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Posted

Netanyahu says Israel should invest in influence operations to counteract isolation | Reuters

Quote

JERUSALEM, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Israel needs to invest heavily in "influence operations" in traditional and social media to counteract economic isolation arising from negative publicity abroad, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Monday.

Speaking at a Finance Ministry conference, Netanyahu said foreign investment into Israel had held up in the wake of a 12-day war against Iran in June, which he said removed an immediate threat of a nuclear-armed foe.

But in a rare acknowledgment of the isolation arising from international criticism of Israel's war in Gaza, he said Israel faced an economic threat of sanctions and other measures.

Stop doing genocide and apartheid? Nah let's just do more Russia shit.

Also highly amusing because, considering that they already do this, I'm not sure what he's trying to signal here.

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Posted

You know, this past week we saw a lot of condemnation of "political violence" from folks who can't condemn a genocide.

 

I'm not sure I have this thought completely all down, or have matured the theory enough in my mind.  But the further crushing of free speech we are seeing this week regarding Charlie Kirk feels like its a very similar thread to what happened to people criticizing the state of Israel post Oct 7.  Calling out their war crimes getting one branded as anti-zionist.  Especially before the starving children pictures took hold.  And how mainstream US media (regardless or 'right' or 'left') chose to cover (or not cover)  the genocide.  How the pro-Palestinian college protestors were treated.  Pretty sure people were fired for their beliefs regarding it all as well.  It feels like the very same mechanism and now some of the same angry liberals are angry but failing to connect the dots.  Disinformation and gaslighting are dangerous wherever they get away with it.

 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Israel says 'Gaza is burning' as it launches ground assault | Reuters

Israel's doing more Nazi shit today! Taking a break from mourning Charlie Kirk, I guess.

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We're still calling this a war? To quote Animal Mother, "this isn't a war. It's a slaughter."

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Brave fellows indeed in their jets and tanks blasting the fuck out of a town filled with starving refugees.

Who would have thought that sanctions threatened two years into a genocidal attack wouldn't work? I'm sure another round of international condemnation will put an end to the starvation of tens of thousands of homeless children. Shalom!

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We're really really alarmed now, goddamn you! Really really really alarmed!

So alarmed are they that they are rolling out the word genocide as though that was the mark we had to hit before shit was bad for the civilian Gazans being bombed, shot, displaced, and starved for two years. That word has been used as a wicked semantic crutch to make everybody not feel so bad about the slaughter. It's the triple dog dare of international impotence and moral vacuity.

Has the UN pronounced it a famine yet so that the NYT and CNN can apply that word? Got to have a quote before you can declare what you see as what you see. Motherfuckers.

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Haven't seen such bravery since the German Army cleared the Warsaw Jewish ghetto! Thank merciful Jesus that our president applauds!

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Posted (edited)

NYT

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The slavery of template language:

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Fierce condemnation? Fierce? 

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Oooooooh, words like a tiger. College grad, elite newspaper writing. 

Derailing a diplomatic resolution?

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Link

When was it ever railed to begin with? I guess in the template for armed conflict it was there from the start because, well, because laziness.

At last, the tame, cowardly NYT finds someone they quote to describe what has been self-evident for over a year. Whew!

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But oh noes! There's another side to the story! The murderers have doubts about those saying they murder. Poor NYT, varnishing truth and accuracy yet again.

But, Roma, how would we, the esteemed New York TImes, know there was famine?

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We were at DefCon Sharpest on the impotent response scale. Gentler days.

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The word famine existed long before the UN. One didn't require special dispensation to declare it. It was certainly never meant to be a word whose non-usage implies that killing hunger is not present. Picture from more than a year ago:

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Most Americans probably don't care, anyway, but the NYT and other mass outlets should present the clear picture so their readers can decide for themselves.

So many things bringing our world down. So few things being done by the powerful to stop them.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted
3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The anti-Israel and anti-Netanyahu movement is really ramping up on the right as we speak. 

We are nearing a significant breaking point within MAGA, I think. 

 

 

I think bombing Qatar was overreach and Israel was foolhardy in that risk.

But the Anti-Israel conspiracy theories around Charlie Kirk are what are going to be the break. Because...people.

