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2016-17 NCAA finances list is out


ButtFumble

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http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

did not see this posted and not sure where it should otherwise go

I like the revenue......the spending looks like shit considering the results and considering the overall shape and needs of facilities

this is some shit that Del needs to get a handle on it is out of fucking control

Texas had $89 million in total revenues in 2005 when Texas was last won it all in a major sport and $138 million in 2009 when Texas was last worth a shit in most major sports and the on the field/court performance has hit the shitter from there

when you spend $50 million more than Alabama,  $75 million more than OU, $88 million more than Georgia and $89 million more than Louisville and you look at the results well something is fucked somewhere

I get that Texas sends revenue back to the university, I get that athletics pays a shit load for parking spaces and garages that are used by the university mostly on regular days and I suspect that the university bills athletics $89.23 for a light bulb and $310.77 per hour to change it with a two hour minimum, but looking at that spending is just fucked

all the more so when the softball field is meh, it was like pulling teeth from an 89yo with dentures to get tennis courts built, athletics still carries a shit ton of debt and Texas wants a new swim center and something has to be done about the Errwon Center

shit Texas could have spent $25 million more than Alabama and $50 million more than OU per year for the last 5 years and they would have $125 million in the bank for an endowment, to give to the university, to pay debt or to otherwise have to actually build nice shit and pay for it up front......but that money is just fucking gone who knows where

it is one thing to be mixing in a NC in some major sport, going to a final 4 or to a CWS final and to be bringing in a shit ton of NCs in Olympic sports if you are going to spend like that.....it is just fucked to send like that and still have a shit ton of debt, a shit ton of major facilities needs, facilities that generally just keep pace with major programs and no major accomplishments in the major sports and to offer fewer sports overall than most similar sized schools.....not to mention what more transfers to academics could do for the university and the new medical school

I like what Del has done so far even with cutting people and especially with coaches and clear plans for facilities, but fuck me when it comes to the spending this shit needs to change fast

really the best that can be said about this is aggy has $85 million more in athletics related debt and a $1.1 million dollar athletics endowment Vs $30 million for Texas and they needed $46 million more in donations to have their revenue numbers (their last 3 years have been WELL above their average while Texas has been only slightly above in donations)....but fuck me is staying ahead of those fuck faces only slightly a real goal or a good place to be...

with some half assed budget/spending control Texas could have $145 less in athletics debt, $100 million more in endowment and probably with decent budget management and spending control better facilities already in place or with money in hand and give more back to the university

I just can't figure out where it all goes

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WV rolling hard with the cash.  Third in the BIg 12 and 27th nationally.  Not bad for a state with a total population less than the city of Houston.  Between the BIg 12 and our Tier 3 rights, Oliver Luck put us in a pretty good place.  

Edited by Whitman
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one thing I really like about the numbers I am seeing is the extremely low to non-existent academic subsidies in the Big 12

Texas of course sends money to the university and I am about 75% sure Texas also gets the shit billed out of them by the university for most basic services

OU has no subsidy at all including no student fees

WVU has a student fee only of $4.17 million and no other academic money and had a much higher income than expenses

KSU has $450,000 in student fees and that is it and their expenses were well under revenues

Kansas has $304K in student fees and $1.6 million in other school funds

ISU has $2.13 million in student fees and that is it no other academic money

OkState has $3.7 million in student fees and this is the first year they have had zero other academic money (they used to be on the very high end of that, but have cut it way back)

Texas Tech is $3.3 million in student fees and $2.5 million in other academic funds......a few years back Tech had that other academic money besides student fees down to $1 million per year, but they built a lot of facilities and it bumped back up, but Kubby H. has them on a plan to cut that debt down in a reasonable time frame and all current athletics projects (several of which are pretty nice and will be a major selling point) are being built on a pay as you go basis (or really a have cash in hand and probably still bond out and invest the cash basis)......so Tech is in a pretty good place even more so if mens basketball has several more good seasons and brings in the revenue (the numbers above do not reflect this last season) and with baseball possibly coming close to break even....and if womens BB can even get a pulse that wold also help.....ticket sales are down about $3.5 million from their higher points and those higher points were when mens and womens BB were not doing shit and baseball was not either.......and if football can get a pulse well they can probably get ticket sales up $4+ million from their current levels if not more and that would make a huge difference in their budget in the short and long term

