Arkansas police kill 17-year old with car trouble

[immortal13 4,059]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

What is it you are discussing? What point are you trying to make? What do you think is the important part of Floyd's story? Of Timpa's story? 

Just adding some facts. Is that too complicated for you to understand?

Edited July 1, 2021 by immortal13

[Captainant 26,861]

Let's compare Timpa to the OP of this thread:

• Hunter Brittain shot without cause or warning by a deputy during a traffic stop, one witness
• Community outrage
• Sheriff says he """will investigate""" and is """cooperating""" with investigators
• Surviving witness offers first-hand dispute of police account, public pressure ramps and story grows

 

• Tony Timpa calls for help during a mental health episode, police come and find him already restrained
• Cops then sit on Timpa and suffocate him to death, only witnesses are cops
• Cops put out public statements saying Timpa was aggressive and needed restraining, refuse to release bodycam footage
• Media goes to court to get footage and proves cops to be liars, but it was 3 years ago and qualified immunity so who even cares

It's clear that public disclosure and non-police witness accounts are what drive public outcry and attention to police malfeasance and murders. Unless you've got another argument?

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Go build a statute if you want one. You can start that campaign, anyone can. But, the story got coverage once the video was released. It wasn't that the media ignored it, it was that it wasn't fresh enough to strike a chord with the public. That isn't because people find the actions of the police acceptable. It isn't because people believe a white guy's death isn't important. Plenty of black men have died due to police mistreatment, and their stories had a similar 5 minutes of fame only to be replaced by something else in the public consciousness. Sometimes things happen at just the right time and in the right conditions to cause a larger chain reaction. Most times a single spark is going to sputter out. But every so often it creates a wildfire.  That's what happened with Floyd.

Here is my suggestion for some of you: focus on the material misconduct here, the actions of the police. The obsession with finding mistreatment of the white man because a black man's story became famous is fucking pathetic. 

So by that logic we should be seeing round-the-clock coverage of Hunter Brittain. Oddly I do not see it on the CNN chyron, and a quick online search did not pop myriad national news stories. Seems like the shooting of an unarmed teenager actually not in the commission of a crime is among the absolute worst examples of police brutality we've seen. This case plus Daniel Shaver are exponentially worse than any other cases that have gotten national attention.

Why do you think the Defund the Police crowd has not gotten behind this to promote the agenda? Maybe you can post a link to an LeBron or AOC tweet or something about it? Should all white men be scared to walk down the street for fear of getting murdered by police?

Edited July 1, 2021 by Harrison Bergeron

[GringoSalado 1,639]

2 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Does anyone know the exact moment when the so-called American Conservative became a mewling, self-pitying coward afraid to walk through the streets of America? When did the bootstrap folks turn to incessantly whining and complaining about EVERYTHING like a toddler? Pathetic and contemptible grievance ghouls that provide nothing to society but bitch-assery. 

Why do you need the exact moment?

[Dahobbs 17,089]

38 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

So by that logic we should be seeing round-the-clock coverage of Hunter Brittain. Oddly I do not see it on the CNN chyron, and a quick online search did not pop myriad national news stories. Seems like the shooting of an unarmed teenager actually not in the commission of a crime is among the absolute worst examples of police brutality we've seen. This case plus Daniel Shaver are exponentially worse than any other cases that have gotten national attention.

Why do you think the Defund the Police crowd has not gotten behind this to promote the agenda? Maybe you can post a link to an LeBron or AOC tweet or something about it? Should all white men be scared to walk down the street for fear of getting murdered by police?

How do you figure? I've already pointed out that Hunter's case has seen plenty of publicity. It isn't a lack of coverage that is preventing a larger uproar.  Hell, maybe this thing keeps building and it does turn into a larger event. Far too early to tell. Again, most sparks die. This one probably will too sadly. But it isn't a conspiracy against the white man that causes that. If you want this story to keep generating interest, then you (royal you) have to keep talking about it. BUT you have to talk about what happened to Hunter. You have to direct your anger at what happened to Hunter. You must stop focusing your anger at the societal interest that was generated in another man's death. It's misplaced. And it isn't going to generate the outcome that you say you want. 

Addition: I mean, fuck, the family is going to be represented by Crump. What are you bitching about? 

https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/local/hunter-brittain-ben-crump-arkansas-police-shooting/91-564ec8b1-7c2d-4fb1-a122-2e72c4bcd4f2

Edited July 1, 2021 by Dahobbs

[fattyflattie 4,631]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  That's the biggest takeaway from the contrast between the two cases.

