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Worldwide Israel/Palestine War Protests Thread


bolverk

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5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

This is the protest thread, right? More of them in Israel.

In this article, there's mention of a poll showing that "A Majority of Jewish Israelis See a Hostage Deal as a Higher National Priority Than Military Action in Rafah"

 

Protesters Disrupt Israeli Memorial Day Events Over War Raging in Gaza
A day of national mourning was interrupted by hecklers who blamed government officials for failing to secure the release of hostages still being held by Hamas.

Israelis gathered across the country on Monday for the first national day of mourning since the Hamas-led Oct. 7 attacks, with protesters disrupting several ceremonies as they demanded that government ministers do more to secure the release of hostages.

Israel’s Memorial Day is normally one of the most somber on the country’s calendar, a date when Israelis put aside their differences to grieve fellow citizens killed in war or terrorist attacks. But the protests on Monday underscored how feelings of wartime unity have given way to deep disputes over the war in the Gaza Strip, the fate of hostages taken on Oct. 7 and domestic politics.

Critics heckled Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as he attended a memorial at Mount Herzl in Jerusalem, the site of Israel’s national cemetery. One person was heard shouting, “Garbage.” Another said, “You took my children.”

At a ceremony in Ashdod, on the Mediterranean coast, bystanders shouted at the national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, calling him a “criminal,” before his supporters tried to drown them out.

While the government has managed to secure the release of more than 100 hostages abducted by Hamas in the attacks, at least half of the roughly 240 people who were taken are either dead or still in captivity. Many of their loved ones want the government to agree to an immediate cease-fire with Hamas that would allow for the remaining captives to be released, even it means leaving Hamas in control of parts of Gaza.

The disruptions have precedent. Protesters taunted Mr. Ben-Gvir and other ministers last year, before the war began, when anger over the government’s efforts to overhaul the judicial system were the most prominent source of social division.

This year’s protests reflected growing anguish among parts of the population about the way Mr. Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition government has handled the war, causing enormous casualties and destruction.

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Mr. Netanyahu has repeatedly pledged total victory over Hamas. But fighting across the Gaza Strip in recent days has underlined the notion that Hamas militants are still a force in the territory and might remain one for a long time to come. The pattern that has emerged in the war is that, after pitched battles, Israel’s military declares that it has taken control of an area and then moves on, only for Hamas fighters to return and reconstitute their forces.

On Monday, Israeli airstrikes shook the northern and southern ends of the territory, with the Israeli military saying it had struck more than 120 targets over the past 24 hours. Ground troops also engaged Hamas fighters in several locations, the Israeli military said. Amid the fighting, tens of thousands of fleeing civilians continued a desperate search for safety.

The fighting appeared to be heaviest in Gaza City, Beit Lahia and Jabaliya in northern Gaza, and in Rafah, the southern city where more than one million Palestinians had fled to try to escape Israel’s military offensive farther north. In recent days, hundreds of thousands have left Rafah, according to the United Nations.

Hamas said on Monday that it had launched mortars at Israeli soldiers near the Rafah crossing, which links Gaza and Egypt and has been closed since Israel seized it last week.

A spokesman for the United Nations said Monday that a U.N. staff member was killed Monday morning when a U.N. vehicle was struck on the way to a hospital in Rafah. Around 200 United Nations staff have been killed in the conflict.

Israeli society closed ranks behind the government and military immediately after the Hamas-led Oct. 7. But critics increasingly blame Mr. Netanyahu for failing to prevent the attacks, which the Israeli authorities say killed roughly 1,200 people, and for prolonging the war without winning the return of the hostages.

A poll conducted this month by the Israel Democracy Institute, a Jerusalem-based research group, suggests that a majority of Israelis see a hostage deal as a priority over a military operation in Rafah. Israeli officials call the city Hamas’s last major stronghold in Gaza, with battalions of fighters concealed there, but U.S. officials say that the group’s leaders in the territory are hiding in the city of Khan Younis, not Rafah.