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I think bombing Qatar was overreach and Israel was foolhardy in that risk.

But the Anti-Israel conspiracy theories around Charlie Kirk are what are going to be the break. Because...people.

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One might have thought this was overreach.

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ETA to add this photo of Dresden:

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Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted

It's so incredibly telling how silent certain liberal posters have become on this issue, because they know their pro-genocide posting would be very poorly received, unlike the immediate aftermath of Oct. 7th. 

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Posted

I really do like Oregon.  In my internal debate of flee or stay Oregon really makes me want to stay.

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2025/09/oregon-lawmaker-leads-call-for-us-to-recognize-palestine-as-a-state.html

"
Oregon senator leads call for U.S. to recognize Palestine as a state"
 

Spoiler

Oregon Democratic Sen. Jeff Merkley on Thursday introduced a resolution to recognize Palestine as a state.

The effort, also sponsored by several other Democrats, is the first of its kind in the U.S Senate, Merkley said. It calls on President Donald Trump to recognize a “demilitarized Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel.”

The resolution is unlikely to move forward in the Republican-controlled Senate, especially as Republicans have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Merkley said he has advocated for a two-state solution to “support peace and stability across the Middle East.”

“Recognition of a Palestinian state is not only a practical step the United States can take to help build a future where Palestinians and Israelis can live in freedom, dignity, and security, but it is the right thing to do,” Merkley wrote in a news release. “America has a responsibility to lead, and the time to act is now.”

The move comes just days before a meeting of world leaders where heads of several Western countries, including Britain and Canada, are expected to formally recognize Palestinian statehood, Reuters reported. Nearly 150 of the 193 members of the United Nations have already recognized Palestinian statehood, most of them decades ago. The United Nations General Assembly last week endorsed a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine.

America is among the countries that doesn’t recognize Palestine statehood. Trump said in England on Thursday that he disagrees with Britain’s plan to recognize Palestine statehood, according to media reports.

A State Department spokesperson said on social media that the United Nations’ push for a two-state solution is an “ill-advised stunt that will further embolden Hamas and undermine our serious diplomatic efforts to end the war.”

Merkley’s resolution calls on Hamas to end a “campaign of terrorism” and to release the remaining hostages taken during its Oct. 7, 2023, attack. It also tells Israel to “take immediate steps to end the war in Gaza and surge humanitarian aid into the territory.”

Merkley and Sen. Chris Van Hollen, a Maryland Democrat, visited Israel and the Gaza border in August and co-authored a report that blames America for being complicit in a plan by the Israeli government to “ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians.”

“The most viable way to create some light at the end of the very dark tunnel in the Middle East, and assure security and self-determination for Israelis and Palestinians alike, is a two-state solution,” Van Hollen wrote in a statement included in Merkley’s news release. “Given that the (Benjamin) Netanyahu government has obstructed that goal and the Trump administration has abandoned it, the Congress must make its position clear.”

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I really do like Oregon.  In my internal debate of flee or stay Oregon really makes me want to stay.

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2025/09/oregon-lawmaker-leads-call-for-us-to-recognize-palestine-as-a-state.html

"
Oregon senator leads call for U.S. to recognize Palestine as a state"
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Oregon Democratic Sen. Jeff Merkley on Thursday introduced a resolution to recognize Palestine as a state.

The effort, also sponsored by several other Democrats, is the first of its kind in the U.S Senate, Merkley said. It calls on President Donald Trump to recognize a “demilitarized Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel.”

The resolution is unlikely to move forward in the Republican-controlled Senate, especially as Republicans have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Merkley said he has advocated for a two-state solution to “support peace and stability across the Middle East.”

“Recognition of a Palestinian state is not only a practical step the United States can take to help build a future where Palestinians and Israelis can live in freedom, dignity, and security, but it is the right thing to do,” Merkley wrote in a news release. “America has a responsibility to lead, and the time to act is now.”

The move comes just days before a meeting of world leaders where heads of several Western countries, including Britain and Canada, are expected to formally recognize Palestinian statehood, Reuters reported. Nearly 150 of the 193 members of the United Nations have already recognized Palestinian statehood, most of them decades ago. The United Nations General Assembly last week endorsed a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine.

