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C-Man

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10 minutes ago, bigup2dahorns said:


Also thought that place was solid

It’s been years, and the bbq scene in dfw has certainly improved significantly in that time, so who knows if I would feel the same today, but I always thought it was pretty good as well.  The Central Market thing is very weird to me.  For those who have never been, this is a photo of the Garland location.

DE275CA5-087C-45CC-82E9-AAFD3C9E9476.thumb.jpeg.ef6c0d4df46ff39f46c57be898737612.jpeg

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On 2/9/2023 at 12:01 AM, C-Man said:

Quick PSA: I'm not chairman this year but our Big Texas BBQ Rib & Appetizer Cook-Off is scheduled for 3/25 at the Cotton Bowl. Shane Smith & the Saints headline the music.

https://tdclubdallas.org/event/big-texas-bbq-2023/

Bumping this as a reminder. This goes down a week from tomorrow. $25 gets you in the door. You can walk around and many teams will be giving out samples but they're not required. $100 gets you in the door, gives you unlimited booze, BBQ samples from professional BBQ cookers and also admission for the Shane Smith show, which starts at 4:30. In all honesty, you'll be able to hear (and probably see) Shane Smith on the regular GA ticket but I don't 100% know the layout for this year. You will not be able to buy alcohol at the event. $175 ticket gets access to special VIP areas during the Shane Smith show. Event ends around 6.

Come out and meet Tootsie. I have a strong feeling she'll probably post-up in our team spot once she makes the lap of the event to talk to everybody.

 

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skimmed and did not see it mentioned, but we hit up Ken Rathbun's Curbside BBQ on the Katy Trail about a month ago.  They did not have their liquor license yet and were serving free beer/hard seltzer (limit 2 lol).  Tried the ribs and brisket and both were really good (ribs especially were tender with a nice light bark).  did not snap any pics, sorry.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/restaurants/kent-rathbun-opens-a-barbecue-trailer-on-the-katy-trail-16154906

here is the observer article.  There is a small parking lot and street parking close by.  or park at the trail head and walk down KT to it.  It's all outdoor seating (just a trailer prepping food) and doggo friendly.

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On 4/4/2023 at 10:09 AM, gyroprotagonist said:

skimmed and did not see it mentioned, but we hit up Ken Rathbun's Curbside BBQ on the Katy Trail about a month ago.  They did not have their liquor license yet and were serving free beer/hard seltzer (limit 2 lol).  Tried the ribs and brisket and both were really good (ribs especially were tender with a nice light bark).  did not snap any pics, sorry.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/restaurants/kent-rathbun-opens-a-barbecue-trailer-on-the-katy-trail-16154906

here is the observer article.  There is a small parking lot and street parking close by.  or park at the trail head and walk down KT to it.  It's all outdoor seating (just a trailer prepping food) and doggo friendly.

He's in the Lover's Seafood parking lot on Sundays. It's good but I recall it being pretty spendy.

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skimmed and did not see it mentioned, but we hit up Ken Rathbun's Curbside BBQ on the Katy Trail about a month ago.  They did not have their liquor license yet and were serving free beer/hard seltzer (limit 2 lol).  Tried the ribs and brisket and both were really good (ribs especially were tender with a nice light bark).  did not snap any pics, sorry.
https://www.dallasobserver.com/restaurants/kent-rathbun-opens-a-barbecue-trailer-on-the-katy-trail-16154906
here is the observer article.  There is a small parking lot and street parking close by.  or park at the trail head and walk down KT to it.  It's all outdoor seating (just a trailer prepping food) and doggo friendly.

My wife and I stopped by there today. What a cool spot. Wish they had more beer options than Aikman’s beer but whatever — it’s free! They had wine and liquor as well. Got the brisket sandwich with baked potato salad as the side. Was disappointed that it was chopped beef — would’ve preferred sliced. It was good though.