Israel and Hamas have not agreed to a cease-fire and hostage release, despite months of mediation. And Mr. Netanyahu has insisted that Israeli forces will invade Rafah, with or without such a deal, amid threats by his far-right coalition partners to bring down the government if the war ends without the total defeat of Hamas.

On Monday at a Memorial Day ceremony in Holon, in central Israel, hecklers shouted at Miri Regev, the transportation minister, and called on her to resign. One asked: “What about the hostages?”

As Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, attended a ceremony in Tel Aviv, a protester held up a sign that said: “Their blood is on your hands.”

On Sunday night, Israeli peace activists broadcast their annual Joint Israeli-Palestinian Memorial Day Ceremony, with parallel events in London, New York and Los Angeles.

The ceremony is organized by Combatants for Peace and the Parents Circle-Families Forum, two peace-building organizations, and tries to recognize not only Israeli grief, but also the toll of Palestinian suffering over the decades.

The ceremony, held annually since 2006, was prerecorded this year to avoid the possibility of disruption by protesters. It featured speeches, songs, a poem about peace and a video that showed children in Israel and the Israeli-occupied West Bank talking about the effect of war.

Palestinians in the West Bank did not participate in person, given that Israel stopped allowing many Palestinians to work in Israel after the Oct. 7 attacks. There were also no direct contributions by speakers in Gaza.

More than 35,000 people have been killed in Gaza during Israeli’s military campaign to defeat Hamas, mostly children and women, health officials there say. Almost everyone in Gaza has been displaced from their homes amid a hunger crisis that aid workers say has been largely caused by Israeli restrictions on aid deliveries to the enclave.

The peace groups’ ceremony, which was screened at more than 200 venues in Israel, reflected the diversity and complexity of opinion within Israeli society about the war. Several speakers discussed their hope for an end to generations of bloodshed, and for peace.

Ghadir Hani read a contribution from a woman in Gaza, whose name was given only as Najla, describing how she had lost 20 family members in the war, including her brother, a father of two, who she said had been killed while going to look for food for his parents.

“They killed him while walking in the street though posing no threat whatsoever,” Ms. Hani read. “The death machine is still ready to kill,” she added. “But I know that on the other side there are many people who believe in peace.”

 

bEt ThOsE pRoTeStErS cAnT eVeN fInD IsRaEl oN a MaP

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

The IDF selected such calls out of how many to leak to your timeline? No wayyyy.

 

 

All the others were interviews etc., not IDF related.

 

 

Edited by PRONG HORN
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Uh, politics, free speech, and centuries of Israeli-Palestinian tension aside..............................that was a really weird fucking song choice to pair with their 'demonstration.'

Did the Pixar song writers start a Middle East/East Coast law school department, or?  

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Army Officer Resigns in Protest of ‘Unqualified’ U.S. Support to Israel
While assigned to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Maj. Harrison Mann said he was enabling policies that violated his conscience.

An Army officer assigned to the Defense Intelligence Agency has resigned in protest over the United States’ support for Israel, which he said had “enabled and empowered” the killing of Palestinian civilians.

The officer, Maj. Harrison Mann, announced his resignation and explained his reasons for leaving the service in a post on the social media site LinkedIn on Monday. According to his biography on the site, he has specialized in the Middle East and Africa for about half of his 13-year career and previously served at the U.S. Embassy in Tunis.

“The policy that has never been far from my mind for the past six months is the nearly unqualified support for the government of Israel, which has enabled and empowered the killing and starvation of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians,” Major Mann wrote in the post, which noted that he had emailed his comments to co-workers on April 16. “This unconditional support also encourages reckless escalation that risks wider war.”

Reached by phone on Monday, Major Mann confirmed that he was the author of the post but declined to comment further, referring questions to the D.I.A.’s office of corporate communications.

