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Posted
6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Many years ago, I donated a Nazi flag that was signed by my father and the other men of his 9th Armored CCB tank platoon that helped take the Remagen Bridge.  

it was difficult to let that part of my family history go, but having a Nazi flag hung up somewhere in my home didn’t seem to be a good idea, and even if it is sitting in a drawer at the museum and nobody sees it for decades - it is being preserved and cared for by curators for future generations - so I think it was the right move.

Totally the right move.  Though I was talking about this with a curator.  He said as the greatest generation passes, they're acquiring a ton of this stuff - more than they need to tell the story.  He says they don't need anymore Lugers.  They've got that covered.  

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Posted

New favorite WWII podcast I found:  "We have ways of making you talk" with Al Murray and James Holland

Just finished up there 'Top tanks of WWII' episode with Steve Zaloga.

  • Sherman
  • T34
  • Panzer Four

They also illustrated that outside of the Battle of Kurtz, VERY few tanks destroyed other tanks.  Or how many American crews didn't prefer the 76 over the older 75mm gun.  To accommodate the higher velocity gun the turret was much more cramped, they tank held fewer shells, and most importantly the venerable 75 was much, much easier/faster to reload.

One story the men spoke about was American training and how early on after the invasion how a single Sherman took out a German Tiger in a standoff fight.  Both tanks came around a corner and faced one another.  The better trained American tank commander had a round in the pipe, and immediately fired and hit the Tiger turret, sending the German commander diving inside.  It of course didn't penetrate, but send shards of metal flying around inside, injuring the driver.  The American gunners were so fast they got off ten rounds into the Tiger....who never got off a single shot.  They scrambled out, were captured, which effectively knocked the Tiger out of action.  

I think this group will love the listen.  

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 He says they don't need anymore Lugers.  They've got that covered.  

IMG_2647.gif.62af5602a016da90a51d160e5ac79409.gif

I volunteer to take those worthless items…

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

IMG_2647.gif.62af5602a016da90a51d160e5ac79409.gif

I volunteer to take those worthless items…

That was exactly my response.  Taking guns puts them in an awkward position if they aren't going to display them.  It's a lot of trouble to deaccession them, apparently.  They don't want to be a gun dealer.  But he was saying they get all these Lugers, Walthers, MP-40s, etc.  He says they just can't process and store them all, but people like you are trying to do the right thing and they want to encourage that.  People show up and none of them want granddads Nazi machine gun from the attic.  But maybe they don't want them to wind up in unappreciative, or worse, criminal, hands so they go to the museum.  Not the same rules as say, your Dad's Nazi flag, to deal with them.  It was an interesting conundrum.  

Posted
2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

People show up and none of them want granddads Nazi machine gun from the attic.

Uhhhhh.....who are these people.  I need to have a long talk with them

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

That was exactly my response.  Taking guns puts them in an awkward position if they aren't going to display them.  It's a lot of trouble to deaccession them, apparently.  They don't want to be a gun dealer.  But he was saying they get all these Lugers, Walthers, MP-40s, etc.  He says they just can't process and store them all, but people like you are trying to do the right thing and they want to encourage that.  People show up and none of them want granddads Nazi machine gun from the attic.  But maybe they don't want them to wind up in unappreciative, or worse, criminal, hands so they go to the museum.  Not the same rules as say, your Dad's Nazi flag, to deal with them.  It was an interesting conundrum.  

There's a gun museum in Oklahoma, J.M. Davis Museum, has a massive collection, but even they auction off excess stuff to raise funds and clear their storage.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Uhhhhh.....who are these people.  I need to have a long talk with them

I mean, the people who want them, keep them, right?

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Posted
19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

New favorite WWII podcast I found:  "We have ways of making you talk" with Al Murray and James Holland

Just finished up there 'Top tanks of WWII' episode with Steve Zaloga.

  • Sherman
  • T34
  • Panzer Four

They also illustrated that outside of the Battle of Kurtz, VERY few tanks destroyed other tanks.  Or how many American crews didn't prefer the 76 over the older 75mm gun.  To accommodate the higher velocity gun the turret was much more cramped, they tank held fewer shells, and most importantly the venerable 75 was much, much easier/faster to reload.