 

compare the Big 12 to the PAC 12

ASU takes $10.8 million from student fees and $11 million from academics

Colorado $1.65 million from student fees and $10.9 from academics

AU takes $10 million from academics

Cal shows no money from academics, but their expenses were $16 million over their revenues and their athletics debt is something like $400 million and back loaded so they are fucked

Utah takes $6 million in student fees and $6.36 from academics

Oregon State $2.67 in student fees and $4.45 from academics

WSU $1.57 from student fees and $3.7 from academics and again their expenses were $7 million over revenues and they have been running like that for several years

several of the PAC 12 teams run high high debt as well while in the Big 12 only Tech would be looked at as having a debt that is probably higher than it should be (well the Texas debt is out of control, but Texas can afford it so Texas spends it) and OU is high, but easily sustainable.....and Tech as said before is on a plan to get that down in a meaningful fashion while several of the PAC 12 schools are just kicking the can down the road

looking at the ACC they all run high student fees (UVA $14 million) and GaTech has been written about extensively as needing to address their athletics budget issues and UVA, VT, NC, UNC, and GaTech add had expenses over their reported revenues and overall the budgets of even the top ACC teams are not on the high end of things and neither are the PAC 12 with the exception of a couple

so the Big 12 has programs that are in very good financial shape and that are not taking a great deal of money from students/academics compared to others especially in the PAC 12 and ACC and the Big 12 programs are all revenue positive.....and of course the Big 12 still brings in more from tier 1/2 than the PAC 12 and probably will for the long term and has brought in more than the ACC with the exception of one year when the Maryland exit fees were there and that was still exclusive of Big 12 3rd tier and the difference was negligible.....but that ACC network tho!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ButtFumble said:

one thing I really like about the numbers I am seeing is the extremely low to non-existent academic subsidies in the Big 12

Texas of course sends money to the university and I am about 75% sure Texas also gets the shit billed out of them by the university for most basic services

OU has no subsidy at all including no student fees

WVU has a student fee only of $4.17 million and no other academic money and had a much higher income than expenses

KSU has $450,000 in student fees and that is it and their expenses were well under revenues

Kansas has $304K in student fees and $1.6 million in other school funds

ISU has $2.13 million in student fees and that is it no other academic money

OkState has $3.7 million in student fees and this is the first year they have had zero other academic money (they used to be on the very high end of that, but have cut it way back)

Texas Tech is $3.3 million in student fees and $2.5 million in other academic funds......a few years back Tech had that other academic money besides student fees down to $1 million per year, but they built a lot of facilities and it bumped back up, but Kubby H. has them on a plan to cut that debt down in a reasonable time frame and all current athletics projects (several of which are pretty nice and will be a major selling point) are being built on a pay as you go basis (or really a have cash in hand and probably still bond out and invest the cash basis)......so Tech is in a pretty good place even more so if mens basketball has several more good seasons and brings in the revenue (the numbers above do not reflect this last season) and with baseball possibly coming close to break even....and if womens BB can even get a pulse that wold also help.....ticket sales are down about $3.5 million from their higher points and those higher points were when mens and womens BB were not doing shit and baseball was not either.......and if football can get a pulse well they can probably get ticket sales up $4+ million from their current levels if not more and that would make a huge difference in their budget in the short and long term

 

compare the Big 12 to the PAC 12

ASU takes $10.8 million from student fees and $11 million from academics

Colorado $1.65 million from student fees and $10.9 from academics

AU takes $10 million from academics

Cal shows no money from academics, but their expenses were $16 million over their revenues and their athletics debt is something like $400 million and back loaded so they are fucked