It is unclear whether other military officers have resigned in protest of U.S. foreign policy since the deadly Hamas-led attacks in Israel in October ignited the war, but the resignation of an active-duty officer in protest of U.S. foreign policy is most likely uncommon — especially one in which the officer makes public the reasons for doing so.

A spokeswoman for the Army was not immediately able to confirm whether other officers had resigned for similar reasons since the war began.

As the death toll in Gaza has risen, the Biden administration has faced waves of internal dissent for supporting Israel in the war. In October, Josh Paul, a State Department official in the bureau that oversees arms transfers, resigned in protest of the administration’s decision to continue sending weapons to Israel.

Major Mann said that he had planned to leave the Army “at some point” but that the Gaza war led him to submit his resignation in November and leave his assignment at the D.I.A. early.

Lt. Col. Ruth Castro, an Army spokeswoman, said his request was approved on Jan. 8 and would become effective on June 3.

According to his LinkedIn profile, Major Mann became an infantry officer after receiving his commission in 2011, then studied at the Army’s John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center in North Carolina and qualified as a civil affairs officer in 2016. About three years later, his biography states, he became a foreign area officer specializing in the Middle East.

Regional specialists are often posted at American embassies and may serve as defense attachés, who act as high-level liaisons between the Pentagon and the host nation’s military. Attachés also are trained to evaluate requests for weapons and training from foreign powers and make recommendations to State Department officials as to whether proving such aid is necessary and in line with federal laws on protecting human rights.

In his note, Major Mann said he had continued to carry out his duties at the Defense Intelligence Agency without voicing his concerns, hoping that the war would soon be over.

“I told myself my individual contribution was minimal, and that if I didn’t do my job, someone else would, so why cause a stir for nothing?” he wrote.

“My work here — however administrative or marginal it appeared — has unquestionably contributed to that support,” his post said. “The past months have presented us with the most horrific and heartbreaking images imaginable — sometimes playing on the news in our own spaces — and I have been unable to ignore the connection between those images and my duties here. This caused me incredible shame and guilt.”

“At some point — whatever the justification — you’re either advancing a policy that enables the mass starvation of children, or you’re not,” he added.

“I know that I did, in my small way, wittingly advance that policy,” the major wrote. “And I want to clarify that as the descendant of European Jews, I was raised in a particularly unforgiving moral environment when it came to the topic of bearing responsibility for ethnic cleansing.”

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10 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

This thread has been run over by bolverk’s CR lunacy. I don’t have energy to keep up. 

Trying to censor people from posting stuff you don't like by crying CR is bullshit and we all see you.

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8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 


I want to be clear that I don’t think this is the case for most protesters, but this particular woman…

98C843A2-8033-4857-BF31-E63C26CDD53A.jpeg

Dramatic bitch syndrome

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Trying to censor people from posting stuff you don't like by crying CR is bullshit and we all see you.

He is posting irrelevant shit about protests in Israel and about an Army officer resigning. Read the thread title CR dorks.

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2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Trying to censor people from posting stuff you don't like by crying CR is bullshit and we all see you.

Censor?  lol. I LOVE there are people here this misguided. It’s like a comedian in a Trump presidency. Bolverk appreciates your idiotic white knighting. 

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Another on bites the dust.

Harvard pro-Palestine encampment shutting down.

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Statement:

Quote

'The encampment has outlived the last day of classes, finals week, and move out weekend: a testament to the tenacity of our movement,' the group said.

'But as students moved out, police became the dominant presence on campus. Interim President [Alan] Garber was willing to go to extreme lengths to neutralize and evict our organizers in insidious ways, devoid of due process. 

'Campus is cleared out and the gates remain shut to the outside world. There is no liberation in isolation. In reassessing the strategic value of our encampment, we have come to the conclusion that this tactic has outlasted its utility with respect to our demands.'

 

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10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

image.gif.0b2438fcee333f4ed85ca01e85c8f021.gif

This videos are likely staged. Regardless I’ve seen enough obnoxious and abhorrent behavior from the camp fucking bolverk so desperately wants to support that it doesn’t matter if all of them are 100% legitimate.  All of these students can eat a bag of dicks. I hope I never interact with any of them ever. 

