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Gil Bang

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8 minutes ago, Bravo said:

VA just elected their 1st black woman to statewide office how is that bad?

I dunno. Is she a Republican? If so she’s an enabler of a shitty party that has no platform and no beliefs except cutting taxes for the very wealthy and attempting to overthrow democracy so they can impose a minority rule apartheid. 
 

The guy who won in Virginia, nobody has any clue what he actually believes in, which is fitting for his party. 
 

Thats how it’s bad. 

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7 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I am not sure he beats Biden or anyone else in a general. You want to flip the script on lackluster enthusiasm from Democrats when they have power and independents gravitating toward the party out of power? Put Trump on the ballot.

he doesn't have to win, he just has to continue installing the apparatus that will allow him to steal it.  the construction is already underway.

why do you think he keeps yelling about the 2020 election being stolen?  he doesn't actually believe it, but it doesn't matter.  he'll steal the 2024 election which will make dems yell, "he stole the election" and it'll look like bullshit mud-flinging from both sides.

that's step one of the trumper playbook - accuse the other side first of what you're already doing or plan to do.  it's a slow motion car wreck that the whole world can see coming, yet nobody knows how to stop it.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Horseshit.  CRT is defining individuals as either an oppressor or victim based on the color of their skin.  It is promoting anti-racism, which is saying there is no such thing as not racist ideas, only racist and anti-racist.  That a race neutral society is not desirable.  Some quotes from Kendi's book, which was on my 7th grader's school summer reading list:

A.     includes Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America by Jason Reynolds and Ibram X. Kendi.[1]

 

                                    a.     White people think more of themselves, which further attracts them to racist ideas;

                                    b.     Racist and anti-racist ideas have lived in human minds for nearly six hundred years. Born in Western Europe in the mid-1400s, racist ideas traveled to colonial America and have lived in the United States from its beginnings;”

                                    c.     To love capitalism is to end up loving racism;”

                                    d.     “I did not fully realize that the only thing extraordinary about White people is that they think something is extraordinary about them;”

                                    e.     There is no such thing as a not-racist idea, only racist ideas and anti-racist ideas;”

                                     f.     “Instead, they define policies not rigged for White people as racist. Ideas not centering White lives are racist. Beleaguered White racists who can’t imagine their lives not being the focus of a movement respond to ‘Black Lives Matter’ with ‘All Lives Matter;’”

                                    g.     “Embattled police officers who can’t imagine losing their right to racially profile and brutalize respond with ‘Blue Lives Matter;’”

                                    h.     Do-nothing climate policy is racist policy since the predominantly non-White global south is being victimized by climate change more than the Whiter global north, even as the Whiter global north is contributing more to its acceleration;”

                                     i.     Race is a mirage…they fail to realize that if we stop using racial categories, then we will not be able to identify racial inequality;”

                                     j.     “The most threatening racist movement is not the alt right’s unlikely drive for a White ethnostate but the regular American’s drive for a “race-neutral” one. The construct of race neutrality actually feeds the White nationalist victimhood;”

You cloak room nuts love this shit.  Most Americans do not.
 

Yes.  Keep this up.  Go more progressive.  Call everyone who disagrees with you a racist deplorable.  More woke.  I know Texas Hispanics love progressive white liberals and being called Latinx.

Double down.

You fuckers live in an echo chamber.  Twitter is not America.

Why is everything about race for you and how oppressed you supposedly are as a white man who was born into a ton of inherited money? I think you should seek professional help so you can finally get past this frankly ridiculous victim complex. Trump obviously never did but maybe it’s not too late for you. 

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11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the old misconception or myth is that political debate lives on two opposing sides of the same issue.  abortion, gun control, taxes.  the reality is that the real debate is over which issues matter at all.  the gop is currently winning that debate.

there's being right and there's what wins elections.  dems care too much about one and not enough about the other.