As long as the weather is nice, I’ll be back. It’s a killer deck and once they get their liquor license, it should be even better.
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Had a client meeting in Addison this morning. It was right about 11 when we got out so I thought, hell I have't been to Cattleack in ages. Let's go see what the line looks like. Since it's so hot, maybe the line would be short. I drove by and the line was out the door and down the side of the building. It wasn't too bad, though, so I parked my car and got in line. There's a pop-up tent/canopy and you can stand up against the building and get in the shade. I scrolled through some work emails, traded texts with a buddy who was buying Flaming Lips tickets for he and his wife and me and my wife. Didn't take long until I was inside. The line no longer switches back-and-forth inside. It's basically a single-file line along the wall. Once you get to the door, you're in good shape. Got through the line, had my food and was seated a little before noon. Ate some and packed up the rest -- plenty of leftovers, which is how I roll.
The verdict is that the 'cue is still top-notch. But I think it's fallen behind Terry Black's on overall experience for me. The meat is still really, really good. But I'm annoyed that they don't have fresh brewed ice tea. That's just weird to me. I ordered unsweet tea and received a bottle of something called Texas Unsweet Tea or something. How hard is it to have a fresh tea station? Also, the sides are very uninspired. I love beans and potato salad. Got those today and very average IMO. I don't usually do collard greens and didn't want hatch mac/cheese today. I've also never been love with Cattleack's ribs. Ordered them anyway. They're OK, bordering on good, but not what I'd expect at a Texas Top 10 place.
Misty is a total sweetheart but Todd can be kind of a prick and I get an overall vibe that they're not really there to help you out in any way.

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On 8/7/2023 at 5:22 PM, C-Man said:

David Beckham decides to get BBQ while in town with his Inter Miami team. Where does he go? Hutchins in Frisco? Nope. Blu's Barbecue.

 

I’ve been to Blu’s since I don’t live too far away. Why in the world would he choose there, some corporate connection? Also, I agree with your Cattleack assessment. The total experience just doesn’t blow me away for the hype. 

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On 8/7/2023 at 5:22 PM, C-Man said:

David Beckham decides to get BBQ while in town with his Inter Miami team. Where does he go? Hutchins in Frisco. Nope. Blu's Barbecue.

I tried to like Blu’s.  I wanted to like it because it’s pretty convenient, but two bad trips in a row gets you crossed off the list.  The meat was fine, not great, but they served me beans that had been sitting for so long that a crust had formed.  I drive by it all the time and it’s never crossed my mind to try it again.  Weird for a non-local celeb to end up there.

 

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4 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I tried to like Blu’s.  I wanted to like it because it’s pretty convenient, but two bad trips in a row gets you crossed off the list.  The meat was fine, not great, but they served me beans that had been sitting for so long that a crust had formed.  I drive by it all the time and it’s never crossed my mind to try it again.  Weird for a non-local celeb to end up there.

 

I think the owner is quite a self-promoter, at least that's my memory from when he opened a couple of years back.

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7 hours ago, C-Man said:

I think the owner is quite a self-promoter, at least that's my memory from when he opened a couple of years back.

II’m basically equidistant from Blu’s and Ten50, and ten50 gets my money for above average bbq in the n. Dallas/Richardson area.  Overpriced?  Yes.  Could I go north or south and get better?  Absofuckinglutely.  But convenience wins out on weeknights when you want some takeout.  I will tolerate a bunch of shit if I like your food, but Blu’s sides turned me off to the point of not going back.  It was as if they made the sides once a week and just let them sit in the stainless steel containers at the counter unrefrigerated.  Maybe they stuck them in the fridge at the end of the day and took them back out and reheated them the next morning.  Either way, sides don’t make a meal, but they can certainly ruin one.

