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Posted
On 5/18/2025 at 9:04 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

It’s a good draft. Of course Glagg could be a generational player. Harper would be the first pick on almost every other draft. A lot of people think he’s a Cade Cunningham level prospect 

Tre and Fears should also be really good pros. 
 

The top 6 should a really good player. Unfortunately, the Rockets are not in top 6. 

If SA thinks Harper is going to be anywhere close to Cade then they'd be idiots to trade him and Castle for Giannis.  That's a good to great roster over the next 10 years and they'd have Castle and Harper on rookie deals.

Posted
32 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

If SA thinks Harper is going to be anywhere close to Cade then they'd be idiots to trade him and Castle for Giannis.  That's a good to great roster over the next 10 years and they'd have Castle and Harper on rookie deals.

Yeah the talking heads seem to think the second pick + the Spurs extra picks is enough tor Giannis. I just don’t see it. The Bucks need both and the picks to start over.

What annoys me is the national media believes Castle and Amen are equal players. Uh, no. 

Posted
14 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Yeah the talking heads seem to think the second pick + the Spurs extra picks is enough tor Giannis. I just don’t see it. The Bucks need both and the picks to start over.

What annoys me is the national media believes Castle and Amen are equal players. Uh, no. 

The talking heads are being ridiculous.  They're wanting Castle.  

Posted
5 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

TMac was one of my favorite players, but I'd definitely tap the brakes on saying they were neck and neck. TMac was more talented than Kobe, but Kobe was miles ahead when it came to mentality, work ethic, and leadership.  That was always the biggest separating factor, IMO.  

Kobe was also a much better defender 

Posted

I stopped paying attention to McGrady after he left Orlando.

How come it never worked out with him and Yao Ming. Did he already have some negative-impacting injuries that first year or two?

Posted
2 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Yeah the talking heads seem to think the second pick + the Spurs extra picks is enough tor Giannis. I just don’t see it. The Bucks need both and the picks to start over.

What annoys me is the national media believes Castle and Amen are equal players. Uh, no. 

You're right, Castle is better

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Posted
56 minutes ago, ATXbronco said:

I stopped paying attention to McGrady after he left Orlando.

How come it never worked out with him and Yao Ming. Did he already have some negative-impacting injuries that first year or two?

You could ask the same question of yao ming. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, ATXbronco said:

I stopped paying attention to McGrady after he left Orlando.

How come it never worked out with him and Yao Ming. Did he already have some negative-impacting injuries that first year or two?

Yao kept getting hurt. The team was excellent when they both played. They were good even when Yao was hurt. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Kobe was also a much better defender 

TMac was an all league defender in TOR.   Once he became an offensive focal point his defense took a back seat.

Posted
1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Yao kept getting hurt. The team was excellent when they both played. They were good even when Yao was hurt. 

Damn, and let me guess... when Yao was healthy, TMAC started breaking down?

thanks

Posted
19 hours ago, d2o said:

TMac was an all league defender in TOR.   Once he became an offensive focal point his defense took a back seat.

and yet never made a single all nba defensive team

Posted
On 5/20/2025 at 3:40 PM, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Sounds like something Ryan Clark would say.  
 

im open to a wager that says Flagg is closer to pippen than lbj as far as stats.  Must adjust for pace 

It's crazy because yes, SOME may overhype him for being  white...but his metrics, his stats, his profile, all put him in the top 3-5 prospected coming out of college in the last 15-20 years or so.

He could flame out, or just top out as an All Star level player(and that would be fucking great BTW), but he's profile is that of a potential Franchise player if not more.

On 5/21/2025 at 9:34 AM, Underdog said:

Wasn’t there reports from Team USA workouts that Flagg more than held his own against NBA players? 

Not just reports...video and comments from Team USA players that Flagg was the truth.

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Posted
On 5/23/2025 at 12:43 PM, Drew said:

It's crazy because yes, SOME may overhype him for being  white...but his metrics, his stats, his profile, all put him in the top 3-5 prospected coming out of college in the last 15-20 years or so.

He could flame out, or just top out as an All Star level player(and that would be fucking great BTW), but he's profile is that of a potential Franchise player if not more.

Not just reports...video and comments from Team USA players that Flagg was the truth.

Skip to 1:42.  It’s just a scrimmage but he certainly didn’t look 17 out there (which he was). 