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6 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Trying to censor people from posting stuff you don't like by crying CR is bullshit and we all see you.

And Pam drags herself out of CR do defend it

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1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

This videos are likely staged. Regardless I’ve seen enough obnoxious and abhorrent behavior from the camp fucking bolverk so desperately wants to support that it doesn’t matter if all of them are 100% legitimate.  All of these students can eat a bag of dicks. I hope I never interact with any of them ever. 

NOW the random videos posted here are staged. So predictable. 

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  • bolverk changed the title to Worldwide Israel/Palestine War Protests Thread
6 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

NOW the random videos posted here are staged. So predictable. 

Well…..yeah. Are you disputing the authenticity of all, some or even one of the videos most here have commented on?  Ostensibly because you don’t like the content, and how it makes your side look?  Because that’s a take. Not your best effort. 

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3 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

NOW the random videos posted here are staged. So predictable. 

Well, you see, only anti-war people can be made fun of or allowed to look foolish. And don't you dare mention that Israelis or American military officers can also be against the war because that would somehow be too political. Being for the war, however, is totally not political.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Well, you see, only anti-war people can be made fun of or allowed to look foolish. And don't you dare mention that Israelis or American military officers can also be against the war because that would somehow be too political. Being for the war, however, is totally not political.

You think the message you and those you support are sending is merely one of anti-war. Bless your feeble mind. 

Edited by Rex Kramer
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3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Bolverk with the thread title change to accommodate all his dipshit videos. Awesome. 

Who was it that started posting stuff about protests in Sweden last week? Why didn't you have a problem with that? I mean, it would seem that protests occurring inside Israel are quite relevant to the topic.

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1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Who was it that started posting stuff about protests in Sweden last week? Why didn't you have a problem with that? I mean, it would seem that protests occurring inside Israel are quite relevant to the topic.

I don’t have a problem with changing the thread title. I just think it’s funny you change it about right when you get called for posting videos not quite germaine to the original title. Believe me, please carry on what you’re doing. 

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2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

If Rex doesn't have a therapist with whom to discuss his issues with how this board is run and who is allowed to post what; well, he should. 

Why would I care how this board is run?  It’s not mine, it’s a fucking message board, and I think it’s run fine. 

I think there are far too many loon lefties here that grossly overestimate that their views are in the mainstream of the country, the state and even of UT alumni. 

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14 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Are you disputing the authenticity of all, some or even one of the videos most here have commented on?  Ostensibly because you don’t like the content, and how it makes your side look?  

Me? No. That is quite literally what you are doing regarding the videos above though.

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2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Why would I care how this board is run?  It’s not mine, it’s a fucking message board, and I think it’s run fine. 

I think there are far too many loon lefties here that grossly overestimate that their views are in the mainstream of the country, the state and even of UT alumni. 

image.png.23c0f71afea35a219873f9174c8bbcdf.png

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3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t have a problem with changing the thread title. I just think it’s funny you change it about right when you get called for posting videos not quite germaine to the original title. Believe me, please carry on what you’re doing. 

There's been plenty of previous discussion about anti-Palestine counterprotesters. How is my including clips of counterprotesters off-topic? How is my including an article about a US Army officer resigning in protest not germane to a discussion about protests? 

Are you saying that a discussion about Israelis protesting the war that they are directly involved in isn't relevant?

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3 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Me? No. That is quite literally what you are doing regarding the videos above though.

I only watched the girl with Jew and Israel and Star of David on her shirt. That was the most staged thing I’ve ever seen. Didn’t watch the rest. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I only watched the girl with Jew and Israel and Star of David on her shirt. That was the most staged thing I’ve ever seen. Didn’t watch the rest. 

