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On 12/1/2023 at 6:56 PM, Willfully Horn said:

While I don’t doubt that, I still am unsure of how reliable dci-p is. They are a branch of a terrorist government, after all.

Relevant to the recent exchange.

 

 

Also longer clip worth a listen over your cup of coffee.

 

 

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14 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Since people are comparing Hamas to the Israeli military, what are the numbers of civilian casualties caused by each one? 

All of the civilian casualties (Israeli and Gazan) are caused by Hamas. Hamas is responsible for all of them, every one. 

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8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Relevant to the recent exchange.

 

 

Also longer clip worth a listen over your cup of coffee.

 

 

What conclusions did you come to, about Paul, the dci, the reported prison rape of a teenage boy, and the IDF confiscating dci’s computers and then labeling the org a terrorist group?

Because I still don’t know who to believe. And I am skeptical of right wing actors, including Bibi. However, I have a lot of faith in  your average bubbeh.

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8 hours ago, statsman said:

All of the civilian casualties (Israeli and Gazan) are caused by Hamas. Hamas is responsible for all of them, every one. 

This is the type of thing people who are about to commit genocide often say about their targets and if you really believe it you’d be giving Israel moral permission to slaughter millions of people.

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If Israel really wanted to commit genocide, it would have been accomplished. Israel doesn’t want to commit genocide. It wants to eradicate Hamas, who has a strategy of hiding among the civilians it claims to represent and govern, and restricting the ability of civilians to relocate. 
 
This is ugly, and unfair to innocent civilians. Unfair is not unjust. Unjust would be not allowing Israel to go after the Hamas forces that attacked their people so cruelly and wantonly. 

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18 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Fair enough.  I am happy to discuss other countries as well (hello Native Americans), but I think part of the distinction that confuses people, including myself, is the inclusion of the Jewish faith as a race. I have always found that bizarre, as no other modern religion that I’m aware of gets included this way. 
 

Look, it’s clear there are huge opinions on this whole thing. I try and look at it from a rational perspective as best I can, as I have no real dog in this fight, apart from general human empathy and also being a good student of history.  Trying to learn and trying to find out what paths we can take to deescalation and maybe peace. 

So far, I find it unlikely there is a solution. 
 

 

Jews aren’t a race for sure, as a survey of Jews in Israel and outside will reveal. The impetus to treat them as a race in our sense came from the (literal) Nazis who sought scientific and genetic justification for supposed Jewish inferiority and so I’d be cautious of referring to them as a race in the modern sense. 
 

I think it’s accurate to refer to a Jewish culture or nation or “people” with religious customs being a significant cultural marker but not necessary, there are secular and even atheist Jews. It is unique but then again the Jewish experience is unique as a people maintaining an identity formed in the Bronze Age and maintained and further shaped during a forced diaspora of millennia. 

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3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

It is someone else’s fault I am committing genocide. Also, I’m not committing genocide because I could have killed more. 

Israel is not committing genocide. Israel knows what genocide is. Israel has been viciously attacked and is defending itself against similar future attacks (that have been promised). 
 
Hamas is the group that has expressed a desire for genocide and taken such actions. 

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1 hour ago, statsman said:

If Israel really wanted to commit genocide, it would have been accomplished. Israel doesn’t want to commit genocide. It wants to eradicate Hamas, who has a strategy of hiding among the civilians it claims to represent and govern, and restricting the ability of civilians to relocate. 
 
This is ugly, and unfair to innocent civilians. Unfair is not unjust. Unjust would be not allowing Israel to go after the Hamas forces that attacked their people so cruelly and wantonly. 

This is a dangerous, and frankly pretty naive, assumption to make. I think it would be entirely fair to say that at least some Israelis (chiefly, the ones that control the government and military, which seems important) would certainly like to commit genocide. There is plenty of evidence to make this assumption based on their past rhetoric and violent action that has taken place at their behest and/or approval.

It's dangerous to assume that it hasn't happened simply out of the goodness of Bibi & Co's collective hearts. They're "not" committing genocide (I put this in quotes because, frankly, there is still a great deal of debate around this, considering) because there is no possible way they could get away with outright genocide. I mean, other than just doing it and using the Western media apparatus to gaslight the world into believing they aren't, which certainly seems like a plausible outcome.

