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Posted
1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

I don't know this guy, but he screams New England and he calls out billionaires. Fuck it

 

 

I like this guy. This is what I mean about being centrist but not moderate, as in strong positions about shit that matters for a majority in a way that resonates with them. 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I like this guy. This is what I mean about being centrist but not moderate, as in strong positions about shit that matters for a majority in a way that resonates with them. 

Haven't delved in, what makes him centrist though

Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Haven't delved in, what makes him centrist though

the center is pissed, the center wants cheaper housing and universal healthcare and wants to actually do big things, not lose elections over a handful of special interest group purity tests. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

not lose elections over a handful of special interest group purity tests. 

Interesting, perhaps you should elaborate. Which special interests would cause Democrats to lose elections? Do you have data to back this up?

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Interesting, perhaps you should elaborate. Which special interests would cause Democrats to lose elections? Do you have data to back this up?

Are you not familiar with “The Groups”?

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Posted
4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

the center is pissed, the center wants cheaper housing and universal healthcare and wants to actually do big things, not lose elections over a handful of special interest group purity tests. 

Centrist politicians aren't going to get you universal healthcare.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Centrist politicians aren't going to get you universal healthcare.

 

Fuck that. No. Those are *moderate* politicians.
Universal healthcare IS the goddamn center, and if they won’t fight for stuff that 60+ percent of the voting population wants, they aren’t *centrist* politicians in 2025. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN LINGUISTIC FRAMES

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
42 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Fuck that. No. Those are *moderate* politicians.
Universal healthcare IS the goddamn center, and if they won’t fight for stuff that 60+ percent of the voting population wants, they aren’t *centrist* politicians in 2025. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN LINGUISTIC FRAMES

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

My guy, the majority electoral position in the country - the """MIDDLE""" - chose trump. Recalibrate your enthusiasm 

Posted
45 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Fuck that. No. Those are *moderate* politicians.
Universal healthcare IS the goddamn center, and if they won’t fight for stuff that 60+ percent of the voting population wants, they aren’t *centrist* politicians in 2025. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN LINGUISTIC FRAMES

That is some mighty fine dancing.

Posted
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
My guy, the majority electoral position in the country - the """MIDDLE""" - chose trump. Recalibrate your enthusiasm 

You’re right. But here’s the thing: Bozo also isn’t wrong. A huge chunk of Trump voters actually favor universal healthcare. They just vote against their interests and actual policy preferences because they are idiots, shitty people, etc…and because the Dems can’t communicate for shit.
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


You’re right. But here’s the thing: Bozo also isn’t wrong. A huge chunk of Trump voters actually favor universal healthcare. They just vote against their interests and actual policy preferences because they are idiots, shitty people, etc…and because the Dems can’t communicate for shit.

You know as well as I do that even if the Democrats could communicate for shit, those folks still wouldn't vote for them.

7 minutes ago, safe sex said:

They favor free healthcare for them and people like them. Not universal healthcare. And they'd rather have the shitty system we have now than people not like them also get free healthcare

The Office Thank You GIF

Edited by David Dennison
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, safe sex said:

They favor free healthcare for them and people like them. Not universal healthcare. And they'd rather have the shitty system we have now than people not like them also get free healthcare

No, don’t be silly. It’s not like they were ever offered that choice. They wanted a public option. When they were sold one they bought it. Twice. It was just never delivered. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING.

 

43 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

My guy, the majority electoral position in the country - the """MIDDLE""" - chose trump. 


Don’t be silly- the majority chose rejection of the status quo. Just as they did in 1976, 1980, 1992, 1994, 2000, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022 & 2024

STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
20 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, don’t be silly. It’s not like they were ever offered that choice. They wanted a public option. When they were sold one they bought it. Twice. It was just never delivered. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING.

 


Don’t be silly- the majority chose rejection of the status quo. Just as they did in 1976, 1980, 1992, 1994, 2000, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022 & 2024

STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING. 

