The Supremes

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

So here’s a question that bothers me after Garland. Let’s say GOP wins the Senate and someone dies so Biden nominates a new justice, but despite the 2 year window, the GOP refuses to have judiciary hearings or a vote.

The Constitution gives the President the power to appoint the justices “with the advice and consent” of the Senate. If the Senate voluntarily abdicates its role, I believe the President still has the authority to place the justice on the court. 
 

My theory of course fails because the justices on this Court would ultimately decide whether that’s legitimate, and the conservatives only care about political outcomes (except Roberts). Alito and Thomas wouldn’t allow a democratic president to fill the seat, even when the senate deliberately fails to even give an up or down vote. 
 

What a shitty banana republic we have. Held hostage by a religious minority that’s funded by sources we can’t discover 

[wildcat09 28,387]

I hope every American who thought they wouldn’t do it because the GOP was just using abortion as a wedge issue finally fucking understands what we’re dealing with.

Hell, who am I kidding?

[Bateshorn 9,475]

So, now caffeinated and sober in the AM: there’s virtually no chance this leak came from the left. It invites reprisal from conservatives and serves no real cause, given how caustic Alito’s opinion is.  If you had a solid 5-4 or 6-4 majority, public outcry over the leak wasn’t going to suddenly sway somebody who fundamentally disagreed with abortion after the first term to change their mind.  Moreover, only a knuckle dragging moron would miss the obvious threat left in the decision to Oberfell.

Additionally Kagan and Sotomayor have worked their asses off to be friendly and collaborative with the majority judges. Everyone other than Barrett has mentioned how close they are.  Breyer is an institutionalist and would never. No ambitious clerk would risk their career to leak something that was going to come out in 3 months anyway.

It’s either Robert’s trying to pull a waffling Kavanaugh off the majority so he (Robert’s) can write a more moderated decision that leaves in place some form of first term abortion, or the majority is floating this decision to soften the July blow.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

4 hours ago, RabidM said:

Roberts has no one to blame but himself.  He's completely lost control of the court.  He had the chance to stop this multiple times when he was the swing vote, but he was too much of a pussy.  Now the other 5 don't need his vote and can do whatever they want.  He can't be the moderate conservative\deciding force anymore.  He's helpless.  SCOTUS will effectively be an arm of the GOP for the foreseeable future, unless a conservative justice dies before the midterm elections.  They might show some restraint on some issues, but the GOP is going to get all of their big ticket items done most likely.  

And that was the whole point of this decades long process of capturing control of the judiciary.  The GOP thinks and plans ahead dozens of years.  And the Democrats can't figure out how to shepherd their herd of cats on any given day. 

The myth of Roberts as a swing vote is perplexing to me. Yes he didn’t completely gut the ACA but he voted in plenty of 5-4 decisions siding with the conservatives. Voting Rights. Citizens United. On and on. But yes. He’s a horrible Chief Justice 

[wildcat09 28,387]

There’s a decent chance some pigs somewhere in Texas arrest a woman today for getting an abortion. Like all the morons thought Elon already bought Twitter the other day, some pigs are going to think abortion is illegal now.

[wildcat09 28,387]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

So, now caffeinated and sober in the AM: there’s virtually no chance this leak came from the left. It invites reprisal from conservatives and serves no real cause, given how caustic Alito’s opinion is.  If you had a solid 5-4 or 6-4 majority, public outcry over the leak wasn’t going to suddenly sway somebody who fundamentally disagreed with abortion after the first term to change their mind.  Moreover, only a knuckle dragging moron would miss the obvious threat left in the decision to Oberfell.

Additionally Kagan and Sotomayor have worked their asses off to be friendly and collaborative with the majority judges. Everyone other than Barrett has mentioned how close they are.  Breyer is an institutionalist and would never. No ambitious clerk would risk their career to leak something that was going to come out in 3 months anyway.