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Has anyone tried Strouderosa in Lake Highlands area? Think it's just a couple that were doing it on the side and now have a brick and mortar location.   Hearing good things around the neighborhood (or my wife is on mom's social media chatter) but no idea if it's people that don't know solid BBQ.  May try it this weekend. Would love just an above average option close by.  Think it's in the same shopping center as Mijas Taqueria (hidden gem discussed in Dallas Mexican food thread).

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Quote

Cattleack Barbeque in Farmers Branch has been sold to employee Andrew Castelan, a 34-year-old former accountant who left the business world for barbecue.

Founder Todd David says he’ll remain at the restaurant, working the meat-cutting station like he has since the restaurant opened in 2013 in a nondescript building in the shadow of Galleria Dallas. David started Cattleack as a hobby that eventually blossomed into one of the best barbecue joints in Texas. Even 10 years later, it still sells some of Dallas-Fort Worth’s best brisket.

“I’ll go back to doing what I love to do, which is cooking barbecue here,” David says. Castelan’s role as owner means he takes over the day-to-day business operations. Castelan bought Cattleack with his wife, Natalie Castelan, on Aug. 1, 2023.

The restaurant is currently open Thursday and Friday for lunch only, plus the first Saturday of the month. By fall, Andrew Castelan hopes to expand Cattleack’s hours to Saturday, still only at lunchtime.

The change makes sense: “Saturday is the best time to go get barbecue,” Cattleack’s founder says.

David is looking forward to more time to travel with his wife, Misty David, another fixture in the Cattleack line. But Todd David is not removing himself from the “hobby” he created.

“We’re not going anywhere,” he says. “I didn’t sell it to go do something else: I sold it to protect the future and the growth.

“It’s kind of an insurance policy — for my staff first and customers second.” 

---- 

Customers might naturally wonder if Cattleack’s younger owner has ambitions of scaling the restaurant to other locations. Or, opening more than a few days a week. Or expanding to dinner.

Nope. Castelan says a few days a week, lunch only, at one location, is what works.

“I don’t have a desire to add more locations,” the new owner says. “I’m not in it to franchise. I’m in it to make a good living for my wife and my kids and put out the best possible product for my customers every single day. I can’t do that with multiple locations. I love this too much.” 

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On 8/7/2023 at 5:22 PM, C-Man said:

David Beckham decides to get BBQ while in town with his Inter Miami team. Where does he go? Hutchins in Frisco? Nope. Blu's Barbecue.

 

I’m late but yea that place sucks. I used to live down the street and really wanted to like it but no thanks 

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On 8/9/2023 at 12:41 PM, Skipper said:

Has anyone tried Strouderosa in Lake Highlands area? Think it's just a couple that were doing it on the side and now have a brick and mortar location.   Hearing good things around the neighborhood (or my wife is on mom's social media chatter) but no idea if it's people that don't know solid BBQ.  May try it this weekend. Would love just an above average option close by.  Think it's in the same shopping center as Mijas Taqueria (hidden gem discussed in Dallas Mexican food thread).

Welp....... Hard pass on this place.  I went in really hopeful but for the meat, it was Cattleack prices at sub Rudy's quality.  Really disappointing and shocking quality at that price point ($29/pound for brisket).  It was also clear not smoking high quality meats as well.  The sides were all pretty solid but not even close to redeeming overall.   Put this in the category that if craving a BBQ sandwich might swing by but otherwise doubt I'll ever be back.   Crazy to me that neighborhood people were apparently talking this place up on social media.  It's clear many people just don't know good BBQ.  Seemed like a nice family that runs it but I'll be shocked if they make it.  If they really used to do competition, I'm guessing they just sacrificed quality trying to run a brick and mortar that's open 11-7.  

I still think an above average BBQ spot could kill it over here but this one aint it.

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@C-Man or anyone else in the bbq "business" so to speak:

I recently read about one of my favorite bbq places being sold (https://cattleackbbq.com/category/press/), and it was sold to the pitmaster who had apprenticed and worked there for a long time, etc. Figures and dollars were undisclosed and it got me thinking. I've seen a lot of M&A and typically there is a disclosure of the deal figures unless it's bad or embarrassing, but I don't know how small, one off operations like a bbq restaurant would work.