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Posted

I think the problem with projecting Flagg is that people recognize his talent and see that he’s head and shoulders above the people in this draft class. He literally does everything well except being the focal point/main ball-handler of an offense and he’s still not terrible at that. He’s incredibly well-rounded, team-oriented, and is instant plug and play. There is no comparison for what he is at his age, thus it’s hard to pigeonhole him into another player comparison. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kermit said:

I think the problem with projecting Flagg is that people recognize his talent and see that he’s head and shoulders above the people in this draft class. He literally does everything well except being the focal point/main ball-handler of an offense and he’s still not terrible at that. He’s incredibly well-rounded, team-oriented, and is instant plug and play. There is no comparison for what he is at his age, thus it’s hard to pigeonhole him into another player comparison. 

I think he probably has the highest floor since LeBron, FWIW, or maybe AD.  I put him ahead of Wemby because Oden/Embiid/Sampson.   The Kirilenko comparisons aren’t wrong but if he is a better version of AK47 he’s a perennial all star.  
 

I see him as 24-8-6 for a career that also has him as a 1st/2nd team perennial all defense player.  
 

He has a frame that can get pretty big.  Dude’s shoulders are broad.  

Posted
3 hours ago, Kermit said:

I think the problem with projecting Flagg is that people recognize his talent and see that he’s head and shoulders above the people in this draft class. He literally does everything well except being the focal point/main ball-handler of an offense and he’s still not terrible at that. He’s incredibly well-rounded, team-oriented, and is instant plug and play. There is no comparison for what he is at his age, thus it’s hard to pigeonhole him into another player comparison. 

 

IMG_3208.jpeg

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Posted
1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

 I put him ahead of Wemby because Oden/Embiid/Sampson.

Um. Wemby was 1st team all-defense as a rookie. 

You mean like career-wise floor?

Posted
5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Um. Wemby was 1st team all-defense as a rookie. 

You mean like career-wise floor?

I believe he’s referring to his risk of injuries limiting his ceiling as an all-time great.

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Posted
Just now, Kermit said:

I believe he’s referring to his risk of injuries limiting his ceiling as an all-time great.

But he said "floor".

Posted
10 minutes ago, Derka said:

 

IMG_3208.jpeg

Honestly, not a bad comparison until you realize that Flagg is three years younger than grant when he came into the league. They have very similar measurements, but a different skill set. Man, Grant was fucking awesome pre-Orlando.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Derka said:

giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe91hr96hfmlajalusbk6m

 

16 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Um. Wemby was 1st team all-defense as a rookie. 

You mean like career-wise floor?

 

9 minutes ago, Kermit said:

I believe he’s referring to his risk of injuries limiting his ceiling as an all-time great.

Exactly.  Wemby’s floor is a better version of Ralph Sampson or Bill Walton’s NBA career  depending on how long he lasts. Wemby’s ceiling is above LeBron, imo.  
 

Tall dudes (>7’ 0”) have an inherent risk of breaking down.  

Edited by A-Tex Devil
Posted
14 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

 

 

Exactly.  Wemby’s floor is a better version of Ralph Sampson or Bill Walton’s NBA career  depending on how long he lasts. Wemby’s ceiling is above LeBron, imo.  
 

Tall dudes (>7’ 0”) have an inherent risk of breaking down.  

I'm huge on Flagg I'm just not sure his "floor" is as good as what Wemby has already done. 

Posted
On 5/25/2025 at 10:23 PM, Derka said:

 

IMG_3208.jpeg

Doesn't have the dibble drive game of Hill nor the ability to turn the corner on a defender, which was elite.  Probably a little better shooter from distance than Hill.  How tall is he on the real?  I know he's listed at 6'9".  He really reminds me of Lamar Odom except without all the knuckleheadness.  And a basketball savvy Odom would have been a problem.  

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Posted

i can see lamar odom, but without the flair. cooper seems like he was made in a lab, whereas odom was just artistry and expression. 

i compare him to hill because of his size, his nba readiness, and his versatility. it’s not a perfect like for like comp, but he’s also 2-3 years younger than hill was when he entered the league. hill was one of the 5-7 best players in the league right away. flagg won’t be like that right away, but by the time he’s 21-22? maybe he’s in that conversation.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Derka said:

i can see lamar odom, but without the flair. cooper seems like he was made in a lab, whereas odom was just artistry and expression. 

i compare him to hill because of his size, his nba readiness, and his versatility. it’s not a perfect like for like comp, but he’s also 2-3 years younger than hill was when he entered the league. hill was one of the 5-7 best players in the league right away. flagg won’t be like that right away, but by the time he’s 21-22? maybe he’s in that conversation.

I know this is gonna seem like a joke but he’s a rich man’s Keith van horn.   
 

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I know this is gonna seem like a joke but he’s a rich man’s Keith van horn.   
 

