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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Nope said:

You’re saying pocket presence is intrinsic and can’t be learned/taught, an exceptional claim to make and not support 

Quinn is quintessential proof for all the training, trainers, and coaching he’s had(hint it’s been the best his whole life). I think you’re conflating rhythm and timing or a passer to pocket awareness.
 

So tell me how can someone who has had the best coaching his entire life absolutely be dog shit at it if it is something that can be coached?

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
16 minutes ago, Derka said:

he has supported the claim. quinn has spent his entire like being trained and coached by the best specialists in the game, and he still has zero pocket presence. he’s not neutral, or even mediocre- his pocket presence is terrible. guys don’t spend their entire lives receiving world class coaching on pocket presence, suck at it, and then suddenly get “taught” to have pocket presence in the pros, where everything is twice as fast and 10x more complicated. if someone could teach quinn ewers pocket presence it would have happened by now.

 

14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Quinn is quintessential proof for all the training, trainers, and coaching he’s had(hint it’s been the best his whole life). I think you’re conflating rhythm and timing or a passer to pocket awareness. 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

Hudson Card, Garrett Gilbert, are a few others with same shit pocket awareness as Quinn who have been coached by highly respected QB trainers as well. 
 

Manziel represents the opposite of this spectrum as someone that possessed elite pocket awareness with not great coaching and self admitted never studied film. 
 

You can practice escape drills until the cows come home but if the QB has no feel for when the defender is coming, where he’s coming from, or where to escape to then those escape drills are useless.  At best you bail too early on a clean pocket, at worse you bail too late and get blasted. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
4 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

So one guy regressing in this area means it can’t be taught to any QB who starts off bad at it?

things like pocket presence are pretty much something you either have or you don’t. it’s like how some guys have “a feel for the game”. you don’t teach that to someone, he either has it or he doesn’t. if you show up to the nfl with terrible pocket presence after dedicating your entire life to playing qb, then yes, you are fucked. it’s like taking someone who’s afraid of snakes and throwing them into a giant rattlesnake pit- you can “teach” them whatever you want, but they’re either comfortable there or they aren’t. quinn ewers is very very very uncomfortable whenever there are people on the field who want to tackle him. not a whole lot anyone can do to fix that, especially now.

Posted

i gotta tell you, this contingent of people who don’t understand that pocket presence isn't something that you can transform once you enter the nfl is something to behold. we’re not talking about a skill where you can do a bunch of reps, improve your form and timing, and see marked improvement. you’re either calm and collected when the pass rush is on or you’re not. there are no stories of guys who were scared to death of the pass rush in college, then they got with andy reid or sean mcvey and suddenly became the picture of cool. it doesn’t happen. you pretty much either have it or you don’t. i don’t even know that there were people who didn’t know this before today.

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Posted
56 minutes ago, Nope said:

All around the country I see young QBs with shit pocket presence develop into older guys who do it decently.

Unfortunate that QE was an exception 

As you probably know, I was kidding.  However, I agree with you.  Some folks can survive on innate talent until a certain point.  Then, they develop new skills.  etc.

Posted
21 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Hudson Card, Garrett Gilbert, are a few others with same shit pocket awareness as Quinn who have been coached by highly respected QB trainers as well. 
 

Manziel represents the opposite of this spectrum as someone that possessed elite pocket awareness with not great coaching and self admitted never studied film. 
 

You can practice escape drills until the cows come home but if the QB has no feel then those escape drills are useless. 

This post has me smiling that Arch was frequently running for his life at Isadore Newman.

And the fact that he played hoops was always a good thing, but playing for a non-power with an ever-collapsing pocket bodes well for our future.

🏈🥉🏀🤘

Posted

It’s likely much easier to coach the awareness out of a player than to coach it into them.

Sark has the inkling to be the type to coach it out of you.  He might be backing off that some.

Both of the points of discussion are heavily impacted by coaching and the environment.  Sometimes less coaching results in better production.  Vince Young is far from the only guy that needed “let him play.”

Posted (edited)

We need an "ignore" option for threads instead of just users. That way we can click on "next unread topic" without circling back into the sewage leak. If it exists, forgive my ignorance and teach me to use it, please.

Edited by Magus Ossis
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Posted
23 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh so just Quinn allow me to tee off then. The fucking guy has had private QB coaching his entire life, trains with Mahommes private trainer as well, was coached by Sark, and coached by Riley Dodge in HS. He’s had the best coaching you can get to this point yet this bum shits himself in the pocket at the hint of perceived pressure. So yeah tell again how you can coach pocket awareness…..

media.gif.1fed236853bbd1e0112ae56957ead52a.gif

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Posted
20 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

"The Texas quarterback and former five-star recruit has displayed above-average accuracy to only the shorter levels of the field. Once Ewers starts throwing the ball over the middle, toward the boundaries, or deep down the field, his efficiency takes a steep hit.