By the time the bolded period came around, establishment Dems had become circa 70s/80s Republicans. It isn't just messaging hurting the party. Too many older Dems lacking the willingness to make a dramatic left turn on economic policy still hanging around. Just another reason I don't see a course correction in our future absent a major shock to the system. Something bigger than Covid.

Posted
By the time the bolded period came around, establishment Dems had become circa 70s/80s Republicans. It isn't just messaging hurting the party. Too many older Dems lacking the willingness to make a dramatic left turn on economic policy still hanging around. Just another reason I don't see a course correction in our future absent a major shock to the system. Something bigger than Covid.

End of the Republic should do it. Problem is, there won’t be a republic to win elections in anymore, so it won’t matter.
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Posted (edited)

I don’t see how anyone can defend the  Democratic Party and its leadership decisions in 2025. Absolutely pathetic and bozo is right here. The right messaging will get you votes. Dems fucking suck at messaging and new age media. It’s pathetic how divided the party is because of all the branches of identity politics within it. And you you don’t fully buy into them they just negatively portray you and call you names. Meanwhile their opposition is more welcoming regardless of their policy. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 And you you don’t fully buy into them they just negatively portray you and call you names. Meanwhile their opposition is more welcoming regardless of their policy. 

Again, is this really true? As an adult I don't think I've ever seen Dems actually in power, and when they """have""" it hasn't been Dems road blocking legislative efforts, or playing identity politics games.

Tbh, it feels like you and bozo are internalizing and evangelizing the MAGA framing and messaging by just "many people are saying Dems bad" as your whole commentary. 

 

It's not rank and file, it's the fish rotting from the head. It's not AOC or Mamdani being divisive or playing identity politics, but that's certainly how fox frames it to get the uncritical chuds onboard. And then the dem leadership is more than happy to tow that line for MAGA like a good controlled opposition does, because they're scared of letting go of their free insider trading meal ticket

Posted
7 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, don’t be silly. It’s not like they were ever offered that choice. They wanted a public option. When they were sold one they bought it. Twice. It was just never delivered. 
STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING.

 


Don’t be silly- the majority chose rejection of the status quo. Just as they did in 1976, 1980, 1992, 1994, 2000, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022 & 2024

STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING. 

Stop being dumbass. 

Posted
8 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

STOP INTERNALIZING REPUBLICAN FRAMING.

You support Cuomo over Mamdani. You think being anti-Israel is a losing position. You think open support of LGBT people is a losing position. We're not the ones internalizing Republican framing, buddy. Turn that mirror around. You're completely captured by internalized MAGA framing and you don't even realize it.

You still haven't provided that data I asked for.

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Stop being dumbass. 

The name is Dumas. And the American people want Universal Healthcare to the tune of 60-65% and have voted for it twice when it was at the center of Presidential campaigns. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The name is Dumas. And the American people want Universal Healthcare to the tune of 60-65% and have voted for it twice when it was at the center of Presidential campaigns. 

And then what happened?

Posted
35 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You support Cuomo over Mamdani

That’s false. I support Mamdani because he’s the best of the bad options. I’m just not excited about him, and I expect more of the same when he’s mayor. He’s DeBlasio Light. 

 

36 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You think being anti-Israel is a losing position.

I think being anti-genocide is a majoritarian, centrist position, not to mention a moral imperative. 

I think being “Anti-Israel”  is politically marginal and costly. 
 

38 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You think open support of LGBT people is a losing position.

That’s categorically false. That said, social equality is NOT a substitute for class solidarity when it comes to holding the Democratic voting coalition together.  
 

39 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You still haven't provided that data I asked for.

Thats why I asked you if you knew what I was referring to with “The Groups.”
 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And then what happened?