America is among the countries that doesn’t recognize Palestine statehood. Trump said in England on Thursday that he disagrees with Britain’s plan to recognize Palestine statehood, according to media reports.

A State Department spokesperson said on social media that the United Nations’ push for a two-state solution is an “ill-advised stunt that will further embolden Hamas and undermine our serious diplomatic efforts to end the war.”

Merkley’s resolution calls on Hamas to end a “campaign of terrorism” and to release the remaining hostages taken during its Oct. 7, 2023, attack. It also tells Israel to “take immediate steps to end the war in Gaza and surge humanitarian aid into the territory.”

Merkley and Sen. Chris Van Hollen, a Maryland Democrat, visited Israel and the Gaza border in August and co-authored a report that blames America for being complicit in a plan by the Israeli government to “ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians.”

“The most viable way to create some light at the end of the very dark tunnel in the Middle East, and assure security and self-determination for Israelis and Palestinians alike, is a two-state solution,” Van Hollen wrote in a statement included in Merkley’s news release. “Given that the (Benjamin) Netanyahu government has obstructed that goal and the Trump administration has abandoned it, the Congress must make its position clear.”

 

Unfortunately this reads like “Random French Basketball star calls on IOC to recognize 1972 US Olympic Basketball Team as gold medal winners.”

Posted
1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Unfortunately this reads like “Random French Basketball star calls on IOC to recognize 1972 US Olympic Basketball Team as gold medal winners.”

Yeah, I get it.  But in this country it is still somehow controversial. 

Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Yeah, I get it.  But in this country it is still somehow controversial. 

Yeah it’s only one of about 10 sovereign nations in the world that hold it as such. 

Edited by hpslugga
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Posted
Quote

 

The U.S. has once again vetoed a UN Security Council resolution that calls for a ceasefire and captive release in Gaza, just days after a UN human rights inquiry concluded that Israel is committing genocide and the official death toll tops 65,000 people.

This is the sixth time that the U.S. has exercised its power to veto as one of the only five permanent members of the Security Council to quash a resolution calling for an end to the assault.

All of the other 14 members of the council voted for the resolution. It called for a lasting ceasefire in Gaza, for Israel to lift all restrictions on the delivery of humanitarian aid, and for the release of all captives held by Hamas. 

 

https://truthout.org/articles/us-vetoes-gaza-ceasefire-for-sixth-time-as-death-toll-tops-65000/

So you know, maybe the US deserves to die.  Like really.

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Posted

Cross posting. Shocking, I know, Israel lied about stuff.

Visual evidence upends Israel’s official story for deadly attack on Gaza hospital | Reuters

Quote

The Israeli military had said they targeted a Hamas camera in an August strike, but a Reuters investigation found the device actually belonged to the news agency. An Israeli military official now says troops fired without required approval. Five journalists died in the attack. Their deaths are among some 200 journalist killings by Israel that it has yet to fully explain.

 

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Posted

this timeline is just embarrassing to be a part of. just constant fucking gaslighting by the powers that be. this man can stand there and talk about a war like its a war, not a goddamn slaughter of innocent people. get fucked you asshole. 

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Posted

Fortunately for Israel and the US, Brazil has provided the blueprint for how to punish criminal presidents once they’re turned out of office.

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Posted
On 9/15/2025 at 10:45 AM, MC Fresh Breath said:

You know, this past week we saw a lot of condemnation of "political violence" from folks who can't condemn a genocide.

 

I'm not sure I have this thought completely all down, or have matured the theory enough in my mind.  But the further crushing of free speech we are seeing this week regarding Charlie Kirk feels like its a very similar thread to what happened to people criticizing the state of Israel post Oct 7.  Calling out their war crimes getting one branded as anti-zionist.  Especially before the starving children pictures took hold.  And how mainstream US media (regardless or 'right' or 'left') chose to cover (or not cover)  the genocide.  How the pro-Palestinian college protestors were treated.  Pretty sure people were fired for their beliefs regarding it all as well.  It feels like the very same mechanism and now some of the same angry liberals are angry but failing to connect the dots.  Disinformation and gaslighting are dangerous wherever they get away with it.