Yes, she and her husband staged it, and they didn't get the reaction they were hoping for.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jew-shirt-lady-at-yale-pro-palestine-protest

image.png.6b52b85de99e1fe4a1d4f3478ccf52a6.png

Edited by bolverk
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20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

There's been plenty of previous discussion about anti-Palestine counterprotesters. How is my including clips of counterprotesters off-topic? How is my including an article about a US Army officer resigning in protest not germane to a discussion about protests? 

Are you saying that a discussion about Israelis protesting the war that they are directly involved in isn't relevant?

Dude what the fuck is wrong with you?  This was originally the nationwide college campus protest thread, was it not?  I don’t care you changed the title. 

15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Yes, she and her husband staged it, and they didn't get the reaction they were hoping for.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jew-shirt-lady-at-yale-pro-palestine-protest

image.png.6b52b85de99e1fe4a1d4f3478ccf52a6.png

That is 100% staged. I’m not gonna help you out if you're truly that dense. 

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2 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Dude what the fuck is wrong with you?  This was originally the nationwide college campus protest thread, was it not?  I don’t care you changed the title. 

That is 100% staged. I’m not gonna help you out if you're truly that dense. 

Y'all are the ones who started posting about protests taking place off college campuses and in Europe. Now you complain when I change the thread title to accommodate those broader discussions? It's also hilarious that you suddenly show a concern about whether something on video has been staged.

 

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

But he doesn’t have a side.  He just wants there to be peace. 

I've stated my positions clearly.

  1. Hamas are terrorist assholes and should be defeated, but Israel has gone way too far by causing far too many deaths and far too much destruction. That's a widely shared belief, and there's nothing radical about it. Just about every single nation or international organization has said as much, and war crimes are currently being investigated.
  2. There should be a ceasefire to allow more aid to ease the suffering of the Palestinians as the threat of widespread famine looms and also to allow continued negotiations over the release of the 130-something innocent Israeli hostages and the 1000s of innocent Palestinian hostages detainees.
  3. Both Israelis AND Palestinians have the right to self-determination, including having their own fully autonomous, independent nations that are free from outside interference. The boundaries between the two should be fixed at the internationally recognized 1967 borders. 
  4. The protests AND the counterprotests are mostly unproductive clown shows. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings when "your side" is shown to be full of idiots, too. The one exception is the protesting going on inside Israel. Those protests actually matter because they involve hostage families and others who could legitimately influence what's going on with the war.

That's what I want. What about you? What do you want?

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

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I'm with you on this one.

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5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Y'all are the ones who started posting about protests taking place off college campuses and in Europe. Now you complain when I change the thread title to accommodate those broader discussions? It's also hilarious that you suddenly show a concern about whether something on video has been staged.

This is the most Derka thing I've read since the permabannination

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3 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

a0ca2af2-a1d7-4590-bbea-4d63e6410793_text.gif.9bbcbe615c73011f46acb3a4cd02d063.gif

Okay, so we're just not talking about the weird coincidence that you guys both posted two consecutive photos of a student and an actor...and the student basically looks like a younger John Turturro?  

What in the fuck with this simulation?  

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47 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Both Israelis AND Palestinians have the right to self-determination, including having their own fully autonomous, independent nations that are free from outside interference. The boundaries between the two should be fixed at the internationally recognized 1967 borders. 

They do?  Even though one side has committed non-stop terrorism and atrocities against the other since ‘67 and really before that, regardless of who was in charge?  It is really hard to free “Palestine” of interference when they’re constantly interfering via terror attacks. 

47 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The protests AND the counterprotests are mostly unproductive clown shows. I'm sorry it hurts your feelings when "your side" is shown to be full of idiots, too. The one exception is the protesting going on inside Israel. Those protests actually matter because they involve hostage families and others who could legitimately influence what's going on with the war.

While I agree that anyone that engages is generally a clown, the protestors INITIATED the clown show. Just as Hamas initiated all of this shit. Showing videos on both sides doesn’t hurt my feelings; I just think you’re so desperate for actors that are bad on the Israeli side, or noble on the Palestinian side, that you totally ignore all of the above and are both sides-ing the fuck out of this, and aimlessly so.  I don’t know about protests going on inside Israel. I suspect you’re latching on to anything that supports Israel ceasing its actions, and you’re totally misguided in the process. 

