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Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate

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11 hours ago, milkman said:


This is probably something I screwed up on. We pay 100% of the employees health insurance. Guess I didn’t figure we needed to document on a payroll stub since it’s 100% company funded.


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Just grab the # off your GL if you're funding 100%.   Or just grab it off your GL if you're subsidizing a piece.   Either way you're grabbing the company's portion of premiums that are out of pocket. 

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5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

January + February 2020 payrolls for the 30.2 million small businesses was $350billion. The number for funding the PPP was not coincidental. So, yeah, there aren’t $450billion in PPP requests lined up already. That’s dumb banker gossip and they don’t understand math or human behavior. 

Could it one day be underfunded by $100 billion? Sure. Day 1? No. 

1. I dont think you are understanding who all are submitting apps...Like I said up the thread we have 10b of small businesses in our data base alone that reflect 7500 fein's or so. We arent close to 1/30th of the market.

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1 hour ago, riloh05 said:

I think some expectations of actually receiving the loan funds need to be tempered. One of our banking partners anticipates 450b in loan apps Friday. This is a branch of a regional bank in a town of 75,000 people.

This is sobering, shocking, and woefully underfunded. Best of luck to you all.

Trivial things that make me surly.

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3 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

1. I dont think you are understanding who all are submitting apps...Like I said up the thread we have 10b of small businesses in our data base alone that reflect 7500 fein's or so. We arent close to 1/30th of the market.

What’s 2.?

I understand the situation just fine. People close to it overestimate it. That’s a normal psychological phenomenon. The quickest banks released forms to fill out yesterday. The true parameters weren’t even available to work off of before Tuesday evening. Anyone touting numbers yesterday was projecting, and doing so without their own legit data or anyone else’s. 

Like I said, man, I’m sure this thing will be underfunded, maybe quickly. But it won’t be underfunded on day 1 or probably month 1. If you think otherwise after actually thinking about the facts and data, then I will agree to disagree with you happily. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

What’s 2.?

I understand the situation just fine. People close to it overestimate it. That’s a normal psychological phenomenon. The quickest banks released forms to fill out yesterday. The true parameters weren’t even available to work off of before Tuesday evening. Anyone touting numbers yesterday was projecting, and doing so without their own legit data or anyone else’s. 

Like I said, man, I’m sure this thing will be underfunded, maybe quickly. But it won’t be underfunded on day 1 or probably month 1. If you think otherwise after actually thinking about the facts and data, then I will agree to disagree with you happily. 

2. Like I said up the thread we have 10b of small businesses in our data base alone that reflect 7500 fein's or so. We arent close to 1/30th of the market.

Key word was anticipates (friday) 450b. Shit if its 100b, 200b, hell even 1b for that location...its woefully underfunded.

Edited by riloh05

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I am convinced they should have executed this through the IRS.

They get all of the data on payroll from S and C tax returns.

Send out "contingent refunds" based on those amounts you would have a year to produce the required documents to keep the funds or repay as a loan to Treasury.  Keep the motherfucking bankers out of the middle.  

 

 

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This may have been mentioned up thread, but I didn’t see anything definitive. What about those of us who are self-employed? I don’t have employees nor do I have payroll. 

I thought I read that Schedule C filers can qualify for PPP. Basically, your “payroll” number is your profit. Is this correct?  And if so, how do I prove I used the money to pay myself?

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14 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I am convinced they should have executed this through the IRS.

Oh lawd sweet baby jesus no

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Just heard on CNBC that big bankers are sayin this program has very slim hopes of launching tomorrow, no way midnight.

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I'm now hearing you'll get "audited" and need to provide alot of receipts, etc. for the $10,000 advance, which is fine but I think alot of businesses are thinking it's just a small biz stimulus check the gov will automatically forgive no questions asked.  I assumed it wouldn't get much attention compared to the other loans but I don't think anyone really knows what/how this will go down.

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This may have been mentioned up thread, but I didn’t see anything definitive. What about those of us who are self-employed? I don’t have employees nor do I have payroll. 
I thought I read that Schedule C filers can qualify for PPP. Basically, your “payroll” number is your profit. Is this correct?  And if so, how do I prove I used the money to pay myself?

I haven’t seen a concrete answer on this either. I W-2 myself as well as take distributions but no employees.

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2 hours ago, YoungCounty said:

This may have been mentioned up thread, but I didn’t see anything definitive. What about those of us who are self-employed? I don’t have employees nor do I have payroll. 

I thought I read that Schedule C filers can qualify for PPP. Basically, your “payroll” number is your profit. Is this correct?  And if so, how do I prove I used the money to pay myself?

I've heard this will be done later through a second PPP application for 1099 people that will occur next week or beyond.  As far as proving your profit, they'll likely go off your Schedule C on the tax return.  The schedule that specifies your revenue, expenses and "profit".  

My guess is they'll never get around to the 1099 folks.  Just go get your $10K and be thankful for that.  

 

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2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I am convinced they should have executed this through the IRS.

They get all of the data on payroll from S and C tax returns.