I don’t know if the link @immortal13 pulled from wiki is accurate, but if it is there is another pretty glaring difference. Mr. McDonald’s family got paid. Floyd’s family has generational wealth now.  Doesn’t right wrongs, of course, but still much better than putting your kid in the ground and going home with just your dick in your hands. 

[Hate 20,037]

Does anyone know the exact moment when the so-called American Conservative became a mewling, self-pitying coward afraid to walk through the streets of America? When did the bootstrap folks turn to incessantly whining and complaining about EVERYTHING like a toddler? Pathetic and contemptible grievance ghouls that provide nothing to society but bitch-assery. 

Probably at the exact same time that pointing out hypocrisy became whining.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

Probably at the exact same time that pointing out hypocrisy became whining.

Ya know there's just no place for accuracy, and balanced outrage here on the Surly.  You know that right ?  The moving of goal posts is an art form. 

[Dahobbs 17,089]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t know if the link @immortal13 pulled from wiki is accurate, but if it is there is another pretty glaring difference. Mr. McDonald’s family got paid. Floyd’s family has generational wealth now.  Doesn’t right wrongs, of course, but still much better than putting your kid in the ground and going home with just your dick in your hands. 

Plenty of righteous cases never get paid. Sometimes good cases still lose. It depends on the laws of the state. It depends on the judge. And it depends on the jury. Again, it isn't conspiracy.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

nmnm

Edited July 1, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

nmnm

Edited July 1, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

 

still dodging my point on the timeliness of the information and fullness of facts going to the public immediately in the Floyd case whereas the police controlled the narrative for years and told outright lies in the Timpa case.

The police lies and coverup are grounds for even more outrage, not less.

[Brisketexan 103,148]

45 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

So by that logic we should be seeing round-the-clock coverage of Hunter Brittain. Oddly I do not see it on the CNN chyron, and a quick online search did not pop myriad national news stories. Seems like the shooting of an unarmed teenager actually not in the commission of a crime is among the absolute worst examples of police brutality we've seen. This case plus Daniel Shaver are exponentially worse than any other cases that have gotten national attention.

Why do you think the Defund the Police crowd has not gotten behind this to promote the agenda? Maybe you can post a link to an LeBron or AOC tweet or something about it? Should all white men be scared to walk down the street for fear of getting murdered by police?

Why is this not grabbing attention the way Floyd did?

One word, and I've said it several times: VIDEO.

Actual footage of the murder happening is 1000X more gripping than all the narratives in the world ("a picture is worth a thousand words" has been an expression since photography was born).  Tell me someone was murdered?  I may read about it.  SHOW me someone actually being murdered?  I'll absolutely watch it.

Video matters.  It's what made the Rodney King case an actual case.  It's what made Floyd's murder a huge deal.  It's what made the initial protests in Tunisia a spark of the Arab Spring (video got out, in real time).  Etc. etc.

Y'all engaging in contortions to ignore/minimize the single biggest and most obvious distinction in all of these cases is pretty amusing to watch.

[immortal13 4,059]

 

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Why is this not grabbing attention the way Floyd did?

One word, and I've said it several times: VIDEO.

Actual footage of the murder happening is 1000X more gripping than all the narratives in the world ("a picture is worth a thousand words" has been an expression since photography was born).  Tell me someone was murdered?  I may read about it.  SHOW me someone actually being murdered?  I'll absolutely watch it.

Video matters.  It's what made the Rodney King case an actual case.  It's what made Floyd's murder a huge deal.  It's what made the initial protests in Tunisia a spark of the Arab Spring (video got out, in real time).  Etc. etc.

Y'all engaging in contortions to ignore/minimize the single biggest and most obvious distinction in all of these cases is pretty amusing to watch.

Umm, there was video of the Timpa and Shaver murders

Edited July 1, 2021 by immortal13

[Brisketexan 103,148]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

 

Umm, there was video of the Timpa and Shaver murders

Yes.......released LONG after the fact.  After a counter-narrative crafted by police was the dominant narrative.  And after initial interest in the immediate story was long gone.

There's a reason that news organizations pitch the "we bring you news AS IT HAPPENS" angle.  Because that's when it grabs people.