 

quoting myself, but came across this today:
 

Quote

Project Esther is a project of The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C., that aims to suppress pro-Palestinian protests and what it classifies as antisemitism. The effort has received support from several evangelical Christian organizations but no major Jewish ones.[1][2] 

 

Quote


Politico described Project Esther as "a lesser-known blueprint from the same creators of Project 2025."[7] In May 2025, The New York Times found that the second Trump administration had called for or acted upon more than half of Project Esther's proposals.[2]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Esther
So yeah.

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Posted (edited)

A whole show devoted to skewering Naziyahoo. While I think I knew most everything covered, all of it put together demonstrates what a corrupt and colossal asshole he is. He and dipshit truly are two peas in a pod, made for each other.

34 minutes

 

Edited by bolverk
me talk pretty one day
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Posted

I thought about this a good deal due to my mother’s dad being a Jew. He was not a practicing one and I am not sure he ever really cared much about things that had to do with Israel. Still he has the Star of David on his tombstone and so does his eldest son buried near him.

I have not supported anything Israel has done, but I no longer support Israel’s right to exist as a state. Anyone that is willingly starving a population is inherently evil. If not for our continued backing of Israel they would absolutely not exist as a country. When this world finally gets its act together and realizes Israel is not a rational actor, they need to be cut off from the rest of the world and left to die on the vine. What they are doing to those Gazans is beyond comprehension. Just eight decades ago they saw an end come to their holocaust experience with the Nazis. It appears the only thing they learned from that horrific experience is that they have to be every bit as cruel to the Palestinians as the Nazis were to them. 
 

We all have such a short time to exist and Israel’s government is hellbent on wiping out every single person in Gaza if they can. We can all point to other similar situations right now in the world, but from a country that knows the horrors of being targeted to be wiped out? This is truly barbaric and anyone that supports this is no one I ever want to spend any time around. I hope Palestine gets recognized as a country and that Israel once again ceases to exist for the brutal crimes against humanity they brazenly commit each and every day.

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Posted
6 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I thought about this a good deal due to my mother’s dad being a Jew. He was not a practicing one and I am not sure he ever really cared much about things that had to do with Israel. Still he has the Star of David on his tombstone and so does his eldest son buried near him.

I have not supported anything Israel has done, but I no longer support Israel’s right to exist as a state. Anyone that is willingly starving a population is inherently evil. If not for our continued backing of Israel they would absolutely not exist as a country. When this world finally gets its act together and realizes Israel is not a rational actor, they need to be cut off from the rest of the world and left to die on the vine. What they are doing to those Gazans is beyond comprehension. Just eight decades ago they saw an end come to their holocaust experience with the Nazis. It appears the only thing they learned from that horrific experience is that they have to be every bit as cruel to the Palestinians as the Nazis were to them. 
 

We all have such a short time to exist and Israel’s government is hellbent on wiping out every single person in Gaza if they can. We can all point to other similar situations right now in the world, but from a country that knows the horrors of being targeted to be wiped out? This is truly barbaric and anyone that supports this is no one I ever want to spend any time around. I hope Palestine gets recognized as a country and that Israel once again ceases to exist for the brutal crimes against humanity they brazenly commit each and every day.

This is clearly a well thought out post. Since you have researched so much, I have a couple of questions. 
 
1. You say Israel is “hellbent on wiping out every single person in Gaza”. Over the past two years, the Gaza Health Ministry has reported over 65k deaths from the war. It doesn’t distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. It is up to you to guess why; there are a number of possibilities and they range from charitable to Hamas (no man is an island and the loss of any one of us diminishes us all) to damning to Hamas (their most extreme rhetoric says that every Gazan is to be a Jihadi or a martyr). Naftali Bennett (the out of power party’s leader) discussed this a while back- he said the IDF stats show (when the deaths were at 63k) 10k natural deaths (would have died without the war), 20k combatants and 33k noncombatants. So, my question- you compared this to the Holocaust, saying it is equivalent. Clearly, that is hyperbole, right? Follow up question- there are a lot of definitions of genocide, ranging from the charnel house death camps of Nazi Germany to ethnic cleansing. Do you think one of the definitions of genocide applies here? And if so, which one?