Utah takes $6 million in student fees and $6.36 from academics

Oregon State $2.67 in student fees and $4.45 from academics

WSU $1.57 from student fees and $3.7 from academics and again their expenses were $7 million over revenues and they have been running like that for several years

several of the PAC 12 teams run high high debt as well while in the Big 12 only Tech would be looked at as having a debt that is probably higher than it should be (well the Texas debt is out of control, but Texas can afford it so Texas spends it) and OU is high, but easily sustainable.....and Tech as said before is on a plan to get that down in a meaningful fashion while several of the PAC 12 schools are just kicking the can down the road

looking at the ACC they all run high student fees (UVA $14 million) and GaTech has been written about extensively as needing to address their athletics budget issues and UVA, VT, NC, UNC, and GaTech add had expenses over their reported revenues and overall the budgets of even the top ACC teams are not on the high end of things and neither are the PAC 12 with the exception of a couple

so the Big 12 has programs that are in very good financial shape and that are not taking a great deal of money from students/academics compared to others especially in the PAC 12 and ACC and the Big 12 programs are all revenue positive.....and of course the Big 12 still brings in more from tier 1/2 than the PAC 12 and probably will for the long term and has brought in more than the ACC with the exception of one year when the Maryland exit fees were there and that was still exclusive of Big 12 3rd tier and the difference was negligible.....but that ACC network tho!

 

 

 

This is a good summary of the discrepancy of revenues between the XII & PAC, and how the (some schools) PAC might look to do a merger to increase earnings with the XII...

I also posted your article on the dirtburglars site on the neverending conference realignment thread, showing how the XII is far healthier than either the PAC or ACC in earnings...

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2 hours ago, Whitman said:

WV rolling hard with the cash.  Third in the BIg 12 and 27th nationally.  Not bad for a state with a total population less than the city of Houston.  Between the BIg 12 and our Tier 3 rights, Andrew Luck put us in a pretty good place.  

 

513Z6AVQNCL._SY445_.jpg

 

Why should I worry?
Why should I care?
WVU now has a few dimes
And that Power 5 savoir faire

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There was an accompanying story along with that about schools going into major debt for athletics and it focused on the Pac-12 schools who aren't brining in as much money as they thought with their new TV deal.  (Duh.)

Laughed at this quote:

 

“We’ve probably all put ourselves in the position where we’re always looking for that next biggest thing, and that means you probably spend more than you should,” said Schulz, who previously served as chairman of the NCAA board of governors and president of Kansas State. “And I think we’ve reached the point where frankly some of that spending is going to plateau because there aren’t huge new piles of revenue that are going to come into those schools. So you better live within your means or find alternative ways to fund your ambitions.”

There is a new pile of revenue.  Come to daddy.....

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The spending is getting a little absurd. At this point they are platinum plating the gold plating that was put over the silver plating. You have to think there are diminishing returns at this point.

Though as long as no academic or public money is going to fund this absurdity at UT I am alright with it.

Edited by Valmy77
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12 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

There was an accompanying story along with that about schools going into major debt for athletics and it focused on the Pac-12 schools who aren't brining in as much money as they thought with their new TV deal.  (Duh.)

Laughed at this quote:

 

 

There is a new pile of revenue.  Come to daddy.....

 

yea here are a couple of stories

for some odd reason this one only gives the Big 12 numbers which are not that bad

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-04/college-football-s-top-teams-are-built-on-crippling-debt

in this one keep in mind those listed numbers are annual debt service not total debt and the Cal debt is way back loaded

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/24/college-hotline-pac-12-schools-project-massive-fy17-debt-service-payments-were-talking-nine-figures-folks/

this one gives debt service numbers for the Big 12 for a comparison

http://www.lubbockonline.com/article/20150613/sports/306139867

really only Texas Tech is out of line in the Big 12 on where they should be and they have a plan in place to handle it and if they can have a decent couple of football seasons and with mens BB looking good if they can get back to earning $15+ million in ticket sales they can knock out that debt even faster

everyone else in the Big 12 is in really good shape overall even with all the new facilities and pretty much everyone including Tech is building facilities right now with money in hand not taking on more debt

the PAC 12 is in pretty terrible shape overall

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Yeah, the Pac-12 is going to be forced into the Pac-16 like a foster kid being sent to a different home.  They were behind in facilities before the Pac-12 and with the money they thought they'd get from the new deal, had to borrow just to catch up with everyone else.  Now, they're buried in some of these deals.  (Good find on the article on the Mercury News.  Didn't realize the debt service was that large.)  It has to burn their ass that West Virginia (a small school in a small, rural state) is getting significantly more than USC and UCLA.