A real-time, live murder, with people begging the cop to stop murdering the victim, was broadcast to the world nearly the instant it happened to Floyd.  That's a huge story.  It grabs people. Because the body isn't even cold, and we watch the WHOLE event unfold, not just selected clips.  And we saw it from multiple angles.  That's what grabbed me and stood out from other cases - and I'm a strong cop critic who has seen many bad videos.

Live video, of a murder as it happened, with people begging for it to stop.  That's an eyeball-grabber.

[immortal13 4,059]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes.......released LONG after the fact.  After a counter-narrative crafted by police was the dominant narrative.  And after initial interest in the immediate story was long gone.

There's a reason that news organizations pitch the "we bring you news AS IT HAPPENS" angle.  Because that's when it grabs people.

A real-time, live murder, with people begging the cop to stop murdering the victim, was broadcast to the world nearly the instant it happened to Floyd.  That's a huge story.  It grabs people. Because the body isn't even cold, and we watch the WHOLE event unfold, not just selected clips.  And we saw it from multiple angles.  That's what grabbed me and stood out from other cases - and I'm a strong cop critic who has seen many bad videos.

Live video, of a murder as it happened, with people begging for it to stop.  That's an eyeball-grabber.

Point made

[Brisketexan 103,148]

Just now, immortal13 said:

Point made

I'll suggest that there's also a sub-point, which is all but impossible to measure/predict: things blow up when society, or a certain segment, is at an inflection point.  An event that a month before, wouldn't have ignited a firestorm, now does.  Because the conditions and public sentiment was in the exact right place at that time.

The Arab Spring is something like that.  The Tunisian event was far from the first time a citizen protested against an authoritarian and corrupt Arab government.  But that event, fueled by viral video, lit a raging fire.  Conditions were right.

For some reason(s), conditions were right when the Floyd murder happened.  It was the right event, at the right time, captured and seen in the right way.  Had any of those not been the case, it probably wouldn't have been nearly as big as it ended up being.

[Huckleberry 32,142]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:08 AM, DaggerHorns said:

Society and social media is unwilling to accept this fact. There will be no excitement, no press coverage or no public cries for change regarding this incident.

The OP of the thread you posted this on is excited press coverage including public cries for change. And the thread is full of excited public cries for change. You should pull your head out every once in a while.

[Huckleberry 32,142]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The OP of the thread you posted this on is excited press coverage including public cries for change. And the thread is full of excited public cries for change. You should pull your head out every once in a while.

Fuck this guy for not reading the whole thread first.

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes.......released LONG after the fact.  After a counter-narrative crafted by police was the dominant narrative.  And after initial interest in the immediate story was long gone.

There's a reason that news organizations pitch the "we bring you news AS IT HAPPENS" angle.  Because that's when it grabs people.

A real-time, live murder, with people begging the cop to stop murdering the victim, was broadcast to the world nearly the instant it happened to Floyd.  That's a huge story.  It grabs people. Because the body isn't even cold, and we watch the WHOLE event unfold, not just selected clips.  And we saw it from multiple angles.  That's what grabbed me and stood out from other cases - and I'm a strong cop critic who has seen many bad videos.

Live video, of a murder as it happened, with people begging for it to stop.  That's an eyeball-grabber.

i agree, and that is reasonable to an extent. But there were many other "Say Their Names" that lacked video, so I think that is not fully reasonable. Michael Brown the most obvious, so video really is a red herring IMHO. Again, Brittain, Shaver, and Timpa were not even accused of criminal activity - that seems like the poster children for "Defund the Police." I am struggling to understand why they are not receiving as much attention as Michael Brown, Jacob Blake, George Floyd, Breaonna Taylor. Will we see NBA players wearing their names during the Finals? Will we "say their names?" I will be curious to see if we see NFL players with "Hunter Brittain" on their helmets next fall.

FTR I fall strongly in the camp of police reform, but I like my opinions, principles, and outrage to be equally applied across similar realities. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Harrison Bergeron

[wildcat09 28,387]

23 hours ago, DaggerHorns said:

1) the wrongful death lawsuit was filed in December of 2016 but it was largely ignored

2) I agreed the cops are fuckheads. You’re not proving anything by arguing with yourself

3) You stated that you wanted me to spend more time being angry about the way cops treat people. I am. What made you think otherwise you fucking idiot?

