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horn4life

If Dems win in 2020 Should the Criminality of the Trump Administration be Prosecuted?

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Since the rule of law has been usurped, by the collusion to protect the President from his own wrongdoing I pose the question. Should the Dems (if they win the Presidency) prosecute the wrongdoings of the prior administration?  Never, ever, before would I have suggested such a thing. Simply because I think it takes us down a dark partisan path.  But since the GOP controlled Justice Department and GOP controlled Senate has refused to enforce the rule of law and already set us upon this path, should the Dems follow along this dark path?

Now let me be clear here, I am not talking about Trump's very likely incarceration for campaign finance law breaking that landed Cohen in prison.  I am talking about the next President taking a hard look back at what would be very, very easy to find criminality, by using the FBI and Justice Department to simply do some investigation.  Just as Republican Senators knew that any light shed upon Trump's actions would be very, very damning. Should the Justice Department investigate to find the truth?

I don't think it's the solution in all honesty.  I am simply posing the question. 

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Just now, David Dennison said:

Yes.

^^

this

but it won't. because democrats gonna democrat and will want to "move forward, not look backward"

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You go in "yes". What you have in your back pocket is a suite of anti-corruption legislation and Constitutional amendments intended to prevent anything like this ever happening.

You go to the GOP and offer two options:

Option 1: We spend the next 4-8 years investigating and prosecuting everyone. We will find Trump's taxes and publish them. We will find everything and search under every rock.
Option 2: You pass everything we propose to prevent this happening again and we let sleeping dogs lie.

---

What WILL happen? Nothing.

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It should, but it won't because Dems will say, 1/3 to 40% of the population as "political retribution."  The Dems will probably want to avoid that. 

The whole point is moot though, because I guaran-fucking-T you that smarmy son of a bitch Miller has a whole file drawer full of signed pardons from DOTUS himself on down to the least of his enablers ready to go.  All they need to do is date them and push them out as Trump is headed to his final trip on Marine One.

 

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2 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

its in the best interest of the country if everyone just forgets this whole episode, so no imo.

Disagree. It's in the best interest of the country for these fuckwits to realize that actions have consequences.

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You go in "yes". What you have in your back pocket is a suite of anti-corruption legislation and Constitutional amendments intended to prevent anything like this ever happening.

You go to the GOP and offer two options:

Option 1: We spend the next 4-8 years investigating and prosecuting everyone. We will find Trump's taxes and publish them. We will find everything and search under every rock.
Option 2: You pass everything we propose to prevent this happening again and we let sleeping dogs lie.

---

What WILL happen? Nothing.

First part - what should happen.

Second part - what will happen.

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Just now, Chad Fuck said:

It should, but it won't because Dems will say, 1/3 to 40% of the population as "political retribution."  The Dems will probably want to avoid that. 

The whole point is moot though, because I guaran-fucking-T you that smarmy son of a bitch Miller has a whole file drawer full of signed pardons from DOTUS himself on down to the least of his enablers ready to go.  All they need to do is date them and push them out as Trump is headed to his final trip on Marine One.

Then the State of New York needs to go in dry.

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Just now, David Dennison said:

Then the State of New York needs to go in dry.

Thats who it will be.

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Disagree. It's in the best interest of the country for these fuckwits to realize that actions have consequences.

This.  This aggression will not stand man.

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I think it's a good question.

I'd pursue graft as that is pretty cut and dried. I think the money crimes of trump and the GOP should provide enough fodder to get the small fish to flip and the big fish to fry.

I'm looking at you, Moscow Mitch.

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Then the State of New York needs to go in dry.

Yeah, totally forgot about those guys.  100% agree.

 

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12 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

its in the best interest of the country if everyone just forgets this whole episode, so no imo.

That's how we got Trump in the first place.

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It was good when Obama ignored W's war crimes and "moved forward" because it really taught the Republicans a good lesson about decency and following the rules and we haven't had any trouble from them since!

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Interesting intellectual exercise, but won't happen because the second 4 year Trump admin sure as hell won't prosecute the crimes of the first 4 years.

The Dems can't even agree on what party they want to be.  So they'll be two separate parties, with enough defections from the second-place wing, AND enough self-destructive infighting to turn off winnable voters, that we're locked-in for another Trump term.

And then, quite likely, a Trump Jr. or Ivanka term.  Democracy and the rule of law are already dead, we just haven't pulled the plug.  And the weak-ass opposition isn't going to be able to save it.