It’s either Robert’s trying to pull a waffling Kavanaugh off the majority so he (Robert’s) can write a more moderated decision that leaves in place, or the majority is floating this decision to soften the July blow.

I think the likeliest explanation is that someone in the majority leaked it to make sure a waffling Kavanaugh didn’t change his vote. He cares very much about still being liked by non-fanatics, but he won’t want to be seen as backing down to public pressure now.

[Bateshorn 9,475]

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The myth of Roberts as a swing vote is perplexing to me. Yes he didn’t completely gut the ACA but he voted in plenty of 5-4 decisions siding with the conservatives. Voting Rights. Citizens United. On and on. But yes. He’s a horrible Chief Justice 

If he had any nuts, he’d resign after the term and give the liberals a 4th judge and a Chief before the midterms.

[Starfleet Command 441]

13 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

I’m firmly on team Brisket. Pain and suffering and control is the end game for the GOP.

There is a larger project at play but I don't know how much of that you can project onto this decision.  Sam Alito has about as strong of a connection to reality as Ted Kaczynski.  These are highly insulated, extremely ideological, true believing holy warriors.  I don't think they are all like that or that the true aim of the project is to turn America into The Handmaid's Tale.  It's still primarily about money and less about social control.

The thing is with SCOTUS is that you have no accountability so your best bet is to get the most insane people possible which can lead to bouts of excess like overturning Roe.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Starfleet Command

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

8 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Going back to if states enact restrictions that might effectively ban before the first trimester, well there aren't many states where the GOP would survive long afterwards.

I’m pretty sure the GOP in those 20 states will be just fine. Your crystal ball is full of fantasy. 

[Bateshorn 9,475]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think the likeliest explanation is that someone in the majority leaked it to make sure a waffling Kavanaugh didn’t change his vote. He cares very much about still being liked by non-fanatics, but he won’t want to be seen as backing down to public pressure now.

Yeah, his time of being acceptable in NW DC social circles is already significantly narrowed. I know he no longer eats and drinks at his favorite hangouts on Connecticut Ave and mostly posts up at the Chevy Chase Country club.  This decision will effectively close his family’s  life as normal DC residents. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think the likeliest explanation is that someone in the majority leaked it to make sure a waffling Kavanaugh didn’t change his vote. He cares very much about still being liked by non-fanatics, but he won’t want to be seen as backing down to public pressure now.

Leaking also makes it possible for Fox News to rail about norms and processes- rather than confront the weight of the decision itself. It softens the blow

[jimmyjazz 45,055]

I don't have the time or inclination to go back and read well over a hundred new posts, so if someone could answer this question I'd be grateful:

Is it true that Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Coney Barrett all asserted during confirmation hearings that Roe V Wade is settled law and should not be overturned?

Edited May 3, 2022 by jimmyjazz
speling

[DigglerontheHoof 20,449]

If the Dems/center doesn't pull their heads out of their asses, we are steam rolling to be a theocracy.  Fucking Christians are the worse. 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,585]

4 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So, now caffeinated and sober in the AM: there’s virtually no chance this leak came from the left. It invites reprisal from conservatives and serves no real cause, given how caustic Alito’s opinion is.  If you had a solid 5-4 or 6-4 majority, public outcry over the leak wasn’t going to suddenly sway somebody who fundamentally disagreed with abortion after the first term to change their mind.  Moreover, only a knuckle dragging moron would miss the obvious threat left in the decision to Oberfell.

Additionally Kagan and Sotomayor have worked their asses off to be friendly and collaborative with the majority judges. Everyone other than Barrett has mentioned how close they are.  Breyer is an institutionalist and would never. No ambitious clerk would risk their career to leak something that was going to come out in 3 months anyway.

It’s either Robert’s trying to pull a waffling Kavanaugh off the majority so he (Robert’s) can write a more moderated decision that leaves in place some form of first term abortion, or the majority is floating this decision to soften the July blow.