One story the men spoke about was American training and how early on after the invasion how a single Sherman took out a German Tiger in a standoff fight.  Both tanks came around a corner and faced one another.  The better trained American tank commander had a round in the pipe, and immediately fired and hit the Tiger turret, sending the German commander diving inside.  It of course didn't penetrate, but send shards of metal flying around inside, injuring the driver.  The American gunners were so fast they got off ten rounds into the Tiger....who never got off a single shot.  They scrambled out, were captured, which effectively knocked the Tiger out of action.  

I think this group will love the listen.  

Zaloga is the man. I will definitely listen to that.   The 75 high explosive shell was superior to the 76 shell, which is why many armored divisions did not want to switch to the 76 rounds. Like you say, the primary role of a tank was infantry support, and they were not designed to engage German tanks.   The advantage of the 76 caliber was supposed to be the superior armor piercing capability.   What annoys me about people dumping on the Sherman being a bad tank is that there was an armor piercing round that could pierce a panther mantlet 9 or 10 football fields away - but the powers that be wanted to hoard titanium for use in aircraft - and so it was only until late in the war that tanks got one round each.  

Which is all to say that the tank’s cannon was not as bad as it’s reputation (if they had only allowed it to use the damn ammunition that would work best).   And even with the bad ammunition Shermans and tank destroyers put the hurt on German armor at Arracourt.  Sherman speed and its faster turret traverse were assets.  And tanks who are attacking always suffer losses to tanks who know the other guys are coming, and have the range established and are in a hidden position able to fire first. 

 

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Posted

From a German officer's diary found at Anzio...

“American paratroopers – devils in baggy pants – are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can’t sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere…”

Next stop, Normandy.

 

 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Zaloga is the man. I will definitely listen to that.   The 75 high explosive shell was superior to the 76 shell, which is why many armored divisions did not want to switch to the 76 rounds. Like you say, the primary role of a tank was infantry support, and they were not designed to engage German tanks.   The advantage of the 76 caliber was supposed to be the superior armor piercing capability.   What annoys me about people dumping on the Sherman being a bad tank is that there was an armor piercing round that could pierce a panther mantlet 9 or 10 football fields away - but the powers that be wanted to hoard titanium for use in aircraft - and so it was only until late in the war that tanks got one round each.  

Which is all to say that the tank’s cannon was not as bad as it’s reputation (if they had only allowed it to use the damn ammunition that would work best).   And even with the bad ammunition Shermans and tank destroyers put the hurt on German armor at Arracourt.  Sherman speed and its faster turret traverse were assets.  And tanks who are attacking always suffer losses to tanks who know the other guys are coming, and have the range established and are in a hidden position able to fire first. 

 

All this.  It was also like the T34 in that it was easy to mass produce and extremely reliable.  German tanks were so ridiculously overly-engineered that they were hard to mass produce, hard to maintain, and hard to keep in the field.  The later models were too big, too heavy, and ridiculously hard to move on rail to the front lines.  

Another little factoid from the podcast.  All Germans were raised to the right-handed.  There were no lefties.  Yet all German tank turrets positioned the loader on the right side of the main gun....meaning they had to use their left arm much more than the right.  Making them invariably slower to fire/load.  To this day, there is no reason given for such an obvious design flaw.

Posted
1 minute ago, BillyGoatHill said:

From a German officer's diary found at Anzio...

“American paratroopers – devils in baggy pants – are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can’t sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere…”

Next stop, Normandy.

 

 

Ironically, the scattered paratroopers that messed their landing zones caused such confusion with the defending Germans that they estimated the numbers to be many multiple larger than what they actually were....causing delays in responding and confusion with leadership.

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

What annoys me about people dumping on the Sherman

Yeah, the Sherman had its problems, and I've dumped on it before, but overall, it did exactly what it was supposed to do, just like a lot of other great American hardware in the war.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, the Sherman had its problems, and I've dumped on it before, but overall, it did exactly what it was supposed to do, just like a lot of other great American hardware in the war.