What would Cattleack be worth in your estimation, from a valuation to buy? How do you value a BBQ location? Do you take the 3 years gross receipts minus burn rate and you do a regular DCF model or something?

What do you guys in the business think a bbq shop like Cattleack is a) worth and b) what would you think is a price you'd buy it at?

I'm trying to understand did this guy sell his shop for $1mm, $10mm, 20mm?

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2 minutes ago, animaltobacco11 said:

@C-Man or anyone else in the bbq "business" so to speak:

I recently read about one of my favorite bbq places being sold (https://cattleackbbq.com/category/press/), and it was sold to the pitmaster who had apprenticed and worked there for a long time, etc. Figures and dollars were undisclosed and it got me thinking. I've seen a lot of M&A and typically there is a disclosure of the deal figures unless it's bad or embarrassing, but I don't know how small, one off operations like a bbq restaurant would work.

What would Cattleack be worth in your estimation, from a valuation to buy? How do you value a BBQ location? Do you take the 3 years gross receipts minus burn rate and you do a regular DCF model or something?

What do you guys in the business think a bbq shop like Cattleack is a) worth and b) what would you think is a price you'd buy it at?

I'm trying to understand did this guy sell his shop for $1mm, $10mm, 20mm?

I don't have a clue how you go about selling a restaurant business, what multiples you're looking at compared to other industries. But I'd bet this sale was under $1M. Not sure Cattleack owns the building or not (doubtful). I also don't think the head pit-master is going to have the means to come up with that much money if that's what was required. I think this sale happened because Todd and his wife want a little freedom to be away from the business and the pit-master plans to open/serve more days per week than their current schedule.

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7 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I don't have a clue how you go about selling a restaurant business, what multiples you're looking at compared to other industries. But I'd bet this sale was under $1M. Not sure Cattleack owns the building or not (doubtful). I also don't think the head pit-master is going to have the means to come up with that much money if that's what was required. I think this sale happened because Todd and his wife want a little freedom to be away from the business and the pit-master plans to open/serve more days per week than their current schedule.

If I recall you are a semi-pro bbq man. I guess what this question drives at is, there doesn't seem much high upside/money to the work here. BBQ really is a labor of love and passion project then, if you can have the best bbq business in Dallas and it's worth less than a $1mm. Whereas you can have a handful of crappy franchise locations of Dickey's and make 3x that.

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5 minutes ago, animaltobacco11 said:

If I recall you are a semi-pro bbq man. I guess what this question drives at is, there doesn't seem much high upside/money to the work here. BBQ really is a labor of love and passion project then, if you can have the best bbq business in Dallas and it's worth less than a $1mm. Whereas you can have a handful of crappy franchise locations of Dickey's and make 3x that.

All good questions. Goldee's is the #1 bbq spot in Texas according to TM and I bet that business isn't worth a squirt of piss other than the intellectual property of the guys who cook over there/own the business. There's nothing to buy really. Yes, the key to the restaurant business is all about volume -- volume does not lend itself to craft bbq except in few places. Good bbq takes many hours. You don't just slap a $75 ribeye under the broiler and serve it 20 mins later as part of a $400 food/drink tab like at Al Biernat's.

There are some terrific places putting out great food that aren't monetarily successful. Snow's kills it but that's a unicorn and I wonder what happens when Tootsie's gone.

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1 hour ago, C-Man said:

All good questions. Goldee's is the #1 bbq spot in Texas according to TM and I bet that business isn't worth a squirt of piss other than the intellectual property of the guys who cook over there/own the business. There's nothing to buy really. Yes, the key to the restaurant business is all about volume -- volume does not lend itself to craft bbq except in few places. Good bbq takes many hours. You don't just slap a $75 ribeye under the broiler and serve it 20 mins later as part of a $400 food/drink tab like at Al Biernat's.