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I hate to break up the slap fight, but I'll ask both of you (IE @Rex Kramer and @bolverk) what is your solution.

I think we can all agree that shit is borked in the that area of the world.  So, what are your individual solutions?  Knowing, of course, none of us, Surly posters, actually have the ability to implement them.  What's your "perfect world" solution?

Just curious but betting they're more similar than not.

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5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I hate to break up the slap fight, but I'll ask both of you (IE @Rex Kramer and @bolverk) what is your solution.

I think we can all agree that shit is borked in the that area of the world.  So, what are your individual solutions?  Knowing, of course, none of us, Surly posters, actually have the ability to implement them.  What's your "perfect world" solution?

Just curious but betting they're more similar than not.

Don’t know. It’s tragic what’s happening to innocent Palestinians. But I’m not in position to judge what Israel is doing. I do think there’s a serious element of anti-Israeli propaganda duping people and it’s pervasive on this entire board. In a perfect world Israel would:

1) move civilians to some controlled area, even within its own borders, that is heavily guarded / armed and allows humanitarian aid unfettered. Probably logistically impossible and prohibitively expensive but it has got to be better than the reported narrative. 

2) proceed with rooting out all these people. Every Hamas member should die. If Fatah comes back in and pulls the same shit, they all need to die. They can handle Hezbollah within invading southern Lebanon given their activities are launched from another country.

3) Israel must stay very very involved and perhaps the world will perceive it to be oppressively so, in transferring autonomy onto the Palestinians like this’d be a multi-decade process.

If this seems simplistic or impossible, it’s probably because it very much is so. I don’t know the answer, but it absolutely cannot revert to status quo with either any successive element of Hamas governing, and likely Fatah governing. 

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6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Don’t know. It’s tragic what’s happening to innocent Palestinians. But I’m not in position to judge what Israel is doing. I do think there’s a serious element of anti-Israeli propaganda duping people and it’s pervasive on this entire board. In a perfect world Israel would:

1) move civilians to some controlled area, even within its own borders, that is heavily guarded / armed and allows humanitarian aid unfettered. Probably logistically impossible and prohibitively expensive but it has got to be better than the reported narrative. 

2) proceed with rooting out all these people. Every Hamas member should die. If Fatah comes back in and pulls the same shit, they all need to die. They can handle Hezbollah within invading southern Lebanon given their activities are launched from another country.

3) Israel must stay very very involved and perhaps the world will perceive it to be oppressively so, in transferring autonomy onto the Palestinians like this’d be a multi-decade process.

If this seems simplistic or impossible, it’s probably because it very much is so. I don’t know the answer, but it absolutely cannot revert to status quo with either any successive element of Hamas governing, and likely Fatah governing. 

Well, that is actually way different than I thought.  I don't believe you can kill your way to peace when fanaticism is at play... which it is at the extremes on both sides.  All you'll do is create deeper and deeper hate.

I'm a two-state solution proponent.  Although obviously they'd need to figure out the borders, which even aside from the illegal West Bank settlements, is difficult since both sides lay claim to Jerusalem.  Maybe Jerusalem could be governed by an independent body, like the UN.  Just spit balling.

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33 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I hate to break up the slap fight, but I'll ask both of you (IE @Rex Kramer and @bolverk) what is your solution.

I think we can all agree that shit is borked in the that area of the world.  So, what are your individual solutions?  Knowing, of course, none of us, Surly posters, actually have the ability to implement them.  What's your "perfect world" solution?

Just curious but betting they're more similar than not.

Uh, for many many decades...the smartest geopolitical minds have tried to find a solution to the Middle East Dilemma.  And you think Rex and Bolverk are gonna suddenly solve it during the off-season?  I swear to christ with this fucking simulation, let me guess?........your real life job is a Mediator and you are friends with Frank Stallone?  What in the fucking fuck people?  This is why we can't have nice things.  