You assume the leak came from (or at the direction of) a Justice, and not a clerk? I really can’t imagine a Justice other than Thomas and maybe Alito actually leaking an opinion, but I can definitely imagine a 26 year old clerk taking an extraordinary step like this (on either side of the aisle). 

[wildcat09 28,387]

I have a hard time imagining any clerk would leak without it being at the direction of or approved by their justice.

[lemonlime 5,482]

Just now, Reynolds Woodcock said:

You assume the leak came from (or at the direction of) a Justice, and not a clerk? I really can’t imagine a Justice other than Thomas and maybe Alito actually leaking an opinion, but I can definitely imagine a 26 year old clerk taking an extraordinary step like this (on either side of the aisle). 

I don't really give a fuck who leaked it.  But a clerk, likely in their 20s, would be torpedoing their career.  A justice would face no consequences.  Hell, a justice can vote to hide documents implicating his insurrectionist wife and there are no consequences.  There is nothing anyone could do to a justice who leaked this.  

[South Austin 51,409]

My completely speculative opinion is that the leak came from either a rogue clerk for a liberal justice or a clerk who leaked at the direction of their justice (whether liberal or conservative).

In any event, today at the U.S. Supreme Court has to be one of the most awkward work environments ever.

[Bateshorn 9,475]

1 minute ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

You assume the leak came from (or at the direction of) a Justice, and not a clerk? I really can’t imagine a Justice other than Thomas and maybe Alito actually leaking an opinion, but I can definitely imagine a 26 year old clerk taking an extraordinary step like this (on either side of the aisle). 

I think you underestimate how hard it is to be a clerk in the Supreme Court. Outside of being a justice, it is literally one of the most academically rigorous, elite, and hard to get jobs in the entire country.  It is required to even get on the tiny list of people who could get a future judicial appointment that would make you potentially eligible to be on the court itself.

The people that have made it that far will fucking stab you to get into Yale law.  No one who has worked that hard is going to leak an opinion to Politico without the assent I’d their justice and risk the hard work and luck it took to get to even that rarefied air.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How many healthy term infants are aborted in this country every year because the life of the mother is at risk? I would guess close to zero. 

There are several instances where an abortion would be the only option to save the mother’s life after first trimester and prior to viability outside the womb other than in a level four NICU. Infants who require that level of ICU care cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to support and have greatly diminished quality of life due to cognitive issues, G.I. issues, and heart/lung issues. Even if you believe the rights of a fetus supersede the rights of a woman, it would be insane public health policy to try and deliver and care for them as extreme preterm infants  

 

When I was in medical school on the OB rotation, we had a 20 something-year-old woman who in the middle of her second trimester was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of breast cancer. The oncologist recommended immediate double mastectomy and beginning chemo and radiation right away. Delaying the radiation and chemo to the point of fetal viability outside the womb meant very high likelihood of stage IV metastatic disease. Chemo and radiation would’ve killed the baby. Guess what this mother chose to do? Actually, it doesn’t matter what she chose the point is she had a choice. You would take that choice away 

Abortions that occur past the point of viability that doesn’t require heroic measures are usually for anencephaly or another lethal defect that for whatever reason wasn’t picked up earlier. It is cruel to make a woman carry such a pregnancy to term against her will knowing it is going to die. Such a pregnancy has happened to two couples close to me. The choice to abort or carry to term was and should remain theirs.

 

 

Your first example is a good one that is another extreme outlier. Probably about as common as late term abortions. But you’re basically trading a guaranteed death, for a possible one if we’re being cynical.

As to your second example, those can be induced to deliver early very easily at their size. It happens.

The end result here isn’t abortion being made illegal. Different states will have different rules. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't have the time or inclination to go back and read well over a hundred new posts, so if someone could answer this question I'd be grateful:

Is it true that Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Coney Barrett all asserted during confirmation hearings that Roe V Wade is settled law and should not be overturned?