 
Final question, Upper Westside- clearly you have studied this in detail. Yes or no, is Hamas trying to minimize loss of Gazan civilian life? For example- the IDF has an app (most Gazans have smart phones) to let Gazan neighborhoods know when they are coming in, so civilians can leave. Is Hamas facilitating humanitarian corridors, so people can evade the IDF strikes?

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Posted
On 10/4/2025 at 10:53 AM, statsman said:

This is clearly a well thought out post. Since you have researched so much, I have a couple of questions. 
 
1. You say Israel is “hellbent on wiping out every single person in Gaza”. Over the past two years, the Gaza Health Ministry has reported over 65k deaths from the war. It doesn’t distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. It is up to you to guess why; there are a number of possibilities and they range from charitable to Hamas (no man is an island and the loss of any one of us diminishes us all) to damning to Hamas (their most extreme rhetoric says that every Gazan is to be a Jihadi or a martyr). Naftali Bennett (the out of power party’s leader) discussed this a while back- he said the IDF stats show (when the deaths were at 63k) 10k natural deaths (would have died without the war), 20k combatants and 33k noncombatants. So, my question- you compared this to the Holocaust, saying it is equivalent. Clearly, that is hyperbole, right? Follow up question- there are a lot of definitions of genocide, ranging from the charnel house death camps of Nazi Germany to ethnic cleansing. Do you think one of the definitions of genocide applies here? And if so, which one?

 
Final question, Upper Westside- clearly you have studied this in detail. Yes or no, is Hamas trying to minimize loss of Gazan civilian life? For example- the IDF has an app (most Gazans have smart phones) to let Gazan neighborhoods know when they are coming in, so civilians can leave. Is Hamas facilitating humanitarian corridors, so people can evade the IDF strikes?

Deflection duly noted. 
 

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Posted

It's happening gif? From the AP this morning:

Quote

Both sides are under pressure to agree to a ceasefire, but they are also believed to be far apart on key issues—including whether Hamas will disarm and the withdrawal of Israeli troops. Going into the discussions, Hamas said it would agree to release its remaining hostages in exchange for a release of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, but those details are still being hashed out as well. The White House is pushing for the talks to move quickly, and the initial phase is likely to take several days

 

Posted

Trump is getting his Nobel Peace Prize isn't he? https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/live-blog/live-updates-israel-hamas-trump-peace-plan-rcna236552

Quote

 

Democrats and Republicans lauded Trump’s announcement of the first phase of a peace plan to end the war in Gaza, with some Republican senators saying he is deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Sen. John Fetterman, D-Pa., said on X: “I congratulate @POTUS on this historic peace plan that releases all the hostages. Now, enduring peace in the region is possible. Our parties are different but we have a shared ironclad commitment to Israel and its people.”

Sen. Tim Kaine, D-Va., a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said the agreement was encouraging.

“I appreciate President Trump’s work to bring Israel and Hamas to the table and am encouraged that an agreement has been made to release the remaining hostages taken on October 7 and begin a phased IDF withdrawal from Gaza. More work lies ahead, but this is very good news,” Kaine said on X.

U.S. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle congratulate Trump on Israel-Hamas announcement, continued

Senate Majority Leader John Thune, R-S.D., posted on X: “Nobody has worked harder for peace and stability in the Middle East than President Trump. I remain skeptical of Hamas’s motivations, but I am optimistic that the first steps announced today bring the region closer to peace than at any point in the last two years. It’s past time to return ALL of the hostages.”

Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., the chair of the Armed Services Committee, thanked Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, among others. “After two years of bloodshed that started with the horrific October 7th attacks carried out by Hamas against Israel, the people in the region may finally have hope for a lasting peace. I commend the president, Secretary Rubio, and all those who worked diligently to bring about a serious peace deal,” he said in a statement.

Sen. Cynthia Lummis, R-Wyo., said: “After two years of horrific violence and unimaginable loss, we have an agreement for peace in the Middle East. President Trump delivered on his promise to bring the hostages home and peace & prosperity to the region.” 

“@POTUS for the Nobel Peace Prize!” she added. 

Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., told NBC News that he would be “supportive” of Trump’s receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, as well.

Sen. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., expressed “cautious optimism” about phase one of the deal.

“Let’s hope it’s real,” he said.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, meanwhile, said the ceasefire and hostage agreement brings a “huge sigh of relief to the hostage families, to all of Israel, and to Palestinians who have suffered for so long in this horrific humanitarian catastrophe.”

“The work is not over, but any step to end this nightmare is one that should be celebrated and carefully implemented and followed through on,” said Schumer, D-N.Y.

He did not mention Trump in his 245-word statement.

House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., praised Trump, and took a dig at congressional Democrats in the process.

“What stands out tonight is the stunning contrast of what we’re seeing — this history is being made. Here’s President Trump showing peace through strength, using his power and position to bring peace to the Middle East,” Johnson said in an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity.

“I mean, a truly massive, historic foreign policy achievement," he said, later adding, "And here’s the Democrats on Capitol Hill acting like a bunch of clowns.”

 

 

Posted

Has Israel already delayed enough to complete their objective of making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland? The "peace" negotiations seem to have been the most transparent of fig leaves to allow continued slaughter and famine. 

Without massive international aid and investment, can anyone really see Gaza rising from its ashes as a home for the surviving Gazans? Imagine offers of international aid after the world's nations dithered during the most brutal eradication of a people since Pol Pot in Cambodia.

At least most of those countries didn't supply the bombs and ammo that killed the Gazans. We did. The greatestestest country in the whole widest world! Just ask us! Chock full of the free and the brave.

Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Has Israel already delayed enough to complete their objective of making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland? The "peace" negotiations seem to have been the most transparent of fig leaves to allow continued slaughter and famine. 

Without massive international aid and investment, can anyone really see Gaza rising from its ashes as a home for the surviving Gazans? Imagine offers of international aid after the world's nations dithered during the most brutal eradication of a people since Pol Pot in Cambodia.

At least most of those countries didn't supply the bombs and ammo that killed the Gazans. We did. The greatestestest country in the whole widest world! Just ask us! Chock full of the free and the brave.

From what I've read, Trump and others have supported the rebuilding of Gaza.

In other news, here are some more details:

Quote

 

As we have been reporting, the full details of the first-phase ceasefire deal have not been disclosed officially. Here is what we know so far:

A Palestinian source tells the BBC that the deal stipulates that 250 Palestinian prisoners and 1,700 Gazans detained by Israeli forces since the war began will be released

The source said Hamas has not received a list of Palestinian prisoners that Israel plans to release but this issue is expected to be resolved within hours

A senior Palestinian official also tells the BBC that under the deal, Israel will allow 400 aid trucks to enter Gaza daily, with the number to increase gradually in later stages

According to a White House official, Hamas will release the 20 living hostages during the first phase

 

Leaders across the world are pouring in praising Trump for the ceasefire and first phase of peace. That's interesting and forming a narrative above and beyond the MAGAT echo chamber.

Also I've read that Hamas seems pleased which likely means they won't be fully disarmed/disbanded once the full details emerge.

Lastly, it appears that Israel bombing Qatar during those negotiations ticked off everyone, even Trump, and backfired on Israel. I know we talked a lot about it at the time, but it was probably the biggest strategic blunder Israel had and they flew too close to the sun and ended up isolating everyone and losing Trump. Good for peace; bad for Israel's attempts at total domination.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted
21 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I am more than a little bit skeptical that Israel will actually follow any of these terms. They've broken every peace deal and ceasefire to date.

I hope they do, though.

It feels like Israel is finally backed into it and it would be a precarious situation for them to go against their own, and their allies and the west who are urging them behind the scenes, to go ain’t their own word and plan.

And Trump sees this as his moment and he’s not going to happy and keep pressure on.

Posted
8 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

From what I've read, Trump and others have supported the rebuilding of Gaza.

In other news, here are some more details:

Leaders across the world are pouring in praising Trump for the ceasefire and first phase of peace. That's interesting and forming a narrative above and beyond the MAGAT echo chamber.

Also I've read that Hamas seems pleased which likely means they won't be fully disarmed/disbanded once the full details emerge.