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2 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Well not with that attitude

Username doesn’t check out. 

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5 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Well not with that attitude

Just calling it like I see it.  I'm sending money to Dem candidates.  I will support whoever the Dems nominate.  Shit, I plan to take election day off and work the party legal hotlines and/or drive people to the polls as needed -- I'm in.  But I'm just watching the play on the field and it ain't looking good.

Edited by Brisketexan

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If the Democrats had the Presidency and Congress I'd like to see a whole sale revamping of the 3 branches to reset the legal process that allowed this to occur without failsafes. Prosecute Trump and any coverup enablers for any thing he/they weren't already impeached such as emollients and go from there.

Not going to happen, but viva the revolution.

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I would be happy if all of the Russian money was exposed, complete with who took it.   Cue the audio about who the Russians are paying, and that Republicans should keep it in the family.  

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4 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Username doesn’t check out. 

Takes someone like Bernie to reel me back in. You know he actually says and does things that make sense.

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1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

If the Democrats had the Presidency and Congress I'd like to see a whole sale revamping of the 3 branches to reset the legal process that allowed this to occur without failsafes. Prosecute Trump and any coverup enablers for any thing he/they weren't already impeached such as emollients and go from there.

Not going to happen, but viva the revolution.

Let's say Dem's win WH and Congress.  They pass a bunch of failsafes.  Perhaps restrict foreign ownership of media.  Legislate away Citizens United.  Etc., etc.

What's to stop the conservative SCOTUS from overturning it all and giving power back to the minority GOP?

Nothing.

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The Democrats should sustain an all-out, indefatigable holy war aimed singularly at holding the GOP accountable, whether they win the White House or not. In the meantime, this means more impeachments, more investigations, etc. Their campaign message this year should be that they are going to root out the obvious corruption that has infected the GOP, and if they fail, we're all fucked. Poor, rich, black, white, gay, straight.

Every single voter needs to know that a vote for a Democrat means, more than anything else, a vote for restoring the rule of law.

At this point, if we don't step up the fight against the GOP in the political arena, we'll either be a wholly subjugated people, or we'll eventually be fighting an actual war.

So, what will the Democrats do? They'll probably continue the same strategy that's failed them in the past: appeasement.

Edited by ndawg

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For once I'm in agreement with bt.  You go in planning to hold everyone accountable for crimes committed by Trump and the Republicans, but if you can use that possibility to leverage real anti-corruption legislation, including an amendment to overturn Citizen's United, then you take the opportunity.  Our country will fail, if it hasn't already, if steps aren't taken to hold bad actors accountable.  That means setting an example and/or putting mechanisms in place to prevent those actions from taking place in the future.  

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Quote

If Dems win in 2020

 

giphy.gif

Believe me, I'd like to believe in Human Decency, but at this rate, as Brisket said, Outlook Not Good. 

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Yes - corruption that undermines democracy must be rooted out, exposed and punished - let the chips fall where they may. 

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It's possible the Dems shit the bed again, I will certainly give you that.  But I think this go round there are actually a lot of folks like Brisket, they are going to vote for whoever the Dem is in 2020. So while I am nervous about the outcome I honestly believe we are still a nation where a majority has a sense of right and wrong.  

So my argument to investigate is simply that I believe we are always better off knowing the truth. The problem is that the Dems actually enforcing the rule of law will be the EXACT justification for future GOP meritless investigations of a purely political nature.  That's the problem with the door the GOP has thrown open, by disallowing equal application of the law.

I am leaning towards put them in jail.  But as I said, it will simply justify more abuse of the rule of law by the GOP in the future.  So damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

 

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1 hour ago, horn4life said:

It's possible the Dems shit the bed again, I will certainly give you that.  But I think this go round there are actually a lot of folks like Brisket, they are going to vote for whoever the Dem is in 2020. So while I am nervous about the outcome I honestly believe we are still a nation where a majority has a sense of right and wrong.  

So my argument to investigate is simply that I believe we are always better off knowing the truth. The problem is that the Dems actually enforcing the rule of law will be the EXACT justification for future GOP meritless investigations of a purely political nature.  That's the problem with the door the GOP has thrown open, by disallowing equal application of the law.

I am leaning towards put them in jail.  But as I said, it will simply justify more abuse of the rule of law by the GOP in the future.  So damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

 

I'd rather be damned for doing, than damned for not.

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Yes.