It’s tough to watch Ewers try to drive a football toward the boundaries. He was on-target on just 46% of these looks, the lowest number I’ve ever charted to that level of the field. He’s also on-target on a sub-50% clip throwing the ball deep down the field as well. He was on-target on just 45% there as well. While he was a bit more accurate over the middle at 65%, this number is still a massive 5% below average historically.

Ewers has the worst accuracy and ball placement profile of any quarterback I have charted in the last three years and there is a real reason to wonder whether or not he actively held the Longhorns back from competing for a national title."

He should have come out the prior year. He would have been a higher pick, even with more and better QBs in the draft. The injuries in 24 really put out any flame he had, leaving him with an occasional spark. 

He'll be a practice squad QB at worst this season. 

10 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

We need an "ignore" option for threads instead of just users. That way we can click on "next unread topic" without circling back into the sewage leak. If it exists, forgive my ignorance and teach me to use it, please.

You know which thread to ignore. This one. 

Posted
52 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

@Derkayou know you can respond to multiple posts in one quote so you don’t have to do a consecutive triple post right?

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

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Posted

You can use the plus button and it saves it from page to page. So you can just quote all posts and address them individually 

6 minutes ago, Derka said:

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

 

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Posted
21 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

"The Texas quarterback and former five-star recruit has displayed above-average accuracy to only the shorter levels of the field. Once Ewers starts throwing the ball over the middle, toward the boundaries, or deep down the field, his efficiency takes a steep hit."

------------------

I stood by my stance the entire time that accuracy and pocket awareness can’t be taught. Completion percentage can be easily gamed from near the LOS and check downs. It’s not a tell of accuracy. I posted numbers that support my theory that Quinn is not accurate from his on target rate. Sorry you’re wrong and complete moron for thinking completion percentage is accuracy 

I normally don't like doing this, but this is who you cited.  Forgive me if the esteemed Cory Kinnan doesn't inspire me with confidence in his opinion on QB play.   

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F97788694-1f5b-47ac-8ac0-4fb576edfd13_378x436.png

 

You stood by the stance, but you are just wrong.  3 Individuals have been presented (1 college, 2 pros) to refute this claim.   Now, you can stand by this stance and claim that completion percentage isn't a perfect metric, and you will get no argument from me about that, but when I press you for a better one out there what do you have?   For now, it seems like the best proxy out there.  And while we are being exacting, let's parse accuracy from precision and see if we can that delineated better?   As far as statistics being gamed, I suppose that is true, but I tend to think that coaches will call plays with higher percentages of success than ones with lower percentages more-often, not just QE's coach.  Do you have evidence this was happening?  

Since we are being precise with our terminology now, let's first define what pocket awareness is before bothering to discuss it.  Morons like me, think definitions matter.  

Quote

@Derka Stated 

wait a second- you can’t engage me civilly because there’s an “easy to find” video of quinn ewers throwing a ball 80+ yards when he was in middle school, and yet you’ve neither found nor posted said video?

you’re actually in here being a prick and talking shit when i’m not, you can’t even find or post the video that i should have supposedly found very easily, and you still think *I’M* the problem poster? lmao, you fuckers are so completely self deluded it’s fascinating.

I hardly think you should be calling anyone out for failing to show receipts.  I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

 

 

Maybe it is fake, I can't tell where he is when he catches it.  But it wasn't hard to find.  

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Derka said:

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

I do. It always irritates me when I have something intelligent and witty to add to a discussion, and someone beats me to it. 

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

i have zero idea what you’re talking about. who requested what from me?

Posted
37 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I normally don't like doing this, but this is who you cited.  Forgive me if the esteemed Cory Kinnan doesn't inspire me with confidence in his opinion on QB play.   

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F97788694-1f5b-47ac-8ac0-4fb576edfd13_378x436.png

 

You stood by the stance, but you are just wrong.  3 Individuals have been presented (1 college, 2 pros) to refute this claim.   Now, you can stand by this stance and claim that completion percentage isn't a perfect metric, and you will get no argument from me about that, but when I press you for a better one out there what do you have?   For now, it seems like the best proxy out there.  And while we are being exacting, let's parse accuracy from precision and see if we can that delineated better?   As far as statistics being gamed, I suppose that is true, but I tend to think that coaches will call plays with higher percentages of success than ones with lower percentages more-often, not just QE's coach.  Do you have evidence this was happening?  