 

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

All this.  It was also like the T34 in that it was easy to mass produce and extremely reliable

Yup. My dad‘s M43A (76W) was made in Detroit, and it (and its Ford engine) drove from France through Belgium and across Germany, only to be driven into Czechoslovakia when the war ended.   They were extremely reliable and easy to fix and get back into action.

And more importantly, they would fit on rail cars and be able to cross every bridge and tunnel from the Midwest to the East Coast until they could be loaded on ships and dropped in Europe.   

We built almost 50,000 Sherman tanks by 1946.   We had thousands of replacements just sitting around, waiting to be pushed to the front lines to replace any put out of action by German armor or panzerfausts..

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

 

Yup. My dad‘s M43A (76W) was made in Detroit, and it (and its Ford engine) drove from France through Belgium and across Germany, only to be driven into Czechoslovakia when the war ended.   They were extremely reliable and easy to fix and get back into action.

And more importantly, they would fit on rail cars and be able to cross every bridge and tunnel from the Midwest to the East Coast until they could be loaded on ships and dropped in Europe.   

We built almost 50,000 Sherman tanks by 1946.   We had thousands of replacements just sitting around, waiting to be pushed to the front lines to replace any put out of action by German armor or panzerfausts..

Which one is your dad?

image.jpeg.ec2e2126254f54af9c22fe244d5b1d30.jpeg

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

The below picture reflects part of my collection.  Many of the uniforms displayed are of soldiers that participated in D-Day.

Regarding museums.  As many of you noted some of you have, or know someone that has, donated something to a museum.  Unless it is some unique item it will most likely end up in a box in the archives never seeing the light of day.  Though I have no direct experience with the situation I have been told that some of these items will be sold off by the museum to raise funds. Initially, my thoughts were to eventually donate my collection to a museum but have since changed my mind and will liquidate it myself so that I, or my kids/grandkids can enjoy the money instead.  And, in case something happens to me prior to liquidation, I have a spreadsheet with descriptions and an estimated value of my items so that the stuff won't just be thrown in a dumpster.

Though I do not have the foot traffic that museums have I do have people that come over to view my collection.  I have an electronic file of each uniform and a history of each soldier that is represented by a uniform.  If you notice in the photos there is a white strip on the shoulder.  That is basic information regarding the soldier of the uniform displayed.

image.thumb.jpeg.3efa5b2eb7b04f2b4879f877c78edb7d.jpeg

that is so freaking awesome. I appreciate you sharing that photo of the ninth armored uniform previously 

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Posted
1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Which one is your dad?

image.jpeg.ec2e2126254f54af9c22fe244d5b1d30.jpeg

 

Well, as tank Commander, he would be Oddball. Upper left hatch. 

IMG_3414.jpeg.9900a9afec19e6c046170a04f2357223.jpeg

I have not been able to find a picture where they had a standard 50 Cal mounted in the back, and I never asked dad about that when he was alive.  But then, my dad was shot twice in separate incidents trying to close the hatch under fire (basically flesh wounds that he did not think serious enough to leave his crew), so maybe he just didn’t wanna sit outside the tank and take rounds.

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Posted
59 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm not saying it should be a federal holiday or anything - but I'm always surprised that D-Day isn't marked on the calendar. It's a much bigger deal than (e.g.) Cinco de Mayo or Flag Day and is always worth some time to stop and reflect or learn more about what happened once a year. 

One of the most important things that ever happened fought by some of the bravest young men in human history. 

All of this, and it was still the SECOND largest amphibious landing of the war, behind Okinawa and in front of Iwo.  The size and scope of these operations is staggering to think about, especially at that time in history.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

And more importantly, they would fit on rail cars and be able to cross every bridge and tunnel from the Midwest to the East Coast until they could be loaded on ships and dropped in Europe.

Key point here.  German Tigers and later King Tigers were so damn large, they have to have specially designed rail car just to move them.  They only made around a thousand or so, and most saw action on the Eastern Front.  BUT, it's the iconic German tank, so every damn movie made has to have one in it.  I read that the one in Fury is among a handful left that are actually operational, so they had to baby that old girl something special in the movie.  