Now, would it be fair to say that a significant portion of the Israeli population would want to commit genocide? No, of course not, that would be insane. I don't believe they want that any more than I do.

 

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-decomposing-gaza-hospital-evacuated-rcna127533

Quote

Filmed about two weeks after the hospital was evacuated, the footage appears to show at least three of the five dead infants, with their bodies putrefying, in close proximity to catheters and ventilators.

One baby is seen decomposing while lying alone, appearing to still be connected to an oximeter with a green oxygen tank nearby, as insects appear to crawl on its chest. A bedsheet is used as a soft pillow, and an empty bottle and a medical glove box are shown closer to the bed’s edge.

Quote

Two independent forensic pathologists reviewed the raw footage. They said the advanced stages of decomposition of the dead infants is consistent with the roughly two weeks from the time the infants would have been abandoned to the date the video was shot.

Most moral army, right?

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On 12/4/2023 at 4:17 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I have only paid attention to this "new" war for a few days after October 7th. 

I was under the impression that the entire concept of the protests we are seeing in the US (and around the world?) is more of a backlash against the government and existence of the Israeli state since, well, its existence.  I find it a little odd that Gen Z (or whomever) is just now latching onto this notion, but I didn't understand it to be an attempt at equivocating Hamas and Israel.

It seems to me that a whole bunch of people decided that the way Israel came into existence wasn't fair to the Palestinians and that is the root cause of the protests.

Am I wrong?

Young people are fucking stupid, and loud. And taught by idiots like this.  

 

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21 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Young people are fucking stupid, and loud. And taught by idiots like this.  

 

Yes I'm sure that famous QAnon and Nazi-derived Great Replacement theory subscriber dipshit gigabitch Elise Stefanik is definitely asking good faith questions here, and I'm sure this video is in no way cut in such a fashion to make the responders look as bad as possible.

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Yes I'm sure that famous QAnon and Nazi-derived Great Replacement theory subscriber dipshit gigabitch Elise Stefanik is definitely asking good faith questions here, and I'm sure this video is in no way cut in such a fashion to make the responders look as bad as possible.

Yet these same people breathlessly support and will vote for a man who has promised to crush those he calls “vermin” (defined as all who oppose him). In other words, EXACTLY THE FUCKING FASCIST GENOCIDE PLAYBOOK. Fuck EVER listening to a lecture from ANY of these assholes about genocide or exterminating your enemies. It’s the fucking foundational platform of their entire belief system. Fuck that shit.
Elise Stefanie can eat fucking shit, as can anyone who ever cites her as a moral authority on ANY point.
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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

This is a dangerous, and frankly pretty naive, assumption to make. I think it would be entirely fair to say that at least some Israelis (chiefly, the ones that control the government and military, which seems important) would certainly like to commit genocide. There is plenty of evidence to make this assumption based on their past rhetoric and violent action that has taken place at their behest and/or approval.

It's dangerous to assume that it hasn't happened simply out of the goodness of Bibi & Co's collective hearts. They're "not" committing genocide (I put this in quotes because, frankly, there is still a great deal of debate around this, considering) because there is no possible way they could get away with outright genocide. I mean, other than just doing it and using the Western media apparatus to gaslight the world into believing they aren't, which certainly seems like a plausible outcome.

Now, would it be fair to say that a significant portion of the Israeli population would want to commit genocide? No, of course not, that would be insane. I don't believe they want that any more than I do.

 

You realize, that for the last dozen years, tens of thousands of lethal rockets and missiles have been fired blindly into Israeli civilian population centers, as a regular occurrence? More regular than the rain? That Israel has just assumed that it has to build and maintain an incredibly advanced air defense system, just to avoid going into Gaza and forcibly moving everyone out?