You don’t ignore lawlessness and corruption to keep some mythical sense of decorum only one side practices.

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3 hours ago, ndawg said:

The Democrats should sustain an all-out, indefatigable holy war aimed singularly at holding the GOP accountable, whether they win the White House or not. In the meantime, this means more impeachments, more investigations, etc. Their campaign message this year should be that they are going to root out the obvious corruption that has infected the GOP, and if they fail, we're all fucked. Poor, rich, black, white, gay, straight.

Every single voter needs to know that a vote for a Democrat means, more than anything else, a vote for restoring the rule of law.

At this point, if we don't step up the fight against the GOP in the political arena, we'll either be a wholly subjugated people, or we'll eventually be fighting an actual war.

So, what will the Democrats do? They'll probably continue the same strategy that's failed them in the past: appeasement.

this was liz warren's plan until she got bogged down with right wing concern trolling about how she'd pay for bernie's m4a plan. 

 

shit like this has ruined us:

 

Edited by elfenix

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2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Nah. That's banana republic shit.

The lesson: get elected president and you and your family will never be held accountable for criminality. Neither will anyone in your administration.

Talk about banana republic shit.

Edited by David Dennison

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Pro tip: if you really have the goods on an actual crime, maybe, and I'm just spit balling here, you could have included them in the Articles of Impeachment? 

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

The lesson: get elected president and you and your family will never be held accountable for criminality. Neither will anyone in your administration.

Talk about banana republic shit.

Did you support all the clowns pissing about BUT HILLARY'S EMAILS?!?!?

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Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Pro tip: if you really have the goods on an actual crime, maybe, and I'm just spit balling here, you could have included them in the Articles of Impeachment? 

Pro tip: Impeachment is not about actual crimes. 

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

Did you support all the clowns pissing about BUT HILLARY'S EMAILS?!?!?

If she broke the law, prosecute her. 

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Just now, David Dennison said:

Pro tip: Impeachment is not about actual crimes. 

If there are actual crimes, you should include them.  That way you don't have to rely on nonsense like obstruction of congress.

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1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

If there are actual crimes, you should include them.  That way you don't have to rely on nonsense like obstruction of congress.

Why? It wouldn't matter.

Edited by David Dennison

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Why? It wouldn't matter.

You might get some bipartisan support for impeachment.  Like the GOP did with Clinton when they had him cold for perjury and obstruction of justice.  I mean the Democrats didn't a single fuck and acquitted, but there was some bipartisan support for impeachment at least. 

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You might get some bipartisan support for impeachment.  Like the GOP did with Clinton when they had him cold for perjury and obstruction of justice.  I mean the Democrats didn't a single fuck and acquitted, but there was some bipartisan support for impeachment at least. 

LOL

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4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Just calling it like I see it.  I'm sending money to Dem candidates.  I will support whoever the Dems nominate.  Shit, I plan to take election day off and work the party legal hotlines and/or drive people to the polls as needed -- I'm in.  But I'm just watching the play on the field and it ain't looking good.

Didn’t the Texas GOP just make that illegal in this state?

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You might get some bipartisan support for impeachment.  Like the GOP did with Clinton when they had him cold for perjury and obstruction of justice.  I mean the Democrats didn't a single fuck and acquitted, but there was some bipartisan support for impeachment at least. 

This is a fucking joke, right?  After the last week of seeing GOP Senators bend over backwards to say, "Yeah, we know he did it, but fuck it.  He's on our team."  

GTFO with your with your bullshit.  We all see through it.

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2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The Dems will never be in power again, they're too fucking incompetent.  This is the beginning of a dictatorship.

That's silly. The next president will be a Democrat.

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Just now, Chad Fuck said:

This is a fucking joke, right?  After the last week of seeing GOP Senators bend over backwards to say, "Yeah, we know he did it, but fuck it.  He's on our team."  

GTFO with your with your bullshit.  We all see through it.

That's not what they argued.  They argued even if he did do it, it is not an impeachable offense.

The we know he did it and yes it's an offense but fuck it he's on our team shit was done by the Senate Democrats with Bill Clinton.  Many are still there today.

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1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

That's not what they argued.  They argued even if he did do it, it is not an impeachable offense.

The we know he did it and yes it's an offense but fuck it he's on our team shit was done by the Senate Democrats with Bill Clinton.  Many are still there today.

Translation: he can do anything and we'll protect him because we are scared shitless of his base. We'll take our chances in the general.

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