Send out "contingent refunds" based on those amounts you would have a year to produce the required documents to keep the funds or repay as a loan to Treasury.  Keep the motherfucking bankers out of the middle.  

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2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I am convinced they should have executed this through the IRS.

They get all of the data on payroll from S and C tax returns.

Send out "contingent refunds" based on those amounts you would have a year to produce the required documents to keep the funds or repay as a loan to Treasury.  Keep the motherfucking bankers out of the middle.  

 

 

You obviously do not deal with the IRS on a regular basis.  

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7 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

You obviously do not deal with the IRS on a regular basis.  

Look. It's lose, lose.

 

You want to lose with just the IRS, or the IRS,  SBA and tight-ass Banks.

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38 minutes ago, ousuxndallas said:

I've heard this will be done later through a second PPP application for 1099 people that will occur next week or beyond.  As far as proving your profit, they'll likely go off your Schedule C on the tax return.  The schedule that specifies your revenue, expenses and "profit".  

My guess is they'll never get around to the 1099 folks.  Just go get your $10K and be thankful for that.  

 

Confirmed:

"Starting April 10, 2020, independent contractors and self-employed individuals can apply for and receive loans to cover their payroll and other certain expenses through existing SBA lenders."

 

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Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

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6 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

Funny you mention this. My primary biz is zero'd out right now, but I made a deal with a sanitizer manufacturer & we're going to try & move some of their products. I have plenty of space right now & can ship/package. Not a big capital outlay.

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3 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

we have a distribution company and have opened a new sales channel that is keeping us afloat.  didn't have the manpower to do that previously now it's all we have.  we are building that with an eye toward staffing it later when "the lights come back on" so it acts as a real boost to the bottom line but for now it's not growth we are still in the toilet on revenue.  sales goals at 5% of prior totals on a monthly basis.  so I don't know if that counts as growth but it hopefully will be then.

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I was listening to CNBC and they are reporting PPP launch failure and ongoing goat rodeo trying to get it going.

I spoke with a lender this afternoon who reported his organization was “hopeful” about tomorrow.  I don’t think he is particularly wired in where the rubber meets the road and pushing the canned line.

 

 

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the consensus among my in the trenches cohort is this is a circus.

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On 3/30/2020 at 10:02 PM, closetojumping said:

By the time I type this, over 430,000 companies will have filed for the EIDL since the site changes for the SBA this weekend. That’s not public info, but anyone who’s worked on e-commerce site launches knows that when you enable ordering from customers, you don’t start the first order at #1. It looks like they started this process at order 3300xxxxxxx. I was a part of 7 filings today and they went up from 231k i finish tonight at 429k. Sequential. 

Why does that matter? They’ve set aside the $10k “emergency loan” that is really a grant with $10billion as part of the CARES Act. That means that 1,000,000 companies will get it. They’ll be out of eligibility for that funding by some time Wednesday/Thursday. 

Get your money (and your filings) right. Got 4 more tomorrow that are a bit more complicated. Hope everyone here gets theirs. 

Was at 3,301,639,000 ish as of about 15 minutes ago.  

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The comments about separate bank accounts needed make no sense unless you are already co-mingling private funds with company funds, which is an incredibly bad idea in the first place.

As long as you track expenses with a proper chart of accounts and have a business bank account, and retain receipts, I can’t imagine you’d have any problems.

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4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The comments about separate bank accounts needed make no sense unless you are already co-mingling private funds with company funds, which is an incredibly bad idea in the first place.

As long as you track expenses with a proper chart of accounts and have a business bank account, and retain receipts, I can’t imagine you’d have any problems.

C'mon, let us have our freak out!

 

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Posted (edited)

rules out

open tomorrow

first come, first serve

documentation required is pretty lean (good)

contractors not included in payroll count for the loan amount

forgiveness further limited by a 25% max on non-payroll expenses allowed for forgiveness

1% rate

2 year term

6 months no payments, interest accrues

apply tomorrow (uh yesterday or today) or be at risk

Edited by troph

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1 hour ago, troph said:

rules out

open tomorrow

first come, first serve

documentation required is pretty lean (good)

contractors not included in payroll count for the loan amount

forgiveness further limited by a 25% max on non-payroll expenses allowed for forgiveness

1% rate

2 year term

6 months no payments, interest accrues

apply tomorrow (uh yesterday or today) or be at risk

I’ll believe it when I see it. 

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https://bankingjournal.aba.com/2020/04/treasury-sba-to-increase-rate-on-paycheck-protection-program-loans/
 

Let the shit show begin. Program is set to be ready to roll for approved lenders tonight and non-approved will have to submit info for instant approval. I have filled out applications for probably 10-15 different banks at this point and none of them have requested the same information, verification, calculations, etc. I’m about done hopefully. 

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12 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

We've conducted interviews the past 2 weeks( by phone)

 

They are starting to get interestinger...

 

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17 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

I just hired a guy last week and I'm looking at purchasing another piece of metal forming machinery.  The new guy is going to be fine after some training.  Getting the machinery out of Canada has been a beating. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Anyone actually considering making more of an effort to expand their business in this climate? I'm lucky that my side gig is just me with very little overhead. I'm actively looking at expanding my services and fill gaps where others are pulling back. 