No doubt. The problem with the democrats is the very dynamic of their voter base. They’re a cross section of corporate whores that are smart enough to avoid the insanity of the GOP, feminists, LBGT rights activists, environmentalists, people who loathe the military industrial complex, so on and so forth. That’s too big of a tent for a major party to function.

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2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Why is everything about race for you and how oppressed you supposedly are as a white man who was born into a ton of inherited money? I think you should seek professional help so you can finally get past this frankly ridiculous victim complex. Trump obviously never did but maybe it’s not too late for you. 

White people in this country really don't want their kids to know about the bad things white people did and continue to do to non-white people. 

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3 minutes ago, Bravo said:

She is a republican but since she is on the wrong team I guess it's bad. I guess the 1st Latino AG is bad for VA too. Horrible election for minority candidates there. 

If they are republicans then yes it is bad.  It doesn’t matter what the color of their skin, if you’re a Republican politician you are almost always either a scumbag, an idiot or hopelessly naive. Witness the ongoing purge of anyone who opposed the trump insurrection. 

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3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Why is everything about race for you and how oppressed you supposedly are as a white man who was born into a ton of inherited money? I think you should seek professional help so you can finally get past this frankly ridiculous victim complex. Trump obviously never did but maybe it’s not too late for you. 

Psst...it's because he's really racist.

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3 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

No doubt. The problem with the democrats is the very dynamic of their voter base. They’re a cross section of corporate whores that are smart enough to avoid the insanity of the GOP, feminists, LBGT rights activists, environmentalists, people who loathe the military industrial complex, so on and so forth. That’s too big of a tent for a major party to function.

yep.  much easier to keep a narrow contingency in line than to herd cats.

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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Psst...it's because he's really racist.

No he’s not! While he thinks his black tenants are just plain lazy, he thinks his illegal Hispanic tenants are hardworking, even though they’re not really illegal (wink,wink) since he collected their fake SSN. No racist! 

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One thing that campaigns need to grapple with is that in this era, voters base choices not only on how much they like candidates. They are also deciding based on what that candidate’s most visible supporters do and say. (See: Owning the libs.) This is heady, lizard brain, tribalism shit and fighting it is pushing a rock up hill.

So keeping that in mind, consider this Facebook post. I pulled it from a suburban white woman VA voter who has tons of friends who voted in this VA election:

Quote

So, I’m not surprised on the one hand because of everything we’ve lived through in the past few years and of course, VA’s history of being a red state.  But on the other, I am surprised, because voters keep choosing hate and fear over the values I believe in, and that’s hard to swallow.  

 

If you, like me, want to see the death of Trumpism in this country, please turn off your gotdamn social media machine when you get the urge to tell people you really barely know that you think they are full of hate/driven by fear/racist/whatever bad thing you think about them, even if it’s true. Have a drink or something. 

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5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

White people in this country really don't want their kids to know about the bad things white people did and continue to do to non-white people. 

Shhh. You’re gonna cause the sack to vote for trump over Biden with your overly harsh tone. 

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4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

yep.  much easier to keep a narrow contingency in line than to herd cats.

The pitiful thing is that all they really need to do in order to become a functioning party is to cast aside just one of those entities I listed…

 

and I think we all know which one it is.

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From the responses I guess it doesn't matter at all outside of "all republicans are evil". 

Was this because turnout was low for one party or the other, was there a dramatic shift away from last election? This just doesn't seem to matter at all.

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8 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

 

No doubt. The problem with the democrats is the very dynamic of their voter base. They’re a cross section of corporate whores that are smart enough to avoid the insanity of the GOP, feminists, LBGT rights activists, environmentalists, people who loathe the military industrial complex, so on and so forth. That’s too big of a tent for a major party to function.

This has been my diagnosis/hypothesis for the past year. Way too many personalities and interests to align on a fuzzy consensus versus just general platitudes (e.g. CHANGE or HOPE or Not DJT).