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18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Yet these same people breathlessly support and will vote for a man who has promised to crush those he calls “vermin” (defined as all who oppose him). In other words, EXACTLY THE FUCKING FASCIST GENOCIDE PLAYBOOK. Fuck EVER listening to a lecture from ANY of these assholes about genocide or exterminating your enemies. It’s the fucking foundational platform of their entire belief system. Fuck that shit.
Elise Stefanie can eat fucking shit, as can anyone who ever cites her as a moral authority on ANY point.

image.thumb.jpeg.57af532e2b6e89499b9962bb88422fdd.jpeg

 

Spoiler

The tragedy occurred just a few moments ago during a debate about politics occurring among your coworkers. Out of nowhere, the most loathsome person you’ve ever met in your whole life chimed into the argument with a completely valid and irrefutable point. Every attempt to formulate a rebuttal to just the most insufferable asshole on the planet failed miserably because, for the first time ever, that piece of shit’s logic was entirely unassailable.

This is the kind of horrific event you always assume only happens to other people, but never to you.

It’s amazing how life can change in an instant. One moment, everything’s normal, and the next you’re unable to find a single flaw in the intricate and logically sound reasoning of this fucking self-important, endlessly irritating prick. Up until now, everything that’s comes out of that guy’s mouth is pure dogshit, so now that he’s strung together an eloquent and convincing opinion, you’ve been completely blindsided.

In some ways, that’s the worst part of it: You were so used to this unbearable cretin saying nothing but garbage that you had no way to mentally prepare yourself for the day he made an amazing and insightful comment.

While this gut-wrenching calamity has passed, the shock and the sorrow it left in its wake may never truly fade. All you can do now is try to pick up the pieces, move on, and pray that this pompous moron never makes another great point ever again.

 

 

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12 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

You seem wound a little tight, @Brian Fantana, if a click hole article affirming that Elise Stefanik is a total piece of garbage who stumbled into being right about calls for genocide has you this upset. You OK out there? 

It's a bullshit question and you know it. "Did you enjoy beating your wife last night, yes or no?"

The question is meant to equate all support for Palestinians with calling for genocide of the Jews. Nobody is doing that in this context.

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It is a bullshit question. It isn’t advancing the discussion; it’s just trying to highlight that the progressives have an anti-Semitic faction, to score cheap political points. 
 
Which is not something the progressives have had a problem with for 90 years. We know that progressive Woodrow Wilson only hated African-Americans more than Jews; we know that for all the right wing talk, the main difference between Nazi philosophy and 1930s progressives is the willingness to go authoritarian (and, again…Wilson jailed socialist Eugene Debs for speaking against him). 

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There is absolutely a problem with anti-Semitism on the left, but it's not remotely similar to right-wing anti-Semitism.  Anti-Semitic leftists are unknown college students, not congressional representatives and senators and other influential political activists with actual influence and often real power.  Anti-Semitism doesn't fundamentally undergird modern progressive ideology the same way it does modern conservative ideology.  The biggest danger leftist anti-Semitism poses to Jews is its ability to push people from the left to the right, because it can help the right gain more political power. The biggest danger right anti-Semitism poses to Jews is another Holocaust.

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I don't even think it's anti-Semitism from the "leftists," its anti-Israel. Some of the youths may be too naive to really explain it in that manner or even truly think through the difference between religious Jews and the Israeli government. Show me "leftist" students doing the "Jews will Not Replace Us" chants, I doubt its out there. The rallies and "protests" I've seen usually are about waiving the Palestinian flag and are on the side of Palestinian liberation or self-governance. Show me "leftist" students with swastikas and arm bands, I've only ever seen that from the tiki torch khaki incels, i.e., right wing nuts (which constitute a majority of the party currently). 

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Just now, 'stache said:

I don't even think it's anti-Semitism from the "leftists," its anti-Israel. Some of the youths may be too naive to really explain it in that manner or even truly think through the difference between religious Jews and the Israeli government. Show me "leftist" students doing the "Jews will Not Replace Us" chants, I doubt its out there. The rallies and "protests" I've seen usually are about waiving the Palestinian flag and are on the side of Palestinian liberation or self-governance. Show me "leftist" students with swastikas and arm bands, I've only ever seen that from the tiki torch khaki incels, i.e., right wing nuts (which constitute a majority of the party currently). 

When you express your "anti-Israel" view by harassing and vandalizing Jewish delis, etc., that's being anti-Semitic.  There has been some of that, though I certainly don't think it's most of the people protesting Israel.  But conflating Jews with the State of Israel is absolutely anti-Semitic and easy for leftists to lapse into.