I am. My consulting income remains steady and solid (actually +2 big projects since two weeks ago), but I'm using the extra time to build a low-cost freemium product for the industry I'm in. My consulting offerings fill a market void for companies around 2,000-5,000 employees. Product I'm building is trying to capture the 500-2,000 employee range that don't have offerings for them out in the marketplace. Right now I'm Perch fishing and eating well - this is an attempt to throw some nets out and catch a bunch of little fish all at once.

If I can get it to market before the COVID stuff is over or right a we come out of it, it could do really well. The folks I work with will all need a product like it coming out of it, and there's not one out there for less than six figures in recurring annual.

We'll see. It's keeping me busy anyway.

 

Edited by BradInATX

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I bank through a CU that is not SBA approved. I have relationships with almost all the preferred SBA lenders based on what I do, but none I’ve talked with are considering assisting those that are not current clients. Hurdles, I haz them.

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Watching Squawk Box this AM and they report one of the big "issues" for banks is the Feds refusal to remove money laundering regulations in regards to these loans.  It makes a lot of sense that would put the brakes on getting a loan from a bank that you don't have a relationship with.

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5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Watching Squawk Box this AM and they report one of the big "issues" for banks is the Feds refusal to remove money laundering regulations in regards to these loans.  It makes a lot of sense that would put the brakes on getting a loan from a bank that you don't have a relationship with.

that and as brew stated, no incentive to tie up capital here.  small org fees yes, but 1%?  they want forgivable loans and liquidity for current customers.  it's a pain in the ass.  my banker has been working lawyer hours or CPA in tax season hours.  but he feels a moral obligation to his customers well because he tells them he's here for them - one of those relationship banks.  ha.  most of them are not that, he's telling me he has to step up or he's been lying.  most banks don't really want this.

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1 minute ago, troph said:

that and as brew stated, no incentive to tie up capital here.  small org fees yes, but 1%?  they want forgivable loans and liquidity for current customers.  it's a pain in the ass.  my banker has been working lawyer hours or CPA in tax season hours.  but he feels a moral obligation to his customers well because he tells them he's here for them - one of those relationship banks.  ha.  most of them are not that, he's telling me he has to step up or he's been lying.  most banks don't really want this.

I totally agree.

They should have just done this directly to corporate tax filer(emphasized because of chapter S tax payments) through the Treasury.

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My banker has been very good about keeping me up to date.  Based on his email flow he's working crazy hours (for him) as stated above.  Clearly relationships matter during this.

As Troph said - his interest isn't about making these specific loans....it's about fulfilling his prior promises of "being there" and in the getting these done so he has businesses to call on when this is over.

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5 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

My banker has been very good about keeping me up to date.  Based on his email flow he's working crazy hours (for him) as stated above.  Clearly relationships matter during this.

As Troph said - his interest isn't about making these specific loans....it's about fulfilling his prior promises of "being there" and in the getting these done so he has businesses to call on when this is over.

Great, I don't think the issues are with the individual bankers.  It's the banks loan committee, underwriters and executive management.

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I think the only thing one can do in times like this is to knock them over with easy to use information.  I'd been compiling documents for the last few days based on his emails and other white papers / opinions I'd gathers from various sources.  When our bank's "final requirements" came out late last night, I had that information and more already on hand.  No different than many others I'd presume.

Hopefully it'll make his job easier and thus speed up the process as best it can.  All I can do is to make sure I'm not creating any hurdles from my side.  His dealings with funding mechanics are out of my control.

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Just now, Incredulity said:

Great, I don't think the issues are with the individual bankers.  It's the banks loan committee, underwriters and executive management.

Agreed.  I'd hate to be a new customer or a checking account only type that doesn't have name recognition or a history with above.

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It's interesting to see how differently large banks handle this vs small banks. B of A has an online app that's accepting already. Other banks are still trying to get the latest app in the hands of clients.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, ousuxndallas said:

It's interesting to see how differently large banks handle this vs small banks. B of A has an online app that's accepting already. Other banks are still trying to get the latest app in the hands of clients.

and other small banks are done with client approvals and asking for guarantees this morning and afternoon.

Edited by troph

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Just now, po elvis said:

anybody able to apply yet?

Have my apps ready to go.  Banker says tap the breaks.  They will have their version of the SBA app. 

a;sdknmkm\ce109u23,.sqa/#??!!%%o1doi kind of jacked up at this point.

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3 minutes ago, po elvis said:

anybody able to apply yet?

Didn't see any way that they'd be ready for this by now.   We'll see if by next week at this time. 

App isn't going to materially change.   Just have your info ready to populate whatever the / your bank provides. 

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1 hour ago, ousuxndallas said:

B of A has an online app that's accepting already.

Yep, just used it.

39 minutes ago, po elvis said:

anybody able to apply yet?

Yes

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I'm interviewing for a new role within our company that would include moving.  Might should be more cautious given our environment, but screw it.  Get rich or die trying.

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