They clutched their pearls at the horror of accepting the academics in Lubbock, Stillwater, and Norman but they'll be doing the walk of shame to road games in those towns within 10 years.  

 

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If the PAC is desperate for cash, I don't see why that would force us to dump some of our conference partners. If they are joining us, and not the other way around, then all ten of our members should stay. 

Anyway re-alignment talk not going away.

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27 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, the Pac-12 is going to be forced into the Pac-16 like a foster kid being sent to a different home.  They were behind in facilities before the Pac-12 and with the money they thought they'd get from the new deal, had to borrow just to catch up with everyone else.  Now, they're buried in some of these deals.  (Good find on the article on the Mercury News.  Didn't realize the debt service was that large.)  It has to burn their ass that West Virginia (a small school in a small, rural state) is getting significantly more than USC and UCLA.

They clutched their pearls at the horror of accepting the academics in Lubbock, Stillwater, and Norman but they'll be doing the walk of shame to road games in those towns within 10 years.  

 

Won Director's Cup, Don't care.

fencingaction_17.JPG

Edited by tantric superman
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If ESPN/Disney wants to block the Pac deal, they need to put together a package that adds Houston and Arkansas and puts enough money on the table that forces Arkansas' hand out of the SEC.  The current Arky leadership is a lot more Texas centric than in the past with Aggie Chad and the new AD being from UH.  

Pac-12 had their chance.  Wish there was a way we could throw Baylor's ass out on the street, though.  That definitely happens if the Big 12 dissolves.

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19 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

If ESPN/Disney wants to block the Pac deal, they need to put together a package that adds Houston and Arkansas and puts enough money on the table that forces Arkansas' hand out of the SEC.  The current Arky leadership is a lot more Texas centric than in the past with Aggie Chad and the new AD being from UH.  

Pac-12 had their chance.  Wish there was a way we could throw Baylor's ass out on the street, though.  That definitely happens if the Big 12 dissolves.

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12? I think they'd be a positive net addition to the conference, and the travel involving them, frankly, isn't problematic. I'm sure they've got all kinds of bizarre allegiances to the west coast at this point, but the money disparity is pretty significant. 

I've long viewed the Big 12 as a dead conference that was playing out a string, but adding AU, ASU, CU and Utah wouldn't be the worst course of action. Throw in BYU and throw out Baylor and you've suddenly got a really interesting middle of the country conference with strong brands and damned good football with a sprinkling of quality in the other sports as well. 

Whatever. It's all fantasy as long as we're stuck in this GOR shit. Fun to ponder in a non-realignment thread of doom, also.

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34 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12?

Because Arizona is functionally a suburb of southern California.

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As consolation,    we finished 5th in this year's Directors' Cup.     Though the big 3 is what drives the public image and generates the $$$.

Excerpt:

AUSTIN, Texas — The University of Texas placed fifth in the final 2017-18 Division I Learfield Directors' Cup standings, the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics (NACDA) announced Saturday. This marked the highest finish in the standings for Texas since a fifth-place showing in 2007-08.

UT, the top-ranked institution in the Big 12 Conference and the state of Texas, finishes among the Top 10 for a fifth-straight year and for the sixth time in the last seven seasons. Stanford won the Cup with 1,442.00 points and was followed in the top five by UCLA (1,326.00), Florida (1,216.00), USC (1,147.00) and Texas (1,143.25).

https://texassports.com/news/2018/6/29/texas-athletics-ranks-fifth-in-final-division-i-learfield-directors-cup-standings.aspx

 

 

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12? I think they'd be a positive net addition to the conference, and the travel involving them, frankly, isn't problematic. I'm sure they've got all kinds of bizarre allegiances to the west coast at this point, but the money disparity is pretty significant. 