Of course, it doesn't fucking help when the House is passing resolutions saying anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism and so much of American culture generally pushes that idea.  I mentioned in this thread when the war started, but it's really kind of shocking how much more frank discussion there is in Israeli media right now than in American media. They're the ones that were just brutally attacked and they're the ones in the midst of a war, so one would think they'd be the ones more under the wartime fervor, and many certainly are. But there's plenty of opposition to how Israel is conducting the war and to the expansion of Jewish settlements in Israeli media, while expressing those views here has and would cost many Americans (including many Jews) their jobs.

What really sucks is that I think this climate is likely going to push many people who currently identify as leftists to the far right, because there's no accepted "legitimate" way right now to express those views. 

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24 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Fair point on the deli harassment, I chalk that up more to naïveté from dumb students than anti-Semetism. Way different ballpark from the tiki torch crowd.

Sorry, but it isn’t just deli harassment. It’s targeting of individual students, of Jewish organizations, demonstrating and targeting Jewish and not Israeli organizations.  
 

It won’t do to say “the people on my side are just confused kids, the ones on the other side are evil and really it’s my political opponents fault .” We’ve heard that from the right long enough, that these are just people who feel alienated and condescended to by the democratic elite. It’s just the classic reframing of “maybe (my erstwhile allies) are wrong but it’s not their fault. 

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11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s an easy call to say “calling for a genocide of Jews or any other people is a violation of our code of conduct for students.” 

About that:

 

She certainly could've framed her answer better, but saying anything other than some variation of "it depends" would probably not have been true.

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37 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The left contains a lot of stupidity and ignorance. It hasnt ever pushed me to become an anti-democratic fascist (republican).

We generally do a better job of marginalizing the nuts. The right is now the party of nut jobs.

Same here, but it will happen to some, because there's a lot of stupid people in this country. Many people who ended up joining the alt-right really entered their political lives as supporters of the occupy Wall Street movement, then became disillusioned when that fizzled out. Most people's politics, but especially young people's, are more incoherent and therefore more malleable than I think we really understand. There is some number of people who lean left right now who will get frustrated with what they feel are social pressures against them voicing a reasonable opinion (e.g. "it's pretty fucked up how many children Israel is killing right now and I wish they wouldn't") and end up falling for the far-right explanation for why that is (a Jewish conspiracy).

You can see a similar spiral from many older feminists (especially in the UK) who objected to growing social acceptance of trans people and have ended up organizing with "mens rights" activists and actual nazis.  

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43 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I have never hit the neg button faster.

But wait, there's more.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-17/university-of-austin-uatx-draws-donors-as-israel-backlash-hits-harvard-upenn

Ivy League Backlash Draws Money, Students to Upstart University in Texas

The University of Austin sees a surge in attention as Mideast conflict roils elite campuses

Spoiler

It seemed ambitious, verging on grandiose, when journalist Bari Weiss used her Substack newsletter in 2021 to reveal plans for a new university in Austin, Texas.

The project — to address the “gaping chasm between the promise and the reality of higher education” — was backed by prominent people in academia and finance, including the historian Niall Ferguson, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers and venture capitalist Joe Lonsdale.

But it was hard to envisage how exactly the University of Austin would get off the ground. There was no leafy campus, a glaring lack of accreditation and, of course, no network of notable alumni to entice new students. The idea of the little upstart being able to compete with Ivy League institutions to enroll the nation’s best and brightest seemed far fetched.

Two years on, UATX, as it's known, is having a moment.

Pano Kanelos, the institution’s president, said it's seeing a surge in interest from donors horrified by the response at top-tier universities to Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, including what some saw as a failure to directly condemn terrorism and attacks on Jewish students. To Weiss and other backers of UATX who had previously decried cancel culture and diversity programs they perceive as having run amok, the response represented the culmination of the far-left takeover of elite education. For them, it showed how out of touch university administrators had become and proved the need for an institution that rejected “illiberalism,” like the University of Austin.

Pano Kanelos during an UATX event at the Capital Factory in Austin, on Nov. 13.Photographer: Sergio Flores/Bloomberg

People “who have been supporting institutions with significant donations for a long time have been shaken up by the events that are happening on campus, whatever their politics are,” Kanelos, who previously led Annapolis, Maryland-based liberal arts school St. John's College, said in an interview. “So donors are looking for institutions that I think are trying to find solutions to our political conflicts and complexity.”