I look at foreign country politics and think that is the future. Many, disparate parties that alone cannot carry a majority or a win, but must work together to create coalitions and deals (which are fluid/dynamic) in order to build a majority. It fosters cooperation, deal-making, give-to-get, etc. and punishes inertia and stone-walling because if you don't move to make a deal perhaps a coalition of your competitors are.

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1 minute ago, Bravo said:

Well, she is an immigrant, Marine and what appears to be a great person. Does she sound naive/scumbag or a great American? Seriously? Oh yeah, wrong team. That's a historic victory in the capital of the confederacy. Very symbolic. You can be a conservative and a minority believe it or not and not be the things you describe. 

I find it fascinating that you keep talking about this great woman just elected but have yet to even mention her name. 
 

Or did I miss that? 

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25 minutes ago, gmr548 said:


If Trump runs in the GOP primary he will be the nominee. To even entertain the idea of him losing the GOP primaries is insanity. He is an actual god among GOP primary voters. They will literally storm the Capitol and die for him. They will go down with the ship (on Lake Travis).

I am not sure he beats Biden or anyone else in a general. You want to flip the script on lackluster enthusiasm from Democrats when they have power and independents gravitating toward the party out of power? Put Trump on the ballot.

If there’s any other GOP nominee they’re in as good of a position as one can be against an incumbent President.

I don't even think it will be an incumbent president unless it's Harris b/c Biden doesn't serve out his term. I can't imagine him running again at 82 years old.  I just can't fathom it will happen.  

Yeah- Trumpism needs to stay dead. It won't b/c God hates me. Probably for posting on Surly and/or touching myself. 

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3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I find it fascinating that you keep talking about this great woman just elected but have yet to even mention her name. 

or policy positions.  for either of them.  but it's identity politics at this point.  the same shit they get pissy about when it happens on the left.  

they're not confessing, they're bragging.

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Just now, henrygandorf said:

or policy positions.  for either of them.  but it's identity politics at this point.  the same shit they get pissy about when it happens on the left.  

they're not confessing, they're bragging.

Yep, its just trump at one of his hate rallies pointing out his black supporter. Or sticking a black dude behind the camera in a maga hat. Makes the sacks of the world feel better about themselves. 

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9 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Well, she is an immigrant, Marine and what appears to be a great person. Does she sound naive/scumbag or a great American? Seriously? Oh yeah, wrong team. That's a historic victory in the capital of the confederacy. Very symbolic. You can be a conservative and a minority believe it or not and not be the things you describe. 

Sure you can, you just can't be a Republican. That removes all of your credibility as a conservative minority.

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4 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I look at foreign country politics and think that is the future. Many, disparate parties that alone cannot carry a majority or a win, but must work together to create coalitions and deals (which are fluid/dynamic) in order to build a majority. It fosters cooperation, deal-making, give-to-get, etc. and punishes inertia and stone-walling because if you don't move to make a deal perhaps a coalition of your competitors are.

as much as this endgame makes sense, it will never happen barring a total collapse and rebuild and i don't know exactly what that looks like or how it happens.  also the gop would somehow have to "go along to get along" and that will never ever happen.

the reason the gop works is because they have a unified mission - nothing.  they are obstructionists.  they decided that the country was done evolving sometime in the late 1950's, and pretty much everything they do is in aid of that. 

people who say "the country is moving right" say that not because entire chunks of the population's views are changing. they say it because the people who are already on the right are moving further right.  race, religion, women's rights, voting, whatever you choose - it's regression politics and the goal is inefficiency. 

gop claims to want smaller govt/less govt control.  you do this by convincing the public that the govt is bloated, slow-moving, and inefficient.  you prove this out by (1) obstructing progress trying to be made by dems in office (see what's happening currently with 2 bills that poll extremely with americans) and (2) by doing nothing when you're in office. 

then you can turn to the voters and say, "see, i told you."

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37 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Well, she is an immigrant, Marine and what appears to be a great person. Does she sound naive/scumbag or a great American? Seriously? Oh yeah, wrong team. That's a historic victory in the capital of the confederacy. Very symbolic. You can be a conservative and a minority believe it or not and not be the things you describe. 