Well in Clinton’s case, the plan was clunky and they put the most inept and tone-deaf person in the administration in charge of running it through the system, and then they lost their nerve. 
In Obama’s case, they stupidly tried to pass cap and trade first, then allowed the Senate to come up with their own plan, then Max Baucus got okey-doked by Charles Grassley, they lost legislative momentum, and then they lost their nerve when the bullets started flying and backed off. 
A majority of the American people have been supportive of Universal Healthcare for decades. Republicans have just brainfucked progressives into thinking otherwise. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well in Clinton’s case, the plan was clunky and they put the most inept and tone-deaf person in the administration in charge of running it through the system, and then they lost their nerve. 
In Obama’s case, they stupidly tried to pass cap and trade first, then allowed the Senate to come up with their own plan, then Max Baucus got okey-doked by Charles Grassley, they lost legislative momentum, and then they lost their nerve when the bullets started flying and backed off. 
A majority of the American people have been supportive of Universal Healthcare for decades. Republicans have just brainfucked progressives into thinking otherwise. 

Tell us about Joe Lieberman.

Posted
4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Tell us about Joe Lieberman.

What about him? And how does that reflect on what the American people want? Joe Lieberman was protecting the insurance companies who supported him at the expense of the human beings who elected him to the senate. 
 

The my point above about The Groups

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

That’s false. I support Mamdani because he’s the best of the bad options. I’m just not excited about him, and I expect more of the same when he’s mayor. He’s DeBlasio Light. 

 

I think being anti-genocide is a majoritarian, centrist position, not to mention a moral imperative. 

I think being “Anti-Israel”  is politically marginal and costly. 
 

That’s categorically false. That said, social equality is NOT a substitute for class solidarity when it comes to holding the Democratic voting coalition together.  
 

Thats why I asked you if you knew what I was referring to with “The Groups.”
 

Thanks for clarifying, though I still disagree to an extent but you are 100% right about social equality not being a substitute for class solidarity.

I'm aware of The Groups, and still think they are an easy/lazy scapegoat and that you probably listen to Ezra Klein way too much.

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Posted
Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

What about him? And how does that reflect on what the American people want? Joe Lieberman was protecting the insurance companies who supported him at the expense of the human beings who elected him to the senate. 
 

The my point above about The Groups

And in a brave display of centrism still being felt by millions of Americans to this day, he was the deciding vote on the public option.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Thanks for clarifying, though I still disagree to an extent but you are 100% right about social equality not being a substitute for class solidarity.

I'm aware of The Groups, and still think they are an easy/lazy scapegoat and that you probably listen to Ezra Klein way too much.

Ezra Klein makes my ears bleed so any amount is too much, but he’s right about the way the various Washington and NY based groups in the Nonprofit/Think Tank Industrial complex have FAR too much influence on the thinking of staffers and politicians than they should based on the false premise that they actually represent the people they claim to, and a lot of them are just straight up grifters. That how you wind up with Democratic politicians in South Texas calling people “LatinX,” among so many other things. 
 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And in a brave display of centrism still being felt by millions of Americans to this day, he was the deciding vote on the public option.

Fucking terrible. Although, and not to fall back on an old-standby her, Lieberman was a cosponsor of Wyden-Bennett, and that would have delivered true universal coverage. 
Obama killed that one, because big employers and the USCOC got in his ear. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Fucking terrible. Although, and not to fall back on an old-standby her, Lieberman was a cosponsor of Wyden-Bennett, and that would have delivered true universal coverage. 
Obama killed that one, because big employers and the USCOC got in his ear. 

Unfortunately, any bill that transitions this country away from employer provided health care is going nowhere. 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That how you wind up with Democratic politicians in South Texas calling people “LatinX,” among so many other things. 

How many votes did this cost Kamala Harris?

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Posted

I cannot believe that there are still people in 2025 who think "LatinX," a term used even less widely than "CRT," ever got traction at any time. Nobody switched party affiliation over "LatinX." Whoever told you otherwise is fucking with you, and laughing at you behind your back.