I've long viewed the Big 12 as a dead conference that was playing out a string, but adding AU, ASU, CU and Utah wouldn't be the worst course of action. Throw in BYU and throw out Baylor and you've suddenly got a really interesting middle of the country conference with strong brands and damned good football with a sprinkling of quality in the other sports as well. 

Whatever. It's all fantasy as long as we're stuck in this GOR shit. Fun to ponder in a non-realignment thread of doom, also.

I am not sure the GOR is even binding on us.  Sovereign immunity could very well vitiate it.

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12? I think they'd be a positive net addition to the conference, and the travel involving them, frankly, isn't problematic. I'm sure they've got all kinds of bizarre allegiances to the west coast at this point, but the money disparity is pretty significant. 

I've long viewed the Big 12 as a dead conference that was playing out a string, but adding AU, ASU, CU and Utah wouldn't be the worst course of action. Throw in BYU and throw out Baylor and you've suddenly got a really interesting middle of the country conference with strong brands and damned good football with a sprinkling of quality in the other sports as well. 

Whatever. It's all fantasy as long as we're stuck in this GOR shit. Fun to ponder in a non-realignment thread of doom, also.

You had me at throw out Baylor.

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3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12? I think they'd be a positive net addition to the conference, and the travel involving them, frankly, isn't problematic. I'm sure they've got all kinds of bizarre allegiances to the west coast at this point, but the money disparity is pretty significant. 

I've long viewed the Big 12 as a dead conference that was playing out a string, but adding AU, ASU, CU and Utah wouldn't be the worst course of action. Throw in BYU and throw out Baylor and you've suddenly got a really interesting middle of the country conference with strong brands and damned good football with a sprinkling of quality in the other sports as well. 

Whatever. It's all fantasy as long as we're stuck in this GOR shit. Fun to ponder in a non-realignment thread of doom, also.

Add the AZ schools, Colorado and Utah if and only if the revenue increases by current payout per school ++.  Would have to be north of 140mm I guess

Edited by Poolflood
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On 6/28/2018 at 9:14 PM, ButtFumble said:

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

did not see this posted and not sure where it should otherwise go

I like the revenue......the spending looks like shit considering the results and considering the overall shape and needs of facilities

this is some shit that Del needs to get a handle on it is out of fucking control

Texas had $89 million in total revenues in 2005 when Texas was last won it all in a major sport and $138 million in 2009 when Texas was last worth a shit in most major sports and the on the field/court performance has hit the shitter from there

when you spend $50 million more than Alabama,  $75 million more than OU, $88 million more than Georgia and $89 million more than Louisville and you look at the results well something is fucked somewhere

I get that Texas sends revenue back to the university, I get that athletics pays a shit load for parking spaces and garages that are used by the university mostly on regular days and I suspect that the university bills athletics $89.23 for a light bulb and $310.77 per hour to change it with a two hour minimum, but looking at that spending is just fucked

all the more so when the softball field is meh, it was like pulling teeth from an 89yo with dentures to get tennis courts built, athletics still carries a shit ton of debt and Texas wants a new swim center and something has to be done about the Errwon Center

shit Texas could have spent $25 million more than Alabama and $50 million more than OU per year for the last 5 years and they would have $125 million in the bank for an endowment, to give to the university, to pay debt or to otherwise have to actually build nice shit and pay for it up front......but that money is just fucking gone who knows where

it is one thing to be mixing in a NC in some major sport, going to a final 4 or to a CWS final and to be bringing in a shit ton of NCs in Olympic sports if you are going to spend like that.....it is just fucked to send like that and still have a shit ton of debt, a shit ton of major facilities needs, facilities that generally just keep pace with major programs and no major accomplishments in the major sports and to offer fewer sports overall than most similar sized schools.....not to mention what more transfers to academics could do for the university and the new medical school