4) You want me to be less angry about media coverage? I’m fighting for equality for everyone while you’re contradicting yourself.

It would be amazing if everyone is this country remembered what MLK said.

”will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” 

You’re just saying I'm angry at shit I'm not angry at.

The only thing I’m angry at is the thought that the world would have been a better place if your mother had swallowed you.

[wildcat09 28,387]

7 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

i agree, and that is reasonable to an extent. But there were many other "Say Their Names" that lacked video, so I think that is not fully reasonable. Michael Brown the most obvious, so video really is a red herring IMHO. Again, Brittain, Shaver, and Timpa were not even accused of criminal activity - that seems like the poster children for "Defund the Police." I am struggling to understand why they are not receiving as much attention as Michael Brown, Jacob Blake, George Floyd, Breaonna Taylor. Will we see NBA players wearing their names during the Finals? Will we "say their names?" I will be curious to see if we see NFL players with "Hunter Brittain" on their helmets next fall.

FTR I fall strongly in the camp of police reform, but I like my opinions, principles, and outrage to be equally applied across similar realities. 

Elijah McClain was largely ignored at the time and he was black. This whining is so fucking stupid.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

26 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Elijah McClain was largely ignored at the time and he was black. This whining is so fucking stupid.

Let's see how many statues this kid gets.  There is video that will be released.  It just happened.  He does not appear to be an absolute worthless piece of shit like George Floyd.  He was not resisting arrest.  He was a 17 year old kid.

Let's commission a poll and see how many people have "said his name" or even know his name in 6 weeks.

[Brisketexan 103,148]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Let's see how many statues this kid gets.  There is video that will be released.  It just happened.  He does not appear to be an absolute worthless piece of shit like George Floyd.  He was not resisting arrest.  He was a 17 year old kid.

Let's commission a poll and see how many people have "said his name" or even know his name in 6 weeks.

Let's see if we get video -- ANY video -- right away.  A key point that most seem to be missing.

And, let's see if American policing has a documented, undeniable history of racial bias across the board, by historical design, for centuries.  Problems with race and policing are two things: 1) an undeniable thing (generic black guy gets pulled over way more often than generic white guy, and the problem is expressed in every other function of policing as well), and 2) is not the ONLY thing.

Maybe we can put it in super-simple terms: in America, it is shitty to be a citizen dealing with cops.  And it's even shittier when you're a minority citizen.  Both things are true, and neither excludes the other or makes the other false.

The whining about this shit is just pathetic.  But America gonna do America.

[RPM 26,073]

I love how ya'll have successfully derailed this into a racial matter instead of an innocent unarmed teen executed by police. Deflection achieved.

Edited July 1, 2021 by RPM

[DaggerHorns 3,028]

50 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The context was the character of the people that were killed by police. I don’t expect you to be able to read but would you like some help with that?

Try to keep up.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Let's see if we get video -- ANY video -- right away.  A key point that most seem to be missing.

And, let's see if American policing has a documented, undeniable history of racial bias across the board, by historical design, for centuries.  Problems with race and policing are two things: 1) an undeniable thing (generic black guy gets pulled over way more often than generic white guy, and the problem is expressed in every other function of policing as well), and 2) is not the ONLY thing.

Maybe we can put it in super-simple terms: in America, it is shitty to be a citizen dealing with cops.  And it's even shittier when you're a minority citizen.  Both things are true, and neither excludes the other or makes the other false.

The whining about this shit is just pathetic.  But America gonna do America.

What is with your obsession on race instead of gender and age?  There is a far bigger disparate impact on gender and age than there is on race.  Your position seems to be that cops are racist because of who they assault/kill.  But you don't seem to reach that conclusion on gender or age.  Why is that?  Shouldn't every demographic be equally abused by cops unless the cops are sexist, ageist, etc?  Why is race different?

[DaggerHorns 3,028]

6 minutes ago, RPM said:

I love how ya'll have successfully derailed this into a racial matter instead of an innocent unarmed teen executed by police. Deflection achieved.

If you’ve taken a breath in the last century you would know there’s an issue with police killing people in this country. There has also been discussion about who the police kill most often.

We are so far off fucking topic!!!!!

[RPM 26,073]

Photo of shooter released.

[Brisketexan 103,148]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

our position seems to be that cops are racist because of who they assault/kill. 