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33 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Uh, for many many decades...the smartest geopolitical minds have tried to find a solution to the Middle East Dilemma.  And you think Rex and Bolverk are gonna suddenly solve it during the off-season?  I swear to christ with this fucking simulation, let me guess?........your real life job is a Mediator and you are friends with Frank Stallone?  What in the fucking fuck people?  This is why we can't have nice things.  

Mozart composed his first piece of published music at age 5, and by his teen years, he had already written several concertos, sonatas, operas and symphonies. Picasso learned how to draw before he could talk. At 12, Pascal independently and without the use of math books discovered nearly all the geometric proofs of Euclid. So why not? I say give Rex and Bolverk a chance.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Well, that is actually way different than I thought.  I don't believe you can kill your way to peace when fanaticism is at play... which it is at the extremes on both sides.  All you'll do is create deeper and deeper hate.

I'm a two-state solution proponent.  Although obviously they'd need to figure out the borders, which even aside from the illegal West Bank settlements, is difficult since both sides lay claim to Jerusalem.  Maybe Jerusalem could be governed by an independent body, like the UN.  Just spit balling.

The hate will exist from the Palestinians regardless. Israel absolutely must remain aggressive with rooting out Hamas. They must kill them all, or there is no chance at peace. I have a hard time believing this is disputed. 

I’d be a 2-state supporter if and only if they start acting like a nation with competent administration, policing their own extremists instead of placing them at the tip of the spear, etc. This is why it’ll take years and possibly a generation. Israel won’t permit the fucking UN to govern Jerusalem. They’re in control, and they’re not going backwards nor should they. 

Edited by Rex Kramer
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1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

I hate to break up the slap fight, but I'll ask both of you (IE @Rex Kramer and @bolverk) what is your solution.

I think we can all agree that shit is borked in the that area of the world.  So, what are your individual solutions?  Knowing, of course, none of us, Surly posters, actually have the ability to implement them.  What's your "perfect world" solution?

Just curious but betting they're more similar than not.

It's probably not the right discussion for this since it concerns policy. Plus, we've discussed several possible solutions in the CR thread.

To keep it brief:

  1. The Israelis and the Palestinians must both relinquish any claim to land beyond the 1967 borders and recognize each other's right to exist.
  2. Go back to the idea in the original mandate: make Jerusalem an international city.
  3. International peacekeeping force and administration of Palestine for a period of time as it transitions to independence and builds up institutions. I firmly disagree with Israeli involvement in this effort.
  4. All homes and infrastructure in the illegal settlements remain in place but handed over unmarred to the Palestinian State and refugees. 
  5. I'd likely keep some sort of peacekeeping presence all along the borders separating the two nations for quite some time.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Mozart composed his first piece of published music at age 5, and by his teen years, he had already written several concertos, sonatas, operas and symphonies. Picasso learned how to draw before he could talk. At 12, Pascal independently and without the use of math books discovered nearly all the geometric proofs of Euclid. So why not? I say give Rex and Bolverk a chance.

Your "Pawn Stars:  2-State Solution" spinoff idea sounds intriguing.  

"We'd like to get Mozart, Picasso, and Pascal involved in developing a peace solution in the Middle East"

-Uh, best I can do is Rex and Bolverk.  And maybe this tea set.  

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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Mozart composed his first piece of published music at age 5, and by his teen years, he had already written several concertos, sonatas, operas and symphonies. Picasso learned how to draw before he could talk. At 12, Pascal independently and without the use of math books discovered nearly all the geometric proofs of Euclid. So why not? I say give Rex and Bolverk a chance.

Hey a Frank Stallone reference. Shocker. People try and over complicate Israel. It’s not as complicated as it needs to be. The X factor is Palestinians always revert to having savages as leaders. There’ll never by any peace with that factor in place. 

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