Yes to the “settled law” part but they were silent as to the overturned part. It was assumed that they would respect 50 years of precedent, but this Court doesn’t give a single fuck about precedent, consistency, or anything other than advancing a blatantly partisan agenda. 

[Goredho 17,154]

I have very fluid and ambiguous feelings about the right to life/reproductive rights/abortion.  I am always uncomfortable discussing it, because I am not confident in what I personally believe to be correct and true.  But there is one aspect of the issue that I am highly confident in, and that is this:  This should not be a legal debate dominated and decided upon by men.

[South Austin 51,409]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

I think you underestimate how hard it is to be a clerk in the Supreme Court. Outside of being a justice, it is literally one of the most academically rigorous, elite, and hard to get jobs in the entire country.  It is required to even get on the tiny list of people who could get a future judicial appointment that would make you potentially eligible to be on the court itself.

The people that have made it that far will fucking stab you to get into Yale law.  No one who has worked that hard is going to leak an opinion to Politico without the assent I’d their justice and risk the hard work and luck it took to get to even that rarefied air.

I think the rogue clerk scenario is more unlikely.  But I can also envision, despite all the reasons you give for prestige associated with that position, a bright but extremely ideological, young, and short-sighted clerk thinking this bullshit was too much and leaking the opinion, either thinking they'll still find gainful employment if they're ever outed or not giving a fuck.

[Sawbonz 26,735]

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Your first example is a good one that is another extreme outlier. Probably about as common as late term abortions. But you’re basically trading a guaranteed death, for a possible one if we’re being cynical.

As to your second example, those can be induced to deliver early very easily at their size. It happens.

The end result here isn’t abortion being made illegal. Different states will have different rules. 

Your examples are much more extreme outliers and you are willing to suppress the rights of over half of the population of the country in order to protect those extreme examples. If this goes through, you are basically going to see the Balkanization of the United States. And it’s not going to end happily for you

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

Also, Politico was a choice. Not the Washington Post or the New York Times. 

[SimonBolivar 10,648]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

If this goes through, you are basically going to see the Balkanization of the United States. And it’s not going to end happily for you

I think Balkanization would make him very happy.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,672]

5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I have very fluid and ambiguous feelings about the right to life/reproductive rights/abortion.  I am always uncomfortable discussing it, because I am not confident in what I personally believe to be correct and true.

You need to fucking get over that.

Figure out your position. 

Do I get pleasure in fetuses being killed?  Nope.  But I favor a woman's rights over a situation where Republican men and their stepford wives  make the decision.

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,672]

11 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

if we’re being cynical.

Why in the world would anyone have reason to be cynical?

[Sawbonz 26,735]

Just now, SimonBolivar said:

I think Balkanization would make him very happy.

LOL I don’t think crypto is a viable hedge against the economic destruction we will see with a two (nation-) state country, especially when those states are not geographically contiguous. And that is without considering the partisan violence that will occur within the individual states. It happens everywhere attempts at minority rule have occurred

 

 

[Ghost of LL 15,225]

The whole episode is pretty bad for the Court.  The leak is embarrassing.  But the decision is catastrophic.

You've got a 5-4 decision to get rid of a something that has been settled as a constitutional right for 50 years, overturning a decision that at least three of them said in their confirmation hearings within the last five years was "settled law."  Each of those five justices were appointed by a president who lost the popular vote.  And now they have lifetime appointments.

These are people who have no electoral legitimacy, no democratic legitimacy, and now no intellectual legitimacy.  They are political hacks with lifetime tenure.

And you know what that makes them?  Tyrants.

[Goredho 17,154]

8 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

You need to fucking get over that.

Figure out your position. 

Do I get pleasure in fetuses being killed?  Nope.  But I favor a woman's rights over a situation where Republican men and their stepford wives  make the decision.