UATX got its license to operate in Texas last month and is preparing to enroll its first undergraduate class — hoping to bring on 100 students in the fall of 2024. The school has held more than 60 events over the past two years and has already raised nearly $200 million. This week, seeking to keep the momentum and checks flowing, supporters met at startup accelerator Capital Factory's headquarters in downtown Austin — a telling backdrop for a school that fashions itself like a Silicon Valley upstart. There was a line out the door for the happy hour, though no sign of Weiss, Ferguson or Lonsdale at the event.

Teri Andresen, who sits on the board of trustees for UATX, was there after pledging $10 million to the school in 2022 along with her husband, Headlands Technologies co-founder Matt Andresen. They had been drawn to the idea of starting a new college as they became disillusioned with higher education, particularly after Teri’s alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, allowed a transgender woman to compete on the women’s swim team. The universities’ responses to the attack in Israel has deepened their commitment.

“So whereby Penn and Harvard and Columbia, and whatever institution you can think of, made statements about certain incidents, but then didn't make an equal statement about the atrocities in Israel — that is where the problem was,” Teri Andresen said.

The gap between college students and faculty who are far to the left of many universities’ biggest donors on cultural and social issues had been apparent for several years, but took on new prominence in campus newspapers, alumni networks and social media since the attacks in Israel and its response in Gaza.

Harvard has been among the schools at the epicenter of the blowback. Current head Claudine Gay has been criticized by investor Bill Ackman and Summers, a former Harvard president who is on the board of advisers of UATX. Penn has also been rattled by calls from alumni, including Apollo Global Management Inc. head Marc Rowan, to change its leadership. At Stanford University, more than 1,400 students, faculty, parents and alumni signed an open letter criticizing the university's failure to clearly condemn Hamas.

Civil Discourse

In many ways, it seems the University of Austin was founded for these times.

Supporters say the college is needed as an alternative to the liberal atmosphere that pervades much of higher education and, they maintain, encourages mindless groupthink. UATX fashions itself as an apolitical university that values “sustained civil discourse” and “intellectual risk-taking.” While many of its backers lean conservative, others identify as liberals who feel like they’ve been left behind by far-left politics.

Weiss resigned from the New York Times in 2020, saying she was bullied by liberal colleagues. She then founded her own media company, the Free Press, which has gotten a surge of attention for its coverage in the aftermath of the attacks on Israel.

Ferguson, a Bloomberg Opinion columnist, is a prolific historian who has written 16 books and taught at Harvard, the London School of Economics and New York University. As a vocal critic of higher education institutions who he says have created a “chilling” atmosphere around freedom of speech, he met with Kanelos, Weiss and Lonsdale in Austin in May 2021, where the idea for UATX was formed.

Among the recent donors that have backed UATX’s vision of higher education is Paul Hobby, the founder of Houston-based private equity firm Genesis Park. He first heard about the school when his son, who is pursuing an MBA at the University of Texas, enrolled in UATX’s part-time fellowship program. He said he made up his mind to donate this summer and in October sent a six-figure donation to UATX — he declined to specify the exact amount — enough to make him what the university calls a “founding donor.”

“There is a moment here where we can profit from the lostness of the Ivy League institutions and the faculty that want to flee that environment,” Hobby said in an interview. “UATX can create talent and recruit talent.”

Still, it’s yet to be seen if the critiques of the Ivy League and other established universities will actually dissuade students from attending. Elite institutions have seen record undergraduate applications in recent years. And their endowments — Harvard’s is $50.7 billion and Penn’s is $21 billion, for example — provide a buttress against changes in donor sentiment.

Not Oxford Yet

UATX’s classrooms, on the third floor of the historic Scarborough building in downtown Austin, are still under construction with plans to finish in December. When students are done for the day, they’ll be able to head down to ground level to pick up dinner at Velvet Taco or a gigantic bowl of booze at Punch Bowl Social. For now, the UATX staff works out of an office about 20 minutes from downtown Austin, which Kanelos described as more “Dunder Mifflin than Oxford University.” At this week’s tours of the new campus, visitors were handed UATX branded hard hats once they reached the third floor.

