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Posted
2 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Great job on getting them to agree to a ceasefire after they completely obliterated the whole damn place. This is fucking stupid

And with basically no promise for any meaningful withdrawal and no mention of West Bank settlements. It's a piece of shit deal that will amount to nothing and the killing will just resume as planned.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Great job on getting them to agree to a ceasefire after they completely obliterated the whole damn place. This is fucking stupid

Case in point

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Posted

Rafah is critical to bringing in aid. But, the three checkpoints with IDF and International security will result in a lot of idle time for those trucks. 

Big question. So the Arab states are going to send in peacekeepers. Where the fuck do they live? How do they get resupplied? 

Fun times. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Rafah is critical to bringing in aid. But, the three checkpoints with IDF and International security will result in a lot of idle time for those trucks. 

Big question. So the Arab states are going to send in peacekeepers. Where the fuck do they live? How do they get resupplied? 

Fun times. 

I'm sure Donny will be right on that one.

Posted
41 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Rafah is critical to bringing in aid. But, the three checkpoints with IDF and International security will result in a lot of idle time for those trucks. 

Big question. So the Arab states are going to send in peacekeepers. Where the fuck do they live? How do they get resupplied? 

Fun times. 

No more bullets guys but fuck your food and shelter still 

Posted

One of the reasons Japan and West Germany (and the rest of occupied Western Europe) became staunch allies after WWII - and stepped back from their generational resentments - was that the USA poured billions of dollars over quite a few years into rebuilding them and reintegrating their economies into the Western economic structure. Has anyone heard of any honest plans for that in Gaza, Trump Gaza Beach Resorts aside? Because if it doesn't happen, ain't nothing ever gonna change there. "Hey, we're not shooting at you any longer, enjoy the rubble!" It needs to be the West as well to build any sort of trust; middle eastern petrodollars are fine but if we want them to think there might be a better future, there needs to be hope that they can join that better future. 

(and oh yeah, the West Bank is still a thing)

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Posted

If you're whole country looks like Hiroshima, I don't a Marshall Plan rebuild will do the job. Just moving the rubble would eat up that kind of budget. 

At best, Gaza will be made barely livable as late as possible to encourage Gazans to leave.

I think I saw that humanitarian organizations are striving to get 400 trucks of supplies into Gaza. 400 hundred trucks. That's how hard Israel is waging this obliteration. Four hundred trucks will touch hardly any of the starving, diseased, dying populace. 

If Israel were 100% unified behind this campaign, I'd find it hard to object to bombing them into a similar state as Gaza to make an example of the wages of tyranny. But, you know, we're not those guys anymore. We blow up civilian boats on the sea. 

Hey! We're a pirate nation! 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

If you're whole country looks like Hiroshima, I don't a Marshall Plan rebuild will do the job. Just moving the rubble would eat up that kind of budget. 

At best, Gaza will be made barely livable as late as possible to encourage Gazans to leave.

I think I saw that humanitarian organizations are striving to get 400 trucks of supplies into Gaza. 400 hundred trucks. That's how hard Israel is waging this obliteration. Four hundred trucks will touch hardly any of the starving, diseased, dying populace. 

If Israel were 100% unified behind this campaign, I'd find it hard to object to bombing them into a similar state as Gaza to make an example of the wages of tyranny. But, you know, we're not those guys anymore. We blow up civilian boats on the sea. 

Hey! We're a pirate nation! 

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The dilemma in the future as I see it is now, a) you have a generation of Palestinians in the future full of resentment and nothing to lose willing to die where life is cheap and b) Palestinians should also understand what a consequence from Isreal looks like for any repeat of anything that even remotely resembles a 10/7. 

Both those ideas live in tension to themselves. That seems to be a pretty big problem for the region.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

The dilemma in the future as I see it is now, a) you have a generation of Palestinians in the future full of resentment and nothing to lose willing to die where life is cheap and b) Palestinians should also understand what a consequence from Isreal looks like for any repeat of anything that even remotely resembles a 10/7. 

Both those ideas live in tension to themselves. That seems to be a pretty big problem for the region.