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Posted

I’m clearly in “one of the groups” and for better or for worse not in the largest demographic Dems should appeal to either - I don’t mean cishet white people - and I can tell you without any hesitation, if the Dems could meaningfully recapture the working and middle class with good policy, universal healthcare, student loan reform, education, pre-k childcare reform, tax reform, and financial system reform that truly improves their lives, then the threat to my existence would end. 

people demonize me and people in these so called groups because they are threatened and are looking for a cause. 

there’s a reason why LBJ was able to pass the civil rights act, he was passing laws and establishing programs (like Medicare and Medicaid) for the majority of Americans as well.  Well that and his political force, expediency and brilliance too. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, troph said:

I’m clearly in “one of the groups” and for better or for worse not in the largest demographic Dems should appeal to either - I don’t mean cishet white people - and I can tell you without any hesitation, if the Dems could meaningfully recapture the working and middle class with good policy, universal healthcare, student loan reform, education, pre-k childcare reform, tax reform, and financial system reform that truly improves their lives, then the threat to my existence would end. 

people demonize me and people in these so called groups because they are threatened and are looking for a cause. 

there’s a reason why LBJ was able to pass the civil rights act, he was passing laws and establishing programs (like Medicare and Medicaid) for the majority of Americans as well.  Well that and his political force, expediency and brilliance too. 

Fwiw I’d still hit jk 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I cannot believe that there are still people in 2025 who think "LatinX," a term used even less widely than "CRT," ever got traction at any time. Nobody switched party affiliation over "LatinX." Whoever told you otherwise is fucking with you, and laughing at you behind your back.

I mean BO&W is literally mouthbreathing all over the thread, so it's not that shocking.

Posted
15 minutes ago, troph said:

I’m clearly in “one of the groups” and for better or for worse not in the largest demographic Dems should appeal to either - I don’t mean cishet white people - and I can tell you without any hesitation, if the Dems could meaningfully recapture the working and middle class with good policy, universal healthcare, student loan reform, education, pre-k childcare reform, tax reform, and financial system reform that truly improves their lives, then the threat to my existence would end. 

people demonize me and people in these so called groups because they are threatened and are looking for a cause. 

there’s a reason why LBJ was able to pass the civil rights act, he was passing laws and establishing programs (like Medicare and Medicaid) for the majority of Americans as well.  Well that and his political force, expediency and brilliance too. 

Someone can certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but when I see "the groups" I don't think folks like you, that is constituents that have certain lobbies out there advocating on your behalf. I think of the advocacy groups themselves. Folks that are largely justifying their existence by bending pols to their will in order to keep the donation cash flowing. IOW, the sometimes usefull assholes that usually just stand in the way of policy that could help all the people, not just their small or even tiny underrepresented minority.

This is the United States of FUPM. In the end, that's why we're so very fucked.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Someone can certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but when I see "the groups" I don't think folks like you, that is constituents that have certain lobbies out there advocating on your behalf. I think of the advocacy groups themselves. Folks that are largely justifying their existence by bending pols to their will in order to keep the donation cash flowing. IOW, the sometimes usefull assholes that usually just stand in the way of policy that could help all the people, not just their small or even tiny underrepresented minority.

This is the United States of FUPM. In the end, that's why we're so very fucked.

I don't think that's why, I think it's because there's a complete lack of accountability or merit based anything. 

Look at Wells Fargo, why are they still allowed to be a bank? 

There is no accountability top to bottom it's way beyond politics and it is all the way deep deep in corporate culture.

Cancel culture is not one of accountability its one of outrage. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't think that's why, I think it's because there's a complete lack of accountability or merit based anything. 

Look at Wells Fargo, why are they still allowed to be a bank? 

There is no accountability top to bottom it's way beyond politics and it is all the way deep deep in corporate culture.

Cancel culture is not one of accountability its one of outrage. 

I agree with you mostly but cancel culture isn't real, at least in the way people frame it wrt: The Groups. If anything, the realest cancel culture ever gets is the shit the Trump admin is currently pulling.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I agree with you mostly but cancel culture isn't real, at least in the way people frame it wrt: The Groups. If anything, the realest cancel culture ever gets is the shit the Trump admin is currently pulling.

Cancel culture was created by democrats and lead to further alienating average voters 

Posted

Did we actually have any candidates for office use latinx? I don't recall any.  

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Cancel culture was created by democrats and lead to further alienating average voters 

Yup, Democrats invented shaming in 2018, everyone knows that. 

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