While the first cohort of students will attend UATX tuition free, they will still have to pay for their housing and living expenses, Kanelos said. After the first class tuition will be around $32,500 a year. To be sure, starting a school from the ground up is no easy feat, and UATX is still figuring out the details around key parts of campus life like housing. Other small, private colleges have struggled financially across the US due to declining enrollment.

UATX is under construction with plans of opening in December.Photographer: Sergio Flores/Bloomberg

So far, the University of Austin has held seminars for more than 500 students. Its “Forbidden Courses” summer program included an appearance by venture capitalist Marc Andreessen and delved into “science and religion, race, gender politics, Anglo-American grand strategy, our moral judgments, debates within conservatism, and the state of evolutionary biology,” according to the university’s website.

Gunnar Michelsen attended this week’s event with his younger brother, a senior in high school interested in joining UATX's founding class. Michelsen, a University of Chicago graduate who participated in the Forbidden Courses program, said that enrolling in UATX is an opportunity for students to do something different.

"It's just a very non-traditional school approach," he said. “It was just awesome being there and being able to get informed perspectives from every angle.”

 

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To be clear, Hamas is an anti-Semitic group, to their core. It is their rason d’etre. They live to hate Jews, all Jews, not pausing to differentiate between Jews that are actually pro-Palestinian. Hamas is more anti-Semitic than the Nazis were; the Nazis lived to kill Jews, too, but realized they needed to kind of hide their activities. Hamas blasted their crimes out on social media in real time. 
 
Any western group that acts in congress with or in alignment with Hamas goals is going to be (at least) splashed in anti-Semitism. That’s the ocean they’re swimming in. 

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3 hours ago, Nivek said:

The left contains a lot of stupidity and ignorance. It hasnt ever pushed me to become an anti-democratic fascist (republican).

We generally do a better job of marginalizing the nuts. The right is now the party of nut jobs.

It’s almost like there’s a pattern out there of how excusing leads to tolerating leads to coddling leads to accepting leads to party capture and that loons need to be policed and excluded. Not excused.

It’s also almost like for extreme edge-lords, it’s the extremism and the anger that’s the draw and not the politics and they will go where they can get that fix. 

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

How's their football team?

Quote

Teri Andresen, who sits on the board of trustees for UATX, was there after pledging $10 million to the school in 2022 along with her husband, Headlands Technologies co-founder Matt Andresen. They had been drawn to the idea of starting a new college as they became disillusioned with higher education, particularly after Teri’s alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, allowed a transgender woman to compete on the women’s swim team. 

Hard to say, but all signs are trending towards female cheerleaders (TradCheer) setting up a fierce rivalry with their friends on the Brazos. 

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Just now, Blotto said:

Hard to say, but all signs are trending towards female cheerleaders (TradCheer) setting up a fierce rivalry with their friends on the Brazos. 

Notice the thing that super-duper upset them about Penn State, and caused them to become "disillusioned" with the university (allowing a trans woman to compete in swimming).....compared to the thing that clearly had not caused them to become "disillusioned" with the university (years upon years of child rape, covered up by senior university officials).  In case you were wondering about the moral standing of these lovely folks.

Rape kids and cover it up in order to keep winning football games?  The "disillusioned" needle doesn't even budge.

Let a trans woman swim?  "I AM DISILLUSIONED!"

The day I listen to anyone affiliated with the new fake university on the subject of "morality" and "enough is enough" is....well, it ain't gonna come before the heat death of the universe.

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Notice the thing that super-duper upset them about Penn State, and caused them to become "disillusioned" with the university (allowing a trans woman to compete in swimming).....compared to the thing that clearly had not caused them to become "disillusioned" with the university (years upon years of child rape, covered up by senior university officials).  In case you were wondering about the moral standing of these lovely folks.

Rape kids and cover it up in order to keep winning football games?  The "disillusioned" needle doesn't even budge.

Let a trans woman swim?  "I AM DISILLUSIONED!"

The day I listen to anyone affiliated with the new fake university on the subject of "morality" and "enough is enough" is....well, it ain't gonna come before the heat death of the universe.

Penn, not Penn St.

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