Lastly, it appears that Israel bombing Qatar during those negotiations ticked off everyone, even Trump, and backfired on Israel. I know we talked a lot about it at the time, but it was probably the biggest strategic blunder Israel had and they flew too close to the sun and ended up isolating everyone and losing Trump. Good for peace; bad for Israel's attempts at total domination.

Thanks for responding and for the information. I share Brian Fontana's skepticism and viewpoint below. Israel has participated in talks for more than a year using their participation to blatantly carry on the obliteration of Gaza. They attack and kill journalists providing the thin stream of eyewitness accounts of what they're doing.

Maybe the world leaders are swallowing their vomit and pride to praise Trump in hopes to move him to act with force.

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I am more than a little bit skeptical that Israel will actually follow any of these terms. They've broken every peace deal and ceasefire to date.

I hope they do, though.

Imagine giving a peace prize to leaders from a country who abetted this:

or deported persons demonstrating to stop it. Anyone associated with this is a war criminal. And, as I wrote above, this is the international community showing up just in the nick of time. Had they delayed any longer, things may have gotten really bad for the people of Gaza! In the meantime, all those stern warning and denouncements really helped!

I would have used a UN force heavily backed by the US military to set up a beachheads for humanitarian relief and dared Israel to attack it. If Hamas attacked, fuck them, too. From there, if possible, keep establishing larger zones protected from attack. Maybe none of that shit would work, but that's where my head is. I'm fucking ashamed of my country and the West.

Posted

With peace and the end of the war Bibi is about to have face his own issues he's been putting off (a corruption trial? having to speak to Israel's intelligence and security lapses that allowed 10/7 to even happen, having to take accountability for atrocity)  and then, boom, election will be here before you know it!

The big question I'm still waiting on hearing (well, there is two) but what about Hamas? We all agree they are the worst. Do we allow the Hamas peons to disband and be reconstructed to Palestine regulars while still finding and executing the remaining Hamas OG's who did 10/7?

Quote

"The original Gaza architects of the attack are all dead, and Trump’s plan offers amnesty for others willing to lay down their arms. But something tells us this won’t apply to the ~nine other original Hamas politburo members, all still in hiding."

The biggest question to me I'm super curious about:

Will Trump get a Nobel Peace Prize. I saw that a Nobel Peace Prize gets announced tomorrow at like 5am EST.

Even if you WANTED to give it to him, is it too late to pivot from whomever the committee had decided upon before yesterday? 

Would the meltdown from people and the collective crashing out if he got it be worth it in the blowback from the committee and international community?

Posted
1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

With peace and the end of the war Bibi is about to have face his own issues he's been putting off (a corruption trial? having to speak to Israel's intelligence and security lapses that allowed 10/7 to even happen, having to take accountability for atrocity)  and then, boom, election will be here before you know it!

The big question I'm still waiting on hearing (well, there is two) but what about Hamas? We all agree they are the worst. Do we allow the Hamas peons to disband and be reconstructed to Palestine regulars while still finding and executing the remaining Hamas OG's who did 10/7?

The biggest question to me I'm super curious about:

Will Trump get a Nobel Peace Prize. I saw that a Nobel Peace Prize gets announced tomorrow at like 5am EST.

Even if you WANTED to give it to him, is it too late to pivot from whomever the committee had decided upon before yesterday? 

Would the meltdown from people and the collective crashing out if he got it be worth it in the blowback from the committee and international community?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTt6C0Tn3PoOgX_ZXJSQz

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Posted

My ultimate suspicioun is that Israel uses this peace deal to get back the remaining hostages and just immediately resumes bombardment and conquest. I hope I am wrong. Considering there seems to be no movement on anything with regard to the West Bank, I suspect I am not.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Satchel said:

Certainly not, if the committee considers his complete body of work.

I'm almost 100% certain the only reason Trump wanted peace and put the pressure to get it done was to get that ego stroking of a desk tchotchke (in his view and pardon the yiddish slang).

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

My ultimate suspicioun is that Israel uses this peace deal to get back the remaining hostages and just immediately resumes bombardment and conquest. I hope I am wrong. Considering there seems to be no movement on anything with regard to the West Bank, I suspect I am not.