 

What would a poor man’s Keith Van Horn look like?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kermit said:

What would a poor man’s Keith Van Horn look like?

Malik Rose.  I kid.  It's not a terrible comp but I avoided because I think Flagg is a little better athlete but KVH was awesome in college.  

 

Edited by Patrick Bateman
Posted
34 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Doesn't have the dibble drive game of Hill nor the ability to turn the corner on a defender, which was elite.  Probably a little better shooter from distance than Hill.  How tall is he on the real?  I know he's listed at 6'9".  He really reminds me of Lamar Odom except without all the knuckleheadness.  And a basketball savvy Odom would have been a problem.  

Y'all seriously got to quit it with this shit. Lamar Odom? Really? 

He's LeBron 2.0. 

Not saying he's going to be LeBron but this kid is different and no one seems to understand it. 

I can't wait for him to get on the court and blow everyone away. 

Posted

alright i’m finna top all of the “weird” comparisons in this bitch- he’s a mix of cade cunningham and pascal siakam.

Posted
4 hours ago, Derka said:

alright i’m finna top all of the “weird” comparisons in this bitch- he’s a mix of cade cunningham and pascal siakam.

He's more of a mix of Keith Van Horn and Christian Laetner 

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Posted
9 hours ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I know this is gonna seem like a joke but he’s a rich man’s Keith van horn.   
 

 

A truly amazing backhanded compliment. Are you my mother-in-law?

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Posted
Doesn't have the dibble drive game of Hill nor the ability to turn the corner on a defender, which was elite.  Probably a little better shooter from distance than Hill.  How tall is he on the real?  I know he's listed at 6'9".  He really reminds me of Lamar Odom except without all the knuckleheadness.  And a basketball savvy Odom would have been a problem.  

9716656d477b3e6bd448562172a79c03.png
Posted

Not sure if this is the right thread, but ESPN has an article titled, "Potential Trade Offers for top 2025 Pick Cooper Flagg."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45425353/potential-trades-top-2025-nba-draft-pick-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

Spoilered below.  IMO, there is no way you trade that pick.  You draft Flagg and roll with the punches.  Kind of a silly article, but someone needs to fill the bits and bytes of ESPN.com.

Spoiler

We know the Dallas Mavericks have said they plan to select Duke forward Cooper Flagg in the 2025 NBA draft on June 25 and will not entertain the possibility of trading away the No. 1 pick for a proven superstar.

But what if a trade offer landed on the desks of Mavericks general manager Nico Harrison and team governor Patrick Dumont that at least forced the organization to briefly consider the option ... before saying no?

With less than a month before the two-day draft (both nights at 8 ET on ABC and ESPN), we are examining some of the possibilities for Flagg's future in the pros.

Before landing the draft's top spot in the lottery, Dallas was already labeled as a team that could contend in the Western Conference next season but only if it had a healthy roster. The addition of the No. 1 pick -- a first-year talent who has been the uncontested top choice for the past year -- has only heightened that.

Flagg would join a Mavericks team that has 13 players under contract from this past season's roster, including Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving, who has a player option. Irving is probably going to sit out an extended period of time as he recovers from a torn left ACL sustained in March.

Dallas has flexibility to make a trade -- if one materializes. Besides the top pick in June ...

-- The Mavericks have the Los Angeles Lakers' unprotected first in 2029 and the ability to trade their own first in either 2031 or 2032. They also have 10 players earning between $2 million and $16 million, including Klay Thompson, P.J. Washington and Daniel Gafford.

-- Flagg could be entering as a star on a Mavericks roster that's brimming with talented wings, but a franchise that is $17 million over the luxury tax and over both aprons. The Mavericks also have three tradeable first-round picks and two seconds.

-- There is the question of whether ownership would approve trading a No. 1 pick such as Flagg for Milwaukee's Giannis Antetokounmpo and the two years left on his contract.

We asked our NBA insiders (Bobby Marks, Zach Kram, Kevin Pelton and Andre Snellings) to come up with potential Flagg trades for the Mavericks' top pick, and the right to draft Flagg. Let's dig into the deals, including starting with how the situation in Dallas is looking before the draft.

How keeping No. 1 pick plays into Mavs' future

On May 12, minutes after the Mavericks won the right to select Flagg, there was speculation from team executives ESPN spoke to on whether the pick would be in play if a trade materialized.

Why wouldn't it considering Harrison's aggressive nature in business pursuits?

Since taking over basketball operations in June 2021, Harrison has made 16 trades and continually searched for the right combination of players to win a championship. None more evident than swapping out Luka Doncic for Davis this past February. The trade has the Mavericks in a win-now mode considering Davis has three years left on his contract.