You have to flood the zone and overwhelm them with multi-generational opportunity that the lives of their children or their peers in the future can be better. It's certainly an uphill battle. There are no or few posters on this board that would suffer their children and families beings wiped from the earth without their hearts hardening. Maybe that's projection, but you wipe my family from this earth, you destroy my place of worship...man you just ain't winning me back. Ever. I am not a big enough human and my faith is not strong enough at this point for that shit. I am going to have a hardened heart until I die. That is the battle. Against the basic human nature. Something has to change. Start with the reality on the ground and self-determination, basics like water and land rights. Go from there. An uphill battle, they will likely never get to the top. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Posted
44 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You have to flood the zone and overwhelm them with multi-generational opportunity that the lives of their children or their peers in the future can be better. It's certainly an uphill battle. There are no or few posters on this board that would suffer their children and families beings wiped from the earth without their hearts hardening. Maybe that's projection, but you wipe my family from this earth, you destroy my place of worship...man you just ain't winning me back. Ever. I am not a big enough human and my faith is not strong enough at this point for that shit. I am going to have a hardened heart until I die. That is the battle. Against the basic human nature. Something has to change. Start with the reality on the ground and self-determination, basics like water and land rights. Go from there. An uphill battle, they will likely never get to the top. 

Makes sense and I agree. Not sure that Israel will be interested in that. Maybe they hold their nose and do it, not for the benefit of Gaza and Palestinians, but for their own benefit. If you are a hardline Israeli, what you are essentially saying that Israel didn't take the axe to the roots and that the weeds will grow back (in their view).

There was a point in man's history when we made the moral and ethical leap from whole people groups wiping out other people groups and they would be no more to genocide being an atrocity and an evil. I wonder if that was when it became something that others in the world had to bear witness to. Ironically maybe that was when another group was trying to eliminate the hebrew people, and yet here we are....

Posted
1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

You have to flood the zone and overwhelm them with multi-generational opportunity that the lives of their children or their peers in the future can be better. It's certainly an uphill battle. There are no or few posters on this board that would suffer their children and families beings wiped from the earth without their hearts hardening. Maybe that's projection, but you wipe my family from this earth, you destroy my place of worship...man you just ain't winning me back. Ever. I am not a big enough human and my faith is not strong enough at this point for that shit. I am going to have a hardened heart until I die. That is the battle. Against the basic human nature. Something has to change. Start with the reality on the ground and self-determination, basics like water and land rights. Go from there. An uphill battle, they will likely never get to the top. 

Yes. The idea that the brutality of Israel will make their victims tame is the same idea that leads us into long bloody struggles in someone else's country. The flaw in that is not recognizing what you do: people will react the same way I would. Kill my friends and family? You've made an enemy who is as brave, violent, and determined as you are.

I don't see Gaza ever coming back. Pretty soon after the bloodbath/depredation/starvation campaign is over, the irony of a Jewish State doing this to another people will be razor keen.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Not sure that Israel will be interested in that.

They are not. That is intertwined with both Talmudism and Zionism. And to be frank, I do not see a path for that kind of reconciliation through Islamist shit either. Unfortunately, at least from my perspective, both have wiped out most remnants of the worldview and theology capable of bringing reconciliation to the middle east.

Edited by Anastasis
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Posted
They are not. That is intertwined with both Talmudism and Zionism. And to be frank, I do not see a path for that kind of reconciliation through Islamist shit either. Unfortunately, at least from my perspective, both have wiped out most remnants of the worldview and theology capable of bringing reconciliation to the middle east.

This. Anyone who purports to be in favor of long-term peace in the region should brave themselves for that reality. The number of people capable of working for a peaceful coexistence has gone way down. The number of people whose hearts are hardened to a near-genocidal level of hatred has skyrocketed.
The future in the region is likely very, very dark.
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

They are not. That is intertwined with both Talmudism and Zionism. And to be frank, I do not see a path for that kind of reconciliation through Islamist shit either. Unfortunately, at least from my perspective, both have wiped out most remnants of the worldview and theology capable of bringing reconciliation to the middle east.

Agree with you on that. And interestingingly, I had sort of pegged you as muslim or muslim adjacent (second/third generation maybe) based on your posts tbh.

Posted
Just now, Vegas64 said:

Agree with you on that. And interestingingly, I had sort of pegged you as muslim or muslim adjacent (second/third generation maybe) based on your posts tbh.

You are dumb. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


This. Anyone who purports to be in favor of long-term peace in the region should brave themselves for that reality. The number of people capable of working for a peaceful coexistence has gone way down. The number of people whose hearts are hardened to a near-genocidal level of hatred has skyrocketed.
The future in the region is likely very, very dark.

Quite dated at this point, but this use to be a common book rec from me. 

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Brothers-Dramatic-Palestinian-Christian/dp/0800793218

Palestinian Christian author. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The future in the region is likely very, very dark.

It's always been dark. Which is good enough reason to not pump billions of dollars of arms by the C130 into the region. But see, Jesus apparently needs a well lit runway in J town. And Western Europe has always been certainly inclined to let others shoulder the penitence for their genocidal sins. 

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