I like what Del has done so far even with cutting people and especially with coaches and clear plans for facilities, but fuck me when it comes to the spending this shit needs to change fast

really the best that can be said about this is aggy has $85 million more in athletics related debt and a $1.1 million dollar athletics endowment Vs $30 million for Texas and they needed $46 million more in donations to have their revenue numbers (their last 3 years have been WELL above their average while Texas has been only slightly above in donations)....but fuck me is staying ahead of those fuck faces only slightly a real goal or a good place to be...

with some half assed budget/spending control Texas could have $145 less in athletics debt, $100 million more in endowment and probably with decent budget management and spending control better facilities already in place or with money in hand and give more back to the university

I just can't figure out where it all goes

And now for the rest of the story... 

quote:
While the report shows Texas A&M with about $147 million in operating expenses for 2017 — an apparent annual surplus of more than $65 million — it also shows the school with just under $67 million in athletics-related capital expenditures during the year. When schools borrow money to build or refurbish athletics facilities, the NCAA currently requires them to count annual debt service payments — the amount of principal and interest they repay in a given year — as an operational expense. Cash spending on facilities is supposed to be counted, and reported, separately from annual operating expenses. 

As a result, contributions to Texas A&M’s athletics program that were made in 2017 and spent on facilities projects that year are being reported as operating revenue while most of the corresponding spending on those projects is not being reported as an annual operating expense. 

Texas A&M athletics department’s chief financial officer, Jeff Toole, told USA TODAY Sports that when the facilities-related contributions are removed from consideration for 2017, “we are basically break-even, maybe a little less than break-even, for the year.”
https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-football/latest-revenue-numbers/77454728/page-3/
 
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4 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I've never seriously considered what I'm about to type, but after looking at all of the existing data and the trends, why is it absurd to think that perhaps the Arizona schools would join the Big 12? I think they'd be a positive net addition to the conference, and the travel involving them, frankly, isn't problematic.

Morgantown WV to Tucson, AZ = 2,071 miles.

Morgantown WV to Tempe, AZ = 2,070 miles.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Whitman
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2 minutes ago, Whitman said:

Morgantown WV to Tucson, AZ = 2,071 miles.

Morgantown WV to Tempe, AZ = 2,070 miles.

 

 

 

 

You can surely understand that, with me being an entitled and arrogant Texas fan and all, I don't give two fucks about your plight with this kind of deal. Be happy to be seated at the big boy table, say thank you, and enjoy swinging from our nuts. You're welcome, sir.

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They missed all the private schools.   I went in and tracked down revenue from title ix, but it could be a year old.  Should be close enough though to help out the Pac-12 and ACC.

Conference Average Revenue
SEC $137,622,490
Big Ten $122,555,536
Big 12 $112,825,779
Pac-12 $101,830,832
ACC $94,813,086

 

Conference After Expense/Subsidy
SEC $15,018,615
Big 12 $4,974,097
Big Ten ($2,265,253)
Pac-12 ($5,165,210)
ACC ($5,461,124)

 

Also, as previously stated, A&M is only that high due to those capital projects.   They are below on every revenue number, but this one

YEAR TEXAS CONTRIBUTIONS A&M CONTRIBUTIONS
2011 $37,337,126 $18,059,015
2012 $40,747,347 $53,388,379
2013 $37,386,271 $15,291,423
2014 $37,633,031 $36,312,515
2015 $44,273,349 $92,062,837
2016 $42,159,118 $75,457,474
2017 $46,019,194 $93,134,590

 

Edit:  Also, interesting little note within here.   You cannot pull this data en masse, but a quick check of what makes up revenue within the schools, rights, where broadcast would be and all these TV contracts people yell about, doesn't make up the biggest difference.  It is usually within gifts and ticket revenue, which can vary greatly.   In the Big 12 the difference between first and last was $58 million in ticket sales.  

Edited by Hurtlocker
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