But as sources confirmed to ESPN, the Mavericks plan to select Flagg and will not entertain the possibility of trading away the pick for a proven superstar.

While there is a temptation, especially if a player such as Antetokounmpo were available in a trade, the approach by Dallas is smart from a roster-building standpoint.

Financially, Flagg's four-year rookie contract is comparable to a free agent signing the non-tax midlevel exception. His $13.8 million salary in Year 1 is below the average player salary.

With Davis and Irving on the roster next season, swapping out Flagg's salary for a player earning more than $50 million makes little sense.

And then there is the realization that first-round picks do not change teams after their original contract expires. The Mavericks could have Flagg under contract for the next four seasons and an additional five. -- Marks


Offer No. 1: Spurs move up to build frontcourt of the future

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Dallas Mavericks get: 2025 No. 2 pick, 2025 No. 14 pick, 2027 Atlanta Hawks' first-rounder, return of swap rights to Mavericks' 2030 first-rounder

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San Antonio Spurs get: 2025 No. 1 pick

The ultimate goal of this trade is to pair Flagg and Victor Wembanyama, the most-hyped No. 1 pick of the decade. They would be Tim Duncan and David Robinson for a new generation. And although the Spurs just missed out on winning the lottery, they have the assets that might entice Dallas to swap No. 1 for No. 2.

What should it cost to move up at the top of the draft? In 2017, the Philadelphia 76ers needed to send only a single future first-rounder to Boston to jump from No. 3 to No. 1. But that's not an especially useful model here, because then-Celtics GM Danny Ainge didn't view Markelle Fultz, the consensus top prospect in 2017, as favorably as everyone views Flagg this year.

So let's recreate an older draft trade to build the Spurs' offer.

 

Under one potential trade scenario, the San Antonio Spurs would trade with the Dallas Mavericks and could pair Victor Wembanyama, above, with Cooper Flagg. Petre Thomas-Imagn Images

In 1993, the Warriors sent three future firsts to the Orlando Magic to facilitate a swap of No. 3 pick Penny Hardaway (Memphis) for No. 1 pick Chris Webber (Michigan). That sounds about right here, with Flagg filling in for Webber -- who, like Flagg, was a mega-prospect coming off a standout college career -- and Dylan Harper filling in for Hardaway as a big, dynamic guard.

To bridge the gap between the prospects, San Antonio would send three draft assets to help Dallas replenish its rather barren draft hoard. The Mavericks would add a late lottery pick in the 2025 draft, a potentially attractive unprotected Hawks pick in 2027 and a return of their own 2030 swap rights, which they'd initially sent to San Antonio in the three-team sign-and-trade deal that brought Grant Williams to Dallas.

This trade would make a ton of sense for San Antonio, which could establish its frontcourt of the future -- and, perhaps, the frontcourt that would dominate the NBA for the foreseeable future -- while not losing any of its own future draft selections. And as long as the Mavericks like Harper (or Ace Bailey, or VJ Edgecombe, or any other options at No. 2) anywhere close to as much as they like Flagg, this swap would also make a ton of sense for them. -- Kram


Offer No. 2: Cavs form new star trio in Flagg, Mobley and Garland

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Dallas Mavericks get: Guard Donovan Mitchell, 2031 first-round pick (via Lakers), 2028 first-round swap (via Lakers), 2030 first-round swap (via Lakers)

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Cleveland Cavaliers get: 2025 No. 1 pick, guards Jevon Carter and Gabe Vincent, forwards Maxi Kleber and P.J. Washington, center Daniel Gafford

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Los Angeles Lakers get: Center Jarrett Allen

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Chicago Bulls get: Forwards Dalton Knecht and Caleb Martin, 2026 second-round pick (via Cavaliers), 2027 second-round pick (via Nuggets), 2028 second-round pick (via Cavaliers)

To quote Batman and George Costanza, "You want to get nuts? Come on, let's get nuts." Would the Cavaliers actually break up a team that posted the NBA's second-best record (64-18) in pursuit of Flagg? Surely not, but if Cleveland believed that the loss to the Indiana Pacers exposed fatal flaws and if the Cavaliers felt recentering the roster around 23-year-old Evan Mobley was the right response, this move could help everyone involved.

For the Mavericks, Mitchell is a better fit than Antetokounmpo, who would crowd a frontcourt limited on shooting. Mitchell could start next season at point guard in place of Irving, then slide to the 2 when Irving returns. Dallas also comes out of this trade with the Lakers' draft assets the team failed to collect in the Doncic deal, continuing to bet against how Doncic will age.