False. You do love going back to this straw man.  So much so that it must be a straw real doll that you enjoy fucking.  I ain't gonna judge you on how you get your rocks off, but I WILL bristle at you falsely attributing positions to me, repeatedly.

My position has been stated dozens of times -- cops are racist because of how they interact with black citizens in general compared to how they interact with white citizens in general.  From the worst of outcomes: killing them.  To the tiniest of outcomes: who and how often they choose to pull over, question, harass, intimidate.  To the middling outcomes: letting Johnny White call his parents to pick him up when he's busted with weed/booze/some other shenanigans, vs. putting the cuffs on Johnny Black for the exact same thing.

Policing in this country -- not just police killings -- have a problem with race and racial bias.  It's okay.  Everyone knows it.  Even the honest cops openly admit it.  Not sure why you fight SO hard against it?  Why is this some sacred cow to you -- never, ever, will I admit that policing in this country overall treats black people shittier than it treats white people!  I can never concede this obvious truth because.....why?  What's the fucking problem?

[hobbes2702 12,481]

7 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Is Wikipedia a right wing rag?

It’s certainly not a source lol

[hobbes2702 12,481]

49 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Let's see how many statues this kid gets.  There is video that will be released.  It just happened.  He does not appear to be an absolute worthless piece of shit like George Floyd.  He was not resisting arrest.  He was a 17 year old kid.

Let's commission a poll and see how many people have "said his name" or even know his name in 6 weeks.

Why does your personal opinion of George Floyd even exist in this discussion? You want more coverage of this event than advocate for it. It’s transparent that isn’t your goal here. If it was you would hold this as another example of police abusing citizens instead of attempting to rank the severity of the event or the morality of the victim.

[Captainant 26,861]

Oh what's that? The murdering cop's body cam was off??

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/deputy-shot-arkansas-teen-fired-leaving-body-cam-78618920

Quote

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- An Arkansas sheriff's deputy who fatally shot a teenager during a traffic stop was fired Thursday after the sheriff said he did not activate his body camera until after the shooting took place.

Lonoke County Sheriff John Staley said Sgt. Michael Davis was fired after it was discovered he didn't follow the agency's body camera policy in the moments leading up to the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Hunter Brittain on June 23.

The sheriff's office has released few details about the shooting, which is being investigated by Arkansas State Police. Staley said the agency's policy requires officers to activate their cameras before interacting with the public.

“My review of this deputy's actions has determined that he did not activate his body camera in a timely way," Staley said in video released on the office's Facebook page. “This means there's no video of the actual shooting. We see the aftermath, but not the shooting."

Davis is white, as was Brittain. Brittain's family members and friends have protested nightly outside the sheriff's office since the shooting and have complained about lack of details released. Family members have said Brittain was unarmed at the time of shooting and was holding a jug of antifreeze.

“We're not getting anything,'" Jesse Brittain, Hunter's uncle, said earlier Thursday. “We've got Hunter's body, and that's it."

The family has retained attorneys Devon Jacob and Benjamin Crump, who represented the family of George Floyd, whose death by a Minneapolis police officer sparked protests nationwide over police misconduct and racial inequality. The Rev. Al Sharpton planned to deliver the eulogy at Brittain's funeral on Tuesday, Jacob said.

“We'll let the investigation play out, but I think what we already know is we have a 17-year-old child who was shot and killed by a police officer on a traffic stop merely because he was holding a bright blue jug of antifreeze," Jacob said. “It's very hard to explain how we ended up in this situation."

Davis had been with the sheriff's office since 2013.

 

Fuck the police. They are an occupying force in America.

[Brisketexan 103,148]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Oh what's that? The murdering cop's body cam was off??

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/deputy-shot-arkansas-teen-fired-leaving-body-cam-78618920

Fuck the police. They are an occupying force in America.

Jesus.  Tapdancing.  Christ.

Of course.  Are any of us -- ANY OF US -- surprised by this at all?

Law enforcement in this country is irredeemable.  

 

EDIT: this lack of video also means that this case will never get the publicity that the Floyd murder did.  Because the cop will completely lie about what happened, and it will be a "competing stories" matter, and justice won't be done.