There are some terrific places putting out great food that aren't monetarily successful. Snow's kills it but that's a unicorn and I wonder what happens when Tootsie's gone.

Goldees is a bit of a unique situation compared to everyone else i think? they own their building and there is whatever other $$ they get from the rub and bbq sauce distribution deal they have in place (i think they are in every single walmart in Texas?)

the nitty gritty is where i get interested. like Leroy and Lewis for example i know goes so far above and beyond to re-use every scrap, how does that impact their bottom line vs somewhere like Insterstellar? how much more are they out here making open 11a to 9p 5 days a week vs say Sunbird or other spots that are open lunch to sellout (say 11-3) 4 days a week?

all this is to say you are right, you aren't getting into the BBQ business because you want to make a shitload of money. it's a low margin business from the start but then you talk about weight shrinkage being much higher than most other businesses (meat/brisket shrinkage when cooking, not inventory shrinkage), the high cost of brisket these days, etc and it's a TOUGH business.

how many actually good BBQ spots have we seen sell to someone, then keep it rolling at a super high level? not many. there is a reason you don't see private equity jumping into BBQ even though it's super fucking hot right now.

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39 minutes ago, NoName said:

Goldees is a bit of a unique situation compared to everyone else i think? they own their building and there is whatever other $$ they get from the rub and bbq sauce distribution deal they have in place (i think they are in every single walmart in Texas?)

the nitty gritty is where i get interested. like Leroy and Lewis for example i know goes so far above and beyond to re-use every scrap, how does that impact their bottom line vs somewhere like Insterstellar? how much more are they out here making open 11a to 9p 5 days a week vs say Sunbird or other spots that are open lunch to sellout (say 11-3) 4 days a week?

all this is to say you are right, you aren't getting into the BBQ business because you want to make a shitload of money. it's a low margin business from the start but then you talk about weight shrinkage being much higher than most other businesses (meat/brisket shrinkage when cooking, not inventory shrinkage), the high cost of brisket these days, etc and it's a TOUGH business.

how many actually good BBQ spots have we seen sell to someone, then keep it rolling at a super high level? not many. there is a reason you don't see private equity jumping into BBQ even though it's super fucking hot right now.

All of this. I was craving BBQ -- probably because of this thread -- and ran into Heim by Love Field on my way downtown to the office. I don't know how well they're doing but they seem to have done the best of job of marrying good (not great) BBQ with expanding and building a group of restaurants. I'm not sure how successful they all are but it's clear Travis and his wife are in it to build a business, not be in the TM Top 50 (good thing since they fell out). But they're serving tacos, have a bar and expanding beyond just BBQ.

Dickey's at one time was a pretty big business. Sonny Bryan's was once like 10 or so restaurants. My ex in-laws are good friends with the Harmon family who own/owned it forever. I think they still do but it's down to the one location by Love Field. We used to insure them back in the day and it did OK in the old days but never was killing it. Terry Black's is probably doing very well and they're up to three or so locations now, I think. Pinkerton is somebody who looks like he'd like to have a half-dozen or more places.

As @NoName said, nobody is getting into the BBQ game to get rich. There's way too many much easier ways to get wealthy in the food industry than that.

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I’ve had Tender’s at the original in Celina. It was very good.

I’m bbq’d out. Living in Arlington I’ve got a dozen top places around me, but still usually go to the drive thru at David’s which is Sonny Bryan’s nephew. It’s solid og barbecue basics. $20 a lb brisket and $14 LB really good ham and turkey I buy instead of deli meats.

Near me I’ve got Goldee’s, Hurtado, 225, Zavala’s, Off the Bone, and Jambo’s. Drive 20 more minutes and I’ve got Heim, Dayne’s, Panther City, Brix, Railhead, Slow Bone, Dylan’s, and a bunch more.