2025 NBA draft

Cleveland builds a new trio of stars with Flagg, Mobley and Darius Garland, none of them older than age 25. For now, the Cavaliers should be able to remain competitive in the East thanks to depth and defense. A frontcourt of Flagg, Mobley and either Gafford or Washington would be one of the NBA's best on defense, while sliding Max Strus to guard would give Cleveland more size in the backcourt.

Because this trade must be completed by June 30 before Mitchell's extension kicks in and his salary jumps from $35.4 million to $46.4 million to avoid triggering a hard cap for the Mavericks at the first apron, the Cavaliers can't actually save much on their 2025-26 luxury tax bill. But three of the contracts they're taking back are expiring, meaning massive savings in 2026-27. And those expiring pacts should be movable (or stretchable) in future deals using Cleveland's remaining first-round assets.

The Lakers get their long-desired rim-running center in Allen, undoubtedly the best big man available to them in terms of current value. Getting Allen costs them not only the pick, swap and Knecht (what they tried to send the Charlotte Hornets for Mark Williams), but also a second swap. If the Lakers can build around Allen and Doncic like they hope, that swap shouldn't convey anyway.

Lastly, the Bulls are needed as a fourth team to ensure none of the other three teams adds salary in this deal, which would hard cap them at the lower luxury tax apron. Chicago takes on the remainder of Martin's contract in exchange for adding Knecht and all of the Cavaliers' tradeable second-round picks. -- Pelton


Offer No. 3: Mavs pick up Booker and elite big-man depth

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Dallas Mavericks get: Devin Booker, 2025 first-rounder (No. 29), 2028 first-rounder (least favorable of own, Knicks and Wizards), 2029 first-round pick swap (least favorable of Cavs, Timberwolves and Jazz)

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Phoenix Suns get: 2025 No. 1 pick, Klay Thompson, P.J. Washington, Naji Marshall and Caleb Martin

The premise of this offer -- trading a potential NBA megastar -- is to underscore the Mavericks' need to improve their roster now. The Doncic-for-Davis trade put the Mavericks in win-now mode anyhow, with a timeline tied around Davis, 32, and Irving, 33, so it would behoove them to trade the future for the now. With those guidelines in place, trading for Booker would make a lot of sense.

The Mavericks, as constructed, have elite big-man depth and a perennial All-Star point guard in Irving but could use another dynamic perimeter presence on the wing. Dallas will need an elite playmaker who can lead the team while Irving is out, but play next to him when he returns.

Enter Booker, who was a first-team All-NBA shooting guard in 2021-22, and is squarely in his prime at 28 years old. A healthy core of Davis, Irving and Booker would be able to contend for championships immediately, and Booker would remain a centerpiece even as Davis and Irving start to age out of their primes. Add on that Dallas also gets some draft considerations in this deal.

For the Suns, this offseason has the feel of a franchise that's ready to change everything and rebuild. Their attempt to win with a team featuring three pure scorers without enough supporting infrastructure didn't yield dividends, their salary cap situation is untenable and they have already traded away several future draft assets.

It has been widely rumored that Phoenix will trade Kevin Durant this offseason as well, and if the Suns were to do that deal before this one, they might have more assets to sweeten the offer for Flagg. As is, getting Flagg's potential to be their franchise cornerstone for the next generation would be amazing value, even dealing Booker and all of the draft considerations they could move.

In the hypothetical scenario in which Durant is moved before the draft, the Suns being able to include potential assets from such a deal would most likely allow them to make a more competitive offer than what is being suggested here. -- Snellings

 

play


And the one trade that is hard to pass on ...

Marks picks most realistic of the trades and explains why or why not this could be feasible:

The Mitchell and Booker trades make the most sense if the Mavericks were operating on a two-to-three-year timeline that Harrison described after trading for Davis. But, that same timeline expanded an extra eight years when Dallas won the draft lottery and the right to draft an impactful defender and versatile talent in Flagg.

Trading out of the first pick is certainly a risk considering Flagg's upside and his fit alongside Davis. But the Mavs moving back one slot to No. 2 to draft Harper and picking up three additional draft assets, including another first in this year's lottery, is hard to pass.

Remember, the Celtics traded the No. 1 pick to Philadelphia in the 2017 draft, and they would go on to select future six-time All-Star Jayson Tatum two slots later.

More importantly, the two unprotected firsts from Atlanta (2027) and the Lakers (2029) put the Mavericks in the front of the line if a player such as Antetokounmpo or Durant becomes available.

 

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