Since we are being precise with our terminology now, let's first define what pocket awareness is before bothering to discuss it.  Morons like me, think definitions matter.  

I hardly think you should be calling anyone out for failing to show receipts.  I mean you have been only requested to do what you said you could, 3 or 4 times now.   

 

 

Maybe it is fake, I can't tell where he is when he catches it.  But it wasn't hard to find.  

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

you talked all of that shit and then posted a video of quinn in high school? in what way is that video relevant to the condescendingly repeated assertion that there was “easy to find” video of quinn ewers throwing 80+ in middle school

Posted
42 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Here is another toss, reportedly at 70 yards.  Not that @AnotherLawyer needs my help.    

 

you both need help. y’all talked all of that shit for a page and a half and this is what you’ve come up with. y’all “can’t be civil with me” because i was insulting to anyone who believes that quinn ewers was throwing 80+ in middle school (seriously, if you believe that, you’re a moron, and if me saying that upsets you, well…), and then you respond by going, “hers a video of him throwing 70 when he was in HS you idiot derka. showed you.” yeah. you really showed me.

Posted
40 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I do. It always irritates me when I have something intelligent and witty to add to a discussion, and someone beats me to it. 

well i never have anything witty or intelligent to say, so this doesn’t apply to me.

Posted
1 minute ago, Kennythetiger said:

You’re both. And I miss the A Year in the Life movies. 

preciate you! working on one right now! 🤘🏼 

Posted
9 minutes ago, lemonandaturd said:

Y'all ought to bet each other whether Ewers will have a more successful career in the NFL than Greg McElroy.  Both from Southlake Carroll and both drafted in the seventh round.  

image.png.95b1d3f10aadc82bbf7ae4dfb7bda3c8.png

For the gamblers among us, that is Greg McElroy's lifetime stat line.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

image.png.95b1d3f10aadc82bbf7ae4dfb7bda3c8.png

For the gamblers among us, that is Greg McElroy's lifetime stat line.

ok i’m as down on quinn as anyone, but 31 are we attempts? damn. he ought to be able to eclipse that. probably not the nfl career that mcelroy dreamed of.

Posted

I don't have a dog in this internet scrap, but some folks here think he will get cut in camp and others think he will be a very good NFL QB.  McElroy seems like a good baseline for you all to settle this with some real hard cash.  

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Posted
9 minutes ago, lemonandaturd said:

I don't have a dog in this internet scrap, but some folks here think he will get cut in camp and others think he will be a very good NFL QB.  McElroy seems like a good baseline for you all to settle this with some real hard cash.  

People think he’s gonna get cut in camp? There’s a near zero chance of that happening 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

People think he’s gonna get cut in camp?

Yep. Most teams only carry 2 QBs so he’s competing for the backup job with MILF Hunter.

that said, Miami has kept 3 QBs on the roster and still may do so.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Yep. Most teams only carry 2 QBs so he’s competing for the backup job with MILF Hunter.

that said, Miami has kept 3 QBs on the roster and still may do so.

Miami isn’t running 2 QBs on the roster when Tua is one of them. They will almost assuredly carry 3 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Miami isn’t running 2 QBs on the roster when Tua is one of them. They will almost assuredly carry 3 

I have almost zero interest in the NFL, but what happens when they carry 2 on the gameday roster and 1 on the scout team?  Can the scout QB be called up in one week if one of the other two gets injured?

Posted
23 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Miami isn’t running 2 QBs on the roster when Tua is one of them. They will almost assuredly carry 3 

Agreed.

Posted
6 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

@Derkayou know you can respond to multiple posts in one quote so you don’t have to do a consecutive triple post right?

 

5 hours ago, Derka said:

are there really people on this site who click on a thread, read every single unread post (in this case like i’m looking at ~75 unread posts), and then go back and reply to the posts they want to reply to? is that actually a thing?

 

5 hours ago, immamac said:

You can use the plus button and it saves it from page to page. So you can just quote all posts and address them individually 

 

Ain't nobody got time for that.gif

Let him cook. 

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Posted
Miami isn’t running 2 QBs on the roster when Tua is one of them. They will almost assuredly carry 3 

Doesn’t mean that Ewers will be the third, if they do.
Posted
41 minutes ago, The Dog said:

IMG_3469.thumb.jpeg.ba64d4e8aa3322f427e82d0bd46c2c85.jpeg

Which of you is Paul?

1) Quinn went 11-3 as a starter in 2024.