I don’t know why anyone would get in the bbq business. Food costs, labor, fuel, waste, rent, everything is stacked against making money in that enterprise.

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On 9/16/2023 at 3:04 PM, Texzilla58 said:

I’ve had Tender’s at the original in Celina. It was very good.

I’m bbq’d out. Living in Arlington I’ve got a dozen top places around me, but still usually go to the drive thru at David’s which is Sonny Bryan’s nephew. It’s solid og barbecue basics. $20 a lb brisket and $14 LB really good ham and turkey I buy instead of deli meats.

Near me I’ve got Goldee’s, Hurtado, 225, Zavala’s, Off the Bone, and Jambo’s. Drive 20 more minutes and I’ve got Heim, Dayne’s, Panther City, Brix, Railhead, Slow Bone, Dylan’s, and a bunch more.

I don’t know why anyone would get in the bbq business. Food costs, labor, fuel, waste, rent, everything is stacked against making money in that enterprise.

Used to go to David's on a weekly basis when I was in the Arlington newsroom for the Startle-Gram. I remember it being solid. I also remember their big ass block of cheddar cheese in the line.

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On 9/14/2023 at 10:38 AM, bigup2dahorns said:

Anyone tried Tender Smokehouse in Frisco?

I moved to Frisco and unfortunately it's the closest bbq around me (and Hurtado's shut down in the next town over, which was way better), but to answer your question it's not great.

The brisket is mid (as the kids say) and the ribs are pretty bad. The rub they use is overpowering and just not that great.

The sausage is mid.

Breakfast tacos are mid in the AM are mid.

All around it's just plain average and it sucks to pay a premium for average. I'd almost rather just go get a cheap chopped bbq sandwich than Tenders. I don't know, maybe I'm burnt out (no pun intended).

All that said, interesting tidbit, Torii Hunter of the Minnesota Twins and LA Angels Centerfielder fame owns it and his family is around and about in some of the locations from time to time. I've never seen him but I got to be friends with a lot of the long time workers. We don't bring up that sexual misconduct thing, it's a fireable offense to joke about.

 

Edited by AnimationTaco
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28 minutes ago, LonghornJones said:

I am also not a fan of waiting in line, and I stood there for 40 minutes once. Once.

I haven't been in a few months, but per emails I've been getting, it doesn't seem like lines have been as long on Thursdays and Fridays.   I don't think there is anything really in lake highlands worth spending money on that I've found. I've only tried One90 once, and it was ok, but it's not that much closer than Cattleack from my location.  Maybe I should give it another try though.

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Has anyone been to a Cousin's BBQ location in the wild? Apparently they offer $25 AYCE (https://cousinsbbq.com/)

I'm intrigued, as I remember going to Hutchins when it was AYCE and for the same price I could eat easily $75 worth of food, especially when in low-carb mode.

The one or two times I had Cousins was at the DFW airport and it was not memorable. As in, I don't even remember it, so it was probably mediocre?

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15 hours ago, BeardIP said:

What's the food review on the bbq like Deep East?

And yea lowering it is weird when everyone else in the world is increasing their cost.

It's priced like craft bbq, but the quality of the food is more akin to a franchise like Rudy's. Their brisket is really good, their ribs are average to above average, their sides are good. Their chicken quarters are smallish, but decent. Not a fan of the sausage, very rubbery. 
 

Overall, I visit there occasionally but the price keeps me from going more often, even though it's convenient. It's good, but I'd rather go elsewhere (Goldee's, Cattleack) if I'm in the mood for a great bbq experience. Picking up something after work for a quick dinner, it's perfect.
 

But Rudy's is better, and that's what I'd compare it to. The all you can eat special sounds like it would be worth it.  Go try it and see what you think, it's  worth a try. 
 

FYI, Texas Monthly put the Bryant Irvin location on it's Honorable Mention list from the top 50 issue in the 2017 timeframe, so there's that. 

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