BUT, on the other hand, see the attention its already getting -- Floyd's attorneys, and Al Sharpton speaking at the funeral.  Seems like to some leaders of the Floyd issue, it's not solely a race issue at all.  It encompasses bad policing overall (which every person on this site who was pissed about the Floyd murder repeatedly said was an issue).  Cops are like an abusive parent.  They beat their male child.  They beat and rape their female child.  One child definitely has it worse.  But both children definitely have it bad.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Brisketexan

[Zepol87 9,015]

 

46 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What is with your obsession on race instead of gender and age?  There is a far bigger disparate impact on gender and age than there is on race.  Your position seems to be that cops are racist because of who they assault/kill.  But you don't seem to reach that conclusion on gender or age.  Why is that?  Shouldn't every demographic be equally abused by cops unless the cops are sexist, ageist, etc?  Why is race different?

Do you truly give a shit? Honestly you seem way more upset about some statues or some shit instead of cops still being murdering shit bags. 

[Huckleberry 32,142]

Al fucking Sharpton is delivering the young man's eulogy. You'd think it might cause a minor revelation for ol' Johnny Sack when he sees that Al Sharpton demonstrates the principled consistency that he lacks, but I don't think I'll bet on it.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,728]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

False. You do love going back to this straw man.  So much so that it must be a straw real doll that you enjoy fucking.  I ain't gonna judge you on how you get your rocks off, but I WILL bristle at you falsely attributing positions to me, repeatedly.

My position has been stated dozens of times -- cops are racist because of how they interact with black citizens in general compared to how they interact with white citizens in general.  From the worst of outcomes: killing them.  To the tiniest of outcomes: who and how often they choose to pull over, question, harass, intimidate.  To the middling outcomes: letting Johnny White call his parents to pick him up when he's busted with weed/booze/some other shenanigans, vs. putting the cuffs on Johnny Black for the exact same thing.

Policing in this country -- not just police killings -- have a problem with race and racial bias.  It's okay.  Everyone knows it.  Even the honest cops openly admit it.  Not sure why you fight SO hard against it?  Why is this some sacred cow to you -- never, ever, will I admit that policing in this country overall treats black people shittier than it treats white people!  I can never concede this obvious truth because.....why?  What's the fucking problem?

It’s because his defending his whiteness is the one thing he’s been enabled to do.  You can pick on him because he’s a prick, you can pick on him because he was born with a silver spoon, but black folks stalk his type.   

[Brisketexan 103,148]

18 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Al fucking Sharpton is delivering the young man's eulogy. You'd think it might cause a minor revelation for ol' Johnny Sack when he sees that Al Sharpton demonstrates the principled consistency that he lacks, but I don't think I'll bet on it.

Johnny Sack: not as principled or consistent as Al Sharpton.

Man, THAT'S a hell of an indictment.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Al fucking Sharpton is delivering the young man's eulogy. You'd think it might cause a minor revelation for ol' Johnny Sack when he sees that Al Sharpton demonstrates the principled consistency that he lacks, but I don't think I'll bet on it.

You typed the phrase with the words Al Sharpton, and principled consistency, and thought, yeah that's honest.  Using Al Sharpton as any kind of moral or principled compass means yours is broken.  He uses race as a money making scheme.  He's been a despicable, slimy, asshole since day one.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,728]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You typed the phrase with the words Al Sharpton, and principled consistency, and thought, yeah that's honest.  Using Al Sharpton as any kind of moral or principled compass means yours is broken.  He's uses race as a money making scheme.

Both sides.   I’m pretty sure all our moral compasses point south.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

It’s because his defending his whiteness is the one thing he’s been enabled to do.  You can pick on him because he’s a prick, you can pick on him because he was born with a silver spoon, but black folks stalk his type.   

I’d love to compare what most of the white libs on this website have done for black people to what I have. Dollars.  Time.  How many of you have spent a thousand pro Bono hours working on getting a black nonviolent drug offender’s life sentence commuted like I have?  Brisket you ever draft pro briefs on behalf of black people imprisoned for nonviolent drug crimes?  How many have donated over $200k to Haitian orphans?  And how many of you fucks just talk shit and talk big on the internet.  

It’s why I don’t just dislike but despise smug white liberals.  You don’t do shit but virtue signal.  And your paternalistic policies hurt the people you claim to want to help.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,728]

21 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’d love to compare what most of the white libs on this website have done for black people to what I have. Dollars.  Time.  How many of you have spent a thousand pro Bono hours working on getting a black nonviolent drug offender’s life sentence commuted like I have?  Brisket you ever draft pro briefs on behalf of black people imprisoned for nonviolent drug crimes?  How many have donated over $200k to Haitian orphans?  And how many of you fucks just talk shit and talk big on the internet.  