 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,585]

12 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I think you underestimate how hard it is to be a clerk in the Supreme Court. Outside of being a justice, it is literally one of the most academically rigorous, elite, and hard to get jobs in the entire country.  It is required to even get on the tiny list of people who could get a future judicial appointment that would make you potentially eligible to be on the court itself.

The people that have made it that far will fucking stab you to get into Yale law.  No one who has worked that hard is going to leak an opinion to Politico without the assent I’d their justice and risk the hard work and luck it took to get to even that rarefied air.

I don’t underestimate it; I know several (mostly because I’m on the hiring committee of a firm who hires them with some regularity, for better or worse). I just find it more believable that one of these admittedly very bright and very ambitious clerks decided to sound the alarm as opposed to one of the 7 Justices not named Clarence or Samuel. Roberts is such an institutionalist, it would shock me. That said, it’s certainly correct that one of the 9 would face no retribution whatsoever, while the clerk (if found) would have their career torpedoed. So maybe I’m wrong.
 

Ultimately doesn’t matter. What matters is that one side is now stacked with activists, and they aren’t stopping here.

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

lol at a SCOTUS clerk having their career torpedoed. That poor Ivy League law grad with Supreme Court experience I’m sure would have *such* a hard time finding any work. 

[South Austin 51,409]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You've got a 5-4 decision to get rid of a something that has been settled as a constitutional right for 50 years, overturning a decision that at least three of them said in their confirmation hearings within the last five years was "settled law."  Each of those five justices were appointed by a president who lost the popular vote.  And now they have lifetime appointments.

I hope some member of the minority in a dissenting opinion calls out those three justices for overturning a case they declared as settled law when they were advocating their nominations to the Court.  Maybe it's considered out of line under unwritten Supreme Court etiquette, but those justices and their bullshit before Congress should be expressly part of a published dissenting opinion.

[Starfleet Command 441]

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

lol at a SCOTUS clerk having their career torpedoed. That poor Ivy League law grad with Supreme Court experience I’m sure would have *such* a hard time finding any work. 

Even if they never practice law again there will be decades of MSNBC or FNC appearances (depending on which side they are on), books, money from bullshit think tanks and NGOs shoveled at him/her.

[TXSooner518 2,419]

The whole episode is pretty bad for the Court.  The leak is embarrassing.  But the decision is catastrophic.
You've got a 5-4 decision to get rid of a something that has been settled as a constitutional right for 50 years, overturning a decision that at least three of them said in their confirmation hearings within the last five years was "settled law."  Each of those five justices were appointed by a president who lost the popular vote.  And now they have lifetime appointments.
These are people who have no electoral legitimacy, no democratic legitimacy, and now no intellectual legitimacy.  They are political hacks with lifetime tenure.
And you know what that makes them?  Tyrants.

All so true and yet so many are fine with it as long as the wimmin and queers know their place.

[South Austin 51,409]

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

lol at a SCOTUS clerk having their career torpedoed. That poor Ivy League law grad with Supreme Court experience I’m sure would have *such* a hard time finding any work. 

Maybe, maybe not.  I'm sure there's a significant number of big firms who would otherwise throw tons of money at a U.S. Supreme Court clerk but will have reservations about whether this clerk (if the leaker was a clerk and is ever outed) might ever leak attorney-client privileged documents.  Same for high profile government jobs.  Will they be working at Foot Locker?  No.  But this will narrow some of their options. 

[Nivek 16,643]

10 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am not fine with any of this.  I bring up abortion in the case of rape or incest because it seems a special kind of cruel to force those women to carry a pregnancy to term.  Let's find out which members of the GQP are for that and make sure everyone knows.

I think forcing a woman to have a baby when she doesn't want to is complete bullshit all around.  

Maybe we can go back to the old standard of making the rapist marry the rape victim.  That'll learn them!

[Bateshorn 9,475]

 

2 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I'm sure there's a significant number of big firms who would otherwise throw tons of money at a U.S. Supreme Court clerk but will have reservations about whether this clerk (if the leaker was a clerk and is ever outed) might ever leak attorney-client privileged documents.  Same for high profile government jobs.  Will they be working at Foot Locker?  No.  But this will narrow some of their options. 