2) Innactive QB can come in a game if the first 2 QBs get knocked out. 

Do not know if that applies to QB3 if he is on the practice squad, but I believe that it would be allowed. 

Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Nivek said:

I normally don't like doing this, but this is who you cited.  Forgive me if the esteemed Cory Kinnan doesn't inspire me with confidence in his opinion on QB play.   

https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F97788694-1f5b-47ac-8ac0-4fb576edfd13_378x436.png

 

You stood by the stance, but you are just wrong.  3 Individuals have been presented (1 college, 2 pros) to refute this claim.   Now, you can stand by this stance and claim that completion percentage isn't a perfect metric, and you will get no argument from me about that, but when I press you for a better one out there what do you have?   For now, it seems like the best proxy out there.  And while we are being exacting, let's parse accuracy from precision and see if we can that delineated better?   As far as statistics being gamed, I suppose that is true, but I tend to think that coaches will call plays with higher percentages of success than ones with lower percentages more-often, not just QE's coach.  Do you have evidence this was happening?  

Since we are being precise with our terminology now, let's first define what pocket awareness is before bothering to discuss it.  Morons like me, think definitions matter.  

At this point it doesn't matter what I say, I provided you with numbers form an analytics guy and you shoot down the guy based on how he looks. Most analytics guys aren't chiseled jawline Brad Pitt looking guys. But lets be honest if you honestly think Quinn is an accurate passer beyond 10 yards then I'll just bow out of this and laugh at you for even having that thought. Every NFL scout and scouting report produced dinged Ewers for being inaccurate beyond 10 yards. They also dinged him for leaving his progressions too early and checking down thus further gaming his completion percentage. 

 

Here is some advanced stats from Lamar at Louisville with regards to accuracy. 

image.png.5612373be9826ac138b1c7a73fe6e67b.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
15 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

@Derkayou know you can respond to multiple posts in one quote so you don’t have to do a consecutive triple post right?

That dumbass will never figure that out. 

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Posted
On 5/10/2025 at 10:18 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Obviously Eli isn't in the NFL HOF . . . yet.  I think the majority opinion is that he will eventually make it.  He was only eligible just this year.

You are probably correct, but I dont think it is too deserving for reasons pointed out.  

Posted

New page, and I've been slacking on posting the Ewers gifs, so here's a big-man-TD twofer. 

Goal line TD to Murphy against Wyoming:

LSjCU5.gif

Goal line TD to Sweat in the 2023 Big 12 CCG:

QptgX-.gif

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

New page, and I've been slacking on posting the Ewers gifs, so here's a big-man-TD twofer. 

Goal line TD to Murphy against Wyoming:

LSjCU5.gif

Goal line TD to Sweat in the 2023 Big 12 CCG:

QptgX-.gif

They could have run those in but no we have to pad Ewers stats.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

They could have run those in but no we have to pad Ewers stats.

Broke: Running the ball at the goal line

Woke: Padding Ewers' stats by passing at the goal line

Bespoke: Padding Murphy's and Sweat's stats by playing them as 300 lb WRs and passing at the goal line

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Posted
2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Here is some advanced stats from Lamar at Louisville with regards to accuracy. 

image.png.5612373be9826ac138b1c7a73fe6e67b.png

 

Advanced stats are probably more useful for QB than any other position.  It’ll never tell the full story but it certainly can paint a different story than perception.  
 

I wouldn’t say completion percentage is completely useless on a standalone basis, but it has less value than it once did.  And grading while subjective, paired with other metrics, tells a good story when broken down by depth of target.  It’s pretty basic but if you throw at or near the LOS, that completion number will be higher than if you push it down the field.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

Broke: Running the ball at the goal line

Woke: Padding Ewers' stats by passing at the goal line

Bespoke: Padding Murphy's and Sweat's stats by playing them as 300 lb WRs and passing at the goal line

I do enjoy a good big man TD.  Probably more so when thrown than run.  It’s fun for everyone.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Advanced stats are probably more useful for QB than any other position.  It’ll never tell the full story but it certainly can paint a different story than perception.  
 

I wouldn’t say completion percentage is completely useless on a standalone basis, but it has less value than it once did.  And grading while subjective, paired with other metrics, tells a good story when broken down by depth of target.  It’s pretty basic but if you throw at or near the LOS, that completion number will be higher than if you push it down the field.

Which is why Josh Allen's college completion percentage numbers are not worth the time. According the advanced stats he was asked to make harder and more difficult throws than anyone else in his draft class. Baker Mayfield is kind of the golden boy of this debate as he was on target and accurate all over the field. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White

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