It’s why I don’t just dislike but despise smug white liberals.  You don’t do shit but virtue signal.  And your paternalistic policies hurt the people you claim to want to help.  

I don’t claim to help anyone but myself and maybe my immediate family.  That’s not virtue signaling, that’s honesty.  I do claim to care about others.   That’s not dishonesty.  Maybe I’m wrong about you, I’ve been wrong about plenty, but you sure seem to seem smug that you’ve done more for poor oppressed minorities than any body cam.  I find that doubtful.  I think you think they are lazy lesser beings.   I’d be glad to be wrong there. Almighty glad.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

45 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I don’t claim to help anyone but myself and maybe my immediate family.  That’s not virtue signaling, that’s honesty.  I do claim to care about others.   That’s not dishonesty.  Maybe I’m wrong about you, I’ve been wrong about plenty, but you sure seem to seem smug that you’ve done more for poor oppressed minorities than any body cam.  I find that doubtful.  I think you think they are lazy lesser beings.   I’d be glad to be wrong there. Almighty glad.  

I like minorities just fine.  I despise white liberals.  

[Brisketexan 103,148]

13 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’d love to compare what most of the white libs on this website have done for black people to what I have. Dollars.  Time.  How many of you have spent a thousand pro Bono hours working on getting a black nonviolent drug offender’s life sentence commuted like I have?  Brisket you ever draft pro briefs on behalf of black people imprisoned for nonviolent drug crimes?  How many have donated over $200k to Haitian orphans?  And how many of you fucks just talk shit and talk big on the internet.  

It’s why I don’t just dislike but despise smug white liberals.  You don’t do shit but virtue signal.  And your paternalistic policies hurt the people you claim to want to help.  

Well, I don't have $200k laying around (my family was an advantage in my life, but no trust fund here).....but of what I do have, I have given plenty.  I have led the push to work with (both in terms of dollars and time) a program designed to get minorities, usually first-gen college students, into law school and the practice of law (an effort that is ongoing as we speak).  I have paid for significant medical care, personal expenses, education, etc., for individual minority families just straight-up out-of-pocket.  And yes, I have represented minorities in multiple pro bono matters (not criminal, but many civil things that really matter to people).  And a whole lot more - I have no idea how much I've given in dollars and time over the years.  I don't keep track.

But fuck, I feel slimy just posting that list -- it's braggart virtue signaling bullshit.  I prefer to do what I do quietly, and keep it to myself.  Because I'm sure as shit not doing it to burnish any credentials or deflect any criticism.

I see, first hand and second hand, the particular lot of minorities in this society we've built, and the structures that exist that help perpetuate that.  Personally, I believe that education is the surest path to overcoming those issues -- both in getting individuals over/past those structural barriers, AND in equipping them to take efforts to dismantle/change them.  So, that's where I've preferred to focus my efforts.

I don't do so out of any "white guilt."  In fact, I do so because I look at my path, and my family's path, and what various individuals had to overcome at various times in history.  And I realize, rather plainly, that the slope to climb is a bit steeper for minorities than it is for white folks (and yes, that includes the disparate ways that police treat minorities vs. whites).  That just "is."  The structures, institutions, and society were built that way, and many of those structures remain in substantially their original form.  So, the surest way to fix things, in the long run, is to reshape those structures.  And the surest way to do THAT is to get the people who are negatively affected by those structures a seat at the table.  And their best shot at getting THERE is by getting an education, and working incredibly hard.  They don't have the connections to get them a job at a good law firm.  So, maybe folks like me need to step up and volunteer to BE that connection.  Etc.  I am blessed.  I am the product of luck and hard work that came before me.  I was absolutely born on second base, at least.  For someone with my last name, that's a big deal.  I would be a shitheel if 1) I stood here and said that everything I've accomplished is because of me and my intelligence and hard work alone, and 2) didn't extend myself to help other folks who weren't born on second base like I was.

I'll never give a rat's ass what people like you think of what I do or don't do.

And I know, with certainty, that my last moments on earth will include the anguished thought that whatever I did for my fellow man, it wasn't enough.  That certainty haunts me every day, right now.