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Posted
15 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Key point here.  German Tigers and later King Tigers were so damn large, they have to have specially designed rail car just to move them.  They only made around a thousand or so, and most saw action on the Eastern Front.  BUT, it's the iconic German tank, so every damn movie made has to have one in it.  I read that the one in Fury is among a handful left that are actually operational, so they had to baby that old girl something special in the movie.  

I hear the fuel systems are kaput.

ELMC Blog

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Posted
3 hours ago, Parliament said:

The Greatest Generation did their greatest thing.

Then they came home and had the Boomers.   Definitely some cosmic forces at play.  

Posted
25 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Then they came home and had the Boomers.   Definitely some cosmic forces at play.  

Hard times make hard mem, hard men make easy times, easy times make weak men......rinse, wash, repeat.  

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Posted (edited)

A very moving moment in Saving Private Ryan is when the mom receives the news that she lost a son in the War.  That scene played out thousands of times during the War.  Though not directly related to D-Day, the below images are a series of announcements in my collection of a soldier that was first MIA and then later declared KIA.  All of the correspondence is directed to his mother.  I also have a series of another soldier that was KIA that are addressed to his wife.  Notice the dates of the information.  No doubt that the mother lived in hope and anguish for a long time.

  • The first image is a Western Union Telegram from Oct 31, 1944 declaring that her son has been MIA for 2 weeks
  • The second image is a WU telegram from Nov 7, 1944 stating that he is KIA
  • The third image is an official announcement from Nov 3, 1944 declaring him as MIA
  • The fourth is an official announcement from Nov 13, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The fifth is an official announcement from Nov 15, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The sixth image is an announcement citing the cause of death.

The other documents that I have (not shown) of a soldiers death spans a greater time period.  The first WU Telegram stating him being MIA was dated March 12, 1944 with the next WU Telegram advising him being MIA was dated Aug 6, 1944.  The wife went 5 months not knowing the status of her husband.

Personally, I find it amazing that family members get rid of items like this to only be purchased at a flea market.  I do what I can with my collection to keep these brave men and women remain "known".

The bracelet is made from a Combat Infantry Badge with the links naming the battles that the soldier was in.

image.thumb.jpeg.bdb555964a1bc92d667306c09abcc3f2.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e05ac00cdcb59651aa0237869b5431c7.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.4948a03a163970a4ded51796f0f120af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c16f8672367593d207dadb48859041af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e1be317636730277cfeaee9d711218a4.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c7ddafcc59a750822703aef7c8f88bee.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.9cecc9d659fc414d022fd45dfe627632.jpeg

Edited by mininghorn88
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Posted
8 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

A very moving moment in Saving Private Ryan is when the mom receives the news that she lost a son in the War.  That scene played out thousands of times during the War.  Though not directly related to D-Day, the below images are a series of announcements in my collection of a soldier that was first MIA and then later declared KIA.  All of the correspondence is directed to his mother.  I also have a series of another soldier that was KIA that are addressed to his wife.  Notice the dates of the information.  No doubt that the mother lived in hope and anguish for a long time.

  • The first image is a Western Union Telegram from Oct 31, 1944 declaring that her son has been MIA for 2 weeks
  • The second image is a WU telegram from Nov 7, 1944 stating that he is KIA
  • The third image is an official announcement from Nov 3, 1944 declaring him as MIA
  • The fourth is an official announcement from Nov 13, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The fifth is an official announcement from Nov 15, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The sixth image is an announcement citing the cause of death.

The other documents that I have (not shown) of a soldiers death spans a greater time period.  The first WU Telegram stating him being MIA was dated March 12, 1944 with the next WU Telegram advising him being MIA was dated Aug 6, 1944.  The wife went 5 months not knowing the status of her husband.

Personally, I find it amazing that family members get rid of items like this to only be purchased at a flea market.  I do what I can with my collection to keep these brave men and women remain "known".