It’s an oddly niche field, given how hard it is to enter. I’m sure they could carve out a career as regular old lawyer, but you don’t climb that ladder so you can litigate spousal support in some podunk state court. 

[Fudge Nuggets 18,825]

10 hours ago, Pablo said:

just shoot this bitch already and put her out of her/our misery

Last week when I made my post that Collins should "eat shit", I originally posted "eat a bullet".  But I didn't want to wind up on some FBI watchlist so I edited it.

I'm glad to see others have more courage than I have.

[Chad Fuck 17,259]

Last week when I made my post that Collins should "eat shit", I originally posted "eat a bullet".  But I didn't want to wind up on some FBI watchlist so I edited it.
I'm glad to see others have more courage than I have.

It’s too late now. The puppy has already pissed the rug.

[Woland 695]

11 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

If your're a woman in this country, and you are in a relationship with a man that votes for, or supports republicans, you need to shut off pussy access IMMEDIATELY. 

They better shut it off fast because that type of action is going to made illegal in the future. Or marital rape will be made legal. One of the two.

[Nivek 16,643]

48 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Yes to the “settled law” part but they were silent as to the overturned part. It was assumed that they would respect 50 years of precedent, but this Court doesn’t give a single fuck about precedent, consistency, or anything other than advancing a blatantly partisan agenda. 

On NPR this morning a professor whose research interest is on the impacts of abortion rights on women and their economic opportunities remarked how none of the research cited by the supremes included anyone she ever heard of before or any established studies.   In other words, the supremes are pretending that this ruling will not have any impact or any known impact on women because they are intentionally ignorant.

Basically they are trying to Schrodinger's cat this situation.  We don't know if the person I shot point blank with my shotgun in the face was harmed because we refuse to open our eyes.  / supreme court logic.

[Pig Bellmont 8,637]

15 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

 

It’s an oddly niche field, given how hard it is to enter. I’m sure they could carve out a career as regular old lawyer, but you don’t climb that ladder so you can litigate spousal support in some podunk state court. 

If a clerk leaked it, and it’s outed, I guarantee he/she could pick their Big Law associate job with partner track tomorrow. 

[SimonBolivar 10,648]

 

[Hookah Horns 2,923]

9 hours ago, Jhawkmvp said:

An abortion rights bill was passed back in September, basically along party lines. but there is no way they have enough votes (60) in the senate to pass it over a filibuster. The Senate version was opposed by Manchin and Casey, as well. Republicans Murkowski and Collins have their own Senate version, but again unlikely the votes needed are there. The Democrats might suck at getting shit done, in general, but this is not on them.

Edit: The Dems can try to kill the filibuster to get it passed, but they have a couple loose cannons that have indicated they will oppose that.

If they did go nuclear to get it done, which as you note is impossible with Manchin and Kyrsten, the Rs would reverse it toot sweet when they get the majority back. And do a bunch of other horrible shit as well. 

[Neonmoon 38,126]

Other things deeply rooted in history:

Slavery

Murder

Rape

War

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Neonmoon

[Hookah Horns 2,923]

29 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

If a clerk leaked it, and it’s outed, I guarantee he/she could pick their Big Law associate job with partner track tomorrow. 

The leaker will definitely get leaked. There are too few suspects to get away with it.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Hookah Horns

[Nivek 16,643]

6 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

 

Prostitution is deeply rooted in history.....

[Poe It Up 126]

Wasn’t the Politico journalist on Maddow about 5 minutes after he published the story? That doesn’t scream majority leak to me. 

[Nivek 16,643]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Other things deeply rooted in history:

Slavery

Murder

Rape

War

 

integrated cartridges are not deeply rooted in history folks.  gonna have to turn in anything but a arquebus.