freemasons. Maybe with a few Lions Club members thrown in with maces.

Could the world use more "lodge" type deals, like the Elks Lodge, where middle-age dudes get together to drink beer, bitch about their wives, talk sports, and just be dudes with no real expectations or hassles? Fuck yes we could. It would do us al some good, I suspect.

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Could the world use more "lodge" type deals, like the Elks Lodge, where middle-age dudes get together to drink beer, bitch about their wives, talk sports, and just be dudes with no real expectations or hassles? Fuck yes we could. It would do us al some good, I suspect.

Yes, and also deer camps and also tee times and church parking lots and softball leagues. This also where the young bucks learn to act like men.

Not to steer this to an incel discussion but women also need to avoid dismantling these little clubs and also pushing men to socialize like they do. I’m not suggesting women encourage every night happy hour. I am suggesting they maybe encourage joining a sports league or the Elks before telling men to do “therapy.”

I'm betting there is more secret handshakes and deals at the clubhouse at Augusta than your local blue lodge.

19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

women also need to avoid dismantling these little clubs and also pushing men to socialize like they do.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Just kidding.

15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Yes, and also deer camps and also tee times and church parking lots and softball leagues. This also where the young bucks learn to act like men.

Indeed. On just this visit home, the boy was speaking reverently about the years he went on deer hunting/work weekend trips to a friend's ranch. An eclectic group of professionals (with a strong redneck tinge) and some friends and family members who were decidedly more blue-collar and rough around the edges. The boy was usually the youngest member of the crew, so the men relished the opportunity to share their "wisdom," and he wisely drank it up. He was mentioning it in the context of learning how to appreciate and communicate with different demographics and perspectives, having observed colleagues at uni who he said were quite smart....but terrible at communicating and relating to a broad audience. He, on the other hand, has had conversations about global policy with PhDs, and about nitty-gritty "what life is like" conversations with truck drivers and rodeo cowboys and small-scale contractors who have worked with their hands their whole lives, and he can connect with all of them. He's smart enough to know that's a life skill.

There's nothing wrong with "girls weekends" or "women's teas." There's also nothing wrong with male-dominated activities, featuring some old-school male dynamics. In fact, there's a whole lot that's right and good about both. One can learn how to be a man, and NOT treat women like shit and as just objects. As one can learn how to be a woman, and not just badmouth men and treat them all like predators and the enemy. We are sorely in need of moderation across the board, and in our abandonment of it, have abandoned institutions and activities that humans sorely need.

One better brisket, I attended some of those deer camps. Some of the other guys (obviously older) said some shit. Like having shot another human during war. They didn’t glorify it or even like it, it haunted them, like I shot and killed some dude who probably had a family. Some of them liked it and became long timers or cops. The ones who hated killing became our dads. That’s how we got here

39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There's also nothing wrong with male-dominated activities, featuring some old-school male dynamics.

How Dare You Greta GIF

33 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

One better brisket, I attended some of those deer camps. Some of the other guys (obviously older) said some shit. Like having shot another human during war. They didn’t glorify it or even like it, it haunted them, like I shot and killed some dude who probably had a family. Some of them liked it and became long timers or cops. The ones who hated killing became our dads. That’s how we got here

Yep. The boy distinctly remembers one of the older fellas going on a beer-lubricated rant about his time in Vietnam, and how he still thought that people thought less of him because of it, and because he never got a college degree, especially young people who didn't even remember the war.

Long pause around the fire. The boy is all of 16, pipes up with words to the effect of "I don't think less of you at all. I think you should be proud of your service. And you should be proud of what you do [as the boy gestured to the structure we were sitting under, as the old man had built it by hand]." It got pretty damn quiet around the fire after that, pretty sure the old man and the boy were teared up a bit. I didn't say a fucking word.

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I don’t have sons I have daughters. Much easier, I just tell the girls every day not to settle for less than six figs/six-six/great bone structure. #doingmypart

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I don’t have sons I have daughters. Much easier, I just tell the girls every day not to settle for less than six figs/six-six/great bone structure. #doingmypart

I looked it up out of curiosity.

Less than 1% of U.S. men are 6'6" or taller.

Around 25% of U.S. men earn six figures or more.

The percentage of U.S. men who are 6'6" and earn over six figures: 0.07%

I have no idea how to quantify "great bone structure," but we can assume a certain percentage of that 0.07% does not have it, dropping the number even lower.

Since you didn't clarify on the gender front, here you go:

Less than 0.1% of U.S. women are 6'6" or taller.

Around 11% of U.S. women earn six figures or more.

The percentage of U.S. women who are 6'6" and earn over six figures: essentially 0.0%

If your goal is to keep them single for life, you're on to something.

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