It's possible I suppose. The Republicans that I know in my racial group all dislike poor people, some dislike certain other minorities (i.e. racist), and almost all of them put white people on a pedestal. 

EDIT: forgot that most of them hate immigrants too despite being immigrants themselves and don't want them to have the same opportunities that they were afforded when they came here

Edited by Bevo14
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1 minute ago, Bravo said:

OK, I knew all these things about her but didn't know her name after reading an entire write up on her. Makes sense. Odd thing you're focusing on. 

Well let me spell it out for you then.

You don’t give a shit about her name. You don’t give a shit about her policy positions.

The only thing at all you care about is she is a minority republican so you can point to her and claim you and your fellow scumbag republicans are somehow not racist. She’s a useful tool to you. It’s as simple as that. 

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The Republican Party exists to use the government to enact policies that will funnel money to the top of the capitalist pyramid. They use cultural and racial fears to garner votes from individuals who will in no way benefit from those policies.

It's been like this for well over a century.

Edited by David Dennison
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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Republican Party exists to use the government to enact policies that will funnel money to the top of the capitalist pyramid. They use cultural and racial fears to garner votes from individuals who will in no way benefit from those policies.

It's been like this for well over a century.

Yep. After the civil war the party of Lincoln got completely corrupted and this is its sole and only purpose. You can debate when it ultimately became that way but by the early 1920s there was no doubt about it.

Many of us got duped along the way, myself included. 

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1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Not in the slightest. All they have to do is reframe the issue into some bullshit over which they can work up their base. Happens every time:

1988? Willie Horton!!!
1992? Clinton protested the Vietnam War…ON FOREIGN SOIL!!!
1996? Partial birth abortion!
2000? Al Gore “was there” when Bill Clinton was getting blown by Monica!
2004? Gay marriage!
2008? Obama read Saul Alinsky one time!
2012? SAUL ALINSKY!
2016? Crooked Hillary!
2020? Evil democrats are trying to steal your vote!

When you do that, you can easily con people into voting for you. Tell me, how’s that Trickle Down Economics thing working? I’m sure it’s great for people that earn more than 99% of the country, but what about those millions of people who live well below that income line that haven’t seen any benefit whatsoever to Voodoo policies?

You missed one of the biggest con jobs from the Right: John Kerry and Swiftboating. 

Remember how the Right claimed that Kerry overemphasized his role in the Vietnam war and therefore wasn't fit for President. Even though the Right never denied that Kerry fought and risked his life in Vietnam while Bush spent the Vietnam war at Ellington Field in Houston. But Bush was the more patriotic, military man in the eyes.

The Right lied about Kerry's service and never got anyone to directly refute any claim from Kerry. The main complaints by anyone remotely close to Kerry was due more to the military handing out too many medals in Vietnam. 

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11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

as much as this endgame makes sense, it will never happen barring a total collapse and rebuild and i don't know exactly what that looks like or how it happens.  also the gop would somehow have to "go along to get along" and that will never ever happen.

the reason the gop works is because they have a unified mission - nothing.  they are obstructionists.  they decided that the country was done evolving sometime in the late 1950's, and pretty much everything they do is in aid of that. 

people who say "the country is moving right" say that not because entire chunks of the population's views are changing. they say it because the people who are already on the right are moving further right.  race, religion, women's rights, voting, whatever you choose - it's regression politics and the goal is inefficiency. 

gop claims to want smaller govt/less govt control.  you do this by convincing the public that the govt is bloated, slow-moving, and inefficient.  you prove this out by (1) obstructing progress trying to be made by dems in office (see what's happening currently with 2 bills that poll extremely with americans) and (2) by doing nothing when you're in office. 

then you can turn to the voters and say, "see, i told you."

It's a story as old as time; Democratic-Republicans versus Federalists, etc.