Not much shocks me but I would be absolutely shocked if that happened. Israel would have burned bridges and that's very foolhardy and shortsighted. I think that would be insane behavior by Israel from a nation state even looking out for their own benefits in the short and medium term...

Now.....I can see some other "provocation" which will "demand" an Israel response to re-engage at some point in the (not near) future to "finish the job", ranging from the justified response (e.g. a 10/7 like attack) to the thinnest rationalization, but even then I don't think it's all that likely.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Not much shocks me but I would be absolutely shocked if that happened. Israel would have burned bridges and that's very foolhardy and shortsighted. I think that would be insane behavior by Israel from a nation state even looking out for their own benefits in the short and medium term...

Now.....I can see some other "provocation" which will "demand" an Israel response to re-engage at some point in the (not near) future to "finish the job", ranging from the justified response (e.g. a 10/7 like attack) to the thinnest rationalization, but even then I don't think it's all that likely.

What have you seen from Bibi that makes you think he is ever going to keep up his end of a "deal"?  Ever?  He is literally trying to stay in power so he stays out of prison or away from death.  

Posted
3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What have you seen from Bibi that makes you think he is ever going to keep up his end of a "deal"?  Ever?  He is literally trying to stay in power so he stays out of prison or away from death.  

Well, for one, from what I've read (and it could be wrong of course) that Bibi overstepped and made an error in his bombing of Qatar (which we all called a strategic blunder at the time except one guy here whose name I don't recall but who was clearly wrong). This got him on the wrong side of what little, albeit powerful, allies he had left and forced him into a real isolated place to where this peace actually happens because of that error. Had he not made it, he might still be out there being headstrong with tacit support.

That said, I think that his keeping the peace is actually how he keeps the powerful tacit allies in his camp (US of A) which actually does keep him out prison and away from death a minimum.

Now, the calculus changes for him in 2028 when the adminsitration changes (if it does) and all bets are off....

Posted
13 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Not much shocks me but I would be absolutely shocked if that happened. Israel would have burned bridges and that's very foolhardy and shortsighted. I think that would be insane behavior by Israel from a nation state even looking out for their own benefits in the short and medium term...

Now.....I can see some other "provocation" which will "demand" an Israel response to re-engage at some point in the (not near) future to "finish the job", ranging from the justified response (e.g. a 10/7 like attack) to the thinnest rationalization, but even then I don't think it's all that likely.

They’ve broken practically every single ceasefire they’ve ever signed with Hamas. And they’ve admitted to that in their own internal documents. What would be shocking, at this point, is if they did not do such a thing. 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Not much shocks me but I would be absolutely shocked if that happened. Israel would have burned bridges and that's very foolhardy and shortsighted. I think that would be insane behavior by Israel from a nation state even looking out for their own benefits in the short and medium term...

Now.....I can see some other "provocation" which will "demand" an Israel response to re-engage at some point in the (not near) future to "finish the job", ranging from the justified response (e.g. a 10/7 like attack) to the thinnest rationalization, but even then I don't think it's all that likely.

I'm sorry but were you born last week? You'd have a much easier time listing off the things Israel has done post Oct 7 that haven't been completely insane than the opposite. They have broken literally every single ceasefire to date, and assuming this one won't be any different is the logical position to take.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They’ve broken practically every single ceasefire they’ve ever signed with Hamas. And they’ve admitted to that in their own internal documents. What would be shocking, at this point, is if they did not do such a thing. 

I hear you and could be swayed to your way of thinking but I think the difference this time is the level of exposure and visibility that the last 2 years has given the world, especially the West/US.

A lot of pundits thought that actually Hamas plan was to provoke Israel into atrocity to expose Israel for what they wouldn't be able to help themselves from doing, which is give into their base desire to exterminate Hamas and displace Palestinians and own the entire territory.

I think there has been way too much awareness now that didn't exist-- especially to the layman who frankly didn't care about the Palestinian plight 2 years ago-- to be able to revert back to pre-10/7 behavior with Palestine now without the justification of "war" anymore.

Israel painted them into that corner if what I posit is true.

Edited by Vegas64


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