[Huckleberry 32,142]

14 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You typed the phrase with the words Al Sharpton, and principled consistency, and thought, yeah that's honest.  Using Al Sharpton as any kind of moral or principled compass means yours is broken.  He uses race as a money making scheme.  He's been a despicable, slimy, asshole since day one.

Yeah, that's the entire point of the post. Way to catch on, big guy.

[aggie08 20,212]

16 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You typed the phrase with the words Al Sharpton, and principled consistency, and thought, yeah that's honest.  Using Al Sharpton as any kind of moral or principled compass means yours is broken.  He uses race as a money making scheme.  He's been a despicable, slimy, asshole since day one.

You're not a smart man if you thought that Huckleberry's post was meant to compliment Al Sharpton.

[Captainant 26,861]

29 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You're not a smart man if you thought that Huckleberry's post was meant to compliment Al Sharpton.

hey man, he just brings the doughnuts

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I don't have $200k laying around (my family was an advantage in my life, but no trust fund here).....but of what I do have, I have given plenty.  I have led the push to work with (both in terms of dollars and time) a program designed to get minorities, usually first-gen college students, into law school and the practice of law (an effort that is ongoing as we speak).  I have paid for significant medical care, personal expenses, education, etc., for individual minority families just straight-up out-of-pocket.  And yes, I have represented minorities in multiple pro bono matters (not criminal, but many civil things that really matter to people).  And a whole lot more - I have no idea how much I've given in dollars and time over the years.  I don't keep track.

But fuck, I feel slimy just posting that list -- it's braggart virtue signaling bullshit.  I prefer to do what I do quietly, and keep it to myself.  Because I'm sure as shit not doing it to burnish any credentials or deflect any criticism.

I see, first hand and second hand, the particular lot of minorities in this society we've built, and the structures that exist that help perpetuate that.  Personally, I believe that education is the surest path to overcoming those issues -- both in getting individuals over/past those structural barriers, AND in equipping them to take efforts to dismantle/change them.  So, that's where I've preferred to focus my efforts.

I don't do so out of any "white guilt."  In fact, I do so because I look at my path, and my family's path, and what various individuals had to overcome at various times in history.  And I realize, rather plainly, that the slope to climb is a bit steeper for minorities than it is for white folks (and yes, that includes the disparate ways that police treat minorities vs. whites).  That just "is."  The structures, institutions, and society were built that way, and many of those structures remain in substantially their original form.  So, the surest way to fix things, in the long run, is to reshape those structures.  And the surest way to do THAT is to get the people who are negatively affected by those structures a seat at the table.  And their best shot at getting THERE is by getting an education, and working incredibly hard.  They don't have the connections to get them a job at a good law firm.  So, maybe folks like me need to step up and volunteer to BE that connection.  Etc.  I am blessed.  I am the product of luck and hard work that came before me.  I was absolutely born on second base, at least.  For someone with my last name, that's a big deal.  I would be a shitheel if 1) I stood here and said that everything I've accomplished is because of me and my intelligence and hard work alone, and 2) didn't extend myself to help other folks who weren't born on second base like I was.

I'll never give a rat's ass what people like you think of what I do or don't do.

And I know, with certainty, that my last moments on earth will include the anguished thought that whatever I did for my fellow man, it wasn't enough.  That certainty haunts me every day, right now.

I didn’t have $200k laying around either.  I started off donating $400 a month back in 2003 when I finished law school, which wasn’t that much on a single man’s big law salary.  And then started upping it as I made more money when my career progressed.  If I was selfish racist I probably wouldn’t have done that and instead put the money in a Roth.  

As for trust funds…that’s funny.  If you knew my granddad — who was more like my dad since he was 43 when I was born and my dad died young — couldn’t have more contempt for trust fund babies.  If you’ve gotten a dollar from a trust fund you’ve done better than me. I’ve made my money practicing law, specifically getting very lucky on two contingency cases and using that to fund trailer parks. And I’m about 6 months from popping another and being done billing hours for the rest of my life.  

My grandma does send me and my wife checks for $1,000 each on Christmas and birthdays.  
 

So I’ve had privilege.  But a trust fund baby…that’s pure bullshit.  

[hobbes2702 12,481]

4 hours ago, aggie08 said:

You're not a smart man if you thought that Huckleberry's post was meant to compliment Al Sharpton.

Well it’s onboard so...

[TornACL 7,652]

Just remember, when it says "To protect and serve" on the squad cars, they mean themselves.