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1 minute ago, Bravo said:

Or you were calling the election of the new Gov as horrible for minorities in VA but 2 out of the 3 top Statewide offices went to republican minorities. Which seems like a logical disconnect in your ridiculous argument. You can't deal with that. It makes your brain melt so attack the messenger from page 1 of the Dem playbook and infer or just call me racist. 

Who farted? 

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2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Or you were calling the election of the new Gov as horrible for minorities in VA but 2 out of the 3 top Statewide offices went to republican minorities. Which seems like a logical disconnect in your ridiculous argument. You can't deal with that. It makes your brain melt so attack the messenger from page 1 of the Dem playbook and infer or just call me racist. 

Republican minorities in office are horrible for minorities because of the policies they endorse.

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3 hours ago, yoladu said:

When Dems do that kind of stuff it is called pandering.

Democrats never talk about lowering taxes, it's always we need more money to pay for this protect, and that project.  Republicans pander with their own hot button issues, but lower taxes ain't a democrat tool.

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Democrats never talk about lowering taxes, it's always we need more money to pay for this protect, and that project.  Republicans pander with their own hot button issues, but lower taxes ain't a democrat tool.

Democrats always talk about lowering taxes, but it's mainly for the poor so it doesn't count for Republicans.

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Republican Party exists to use the government to enact policies that will funnel money to the top of the capitalist pyramid. They use cultural and racial fears to garner votes from individuals who will in no way benefit from those policies.

It's been like this for well over a century.

Uhh you know that regardless of party, elected officials enrich themselves, and their cronies when in office. Just look at the rise in wealth before, and after they're elected to office. 

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Democrats always talk about lowering taxes, but it's mainly for the poor so it doesn't count for Republicans.

Oh yeah thats'a right lets lower taxes for people who don't even pay taxes to begin with typically. The middle gets soaked for the lions share and that's by design and endorsed by republicans, and democrats alike

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1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Uhh you know that regardless of party, elected officials enrich themselves, and their cronies when in office. Just look at the rise in wealth before, and after they're elected to office. 

Maybe, but only one party exists specifically to benefit the wealthy with policies enforced by the government.

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Name one Republican in office whose policies improve the lives of non-white Americans.
I know it's tough to see in your pasty world, but are quite a few happy and successful non whites in places like Texas, Georgia and Florida. You should do yourself a favor and get to know them.
This will be the case as long as white people have a disproportionate amount of political power.
And how much of that political power have you personally given up for the cause, friend?
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3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh yeah thats'a right lets lower taxes for people who don't even pay taxes to begin with typically. The middle gets soaked for the lions share and that's by design and endorsed by republicans, and democrats alike

They do pay taxes. Lots of them. They just aren't the kind of taxes Republicans whine about.

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7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Democrats never talk about lowering taxes, it's always we need more money to pay for this protect, and that project.  Republicans pander with their own hot button issues, but lower taxes ain't a democrat tool.

My point was the pandering itself, not what specifically gets dangled to one's constituency.

 

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41 minutes ago, immamac said:

From the responses I guess it doesn't matter at all outside of "all republicans are evil". 

Was this because turnout was low for one party or the other, was there a dramatic shift away from last election? This just doesn't seem to matter at all.

Turnout in Virginia was good for both parties.  The GOP candidate managed to pry away some voters who had supported Biden in the last election, based on a number of factors, mostly surrounding education. The voters the GOP pried away were recent anti trump, suburban dem converts.  To put it in Texas terms: those new dem voters in Williamson or Tarrant county aren’t ride or die with the Democratic Party.

New Jersey surprised everyone, but seems indicative of GOP anger and Dem low excitement.

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2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I know it's tough to see in your pasty world, but are quite a few happy and successful non whites in places like Texas, Georgia and Florida. You should do yourself a favor and get to know them. And how much of that political power have you personally given up for the cause, friend?

Few being the key word. If this country were truly equitable and not one based on a racial caste system, there would be a lot more.

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