The bracelet is made from a Combat Infantry Badge with the links naming the battles that the soldier was in.

image.thumb.jpeg.bdb555964a1bc92d667306c09abcc3f2.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e05ac00cdcb59651aa0237869b5431c7.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.4948a03a163970a4ded51796f0f120af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c16f8672367593d207dadb48859041af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e1be317636730277cfeaee9d711218a4.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c7ddafcc59a750822703aef7c8f88bee.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.9cecc9d659fc414d022fd45dfe627632.jpeg

Sobering.

Posted
11 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

A very moving moment in Saving Private Ryan is when the mom receives the news that she lost a son in the War.  That scene played out thousands of times during the War.  Though not directly related to D-Day, the below images are a series of announcements in my collection of a soldier that was first MIA and then later declared KIA.  All of the correspondence is directed to his mother.  I also have a series of another soldier that was KIA that are addressed to his wife.  Notice the dates of the information.  No doubt that the mother lived in hope and anguish for a long time.

  • The first image is a Western Union Telegram from Oct 31, 1944 declaring that her son has been MIA for 2 weeks
  • The second image is a WU telegram from Nov 7, 1944 stating that he is KIA
  • The third image is an official announcement from Nov 3, 1944 declaring him as MIA
  • The fourth is an official announcement from Nov 13, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The fifth is an official announcement from Nov 15, 1944 declaring him KIA
  • The sixth image is an announcement citing the cause of death.

The other documents that I have (not shown) of a soldiers death spans a greater time period.  The first WU Telegram stating him being MIA was dated March 12, 1944 with the next WU Telegram advising him being MIA was dated Aug 6, 1944.  The wife went 5 months not knowing the status of her husband.

Personally, I find it amazing that family members get rid of items like this to only be purchased at a flea market.  I do what I can with my collection to keep these brave men and women remain "known".

The bracelet is made from a Combat Infantry Badge with the links naming the battles that the soldier was in.

image.thumb.jpeg.bdb555964a1bc92d667306c09abcc3f2.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e05ac00cdcb59651aa0237869b5431c7.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.4948a03a163970a4ded51796f0f120af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c16f8672367593d207dadb48859041af.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.e1be317636730277cfeaee9d711218a4.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.c7ddafcc59a750822703aef7c8f88bee.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.9cecc9d659fc414d022fd45dfe627632.jpeg

Damn that last one was maybe a bit much to read at work. Especially that last paragraph. 

Imagine how many letters those guys had to send. Wonder how personalized they were and how much was boilerplate.

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Posted
On 6/5/2019 at 7:15 AM, tx 3 putt said:

My grandmother’s brother stormed the beaches as a 17 yo, 75 years ago. Enlisted as a 16 yo. He was injured on D Day + 6 and his war was over. He went on to live a wonderful life in San Antonio. 

 

RiP uncle larry 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Chopper said:

The display of nazi paraphernalia and the numerals in your username cause me to ask you what's up with that, @mininghorn88?

Debating on responding but it is pretty simple:

The footlocker is recreation of what a soldier would have and the flag is a “trophy of war”. You always see period photos of soldiers displaying their loot.

As TwiceHorn knows 88 is the year of my UT graduation.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

Debating on responding but it is pretty simple:

The footlocker is recreation of what a soldier would have and the flag is a “trophy of war”. You always see period photos of soldiers displaying their loot.

Thanks for the response. I'm aware it's common to display loot but it's not everyday I see an "88" posted alongside a nazi flag on this site. On a roadtrip through the deep South, sure. 

Posted
31 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

Debating on responding but it is pretty simple:

The footlocker is recreation of what a soldier would have and the flag is a “trophy of war”. You always see period photos of soldiers displaying their loot.

As TwiceHorn knows 88 is the year of my UT graduation.

Class response to a really fucking stupid question. You’re better than me. 

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Posted

saw this elsewhere today:

81 years ago today on June 6, 1944, James M. Doohan of Vancouver(and later Sarnia) was shot 6 times on Juno beach while fighting for Canada on D-Day. He would later go on to become Scotty on Star Trek. 


 

IMG_5724.jpeg

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